Trading the Hummer for a Honda (large SUVs becoming less "cool")

[Bozita]

Five-figure incentives becoming more common.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/18/business/18trucks.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

March 18, 2006


Trading the Hummer for a Honda
By MICHELINE MAYNARD

DETROIT, March 17 — For Janna Jensen, it was the dirty looks and nasty gestures from other drivers that finally persuaded her to give up the family's $55,000 Hummer H2. Her husband, Michael, meanwhile, was tired of the $300 monthly gasoline cost and the quality problems that began soon after they bought it.

So the Jensens of Reno, Nev., dumped the sport utility vehicle this year for a more modest Honda Element, still an S.U.V. but one with better gasoline mileage and a lower profile than the H2. And they are not alone.

Luxury sport utilities are becoming decidedly less cool than just three years ago, when they were the hottest things on wheels and dealers had long waiting lists for the most popular models.

On top of the sales drop that has hurt all sport utilities, fewer than half the people who bought luxury S.U.V.'s are going back for another one. Incentives for the vehicles are at record levels and for the first time, luxury automakers are paying out more for rebates and lease deals to entice consumers to buy luxury S.U.V.'s than to buy cars.

more...

[llmart]

1. Glad to know that maybe my nasty looks.......

at drivers of these behemoths may actually make them uncomfortable! Tee hee. I also give nasty looks to those in other monstrous vehicles.

Soldiers are dying and being maimed for life because of the gas guzzling ways of Americans.

[MrPrax]

20. Nasty looks are a big factor...

but I also suspect the occasional flat tire, graffiti and a whack of stickies on the driver side of the windshield helps push those 'people' to the right path as well.



:evilgrin:

[KansDem]

21. It's unfortunate that it's had to come to this....

Someone shopping for a Hummer (or large SUV) should have stopped long enough to say to himself, "Hmmm, large vehicles mean more gasoline consumption. Do I really want to go down that path considering mid-east tension, greenhouse gases, and Peak Oil? Maybe a smaller, more fuel-efficient car is the answer!" But no..."nasty looks" is the motivator to make the "right choice" for this mindset of consumer.

[juliana24]

47. Fact: Lots of pickups only get 10-12 MPG. Maybe we can hassle them too?

What a bunch of fools some of you are.

No wonder so many of us get labeled by the regressives as "liberals". as if its a dirty word.

[NickB79]

73. Yes we should hassle them

I think we should hassle anyone who drives a vehicle that is wasteful if they don't have a good reason to own one. Drive a Hummer or F-350 for commuting to work? Hassle them. Drive an F-350 to haul around horses because you have a horse ranch? Not a problem, it's a legitimate reason to own a large truck.

I grew up driving a truck since I grew up on a farm. There were lots of things we needed a large vehicle for, and still do. But when I see perfectly groomed men and women driving around spotless Hummers in rush-hour traffic, and spoiled teenagers in new trucks with spinner rims on them hanging out at the local McDonalds at 10pm, I suspect there is no damn good reason they need one of them.

[blondeatlast]

2. Janna Jensen, congratulations. You survived the brick wall

falling on your head.

My heart so bleeds for you NOT.

[alcibiades_mystery]

3. I love it when I'm in front of a Hummer in a left turn lane

I just sit there until I see some oncoming traffic. They beep and beep. I just sit there. Then, just before the oncoming traffic will make turning impossible, I make the left, leaving the Hummer to wait until the traffic has subsided to make its own left. Gahh, we laugh and laugh.

[BlackHeart]

7. I hope you don't have any

pro-democrat stickers on your car, that would make us all look spiteful or stupid.

[CottonBear]

11. Who cares what the Hummer drivers think? Obviously, they don't care

about the environment, conservation, traffic safety or the impression that they give to the driving public. People who own these ridiculous and useless vehicles (and I know a Hummer owner) get a mental boost from driving a faux military vehicle. The majority are the biggest chickenhawks you'll ever meet.

Did you mean to say pro-Democrat (big D) as in a sticker promoting a particular candidate or pro-Democratic Party (Big D) or pro-democratic (little d) as in a sticker promoting democratic ideals or goals? There is a huge difference in meaning when use use the noun or adjective and when proper capitalization is used. FYI, back in the 1950s and continuing to this day extreme conservatives (now neo-cons and the GOP/RNC) have attempted to promote the improper use of democratic, Democratic Party and Democrat(s) in order to try and de-link the democratic concept from the noun Democrat or from the Democratic Party by referring to the "Democrat Party." Their use is incorrect because a noun cannot modify a noun. Just a heads up since you're a newbie. Improper use of the terms is a sure way to spot a freeper or a ditto-head or an rapid rightwinger. Unfortunately, some Democrats use the terms incorrectly at time (Randi Rhodes does it) which drives me crazy.

Welcomme to DU. :hi:

[alcibiades_mystery]

23. LOL

Yeah, suuuuuuuuuuure it would.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

They hurt us all with their selfishness, so once in a while they get a little payback. You call it spite. i call it wresting the slimmest margin of justice from the world.

[CottonBear]

9. Brilliant idea! I saw a huge, yellow original style Hummer yesterday.

That particular model makes the other Hummers look small in comparison. My theory is that most Hummer owners are men with Napoleon complexes or men attempting to compensate for small genitalia.

The county where I spotted the yellow Hummer is mainly white, upper-middle class and Republican. Hummers and other giant SUVs are everywhere. I recently saw a woman loading groceries into a ridiculous (and mostly useless) Hummer pickup the other day. I actually know a Hummer owner. He traded in his last one for a new one.

It hard to believe that people buy these montrous behemoths for more than I paid for my home. :(

edit: Obviously, the woman mentioned in the article changed her mind about Hummers but most Hummer drivers could care less. As far as the $300 gas bill is concerned, the only monthly bill that I have that is over $300 is my $367/month mortage. I can't believe these people are not saving on gas costs and putting that money towards retirement savings.

[Lisa]

37. They've been marketing giant SUVs to women using the "protection" theme

I noticed a number of commercials in the past few years (guess they wanted to elaborate a bit on the "wheeled penis" idea). A psych prof I know drew my attention to this ... she noted that the commercials seemed to be hinting that an SUV is a big, strong, reliable protector which is an acceptable husband-substitute (and will actually help you become more independent).

[CottonBear]

45. That is very interesting.

Advertising is so subtle. I'd never picked up that theme or concept. It does seem to ring true.

I drive a mid- size truck because I need to haul horse stuff about and Mr. CB's music equipment. Our other car is a Corolla sedan. We drive the Toyota on long trips and the truck around town.

[rfkrfk]

55. 'protection', code word for 'step up like a school bus'

which is popular with people who don't like sitting
in a normal car, for reasons of arthritis or overweight
or whatever

[entanglement]

77. I thought women used other things as husband substitutes

but oh, well...

:evilgrin:

[susanna]

50. I just have to say something...

"My theory is that most Hummer owners are men with Napoleon complexes or men attempting to compensate for small genitalia."

My thoughts are the same. Do any Hummer/HUGE SUV drivers understand that there are a GIGANTIC amount of people who think it is related to small genitalia issue? I see 'em on the road, and I signal "little dick" to my husband. It is pretty standard...

[Mountainman]

72. You really think people give a shit what you think about them?

They are supposed to feel bad because you associate them with little dicks? You look like the fool to me. Seems childish.

[NashVegas]

59. You'd Be Amazed

A good number of Hummer drivers I see are very young (college age or younger) women. Maybe I'm catching them riding daddy's car, I don't know.

[llmart]

61. I have an even better story.......

I, too, live in an area where there are plenty of McMansions and people with Hummers. Last weekend I saw a Hummer about a mile from my house on the side of the road, a white, well-dressed woman standing behind it and some guy who had come with a gas can and was filling up the tank! Apparently this dumbshit of a woman had run out of gas! I was a passenger in my car and I can't believe I did this, but I pointed out the window and laughed my ass off at this scenario. I so wanted to roll down the window and say, "Serves you right."

At 57, I have to get my jollies somewhere:)

[DS1]

24. I do the exact same kind of thing

I go out of my way to make them associate driving those things with utter misery

:thumbsup:

[juliana24]

46. Thats a really dumb idea. My husband's freind did that to truckers and he.

ended up in the hospital, after he did it to the same man
more then once, as it was a local trucker that finally
clobbered him.

What, you never heard of road-rage?

You are proving nothing by doing such a stupid thing.

MYOB!

[alcibiades_mystery]

60. Waaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh

Whatever.

I'm not trying to "prove" anything.

I'm trying to provoke a response.

And the road rage, ha ha, doesn't really scare me much. Especially from a douchebag in a fucking Hummer :rofl:.

I will keep doing this everytime I'm lucky enough to disrupt the driving of somebody in a Hummer. I long for these opportunities, and relish them when they come. And somebody abusing society by buying one of these imbecile-mobiles IS my fucking business, believe that.

[tabasco]

71. You're calling other people imbeciles?

Oh, the irony.

[llmart]

62. Well, if you read the article.......

you would see that at least with this person it DID prove something and got her to rethink buying one.

I think I smell a troll. Or maybe you own one and the truth hurts, huh?

[dysfunctional press]

67. wow...that's real intelligent...

people who fuck with other drivers simply for their own amusement are the kind of assholes that road rage was invented for. maybe someday, with a little luck and some more life experience- you'll be mature enough to know better.

[slor]

4. Were those ugly wasteful...

pieces of crap ever cool?

[Skittles]

5. no

they have always been disgusting

[salin]

6. $300 a month gas bill?

On my once a month commute I hit a spate of stoplights half way on the trip - and inevitably am sitting at a light by a big luxury SUV (though rarely a hummer) - and I chuckle to myself - this fool (if coming from my same place - which is likely on this trip) has already gone through 1-2 gallons of gas - and in my new little Prius - haven't even gone through half a gallon.

I promise I am only an obnoxious smug Prius driver - when I am sitting next to a really oversized ostentacious SUV...

[tammywammy]

36. I love my little diesel Beetle

43 mpg regularly (and it's mixed city/hwy, but leaning towards more hwy). I've never gotten worse than 36, and I can use biodiesel in my car. :loveya:

[hatrack]

8. And yet, today's paper talked about the new EVEN BIGGER Navigator

That's right, folks - wider wheelbase, slightly longer body and a 5.4 liter V8.

Yeppers, the next generation of Testosterone Shitwagons shows that Detroit's really in touch with what customers want.

:eyes:

[blondeatlast]

10. They keep building what America doesn't want and then whining about

labor costs being prohibitive.

God, how I love American business! :sarcasm:

[llmart]

63. I live in the Detroit area.......

and if the Big Two (I no longer consider that there is a Big Three since Chrysler is owned by Germany)are stupid enough to keep pumping these out I feel no pity for the company if it goes bankrupt. I do feel enormous pity for the average worker who is stuck with the consequences of the stupid decisions of billionaire auto execs.

[LibDemAlways]

12. This news hasn't made it to my

community yet. Seven years ago when my daughter started kindergarten I was the only mom of a kid in her class who didn't drive a behemoth SUV. Now in the middle school parking lot I'm still surrounded by them - and many are new. These morons just trade in the old leased one for a new leased one - Escalades, Yukons, Armadas, Hummers....I see them all. It's a frightening sight to see a soccer mom type driving the damn thing at top speed with one hand while yakking on the cellphone. Most of them live in new million dollar McMansions and the husbands earn big bucks as lawyers, accountants, and technical types in the movie/tv industry. They don't care how much it costs or how fuel inefficient it is. In their world it's still the cool thing to drive. Only when a few brave sheep leave the pack and decide to downsize will any progress be made on that front. So far it hasn't happened.

Glad to see that people elsewhere are waking up. Hopefully in a few more years, these monstrosities will be history.

[teknomanzer]

14. Another seldom mentioned frustration with SUV's...

Do you ever have trouble finding your car in that lot? I don't know about you, but where ever I go some knuckle head with a mini-van or a giant SUV has to park next to me. The result is I end up looking lost and confused in the parking lot because I can't see my car past the mountainous vehicles parked next to it. I'm searching, turning about and looking in all directions thinking, "I swear I parked right here!" Only to find my car is the the next space over hidden behind some jerkoff's SUV. I've tried to park further away from the building where there are more spaces available in the vain hope that no one will park next to me, but to no avail. Some one with an Escalade always manages to find the space next to my car and completely blots it out from my view with the SUV's behemouth profile.

[LibDemAlways]

18. How true. And, inevitably some ass will

park next to me so close that I can barely get out the door. One day I pulled up in front of the dry cleaners, got out, retrieved my laundry,and when I returned to the car some idiot in one of those pieces of shit had pulled in beside me and parked so close that I could not get into my car on the drivers' side. I had to go around to the passenger side and crawl through.

Also, they are just plain traffic hazards. God, I hate those things.

[THUNDER HANDS]

13. sports cars use just as much gas

My uncle has a Lamborghini and it gets 8 miles to the gallon. The only difference is, its not a big monstrosity like the H2.

[Newsjock]

16. The safety thing

Of course, in a close-physical-contact battle of Lamborghini vs. Prius, both parties would have at least a fighting chance, unlike in Hummer vs. Prius.

As someone else notes above, I get really scared when I see a ditzy cellphone-yappin' soccer mom applying makeup and trying to navigate one of these giant behemoths. "Oops, looks like I just flattened another bicyclist."

[rfkrfk]

54. most people now live in the 21st century

many Chevy Corvette owners report milage
of 25 to 30 mpg when driven reasonably,
of course, if you wind it out to 7 grand in every gear,
you burn lots of gas.

the problem with SUVs is,
huge weight and air drag

[onehandle]

15. In a related story, penises are getting larger. nt

[peacefreak]

58. And brains are getting smaller.

:evilgrin:

[blondeatlast]

17. Toyota Prius is the top seller, according to CNN

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2174671

There is common sense in the US--it's just designed overseas and probably made in Tennessee (my Corolla was made in TN).

[beyond_the_pale]

19. Small Car, Big Car, Deja Vu

Small cars will be more expensive. Late Eighties, I could buy a used, late model Lincoln Conti for 3-4 grand. A new Toyota (with no trunk space, leg/head room by the way) was un-affordable. Big question for the sheeple, how much gas can we afford to put in our big cheep used car?

Is this the true legacy of Ronald Regan? CV says that Jimmy Carter lost re-election due to the Hostage Crisis. However, the big crisis in 1979 was fuel. When Ronald was elected, suddenly and miraculously gas was abundant and prices dropped. If we had stayed on course for small cars and fuel conservation our path may not have led to Iraq/Iran dilemma.

[NJCher]

56. this is exactly what oil industry expert Kenneth Duffeyes says

When he spoke at the university where I teach, he said that IF we'd listened to Jimmy Carter, we could have had a "soft landing."

But noooooooooooooo, republicans made sure we didn't do that. On nosirrreee, instead they had to ridicule him for walking down Pennsylvania Avenue on his inauguration. Laugh at him for putting on a sweater instead of jacking up the heat.

Who's laughing now, dickheads?




Cher

[Bake]

22. Nasty looks? I prefer to give 'em the finger!

I hope it pisses 'em off.

Bake

[juliana24]

48. What are you going to do when they come for you?

A tire iron, a knife or a gun and its all over.

Dont like living too much or have you never heard of road rage?

[NJCher]

57. why are you so concerned?

You've made what--three posts on this issue?

If somebody wants to show disrespect, ridicule and scorn for SUV drivers, it's their business.




Cher

[crankybubba]

25. what about the honda ridgeline???

full size and not that efficent.

2006 Honda Ridgeline Prices and EPA Data
Downloads

Text only
2006_Ridgeline_Pricing.doc 48k






Model Transmission MSRP EPA City/Hwy.
Ridgeline RT 5-Speed Automatic $27,770 16/21
Ridgeline RTS
5-Speed Automatic $30,075 16/21
Ridgeline RTL 5-Speed Automatic $31,490 16/21
Ridgeline RTL
(with Moon-roof and XM Satellite Radio) 5-Speed Automatic $32,640 16/21
Ridgeline RTL
(with Moon-roof, XM Satellite Radio and Navigation System) 5-Speed Automatic $34,640 16/21

nissan, and toyota also have full size trucks just like the american brands

btw the chevy tahoe gets better milage than the honda ridgeline (;))

"Chevrolet Tahoe
The Chevy Tahoe grabs our Most Improved Player award. Dramatically redesigned for this year, the Tahoe sets new standards for comfort, handling and interior quiet for a large SUV. Its powerful V-8 imperceptibly switches off half its cylinders under cruising conditions, which earns it a 22-mpg EPA highway rating (a full-size SUV first)."

[gizmo1979]

26. Front page of Milwaukee Journal.Suv sales up

Janesville which makes large trucks and suv's is on overtime for the first time in over two years.So I guess they're not that uncool yet.

[Seabiscuit]

27. Boo hoo. Cry me a river.

And fuck all those Hummer drivers.

[mitchum]

28. Well, I guess there's been an upsurge in penis enhancement surgery

[LiberalGuy000]

29. Do you all hate minivans as well?

They're as big as medium-sized SUVs, they block the view from smaller cars, and their gas mileage is usually mediocre, yet I don't hear people expressing their hatred for minivans.

[Maddy McCall]

32. I rarely see a minivan with one person in it. Usually big families in them

[LiberalGuy000]

33. that doesn't address most people's complaints

So if a big family has an SUV, then it's acceptable. Is that what you're saying? Either way, both types of vehicles are large, heavy, get mediocre gas mileage, and obstruct the view of other drivers.

My point is that the hysteria surrounding SUVs is irrational.

[Solon]

40. OK, some things that are wrong...

First, I don't know what you define as a "Medium Sized" SUV, I mean, we all know the Hummer is a huge monstrosity, but Durangoes, Excursions, Sububans, etc are at least 3-6 inches taller than most Mini-Vans. If you were comparing them to full sized vans, I can see that, I drove one of those for work and even then, still having to look UP at an SUV you know the SUV is too damned big. Also, a trait among Mini-Vans are the windows, hence, much less of a view obstruction, unlike most of these SUVs, where the windows are just at the wrong angle, or are too dark to see through. Also, safety is a factor, for while Minivans did have problems in the beginning, they were solved, and as far as gas mileage, for mini-vans, its comparable to a large car, but not even a "Medium Sized" SUV can really compete in this, a Mini-Van is designed to get from one place to another with minimum fuss and JUST barely enough power to get up most hills. SUVs, the big ones, are overpowered, center of gravity is too high, and they can climb mountains and tumble down the other side, hence, horrible gas mileage and bad design overall. Now, to me, many of the smaller "SUVs" aren't SUVs at all, but souped up stationwagons, like the CR-V, as an example. These things are not much bigger than cars, and are designed JUST like freakin' stationwagons, but since the wagons aren't exactly "cool" they change the type and sell it as if its new.

[LiberalGuy000]

41. gas mileage

"as far as gas mileage, for mini-vans, its comparable to a large car, but not even a "Medium Sized" SUV can really compete in this, a Mini-Van is designed to get from one place to another with minimum fuss and JUST barely enough power to get up most hills."

In the area of fuel economy, the best minivans get the same gas mileage as mid-sized SUVs. In fact, the mid-sized hybrid SUVs get better fuel economy than minivans. This is from Consumer Reports:

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/best-in-cargo-capacity-fuel-economy-1205-fuel-economy-cargo-haul.htm

[Seabiscuit]

49. Those "mid-sized" SUV's that get comparable mileage are much

smaller than minivans and have about half the cargo space. They are not designed for large families.

My Toyota Sienna LE gets 19-22 mpg and has 70.5 cubic feet of cargo space and will seat 8 people. The Toyota Highlander SUV, although riding on oversized tires, gets only 19 mpg (the hybrid version, quite pricey, gets only 22 mpg) but only seats 5-6 people and has about half the cargo space (38 cubic feet) of the Sienna. Inside it seems quite cramped compared to the Sienna. It's really just an oversized station wagon on big tires.

The larger Toyota SUV, the Sequoia, averages just 16 mpg yet still has considerably less cargo space than the Sienna and only seats 6-7 despite being over 6" higher.

Both the Toyota Highlander SUV and the Toyota Sequoia SUV are considerably more expensive than the Toyota Sienna minivan, seat fewer people, have less cargo space, and are considerably less safe due to their high center of gravity than the Sienna minivan.

I only drive my minivan when I have the entire family with me. Any time I don't need it, I drive a Corolla subcompact which gets well over 30 mpg.

The moral of the story to me isn't just that SUV's are gas guzzlers. They're just a waste of money - there's more value and safety out there with sedans, station wagons, minivans, compacts and subcompacts.

[donco6]

34. Minivans aren't nearly, remotely, as big as a Hummer.

Apples and oranges.

[LiberalGuy000]

35. yeah, but...

A lot of folks say they hate SUVs across the board. For instance, would a hybrid Ford Escape be alright with them? How about a hybrid Toyota Highlander?

[donco6]

38. Can't really answer to that . . .

I was just commenting on the apples/oranges thing.

I drive a Volvo CX 70. If they hate me for it, tough shit.

[lakemonster11]

44. I drive an Ford Escape Hybrid, and I get irritated with the

knee-jerk anti-SUV response.

Hummers are one thing---they're designed for military use, not for civilians. But small and mid-sized SUVs?

Sure I don't get as good gas mileage as if I were driving a Prius, but I get better gas mileage than sports cars, trucks, other SUVs, and many larger (or especially older) cars. I also have plenty of space for passengers and "stuff"---useful since I carpool, move, and travel often. I can see why families would want mid-size SUVs (they're about the same size as the minivans I grew up with). I don't particularly like sharing the road with large and especially extra-large SUVs, but I know that people do have reasons for driving them (the ones I know usually have them so that they can haul trailers). The Prius is great (my bf drives one), but it's not for everyone and every use.

Do people respond the same way to sports cars, which get terrible mileage and are bought solely for the style and status they convey? How about those giant monster-truck style pickups? Or how about those big old cars that look like boats? My best friend drove one of those for years, and her gas mileage was actually frightening.

:shrug:

[susanna]

51. I have no problem with hybrid SUVs. n/t

[Lorien]

74. I don't either-but I do have a problem with the other vehicles he/ she

listed. If "peak oil" and runaway climate change are just around the corner and people are dying over oil rights, then those that buy frivolous, gas guzzling, polluting vanity vehicles aren't just anti-American; they're selfish anti-humanity pigs to boot. They deserve every dirty look and finger they get, imho.

[LeftyMom]

43. The big difference- car frames vs truck frames

Minivans are pretty much all car-based anymore, so thier more flexible bodies are designed to absorb force in an accident protecting both thier passengers and the other vehicle. All but the smallest SUVs are usually truck based and thier more rigid frames do not absorb force the same way in an accident, making them less safe for the passengers in both vehicles. Also SUVs are way behind the minivan class in basic safety features like shoulder belts and headrests in all positions, sufficient LATCH positions or tether anchors, etc.

Also, the marketing is different. Minivans are marketed to larger families who need the extra seating and space a minivan provides. SUVs are marketed to fearful people who want an agressively styled vehicle (yes, some people need the combination of passenger capacity and towing capability and I don't have a problem with that, but that's not the marketing strategy or core SUV market at all.)

Full-sized vans, on the other hand are built on truck frames. They generally ride like trucks and are geared for at least some towing. Like SUVs, they often lack basic safety features like shoulder belts and headrests. There isn't really a huge difference from a safety or enviornmental standpoint between a large van and a large SUV, for the most part. The one partial exception on the safety issues with large vans is Daimler Chrysler's Sprinter which does have headrests and shoulderbelts in all positions, but it's still got the truck-like ride, loud engine and crappy milage of a full-sized van. Also, it's butt ugly.

[billyskank]

65. I heard SUVs tend to have leaf-spring suspension at the rear

and drum brakes instead of disk brakes. Bottom line, they don't stop so good.

SUVs are for people who see accidents as inevitable and little they can do about them, so think they may as well be in the biggest thing they can afford.

[Pavulon]

66. Need/Want

You nailed the construction method.

I need to drive a f250 to tow big stuff and like diesel motors because I used to be a diesel mechanic. Better mileage than gas and more efficient.

However people should have the choice of what they drive. The aztec is the ugliest vehicle ever produced in the US. But people still buy it.

If someone chooses a durango over a sienna it is a personal choice, boxers vs briefs.

I just don't get the people who are flipping people off for their vehicle choice.

I hate people who drive mopeds on secondary highways but I don't flip them off.

[Dervill Crow]

69. Yes, if they're blocking my vision in a parking lot.

I understand the reasons why people drive minivans, though. I spent a good number of years driving a minivan and an 8-passenger station wagon, but as soon as my older kids started driving I downscaled.

I also am bugged when a parking lot is composed of both larger and "compact" size parking spaces, and the small cars are parked in the bigger spots. That forces those who need to drive large vehicles to squeeze into the compact spaces.

[lovuian]

30. I know people here in Texas had a shock when we ran out of

gas... it didn't matter HOW MUCH MONEY you had... it wasn't to be had...

and if we have anymore shocks they are going to be Ancient History...

[Earth_First]

31. fuh2.com

http://www.fuh2.com/index.php

[apple_ridge]

39. Uhhh.....they can't see you.

You need to get next to them or in front of them.

I flip off every hummer I see and I love seeing their reactions to it!

[EC]

42. I'd like to know why the hell the consultants for these companies

kept pushing SUV's and muscle cars - consultants are supposed to see COMING TRENDS not past trends...I got so mad a couple years back when Chrysler was showing bigger cars for future years with no change in milage...Besides having shares, my town relies on Chrysler being operational...so I get really mad when they pay these idiots to tell them what to produce for the coming years and they are dead wrong...

[Starbucks Anarchist]

52. Bob Shrum and Mary Cahill?

:shrug:

[Raine]

53. I had an Armada

just this passed week for three days, it was a loaner while my car was in the shop. The Armada is HUGE, the wheels are as BIG as those on a trailer truck and it had three rows seats, lots of overhead store, room for a DVD player and all kinds of extras. :o It was a handful to drive but I see the attraction cause it was really comfy inside and I felt like I was above it all kinda in my own private world.:-) Oh well it went back to agency and I'm back in my own vehicle :D but it was fun to experience it.

[Pavulon]

64. Reality Check

The H2 is mostly GM truck parts. Not a humvee at all.
It is not the same vehicle used by the military. I have driven the humvee in the service and maintained it. Why anyone who does not own a ranch and has money to burn would want one is beyond me. It is slow, expensive to repair, and unwieldy.

IMHO a f250 will do 80% of what it will without the insane cost of upkeep.

look for h2looks tough (would not link)

http://www.micom.net/oops/

Here is an accident involving an h2 and what looks like a dodge 3500 diesel. Looks like the dodge is in better shape.

There is no argument that large vehicles like pickups and suv's built on pickup frames will fare better in accidents with sedans. Mass is the major factor.

I drive a truck for my job and my wife drives a import sedan with lots of safety features. You have a better chance of steering out of an accident or stopping in time in the car. The 250 you are along for the ride.

IMHO it is a free country. If someone wants to drive an suv let them. Not a political topic.

[Bozita]

68. priceless!

[Lorien]

75. It certainly is a political topic.

It's an issue of personal responsibility-something the Democratic party has always stood for, along with good citizenship (unlike the Libertarians and republicans). Choices have consequences; those that drive Hummers drive like reckless idiots because they feel invincible and they're a danger on the road. Their cars guzzle gas and the emissions increase global warming. We're paying in blood and $$ for wars to secure oil rights, and we're paying in blood and $$ for hurricane disasters caused by stronger storms which have developed due to warmer sea temperatures. Every soul who claims to love their country ought to also truly consider how their personal choices impact America and Americans. We've had more than enough of the "I've got mine-screw you" repug mindset that has brought us to where we are today.

[Mountainman]

70. This holier than thou attitude of some DUers makes me as sick as

listening to wing nut radio. You people really suck! You are just like freepers only 180 degrees out of phase.

[Gormy Cuss]

76. Oh, baloney. It's about the price of gasoline.

They put up with the dirty looks for years without a problem. People who actually NEED vehicles that big are still buying them. Everyone else is looking for a way to save a few bucks on gas.