Iraqi cleric wants gays killed in "most severe way"

[ECH1969]

Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani has issued a violent death order against gays and lesbians on his Web site, according to London-based LGBT human rights groups OutRage.

Written in Arabic, the fatwa comes from a press conference with the powerful religious cleric, where he was asked about the judgment on sodomy and lesbianism. “Forbidden,” Sistani answered, according to OutRage, “Punished, in fact, killed. The people involved should be killed in the worst, most severe way of killing.”

Considering Sistani's stature and influence within the Iraqi Shiite majority, OutRage member Ali Hili declared the cleric's statements extremely dangerous.

“Sistani's murderous homophobic incitement has given a green light to Shia Muslims to hunt and kill lesbians and gay men,” said Hili. “We hold Sistani personally responsible for the murder of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender Iraqis. He gives the killers theological sanction and encouragement.”

http://www.logoonline.com/news/story.jhtml?id=1526230&disableFeatureRedirect=true&contentTypeID=1087

[FloridaPat]

1. What is it with men and gays?

[Taverner]

4. Some men feel threatened

They fear they might be "turned queer" by osmosis

[Warpy]

10. More like they are terrified some man will treat them

the way they treat women.

[LostinVA]

16. Bingo

[Chovexani]

23. Been sayin that for years

I'm totally convinced that's what it's about.

[sharp_stick]

5. Don't know if it's men so much

but I have sure noticed that the more "religious" among us are a lot more concerned about what others do with their bodies than the more sane... I mean less religious.

Fundie nut jobs of all religions have a really weird obsession with genitals and I've never been able to figure it out.

[izzybeans]

2. Replace Iraq cleric with American cleric

and al-sistani with the hydra head of Falwell/Robertson/Dobson.

Now take both articles side by side. Notice the fundamental lesson about the fundamentalist reactionaries worldwide. We (the general we) fight a "mindset" elsewhere and embrace it at home.

[megatherium]

22. You have to credit Falwell/Robertson/Dobson, however; they aren't

calling for the most severe death for homosexuals. Actually many evangelical leaders make a point of saying they hate the sin but not the sinner. The big megachurch ("Six Flags Over Jesus") in my neck of the woods preaches that homosexuals should be welcome in church. (Of course, they preach that homosexuality is sinful, and they repeat the lie that gay people can change.) Their logic: If gay people are treated with hate, they will be pushed away from the gospel. OK, so it's not exactly loving or tolerant; and it certainly isn't enlightened. But you have to admit it's a lot better than al-Sistani's approach.

[izzybeans]

24. True but it takes one big event to turn that mindset to bloodlust.

So see no difference. Both are reactionary forces, one has just been radicalized because of its relationship to imperialism.

[megatherium]

27. But they condemned homosexuality long before western imperialism.

In the Koran, Sura 27, we read: And tell of Lot. He said to his people: 'Are you blind that you should commit indecency, lustfully seeking men instead of women?' And this was their reply: 'Banish the house of Lot from your city. They are men who would keep chaste.' So We delivered him and all his tribe, except his wife whom We caused to stay behind, pelting the others with rain, and evil was the rain which fell on those who had been warned.' (N. A. Dawood translation, Penguin Classics, 1974.)

[izzybeans]

28. So did Christianity.

My point was radicalism. Condemnation vs. murder.

The difference is social not textual. The texts are nearly the same.

[megatherium]

32. Everyone did. Western imperialism is to blame for many bad things,

but I don't think Islamic homophobia is one of them.

[izzybeans]

33. reactionary radicalism is what I was addressing.

[megatherium]

34. That makes sense. Western values and popular culture, good or bad,

must seem tremendously intrusive to Muslims. The war must amplify this. I understand the anger, but it is unfortunate that it ends up being directed towards gay people. We need to get the hell out of there to allow things to calm down.

[izzybeans]

38. Unfortunate but predictable.

Purging the "outcast" when threatened emboldens them, but it does not erase the problem. Homosexuals were always stigmatized and it becomes dangerous when a cultural power is roaming around looking for someone to punish during a period of conflict.

That's why I addressed fundamentalism in general.

[foreigncorrespondent]

37. That's because Falwell/Robertson/and Dobson...

...have been too smart to actually say it. However, let us not forget the trouble Swaggart got himself into last year with Canadian Association of Broadcasters, by breaking their ethics code, when he stated: "I'm going to be blunt and plain: If one ever looks at me like that, I'm going to kill him and tell God he died." That little bombshell can be found here

And let us not forget about Rushdoony, the founder of the entire Radical Right Reconstructionist movement in America. Let's not forget that these reconstructionists want the law of the land to be the Mosaic Law, which by the way calls for all practicing homosexuals and adulterers to be put to death.

Also try researching out Paul Cameron, who is the evil bastard who made up all those statistics about gay practices, for which the Family Research Council then spreads all over the place. Just one of Cameron's quotes is: "Unless we get medically lucky, in three or four years, one of the options discussed will be the extermination of homosexuals."

I suggest you begin reading the following links, so you learn exactly what it is the lefties of the nation and the world are truly up against:

http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/38/11490 This is an excellent Truthout.org investigation about Rushdoony and his mob.

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=591 Another good one about Rushdoony.

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=524 This one will give you just a hint of what it is we are all up against.

http://www.hatecrime.org/subpages/hatespeech/hate.html This one has quotes from a few people/orgs you will recognize.

And lastly, if you believe the Falwell's and Robertsons of the world aren't tied into all of this then please start doing some research on all the orgs listed in the following link and begin comparing memberships with that of the CNP (Council on National Policy.)

http://www.indegayforum.org/authors/olson/olson16.html

[C_U_L8R]

3. Sounds like George Bush's kind of guy

hate everyone who is not like you

[saigon68]

6. Maybe Alsistani will be "be killed in the worst, most severe way of killin

By some other rustic

[THUNDER HANDS]

7. sounds like a guy who needs to get laid

just sayin'

[FiveGoodMen]

19. Sounds like a guy who should be anally raped.

[Rex]

8. Finally! Something Pat 'kill the socialists' Robertson and Grand Hater

can agree on! The eradication of a group of people! I'm sure he will get a full endorsement from the Heritage Foundation, the Cato Institute, Bob Jones University and the 'moral majority'. :eyes:

[msongs]

9. isn't religion... wonderful? nt

[Minstrel Boy]

12. Blaming religion is like blaming electricity when

you get struck by lightening.

It's simply a force. It's what people do with it that's the problem.

[Taxloss]

31. "Simply a force"?

Like magnetism? Do you think we could harness it as a form of alternative energy? I suppose the heliocentric faiths already have in a way. As an atheist, what could I "do" with it?

There are plenty of evil atheists in history. But they're just evil. They don't have an excuse. Religion is the excuse for the theists. When it's an unemployed loner who says that God told him to stab an old lady, we call it mental illness. When it's a leader or a spiritual leader launching a crusade or a pogrom, and drawing in thousands of supporters, it's a faith-based initiative.

[sarcasmo]

36. How is Religion not to be blamed for this stupidity?

[QC]

14. Aren't simpleminded, broad-brush statements...tiresome? n/t

[VegasWolf]

17. You are absolutely right! If there were any real validation for religion

one might think that tolerance and humanity were it. Instead, religions seem to focus on stirring up blind hatred toward fellow human beings simply on the basis that they are different. Oh well, I guess they have to keep their sheep flocks motivated over something to keep the tithes rolling in!

[951-Riverside]

18. Life would be so much easier without religion

if there was a God religion wouldn't exist it gives very lazy & stupid people too much power not only that it sets society FAR back.

<<Edited my original message was probably too offensive.>>
...and the other religious that try to force people to "join up" or call for the killing for people who don't believe in they child like beliefs can go fuck themselves.

[Chovexani]

26. No it wouldn't

People would just find something else to kill each other over

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

29. It's perfectly possible to be religious and not be a psychotic bigot...

...just like it's perfectly possible to engage in unsafe sex and not get AIDS.

[TrogL]

11. Let's invade Iraq and do something about it

wait...we already did that.

[megatherium]

21. Oddly enough, al-Sistani is the cleric we've been relying on to keep

the Shi'ites from joining the insurgency.

[MidwestTransplant]

13. Maybe the RNC should link to Sistani's website?

[Orsino]

15. Freedom's on the march.

Specifically, a goose-step.

[Wise Doubter]

20. Isn`t Ali al-Sistani going to be on the 700 club next week? n/t

[LynnTheDem]

25. FREEEEEEEEEEDOM!!! DEMOCRACY!!!

Way to go, bush!!!

KILL! KILL! KILL! In the most severe way, of course...maybe drawn & quartered with beheading? RAH!RAH!RAH! GAWD BLESS BUSH! Look how he's made Iraqi life so much better!!!

Geebus fucking Cripes.

[tanyev]

30. The rabid fundies must be so envious.

[sarcasmo]

35. Yet another comparison between the Christian extremists and the Muslim

extremists.