Fukuyama Spurns Bush, Says War in Iraq `Didn't Make Much Sense'

[sabra]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000088&sid=aAJEL3fbQNcw&refer=culture

Fukuyama Spurns Bush, Says War in Iraq `Didn't Make Much Sense'

March 16 (Bloomberg) -- The sound of people scuttling away from the war in Iraq has become deafening. Those who admit to supporting the invasion are getting as scarce on the ground as those who own up to voting for Richard Nixon.

...

The book marks a startling denunciation, from a leading conservative theorist, of the neoconservative thinking that underpinned the Bush administration's decision to go to war. The title on the U.K. edition, ``After the Neocons'' (Profile, 12.99 pounds), tells the story. Fukuyama is jettisoning neoconservatism and saying, in essence: ``Don't blame me for the fiasco in Iraq. People misinterpreted my work.''

Fukuyama once took a hard line on Iraq, signing a 1998 letter that urged U.S. President Bill Clinton to use America's diplomatic, political and military might to remove Saddam Hussein from power. He changed his mind, he says, when he took part in a post-9/11 study on the U.S. strategy for combating terrorism.

``It was at this point that I finally decided the war didn't make much sense,'' he writes.

...

You don't win friends in the Republican Party by comparing President George W. Bush to the Bolshevik with the pointy beard. Yet the comparison is valid. Unlike Marx, who believed that the global adoption of communism was inevitable, Lenin insisted on helping it along, with massive violence if necessary. Similarly, Fukuyama believes liberal democracy is inevitable, while Bush's neocons seek to promote it with tanks.

[Zenlitened]

1. Raise your hand if you're smarter than Francis Fukuyama

... and knew from the outset that "the war didn't make much sense."

:hi:

[greenman3610]

2. Me! Me!

:hi:

[Hand]

9. Me...

What's more, I knew from the outset that Fukuyama was full of shit. "End of History" indeed... RIGHT, asshole. And monkeys will soon fly out of your butt.

[Nostradammit]

16. OOh! OOh!

:hi:

I'm somewhere in here:




1-18-03 San Francisco

[xxqqqzme]

36. I'm in that picture also.

You look fabulous Nostradammit

[Nostradammit]

37. Thanks! -

Isn't that you, over there by the blue bus, xqqqzme?

Here's the sign I was carrying:

[bleedingheart]

27. me!

[calimary]

31. Here!

And I don't even have a PhD from a major university or affiliation with any big-ass conservative think-tank, either.

All I know is what I read, and saw, and discussed, in places like this one.

Which tells you one thing: The information was ALL THERE. It was there for ANYONE who wanted to delve into it, even a little bit. It was there for everyone to consider if they were even slightly into having an open mind. And if WE could see this, ANYBODY could have seen it. It was ALL there, if anyone cared to look further than the pablum being forcefed them from all quarters.

I'm rather proud of us - that we weren't duped, and that we saw through the scams and the scam-artists. At least WE weren't the gullible, ignorant, trusting ones who've been played, and who've been HAD. It's cold comfort, of course, looking at the destruction and hopelessness. Being able to say "I told you so" doesn't bring back the dead to the arms of their grieving, distraught, internally destroyed loved ones. It doesn't mend the broken hearts. It doesn't grow back the missing limbs. It doesn't soothe away the storms of post-traumatic stress disorder. It doesn't cancel out the cumulative effects of depleted uranium our soldiers are stumbling over, over there. It doesn't bring back the cafe society and elegance and world-class museums and historic sites and cosmopolitan sophistication and all the modern conveniences that once distinguished Baghdad. I wish we had more than just gloating privileges. It tastes mighty bitter, even having been correct all along about this.

:cry:

[saigon68]

35. Dozens of us here said it was Iraq-Nam 2 in Feb 2003

Except this Chimp who picked fleas from his butt as lots of people died

[yorkiemommie1]

3. me too!

and most everybody else who was paying attention!

[nankerphelge]

4. He was always overrated...

Still, it's good that he's distanced himself from the worst of the neo-con nonsense. Better late than never.

[babylonsister]

5. Kind of blows the theory out of the water that everything

happening in Iraq is going according to the neocon/PNAC plan.
Unless Mr. F. is yet another distraction.

[sabra]

6. or the BushCO neocons have their own plan...

[babylonsister]

7. That could be why Mr. F. might be a distraction.

Hi, Sabra. It's really hard to believe a damn thing you hear and possibly read. :-(

Edit to change whole context!

[Canuckistanian]

12. Sabra! I almost didn't recognize you

I'm used to seeing you posting blockbuster threads on GD and LBN!

[Penance]

15. Nothing so cunning

It's just a case of the rats leaving the sinking ship. Fukuyama just doesn't have his name directly attached to the disaster the way Cheney, Rumsfeld and Bush do, so he's doing what just about any person with a brain is doing these days: distancing himself from BushCo.

[babylonsister]

18. No cunning involved? I don't think so either, I think they're

inept, and now people are realizing it.
Why have I known that? Now THAT'S scary.

[alarcojon]

33. Exactly. They are inept and incompetent

It explains so much, much more easily than some of the contorted plots I have seen advanced around here. People were willing to overlook the sheer incompetence staring them in the face as long as they were suitably frightened, cowed, and distracted. But a certain critical mass is being approached, with His Chimperial Highness consistently polling at 1/3. The last people to catch on, of course, will be our elected Democratic "leaders."

Fukuyama is just trying to cut his losses. The fact of his defection is a political plus for us - other than that, nothing to see here...

[leftchick]

26. perle and wolfowitz and the rest have not denounced the war

I suspect mr. fuckyomama wants to sell books.

[leesa]

8. Self-serving dumb ass

Bastard supported this fiasco...doesn't like the thought of his scrawny neck in a noose for war crimes, eh?

[ShockediSay]

10. & promote w/ secret police surveillance on dissenting citizens

& if that's not enough, kidnapping them & shipping them off to be tortured

[cliss]

11. Don't believe this "sheep in wolf's clothing"

who's coming clean at the 11th hour. I've read the PNAC documents. It's a disgusting, toxic stew of megalomania, illusions, pipe dreams and aggression gone berserk. Just because the mess in Iraq is spiraling out of control, this creep is washing his hands of it.

Not so fast, buddy.

That web site is still on the Internet. If he really wanted to disavow himself of the mess, he would shut down that web site which has his signature on the documents.
* * * * *
The most ignorant part of those documents was the rationale that "if a dictator is removed from power, democracy would spring up, all by itself". Isn't that unbelievable? WHERE in history do we have some examples of that? The truth is, they don't have any examples because they know it doesn't work that way. These are intellectuals; they know history. They just used that as a ruse to claw their way into Iraq and all the oil riches.

[babylonsister]

21. I've heard for a long time, "Follow the money". nt

[sheelz]

13. Too late!

Wait for 250,000+ dead then speak up. Fuck you Fuk!

[Fovea]

14. Francis Fukuyama declared the end of history

History may now return the favor.

No, really. What the degeneration of NeoConservatism into criminal negligence and vigilant graft shows is that it was always philosophically bankrupt.

Just like it was in the 19th Century, just like it was in 1929, just like it was in 1945, corporatist militarism is a vampire, a sentient parasite feasting of the corpses of battle and the spoils of war.

In the circle of blood suckers must stand Mr. Fukuyama. From here he will be relegated to an academic curiosity, not the fountainhead of a new dogma of imperialism. And that is fitting, because the underlying assumptions of his fan club, PNAC, seem so suddenly *old*, like a Polish Hussar riding down on a Panzer tank.

The idea was that we were the only Superpower, and that trumped all other consideration, in essence, fuck you, rest of the world. We are the only game in town. But the fall of the Soviet Union was not the end of history. History had other plans.

The rest of the world in the 21st century has proven surprizingly agile for it's age and weight, and has hip rolled the thousand year American Century, version 2.0. I don't know whether to yell 'timber,' 'fire-in-the-hole,' or 'fore.'

[Nostradammit]

17. "The world in the 21st century -

has proven surprizingly agile for it's age and weight, and has hip rolled the thousand year American Century, version 2.0. I don't know whether to yell 'timber' or 'fore.'"


That's great - very well said.

[cliss]

19. That is

a great post.

Here's another strange "logic" in the PNAC documents. They said the U.S. would be the Sole Hegemon in the world, a "Benevolent Dictator". Just imagine that. There IS no such thing as a benevolent dictator. Those two words are mutually exclusive. It's like saying "A caring child molester", or "a self-disciplined drug abuser".

Stupid, stupid fools.

[babylonsister]

20. So, can you share your vision of what might

befall the house of the neo-cons and PNACers?

The hubris of this, your words, amazed me, when now they want alliances:

"The idea was that we were the only Superpower, and that trumped all other consideration, in essence, fuck you, rest of the world. We are the only game in town."

Do they even know what's going on?

[Fovea]

22. Well

1. Imagine a world where most oil is sold with the Euro or Yuan. We could not suck up that much money, and the day the rest of the world believes that the damage from the economic crash of the US is preferable to its mad hubris in the Islamic world is the day we all sell each other apples and pencils on the street corner.

2. The fools in PNAC still believe that if we attack Iran, the consequenses will not include blowback. I am trying to imagine what kind of crazy can expect anything but the sort of debacle that Harald Hardrada suffered at Stanfield bridge. This is not Saddams Baathist left overs. This will be a fight where the enemy deploys so far frontally so fast we can't nuke them. And when we do nuke them... See point 1.

3. Civil war, starting 2006-2009.
So many possible ways to get there from here, but for brevity I will say simply, diebold, november, Grand Theft Congressional. Karl Rove, Cheney, et al pardoned. No one fired. Total support system collapse of the south this upcoming storm season. Marches of poor and homeless storm refugees on DC met by troops.
Returning troops from Iraq/Iran decide to revolt against stoploss.

[Fovea]

24. Self correction, don't write while sleepy.

that's the battle of Stamford Bridge.

[babylonsister]

34. Gawd, that's a bleak outlook. Thanks for

sharing though; I'd rather be informed (I think). :)

[Zenlitened]

23. Dynamite post.

Sums it all up nicely.

:applause:

[Yavin4]

25. Bush Has No Exit Strategy from Iraq, But Conservatives Have An Exit...

strategy from him.

[question everything]

28. More about Fukuyama's book, as reveiewd on the WSJ

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=2511200

[skip fox]

29. "Oops!," he says. What the heck are these neo-cons and conservatives

say when they realize that we have destroyed emitted enough gases so that the globe will be in environmental turmoil for the next 10,000 years? "I'm sorry," just won't cut it.

[calimary]

30. Whoa! What an opening statement!

Those who admit to supporting the invasion are getting as scarce on the ground as those who own up to voting for Richard Nixon.

But it's so TRUE!

I'm old enough to remember back when people were hemming and hawing when you asked them if they'd voted for Nixon. It's a wonder he got any votes at all, from all those purportedly disavowing him after Watergate. It's like - WOW! NOBODY voted for him? How'd he get in? I mean, kkkarl rove and Diebold weren't happening back then. Must be some kinda magic, 'eh? Back then, it was outright shame to have to admit you were a republi-CON or that you voted republi-CON. NOBODY wanted to align themselves with that party from HELL. It happened. And I think it'll happen AGAIN. There WILL come a point where you'll start hearing a whole lot of people making like tucker carlson - "of course, I was against this war from the beginning!!! I NEVER supported it!!!" Oh yeah, tucker? When was this? I saw you on TV enough times. Never heard a peep out of you in opposition to ANY of this bush shit. You were ALL IN. WHEN did YOU EVER oppose this war? There's gonna be a shitload of people who've suddenly "got religion" on this and will claim to be pure as driven snow on their anti-war stance. And you can file that in the "yeah, SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURE" file.

Fair-weather warriors. They'd be beating their chests and buying little plastic swords to wave in the air and look all fierce and bloodthirsty if the war were going even a LITTLE bit better.

Rats deserting the ship - of Fools.

[madmark]

32. "didn't make much sense", that's an understatement

[Orrin_73]

38. Now why dont I believe him!!!

He now supposedly bashes neo-cons but what the hell is he doing on the advisory committee of the Libby Legal Defense Trust???? The apple does not fall far from the tree.
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