Deputy in videotaped Chino shooting changed story, report says

[951-Riverside]

SAN BERNARDINO, Calif. - A sheriff's deputy who was videotaped shooting an unarmed man following a high-speed chase changed his version of events after viewing the footage of the incident, according to a confidential sheriff's report.

San Bernardino Sheriff's Deputy Ivory John Webb Jr. has pleaded not guilty to attempted voluntary manslaughter charges in the Jan. 29 shooting of Air Force policeman Elio Carrion, 21, who was a passenger in the car Webb was pursuing and is recovering from his wounds.

Minutes after the shooting, Webb, 45, told a sheriff's sergeant and a Chino police officer that he opened fire because Carrion had tried to charge at him, according to the nearly 400-page confidential report.

When he finally agreed to be questioned four days later, Webb had seen the videotape that aired repeatedly on television and claimed he used deadly force because he believed Carrion was reaching for a gun, the report says.

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/states/california/northern_california/14102914.htm

LA Times Report: http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/california/la-me-shooting15mar15,1,1344405,full.story?coll=la-headlines-pe-california&ctrack=1&cset=true

[Mithras61]

1. I believe he used "force" because...

he was too agitated by the chase, and felt like he was on his own, and felt like he was dealing with a dangerous suspect possibly involved in smuggling drugs or possibly involved in terrorist related activities. Or maybe (like so many police officers I've talked too) he felt like it was us against them, where "us" is the police forces and "them" is everybody else.

I don't intend to make excuses for him, but the fact is that many police officers feel like every stop they make is putting their life on the line, and there is much that could be done (and isn't) that would help reduce the stress of their job.

The thing is, crime rates are going up, and will continue to go up until the economy gets better. So long as crime rates are up, police officers will have a great deal more stress in their lives as well.

Is what he did wrong? It's not for me to say, but the video certainly makes it seem so. At this point, he's changing his story about why he shot the victim, which makes it seem more likely that he acted without thinking about what he was doing. Unfortunately, we simply cannot have police officers that allow their emotions to cloud their thinking to this extent.

[951-Riverside]

2. Perhaps I should become a cop

I notice the job comes with near Vice Presidential perks! :D

[Mithras61]

3. Perhaps...

but I don't think attempted manslaughter is going to do him any good on his resume...

:D

[Kingshakabobo]

4. Unlike you, I'm not a mind reader and can't tell what he "felt".

I'll rely on the video, where he tells the guy to get up and then shoots him when he does. I'll rely on the evidence that he lied about being charged by the suspect.

He can save his feelings for the sentencing hearing (after he gets a fair trial of course)where he can cry like a little baby.....like most thugs do.

[Mithras61]

5. A few thoughts for you...

1) I never said I could read minds, so save that shit for someone you know. I said "I believe..." which is entirely reasonable with the available evidence.

2) I clearly said that while it isn't for me to judge (I'm not on the jury), I thought what he had done was wrong. Why isn't that enough for you?

3) I sincerely hope you never have to deal with anyone from the same perspective that most police officers do. It's obvious that you have no grasp of the realities of their situation, and no sympathy for it either. They are frequently in a siege mentality because of people who view them as the enemy, when in fact the majority of them serve and protect because of a feeling of duty to their community. It's actually something people feel still (as surprising as that may be to some). It's the reason some of us volunteer to be in the military at a time when the majority of people in this country can't see beyond My Lai, and the reason some families have been police for generations. I'm not condoning what he did, but I am willing to believe it wasn't premeditated and that there may be more than one explanation for his actions. I also called him on the change in his story, but the facts tend to point out that he was not thinking at the time, but rather reacting, which indicates a state of mind that is less than rational. Perhaps there are other explanations for him shooting the victim than intentional infliction of harm...

[Kingshakabobo]

14. Congratulations!! Another mind-reading post.

>>>It's obvious that you have no grasp of the realities of their situation<<<

You and I watched an attempted execution.

[Mithras61]

18. Yawn!

Welcome to my ignore list...

[High Plains]

15. Yeah, maybe he thought he was sending the guy to heaven.

[Kingshakabobo]

16. Give him a break! He needed a hug. n/t

[951-Riverside]

17. Re: but the facts tend to point out that he was not thinking at the time,

He obviously wasnt thinking when he wrote in the report that the victim charged & attacked him after he told him not to get up. :sarcasm:

[Mithras61]

20. Oh, goody...

let's execute the officer, too. That'll make things all alright. Perhaps we should cut off his fingers, or maybe just pull out his finger nails, too?:sarcasm:

He made a mistake. A big one, admittedly, but he's being charged for it. I've already said what he did was wrong, and that I don't think he should be a police officer, and several other things besides. I also said that it isn't a good idea to allow yourself to be placed into a dangerous situation with police involved, and that the situation appeared to be confrontational to the officer. I also said that perhaps if you were in a similar situaltion, you too would react a little differently than you do in the light of day when there is no stress on you.


Damn, perhaps, we ALL need to go as a gang and just string him up right now!

[truebrit71]

23. How did he "make a mistake?"

He order the guy (at gunpoint) to stand up. The guy started to stand up. The cop shot him. How is that a "mistake"? The only "mistake" in this instance was that it was caught on tape and the cop got caught in a lie.

Cops in this country are under tremendous stress, and many, many, many of them deserve our thanks and appreciation, and we SHOULD defend those that deserve it. This guy however, shot a guy who was following his specific orders AND THEN LIED ABOUT IT TO COVER IT UP. He doesn't qualify.

[Wise Doubter]

32. AND THEN LIED ABOUT IT TO COVER IT UP.

Maybe he is a Republican ...:puke:

[malaise]

24. Mistake?

That's what you call it. He nearly murdered an innocent man.

[951-Riverside]

25. Be reasonable not disruptive

Lets keep it to a discussion w/no personal attacks I would really hate to have my thread shut down because of personal attacks.

let's execute the officer, too. That'll make things all alright. Perhaps we should cut off his fingers, or maybe just pull out his finger nails, too?

Don't exagerate or try to start a flame war in my thread

He made a mistake. A big one, admittedly, but he's being charged for it.

Thats where we disagree I believe it was attempted murder possibly racially motivated, he may have had a thing against hispanics and I agree its great he's being charged although I think the charge should have been greater.

I've already said what he did was wrong, and that I don't think he should be a police officer, and several other things .

Glad we can agree on a few things :D

I also said that it isn't a good idea to allow yourself to be placed into a dangerous situation with police involved, and that the situation appeared to be confrontational to the officer.

Obviously the driver was a complete idiot like the officer but the victim had nothing to do with this. They were following orders, Deputy Thugg told him to get up & when he complied Deputy Thugg shot him then told him to "SHUT THE FUCK UP" about 4 times while he was crying in pain and later said the victim charged and attacked him.

You continue to ask people here to themselves in his position personally I can't because he was abusing his power he was not behaving like a police officer he was not following training and he tried to provoke a confrontation, when that failed he gave and order an shot the guy for following it, I CAN'T PUT MYSELF IN HIS POSITION BECAUSE IM NOT A LOW LIFE THUG.

[Kingshakabobo]

22. Also, he STILL maintains he thought the victim had a gun....

Even though the video CLEARLY shows him telling the victim to get up. Not the actions of someone making a "mistake."

[truebrit71]

21. Your third point is baloney...

.." but the facts tend to point out that he was not thinking at the time, but rather reacting,"

I must be dense but to what was he reacting? The perp following his explicit instructions? Where's the confusion? He told the guy to get up. The guy got up. The cop shot him. When asked about it the cop lied. Next?

[saigon68]

6. He'll cry like BIG DUKE CUNNINGHAM

The Candy Assed Criminal Wannabe Hero

Like the little baby he is

[Kingshakabobo]

11. Exactly!! n/t

[951-Riverside]

13. He's a bad guy this is not the type of cop you want to side with

He used abusive language to force a negative reaction, he gave commands to get up numerous times than later he denied he did and had the nerve to claim the poor guy charged him.

Again this is not the type of cop you want to defend.

Edit: I'm not saying that you are defending or siding with him

[saigon68]

27. If you know me

You know I have little respect for types like the cop

I think they are PIGS

(sorry to those pigs out there)

I sometimes forget you are fine farm animals.

[951-Riverside]

30. Sorry if it seemed like I was directing my comments towards you

I was actually addressing someone else.

[saigon68]

31. That's OK no apology necessary

Don't cha love this place :-) :-)

[jahyarain]

8. goddammit

so the next time a cop pulls me over should i go ahead and shoot them out of self-defense since they may be "stressed"?

[Mithras61]

9. Not what I said...

The victim was in a vehicle that was involved in a high-speed chase through a residential neighborhood. The cop had reason to be pretty tense. What he did isn't excuseable (and I didn't say it was), but it's quite possible that the situatino in which he found himself was more than a little bit of a contributing factor.

Maybe the next time you go driving/riding at over 100mph through a suburban neighborhood, you SHOULD be concerned about how the cop will react towards you...

[sendero]

10. Maybe if you are the kind of person..

... that cracks under that kind of stress, you should not be on the police force.

Frankly, if there wasn't a video I GUARANTEE YOU that this would have been turned around, the "perp" would have been charged with attempted murder of a policeman and there wouldn't be a shred of justice in sight.

As it is, the cop will probably pretty much get away with it, he'll lose his job - the other guy could have easily lost his life.

[Mithras61]

12. I said that he shouldn't be an officer too...

If YOU were in a similar situation with similar levels of stress and reacted as the officer did, you'd be facing similar charges.

I didn't say he should walk. I DID say he shouldn't be a police officer. I DID say that there may be some mitigating circumstances (perhaps ones that justify a charge of attempted manslaughter instead of attempted murder). I DID say police are under more pressure than many people seem willing to admit.

I sincerely hope that if you find yourself in a similar situation that you receive as much charity of thought as you are giving him.

[sendero]

19. The only reason..

... my thoughts are not charitable is that this shit happens ALL THE TIME, but there usually isn't a video.

[Wise Doubter]

35. police are under more pressure than many people seem willing to admit.

Like my coach used to say - "It`s all part of the game" Cops know the possibility of danger(s) - That`s why they take the job.

I`m sure this wasn`t his first day, or chase.

attempted manslaughter is NOT the right charge, just because he was working.

attempted murder IS !!!

[DS1]

33. I believe he's just another power-trippin trigger-happy scumbag

:shrug:

[HuffleClaw]

7. if a citizen did the same they'd be charged with perjury or something

or, at the very least, their testimony would be laughed out of court.

[Kingshakabobo]

26. They wold be charged with attempted murder....

and wouldn't be allowed to walk around free while the D.A. made up his/her mind.

[pinniped]

28. Hey, there really are two sides to every story.

The tape shows one thing and his original police report says otherwise.

[951-Riverside]

29. *smirk*

[Wise Doubter]

34. What would the story be if no one had been there with a camera

Hmmmm ???

How many other shootings have occured in the same fashion ?

Sometimes, things just have a way of coming to the top.

[DiverDave]

36. OOps, I mean, stammer

yeah, he lied, he gets fired, then he gets convicted of, oh, I dunno...unlawfull discharge of a firearm? or something equally ridiculous.

Then he tearfully apologizes then he does community service...

Want to bet it goes down like that?

There have been studies of the reactions of the pursuing officers after the car is stopped.
They DO have a surge of adrenalin, which is KNOWN (or should be by now) to all the police forces.
He didn't remember his TRAINING, and he should go to jail.

There is no substitute for a well trained, disciplined, police officer.