Franklin Graham Reaffirms Scorn for Islam

[Kerrytravelers]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060315/ap_on_re_us/graham_islam

Franklin Graham Reaffirms Scorn for Islam

By RICHARD N. OSTLING, AP Religion Writer
Wed Mar 15, 6:17 PM ET



The Rev. Franklin Graham, who outraged Muslims in 2001 when he said that Islam "is a very evil and wicked religion," told an interviewer for Wednesday's edition of ABC News "Nightline" that he hasn't changed his mind about the faith.

Asked by ABC correspondent John Donvan whether Muslim groups had succeeded in altering his outlook about Islam, Graham said "No."

"Do they want to indoctrinate me? Yes. I know about Islam. I don't need an education from Islam," he said. "If people think Islam is such a wonderful religion, just go to Saudi Arabia and make it your home. Just live there. If you think Islam is such a wonderful religion, I mean, go and live under the Taliban somewhere. I mean, you're free to do that."

<snip>

The younger Graham angered Muslims following the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks when he told NBC News: "We're not attacking Islam but Islam has attacked us. The God of Islam is not the same God. He's not the son of God of the Christian or Judeo-Christian faith. It's a different God, and I believe it is a very evil and wicked religion."




But no, we're not going to make a religious holy war in the Middle East. This is not a crusade we're on. :eyes: :crazy: :spank: :grr: :scared: :banghead:


Edited for spelling.

[JI7]

1. what an asshole

[ShockediSay]

8. amen .. n/t

[drhilarius]

2. Na-na-na my god is bigger than your god...

and we keep dying over this stupid, superstitious bullshit.

[w4rma]

3. I'm a Christian and I don't worship the same God that Franklin Graham does

That's for sure. Whacko.

[goclark]

21. Ditto

[brer cat]

42. I agree. We need to keep making the point that

the wackos don't represent Christians. They are wackos, rethugs, neocons, bigots, etc. but NOT EVER Christians.

[JI7]

4. where is that Bush nephew ?

who seemed to have a problem with being suspicious of people because of their background when it came to the ports deal.

or does he only care if his family gets to profit from it?

[bluestateguy]

5. According to his logic

"Do they want to indoctrinate me? Yes. I know about Islam. I don't need an education from Islam," he said. "If people think Islam is such a wonderful religion, just go to Saudi Arabia and make it your home. Just live there. If you think Islam is such a wonderful religion, I mean, go and live under the Taliban somewhere. I mean, you're free to do that."

Then I guess that means all the Jews should be forced to go back to Israel (oh wait, that's what the fundies WANT to see happen, to make the rapture happen faster).

[megatherium]

17. The Jews aren't going to Saudi Arabia, that's for sure.

The Saudis bar entry to any Jew into their Kingdom.

[HuffleClaw]

6. who the hell is franklin graham?

and why should it be newsworthy what he says?

[Starbucks Anarchist]

15. Reverend Billy Graham's idiot son.

Like *, he had his wild days, then "found God" and judges all non-believers.

[Canuckistanian]

7. I'm sure if Billy Graham were up to it

He'd smack that kid in the head several times.

[Erika]

10. Yep, Billie is a democrat

Franklin has led the good life of a spoiled elitist. Sad, that he is killing the legacy of his father. Very sad.

[anitar1]

13. Excuse me, but Billy is a Fundie. Do you not

realize that? Have any of you ever listened to Billy Graham's sermons ? I don't think so.You will follow God's word as I have recited it to you or you will go to HELL.

[BR_Parkway]

14. In respect for Billie, he also says that God said feed the poor, take

care of the Earth, love thy neighbor, thou shalt not kill - plenty of the liberalism in the Bible was in his sermons. Franklin, on the other hand, only reads the scriptures that annoint all white guys to rule the earth, control all the money and condemns everyone else to hell.

He reminds me of MLK's daughter - grown on the status of the father's good works, yet an apple that fell extremely far from the tree.

[LostinVA]

16. Correct -- although I agree with Billy Graham on quite a few issues

I am big enough to say that he is a righteous man.... he believe in true charity, regardless of creed, etc. And, he and his wife never lived ostentatiously. So... yeah. He's a Fundie, but he at least understands that Jesus true message was "love thy neighbor." He isn't Falwell or Robertson, that's for sure, although his son is.

[FredScuttle]

44. A righteous man....hmm

must have had a backslide when he was in the Oval Office agreeing with Nixon about how wicked Jews are.

A hint - if he's got a collar and he's on TV....he's a hypocrite and an asshole. Fuck Billy Graham.

[BR_Parkway]

50. His son lives in my town, throws his weight around like the Big Man

he wants everyone else to proclaim him to be. Runs ads looking for cheap employees all the time, always required to submit your personal testimony of salvation along with your resume. Just for kicks one day, I sent in mine and asked if it would be ok for me to list life partner along with past boyfriends as references since we we owned businesses together and the State specifically says we're not family.

They never did call to set up an interview. Oh well, I'm sure they will as soon as another position opens up.

[0007]

34. With a dead fucking rotten twenty five pound mackerel

Another real super Christian speaks.

[NanceGreggs]

9. Franklin Graham proves the old adage ...

... that "The totally rotten acorn never falls far from the twisted tree."

Jesus wept.

[IndianaGreen]

11. Graham's words should be broadcast to every nation in the world

The best weapon against the Christian Jihadists is to turn other jihadists against them!

May they all kill each other in the name of their gods!

Now, what did Marx say about religion being a drug?

[Up2Late]

12. "...we're not going to make a religious holy war...??? Well then...

...what other type of Holy War IS there, OTHER THAN a Religious Holy War? How about a Religious UN-Holy War?:shrug:

Isn't a Religious Holy War rather redundant?

What an idiot.

[Kerrytravelers]

54. Wow. You sure went after me.

I thought old franklin's comments were far worse than my meaningless little observation. Thanks for calling me an idiot. That wasn't very nice, as I certainly didn't do anything to warrant such name calling.

[supernova]

18. Hey, Franklin

Thanks for NOT helping, asshole! :eyes:

I find it so sad that he's got such a different, far nastier, outlook than his father. I couldn't be more different from the Grahams theologically, but I've always respected Billy for being able to articulate a gospel which is at least fair to everyone. And Billy and Ruth Graham have done a lot of work in the community.

But Graham, in order to differentiate from his father, somehow felt the need to me more self-righteous. I don't get it.

[Algorem]

19. He should go back to the drugs,booze and motorcycles.

if he ever really left

[Bridget Burke]

20. Does he even know how many Muslims live in the USA?

Four to 6 million is the estimate in this "Christianity Today" article:

...the American Christian community has misunderstood Islam and so neglected to address it. It is impossible to present the scope of this complex belief system in a single article. Islam is complicated, disparate, evolving, and sometimes at war with itself. Still, Christians have a responsibility to understand our Muslim neighbors, come to terms with their increasing presence and influence, and learn how to bear an authentic witness out of love and not fear.

To do this, it is necessary to be informed about the basics of Islam and how Muslims view Christianity; to be equipped with helpful models for relating to Muslims; and to be encouraged to engage our Muslim neighbors, boldly and lovingly, sincerely and tenaciously.

www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2000/004/1.40.html

Yes, "witnessing" to Muslims is one of the goals. But, as Evangelists, these people understand the Muslim desire to convert others. They do not fear it.

This is the first of a series of articles on understanding Islam. Too bad Franklin Graham never read them.

[megatherium]

29. There is reason to doubt there are 6 million Muslims in this country.

The true number, some claim, is in the 2 to 3 million range. The reason why Muslims claim 6 million in the US, some allege, is purely political: there are about 6 million Jews in the US, and it is claimed that the Muslims are trying to compare their political importance to that of the Jews. Me, I have no idea how many Muslims there are here; but over-stating numbers is an old game in the religion biz, everyone does it.

[PsychoDad]

30. the Muslim desire to convert others

Have you ever had, or heard of Muslim "Missionaries" knocking on doors?
Have you ever encountered a Muslim at the mall asking you if you have heard the Good News of Islam?
Have you ever had a Muslim ask you, "If you died right now, do you know what would happen to your soul"?

Probably not.

Muslims don't evangelize in such a fashon, nor do we try and pressure anyone to convert. The Quran makes it quite clear that "There is no compulsion in religion" (sura 2:256).

Of course, if someone should ask us about our faith, we as muslims should be willing to share it with others... to inform, not to compel.

In truth, it is Allah who leads the heart to Islam. We do not need to evangelize, Allah is able to deliver the message of Islam to places even where there are no Muslims to carry the message.

Peace.

[Bridget Burke]

32. "Evangelize" is not the right word...

Many people continue to convert to Islam, but I know that it is not forced upon them. Here in Houston, we have many Muslim immigrants & their children. But "locals"--black & white--are also accepting the message.

Even some Christians who wish to "witness" manage to do so in a non-annoying manner. The communication encouraged in the articles I linked is meant to help neighbors live together in peace.

[megatherium]

43. At my university, some Muslim students had a table with evangelical

literature on display, that is, English-language literature promoting Islam. This was at our little international fair.

This prompts a question: What is Islamic teaching on unbelievers, especially atheists or non-monotheists? Are they doomed to whatever passes for Hell in Muslim teaching? Or are people judged on their behavior towards others, regardless of religion?

By the way, what is Islamic teaching on homosexuality? (Any better than traditional Christian teachings on that subject?)

[Solon]

48. Depends upon the Mosque...

Just like in Christianity it depends on the Church, some are REALLY conservative, condemning all who are not like them, others accepting, etc. Now, one thing that I heard is that in Islam, unlike Christianity, there is no permanent hell, its more of a temporary punishment, the severity of which depends upon your sins, and then you reach heaven anyways, or something like that. A Muslim can correct me if I'm wrong.

[PsychoDad]

49. Good questions...

But the answers, as I think you may suspect, depend upon the Muslim you ask.

As there is no central authority for the interpretation of our faith, it is up to each Muslim to decide what it is The Quran is saying.

Both the subjects are pretty weighty and worthy of a great deal of attention, but here are the thumbnail answers.

The Quran teaches us as Muslims to be just and tolerant of everyone, regardless of their belief. As for the final judgment, and who will see the paradise? Only god can tell, and only God has the right to decide But, in my opinion many Muslims would say that it is our actions and intention which will bear more weight on that day than what we called ourselves in this life. One of the foremost teachings of Islam is that God is the most Merciful and most forgiving and that the Mercy of the One will outweigh any anger or displeasure at our actions or lack of actions in this life.

Homosexuality is not addressed per se in the Quran, unlike the bible. Most of the current views toward Homosexuality are colored by local custom and made legitimized by various Hadeeth (The recorded sayings and actions of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)). In practice again, you can find Muslims of various opinions.

Peace.

[Jack Rabbit]

22. Jack Rabbit reaffirms his scorn for Franklin Graham

. . . and Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell.

[onager]

23. This atheist trusts Muslims with his life every day...

At least I will be after tomorrow, when I return to Egypt...a 95% Muslim country where I spent most of the past year.

Oh, and I did live in Saudi Arabia for 2 years. It's a repressive theocracy, much like the Franklin Grahams would love to see in the U.S. As long as they are doing the repressing, anyway.

I've had many different Egyptian Muslims express a similar thought to me about religion, in much the same terms: "We don't care whether you call yourself a Muslim, a Xian or a non-believer. Your religion is your business. We care about how you act. That's what makes you a good person. Not what you claim you believe."

Once, in a business setting in Tulsa, I made the mistake of admitting I was an atheist to a couple of undercover Fundie asshats.

I was subjected to the most tasteless, horrifying "witnessing" I have ever encountered...and I grew up 40 miles from Bob Jones University, in SC.

Fundie Asshat #1 said his little boy had fallen down the stairs and hurt his head. Doctors said he might have brain damage, but through "a miracle from Gawd" he pulled thru and was ok.

Great story so far. But the jerk just had to mention some neighbors, whose little toddler girl suffered a similar accident and DID have brain damage.

"Now I don't know if their FAITH just wasn't as strong as ours, or what..."

Fundie Asshat #2 thanked Brother Bunghole for his "powerful testimony" and said he enjoyed the thought of the atheists writhing in hellfire because they "refused Gawd's love."

I've told a few Egyptians that I am an atheist. Here's a couple of reactions from those militant, dangerous, kill-the-infidel Muslims:

Male, age 31, career military officer: "That's cool. I have friends who are non-believers. They're good people."

Female, thirtyish, quadralingual tour guide: "You don't need religion to be a good person. People have done horrible things in the name of religion. They are still doing horrible things every day in the name of my religion. And I wish they'd stop it."

Sorry for the rambling, but this type of "thinking" from Graham really presses my hot button.

Whatever people profess, I always look at them first as human beings. (When you join the Evil Atheist Conspiracy, you get a free membership in the Evil Secular Humanists, y'know).

My job has taken me all over the world, and that outlook has always proved useful. Because we are all just human beings, and the differences between us pale beside the similarities.

[Warpy]

37. The rest of the world has come to me

especially when I was a nurse in a big east coast city.

I have found what you've found, that the fundy mindset is to blame, not the religions they twist to justify their own hatred.

I've known many Muslims, and only one of them was crazy, and he didn't turn into a militant asshat until he went back to the West Bank.

I've known many Christians, and the majority were good people, but a few of them have had serious screws loose. Too many of them have gotten sucked into sort of a low Calvinism that has completely eliminated Jesus Christ from their lives.

I've known lots of Buddhists, but the worst they came up with was superciliousness, annoying but not dangerous.

I've also known some diehard atheist Marxists who thumped Das Kapital as fervently as any Christian fundy thumps his bible.

A fundy is a fundy is a fundy, in other words, and it has little to do with any specific religion or even political system. These are the people we need to identify and keep away from dangerous things.

[JNelson6563]

59. Bravo Onager!

Good post! Says it all!

:toast:

[Lars39]

24. I still want to know how many soldiers died so his missionaries

could be in Iraq ASAP.

[CBGLuthier]

25. So the Grahams hate jews and muslims

Wonder how they feel about catholics?

[Lars39]

26. My guess is that their interests converge over abortion

and birth control, but that the Grahams or their dimwitted followers do not believe that Catholics are christian.
Catholics aren't shy about using the fundies to further their goals, either.

[saigon68]

27. Catholics aren't shy about using the fundies to further their goals

I SEE THAT ALL THE TIME

Especially on birth control

DIDN'T YOU KNOW


"ONLY TRAMPS NEED BIRTH CONTROL" </SARCASM>

[Lars39]

31. I was thinking of the UN example of this.

Where they got together to withold funds to clinics in other countries.
If the clinic even mentions abortion, the funding is gone.
The wording of the Missouri legislation doesn't permit the doctors to even recommend who else the low-income patient can see to obtain birth control.

[saigon68]

35. nice ----not

[area51]

28. "... but Islam has attacked us."

:wtf:

Islam didn't attack us, asshat! Is F. Graham going around saying that when McVeigh bombed the Murrah bldg., that Christianity attacked us? Or when there's an abortion clinic bombing, that Christianity attacked us? Didn't think so.

[UTUSN]

33. If only he had STAYED a chemical abuser & thusly led a PRODUCTIVE life

[mitchum]

36. Just another family feud between the skygod worshippers...

please leave we heathens out of your silly magic pissing contests

[Zhade]

38. Heck, he sounds like a few of the posters here...

...who throw around racist barbs about Muslims.

[Claire Beth]

39. I loathe Franklin Graham...

and those who think the "Chrisitans" are the only ones who can be right.
grrrrrr

[genie_weenie]

40. hmmm, I'm just wondering what the DU reaction would be

if the word Islam was replaced with Republican(s)? E.G Republicans are very evil and wicked. Or
I don't need an education from Republicans. Or The President of the US is not my president.

Would the reaction be:
Similar (rightly condemning such statements)
Different (applauding his stance against those evil republicans)

I believe Liberals are better than Republicans (in general) for the reason that I read the DU, most of the viewpoints offered are informed and most of the Liberals seem to be knowledgeable and well read. But, individually liberals can of course run the gamut and be better, similar, or worse than a specific republican...

Just my thoughts...

Generalizations suck, everyone knows that!

[FredScuttle]

45. Gee, do Muslims run our Congress?

and occupy the WH.....and control the judiciary?

Nope, they don't.


And Mr. Graham was speaking, ostensibly, as a Christian condemning one of the major faiths in the world...not a politician launching broadsides against the opposing party. Political partisanship is a David Ortiz home run away from the religious bigotry Mr. Graham is espousing.

So you don't have a point. Thanks for playing.

[geniph]

41. DU'er Geniph Reaffirms Scorn for Franklin Graham

Dude, your dad left the best part of you on the sheet.

[Kerrytravelers]

56. LOL!

:spray: :rofl:

Followed by a "ewwwww" thinking about the stuff left on the sheets. :puke:

[fortyfeetunder]

46. With his logic...

...If people think Xtianity is such a wonderful religion, just go to Red State Bible Belt America and make it your home. Just live there...

[NMMNG]

47. What a jerk

"Do they want to indoctrinate me? Yes. I know about Islam. I don't need an education from Islam,"

And the goal of evangelical Christianity is not indoctrination of all non-believers?


"If you think Islam is such a wonderful religion, I mean, go and live under the Taliban somewhere. I mean, you're free to do that."

If anyone thinks Fundamentalist Christianity is a wonderful religion go live under the American Taliban somewhere. I mean, you're free to do that.



Talk about the Pot calling the Kettle black. :eyes:

[underpants]

51. Kicking so everyone sees what this very relevant person has to say

[The Straight Story]

52. Well he should have bashed christians so we could applaud him

This stuff about muslims is just terrible. Why do we have to offend others like this?

Did I leave my sarcasm around somewhere??

[Codeine]

53. LOL! nt

[VegasWolf]

55. This clown has obviously been kissing too many snakes and rolling

around on too many floors!

[Rex]

57. Operation Crusade.

I mean Desert Storm. :eyes:

[Kerrytravelers]

58. Operation Swarm.

And kill innocent civilians and children and the elderly and parents and adolescents and teenagers and pregnant women and ...

Oh, I could go on and on and on... :grr:

[Rex]

61. They took the Prince of Peace

slapped some armor plating on em, gave him a bazooka and a bandoleer of hand grenades. Honestly, people today are so far deluded as to believe that religion calls for the death and suffering of innocent people. Warmongers justify it by labeling mass murder as 'righteousness' and 'necessary'. Then they give names to their bloodbaths; the crusades, various Inquisitions, witch burnings, hangings, state sanctioned murder of all varieties over horrendous crimes. Death and suffering only limited by ones imagination. Pat Robertson is a perfect example as to how this mentality still pervades Judeo-Christian-Islamic views.

[young_at_heart]

60. We live near Billy...should I ask him if he could influence his son more?

Billy Graham's daily column in our newspaper does not reflect his son's statements.

[sarcasmo]

62. This is why I will NEVER set foot in a Christian church again.

The hate these BASTARDS preach is unbearable.

[tsuki]

63. Poster child for the Estate Tax. n/t