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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-19-06 09:18 PM
Original message
Iraqi police report details civilians' deaths at hands of U.S. troops

http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/news/world/14139070.htm

Iraqi police report details civilians' deaths at hands of U.S. troops

Knight Ridder Newspapers

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Iraqi police have accused American troops of executing 11 people, including a 75-year-old woman and a 6-month-old infant, in the aftermath of a raid last Wednesday on a house about 60 miles north of Baghdad.

The villagers were killed after American troops herded them into a single room of the house, according to a police document obtained by Knight Ridder Newspapers. The soldiers also burned three vehicles, killed the villagers' animals and blew up the house, the document said.

...

The report, which also contained brief descriptions of other events in the area, was compiled by the Joint Coordination Center in Tikrit, a regional security center set up with United States military assistance. An Iraqi police colonel signed the report, which was based on communications from local police.

Brig. Gen. Issa al-Juboori, who heads the center, said that his office assembled the report on Thursday and that it accurately reflects the direction of the current police investigation into the incident.





http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/news/world/14139070.htm

POLICE REPORT
This is a translation of the Iraqi police report obtained by Knight Ridder, including accounts of events not related to the Ishaqi raid.
In the name of God, the most merciful
This is the morning and afternoon events of 15/3/2006
1. Interior Ministry Operations:
All forces belonging to the Interior Ministry will go on 100 percent alert status starting Wednesday 15/3/2006 until 1000 hours Friday 17/3/2006.
2. Coordination Center of Beji
At 810 gunmen in a white vehicle, duck type (a reference to the local name for a Toyota model) kidnapped the child Mohamed (Badei Khaled) from Samaha school in Beji (map coordinates 617667).
3. Coordination Center of Dujail
At 730 a benzene truck burned near Gassem al Queisy fuel station after one of its tires caught fire. The incident burned the driver (Hamed Abdalilah) and he was transported to the hospital (map coordinates 263519).
4. Coordination Center of Balad
At 230 of 15/3/2006, according to the telegram (report) of the Ishaqi police directorate, American forces used helicopters to drop troops on the house of Faiz Harat Khalaf situated in the Abu Sifa village of the Ishaqi district. The American forces gathered the family members in one room and executed 11 people, including 5 children, 4 women and 2 men, then they bombed the house, burned three vehicles and killed their animals (map coordinates 098702).
They were:
Turkiya Muhammed Ali, 75 years
Faiza Harat Khalaf, 30 years
Faiz Harat Khalaf, 28 years
Um Ahmad, 23 years
Sumaya Abdulrazak, 22 years
Aziz Khalil Jarmoot, 22 years
Hawra Harat Khalaf, 5 years
Asma Yousef Maruf, 5 years
Osama Yousef Maruf, 3 years
Aisha Harat Khalaf, 3 years
Husam Harat Khalaf, 6 months
(Signed)
Staff Colonel
Fadhil Muhammed Khalaf
Assistant Chief of the Joint Coordination Center
3/16/2006

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Oversea Visitor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-19-06 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. If this is true
That America has lose more than the war in Iraq
I think the soul of the nation under threat.
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-19-06 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. I agree
and that makes sense when you consider who is in charge. Someone with no soul. Needs to be stopped from any further damage. asap .. impeach?
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cantstandbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-20-06 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #6
26. This is why the US does not want to honor international law and makes
agreements with nations to not hold us to the laws of the international court. It protects us from war crimes and out and out murder. And we pretend to be a civilized nation?
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cantstandbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-20-06 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #1
24. As a nation we have lost our soul since election 2000. n/t
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Sydnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-19-06 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
2. Sounds like deja vu all over again.
At 230 of 15/3/2006, according to the telegram (report) of the Ishaqi police directorate, American forces used helicopters to drop troops on the house of Faiz Harat Khalaf situated in the Abu Sifa village of the Ishaqi district. The American forces gathered the family members in one room and executed 11 people, including 5 children, 4 women and 2 men, then they bombed the house, burned three vehicles and killed their animals (map coordinates 098702).
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-19-06 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. The deja vu of My Lai
all over again. What makes anyone think that US GIs are incapable of killing innocent children ?
When people are trained to kill, hate and fear they become savage. Warriors from every country throughtout every war have committed atrocities.
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freefall Donating Member (617 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-20-06 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #15
28. Hearsay: "We wish we could kill them instead of taking them prisoner
because they smell bad." I heard this yesterday from the fellow standing next to me at a peace vigil. He heard it from a friend whose son is in Iraq now. The son had expressed to his father that he and his fellow soldiers would rather kill the Iraqis than take them prisoner because they smell so bad. The father of the GI found this very amusing according to my informant who was very upset by it.

Peace,

freefall
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oblivious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-20-06 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Even among so much evil, that stands out.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-19-06 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. In the name of allah(from report)
I will give the US Army the benefit of the doubt when it comes to executing a 6 month old.

My take;
Guys holed up in the house to shoot it out and got hit with hellfire missiles or some other air ordinance. Ordinance killed the shooters and innocents alike.

Or the guy killed his family or they were killed by fire he drew while shooting at us forces. Rounds from gunships punch holes in walls.
I met plenty of people willing to shoot someone, or even stick an knife in a guy, but not shoot a 6 month old in the head.

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PSPS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-19-06 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Yeah, what do eyewitnesses know anyway?
Besides, we have proof that the elusive WMD were hidden there too. The proof? Well, we couldn't find the WMD. That proves they were hiding it! So we just let one of bush's trigger-happy goons (support the troops!) in there to spray the place with bullets. That'll "learn 'em good!" It's not like they're, like, you know, human or anything.

HAVE THE WHEELS OF THIS FIASCO FALLEN OFF YET?

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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-19-06 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Sound and fury
did you actually say anything on topic?

This is posted all over english resistance websites.
Eyewitness statements are only as good as the witness. From tikrit..

Wake up. In kosovo is some one were to shoot at a vehicle from a house we would have shot back, with whatever we had. Rifles, fifty, apc cannon. the quickest way to stop from being shot at.

Human or not, shooting at armed men in the midst of your family is a bad idea. They will shoot back.

I will bet you an electronic 50 bucks that this account is bullshit. No US serviceman went into a room and shot women and children execution style.

Should we be there, nope. That does not make this account true.
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PSPS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-19-06 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Have you been on another planet for the last three years?
Our "glorious military" has committed innumerable atrocities on the innocent civilians of Iraq (support the troops!) Ever heard of Abu Ghraib? The raping and murdering of women and children there? Or the new and improved "Black Room?" Of course, there's the numerous reports of murdering the sick and wounded, at least two of which were filmed and broadcast on television. The list seems endless.

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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-20-06 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #14
21. Yes
the entire us military is a criminal force. We should all meet them at the airport and spit on them. Ever hear of the inmate/guard experiment with college students.
There will always be assholes in any group. Peacekeepers trading sex for food.
That does not mean the entire group is doing it. A squad of guys is not going to tolerate or cover for a person who shot a 6 month old. This is propaganda. That is why it is on every resistance website. And is timestamped before this press release.

Give me a freaking break.

You mean the person who was playing possum and got shot by the saw gunner after he moved his hands? And the guy in the alley who was wounded but still had his weapon?

Those guys should not be in Iraq, but if they are they are going be there they will shoot when shot at. Read up on prisoners on Iwo Jima and other "issues" with Japanese combatants. They did not take prisoners and at times we didn't.

There is no way a us gi put a rifle muzzle to an infants head and fired.
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freefall Donating Member (617 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-20-06 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #21
27. Actually the entire US military is a criminal force since it is an illegal
invasion and occupation.

Peace,

freefall
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-20-06 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #21
34. Did you ever hear of My Lai? (n/t
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ronnie624 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-20-06 04:35 AM
Response to Reply #8
20. Such nonsense.
" No US serviceman went into a room and shot women and children execution style."

Why not? Because everyone knows U.S. servicemen are inherently superior to the soldiers of other nations, and are thus more inclined to moral and ethical behavior?

I see no reason to doubt the account by the Iraqi police as it is consistent with other reports. It is also reflected in the historical documentation of the activities of occupying armies in general. But more importantly from my perspective, my youngest brother has been to both Iraq and Afghanistan and his experiences there have disturbed him greatly. He speaks of the deaths of many women and children.

You may rest assured that many civilians have been deliberately murdered by U.S. servicemen... or you can continue to live in your fantasy land where U.S. soldiers are incapable of committing atrocities...your choice.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-20-06 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. Superior
is not the issue. One is no one wants to get fucked over and go to jail. Two why would a guy shoot a 6 month old point blank. Chuck a grenade around a blind corner, maybe. But not execute. Even the retired folks I know were surprised by the Capitan who was tossed for threatening to shoot a prisoner and firing his weapon near the guys head. There is no tolerance for this shit now.

Point is no one is going to cover for a guy who shoots an infant. Women and children die in wars, that is different than a person shooting them at point blank. My bet is against it.

It is quite possible they died after we fired or dropped explosives into a building they were in.

After many years of driving het (trucks) in the ng I had the wonderful job of working in supply. I would not cover for my friends stealing because I did not want to get fucked.

You can rest assured that I will wait until someone other than an Iraqi from tikrik validates the action. If someone killed civilians obviously they should be dealt with.

Never mind the moral aspect. I met lots of assholes, but never anyone who would do or cover for this.
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-20-06 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. I can hope that you are right and that all of this is wrong -
maybe someday - the truth - regardless - will be known

FINDINGS AND RECOMMENDATIONS

I ON THE BASIS OF THE FOREGOING, THE FINDINGS OF THE INQUIRY ARE AS FOLLOWS:

A. Concerning Events Surrounding The Son My Operation of 16 - 19 March 1968

(1) During the period 16-19 March 1968, US Army troops of TF Barker, 11th Brigade, Americal Division, massacred a large number of noncombatants in two hamlets of Son My Village, Quang Ngai Province, Republic of Vietnam. The precise number of Vietnamese killed cannot be determined but was at least 175 and may exceed 400.

(2) The massacre occurred in conjunction with a combat operation which was intended to neutralize Son My Village as a logistical support base and staging area, and to destroy elements of an enemy battalion thought to be located in the Son My area.

(3) The massacre resulted primarily from the nature of the orders issued to persons in the chain of command within TF Barker.

(4) The task force commander's order and the associated intelligence estimate issued prior to the operation were embellished as they were disseminated through each lower level of command, and ultimately presented to the individual soldier a false and misleading picture of the Son My area as an armed enemy camp, largely devoid of civilian inhabitants.

(5) Prior to the incident, there had developed within certain elements of the 11th Brigade a permissive attitude toward the treatment and safeguarding of noncombatants which (contributed to the mistreatment of such persons during the Son Ply Operation.

(6) The permissive attitude in the treatment of Vietnamese was, on 16-19 March 1968, exemplified by an almost total disregard for the lives and property of the civilian population of Son My Village on the part of commanders and key staff officers of TF Barker.

(7) On 16 March, soldiers at the squad and platoon level, within some elements of TF Barker, murdered noncombatants while under the supervision and control of their immediate superiors.

(8) A part of the crimes visited on the inhabitants of Son My Village included individual and group acts Of murder, rape, sodomy, maiming, and assault on noncombatants and the mistreatment and killing of detainees. They further included the killing of livestock, destruction of crops, closing of wells, and the burning of dwellings within several subhamlets.

...more...
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-19-06 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. This is being reported in a mainstream American source, though
That makes me wonder whether someone isn't trying to "get out in front of bad news", as the spinmeisters say.
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Terran1212 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-19-06 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Everything written in the Muslim world starts with that
Get some culture!
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-19-06 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. No
it does not. I had an account in turkey, spent many months there over 2 years. Not all press releases start with "that".

It was sarcasm, it is usually used in "conservative" states like the magic kingdom or iran.
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phusion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-20-06 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #9
31. that wasn't a press release
it was a translated police report.
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Catrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-19-06 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
16. I've seen enough pictures of dead Iraqi children not to ask anymore
how they died. Does it really matter? Whether it happened the way you are surmising, or the way it is recorded in the report, a family is dead, a baby, two five year olds and other relatives, mother, father, grandfather. And they were killed, along with hundreds of thousands (according to the latest reports) of their fellow countrymen, women and children, by invading forces who don't belong there. Each death is a crime. These people were no threat to this country, or to any of the other 'coalition' countries who joined in the madness.

'I met plenty of people willing to shoot someone, or even stick a knife in a guy, but not shoot a six month old in the head'. I'm happy to say I don't know anyone like that, and hope I never do. And as far as I'm concerned, killing anyone, shooting anyone in the head for no reason (we don't belong there!! they did not attack us) baby or adult, is equally wrong. You don't get kudus for killing everyone BUT the baby!

But I blame this cowardly, greedy, administration for every death ~ every incident of torture, every maimed Iraqi, every deformed baby born for who knows how far into the future. This war is criminal, this is just one more incident that never should have happened and wouldn't have if we were not there ~ as far as guys shooting at invading forces, what would you do if invaders were here in this country?

It's madness ~ insanity ~ my only consolation is that I never supported it ~ I would hate to have to say that I did ~

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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-20-06 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #3
18. well, there are the autopsy reports
Edited on Mon Mar-20-06 12:59 AM by Minstrel Boy
of everyone having died with a bullet wound to the head. There are the spent shells of US ammo found in the rubble. There are the pictures of the dead children.

But US troops would never do such a thing.

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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #3
42. U. S. Army has about as much credibility...
as Bush himself, probably less. So why should we believe them over Iraqi eyewitness accounts? Really give me a reason to believe the same military that is so righteous that they rape women and children in front of POWs in Abu Graib.
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Brilligator Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #3
45. I think things have changed.
"I met plenty of people willing to shoot someone, or even stick an knife in a guy, but not shoot a 6 month old in the head."

You've seen the video of the US Helicopter that flew up to a disabled US jeep that had children playing on or near it (among others), surveyed the situation and then launched a missile into it, blowing them all to pieces?

You've heard the testimonials of ex-soldiers?

I think the soldiers are being conditioned now to a definition of "collateral dammage" that is way broader than it used to be (to put it mildly)
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HuffleClaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-19-06 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
10. the only odd thing about this tragic tale is that we learned about it
and that the iraqi police had the cojones to make it a matter of record. of course, now what will probably happen is 'fadhil muhammed khalaf' will be arrested on 'suspicions of being a saddamist/terrorist' in a cheap coverup attempt. another strange detail is this part: "An official account of the raid provided Sunday by the military also did not mention the unit involved by name." now, WHY would they feel the need to keep that quiet i wonder?
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-19-06 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
11. Is this the same incident as Haditha? Looks like another, too close
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x197942
Link for the Haditha report. This is getting to be too much. These poor people. These poor militry that have to figure out how to fit back into society when they return.
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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-19-06 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. different, but at the surface it seems to have many similarities...
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-19-06 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
13. Our anti-abortion soldiers have no problem murdering a 6-month old infant
Nothing like murderous pro-lifers!
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ninkasi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-20-06 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
17. Under the most incompetent of presidents
This country is marching down the road to hell. Chimp has unleashed the power of the U.S. government to destroy innocent people in a country which did not in any way threaten us. This road is one which Dubya was eager to have other people travel, to suffer and die, so that he could be a "war president." It is beyond disgraceful that this overwhelmingly flawed person should be able to command the greatest military in the history of the world, in order to satisfy his vanity.

I am ashamed and appalled that our country has been forced to travel this path. Whether censure or impeachment, we need to get this sociopath out of power, and begin to mend our alliances with other nations, before it's too late I am afraid that the sins committed in our names will haunt our country for decades to come.
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donkeyotay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #17
47. Yes, the commander in chief has set the tone
One of "whatever it takes" in this crusade against those who attacked us on 911. Watched C-Span yesterday, GWU doing a presentation on Guantanamo and torture. Someone said that the chain of command means that superiors are always responsible for how those under them behave. It seems our commander has brought severe moral rot to the country he leads.

Impeach.
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-20-06 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
19. they should hang for this!!!!
:grr: :mad: this is just like vietnam!
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-20-06 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. Everyone
wants this to be vietnam. It is a poor analogy any way. In ways this is worse.

It is not the same. It is something worth paying attention to and watching. Put your rope up and wait for some facts to come out.

From a cursory read a shot from a m4 or m16 at close range would not leave a gaping head wound on an infant. It would leave nothing. same with a m9.

This article smells funny.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-20-06 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. "This article smells funny."
That's death.

From Chris Floyd, yesterday:



We know from photographic evidence that the corpses of two men, four shrouded figures (women, according to the villagers), and five children – all of them apparently under the age of five, one as young as seven months – were pulled from the rubble of the house and laid out for burial beneath the bright, blank desert sky. We know that an Associated Press reporter on the scene saw the ruined house, and a photographer for Agence France Presse took the pictures of the bodies.

We know that two Iraqi police officials, Major Ali Ahmed and Colonel Farouq Hussein – both employed by the U.S.-backed Iraqi government – told Reuters that the 11 occupants of the house, including the five children, had been bound and shot in the head before the house was blown up. We know that the U.S.-backed Iraqi police told Reuters that an American helicopter landed on the roof in the early hours of the morning, then the house was blown up, and then the victims were discovered. We know that the U.S.-backed Iraqi police said that an autopsy performed on the bodies found that "all the victims had gunshot wounds to the head." We know that the U.S.-backed Iraqi police said they found "spent American-issue cartridges in the rubble."

We know that Ahmed Khalaf, brother of house's owner, told AP that nine of the victims were family members and two were visitors, adding, "the killed family was not part of the resistance, they were women and children. The Americans have promised us a better life, but we get only death."

...

We know that the only reason that this dead baby has his arm frozen to his lifeless face is that three years ago this week, George W. Bush gave the order to begin the unprovoked, unjust and unnecessary invasion of Iraq. He hasn't fired a single shot or launched a single missile; he hasn't tortured or killed any prisoners; he hasn't kidnapped or beheaded civilians or planted bombs along roadsides, in mosques or marketplaces. Yet every single atrocity of the war – on both sides – and every single death caused by the war, and every act of religious repression perpetrated by the extremist sects empowered by the war, is the direct result of the decision made by George W. Bush three years ago. Nothing he says can change this fact; nothing he does, or causes to be done, for good or ill, can wash the blood of these children – and the tens of thousands of other innocent civilians killed in the war – from his hands.

And anyone who knows these facts, who sees these facts, and fails to cry out against them – if only in your own heart – will be forever tainted by this same blood.

http://www.chris-floyd.com/index.php
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Don Claybrook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-20-06 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #23
32. You've spent many posts trying to refute eyewitness accounts
Why is that?

So you were in the Army. So what. That in no way gives you inside information on what actually happened at this house. You say US soldiers wouldn't do such a thing. But they have, on multiple occasions. You even burned a few cycles talking about how a few bad apples don't render the entire army bad apples. That is evident; no need to waste time on it. However, it is worth pointing out to you that it would only take a single bad soldier to kill everyone in that room.

You weren't there and I wasn't there. But I'll believe the eyewitness accounts until someone comes forth with something rational to dispute the account. You seem to want to convince people that this story is not true because of feelings you have, because of theft you've seen in a supply room. I hope you'll understand that this is a tough pill for most of us to swallow, being based entirely on...nothing of substance.

Thank you.

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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-20-06 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. No I don't believe
it because it is hype. There is NO WAY that autopsies could have been done by now to determine how and who killed these peoples.

None of it points to a real conclusion. I did have the joy of driving a truck around the beautiful former Yugoslavia. People were nice enough to not shoot at us at that time. However if they did the response is pretty much the same. Shoot the building and call in air or arty to blow the shit out of it.

Most people have already drawn the conclusion that this is real. I can get 5 eye witnesses to tell you they all banged paris hilton yesterday.

It may only take one guy to kill a room full of people, but it would take 4 or 5 other guys to cover up for him. That is the issue, would you cover up for a guy who shot an infant.b
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Brilligator Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #36
44. It's more than 4 or 5 random witnesses
This was an official police report? I think you're deliberately minimizing the evidence.

Furthermore, if any of your hypothetical alternate stories happened why would the military make up such a clearly false report? "The military's initial claim that the civilians died in a roadside blast was disproved by an earlier investigation."

This one's not looking good. I like to give these guys the benefit of the doubt too but it's getting to be almost impossible in this case.
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Brilligator Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #23
43. What about sidearms?
And in order to doubt that many eyewitnesses you need a motive. What's the motive for those eyewitnesses to lie?

If it really was an al Qaeda person who shot all those people, why wouldn't they mention that? You don't think the entire town is al Qaeda do you? Maybe all of Iraq is at this point?
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oblivious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-20-06 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
33. Follow-up story by Iraqirabita with interviews - WARNING: Horrific photos
The Killing of an Entire Iraq Family by the US Forces of Occupation

...The family neighbour Mohammed Almajma’ey describes the details of this crime as his tears fell. ‘At 1.30pm, the US occupation troops backed by helicopters attacked the family residence of Fa’is Harat, a teacher at the local primary school. After securing the family home, handcuffing its residents and subjecting them to beating; and controlling the surrounding residential area, the US occupation troops executed all family members which were Fa’is Harat himself, his wife, his three children, his sister along with her three children, his father, and female relative’, he went on to clarify that ‘the children were aged between 2 months and 6 years’.

http://www.iraqirabita.org/english/index.php?do=article&id=596
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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-20-06 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Those are horrific, but need to be seen.
Thank you for sharing... peace.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-20-06 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. BTW (warning links/pictures)
Edited on Mon Mar-20-06 06:37 PM by Pavulon
That child does not have a close range wound from any rifle or handgun in the us arsenal.

My wife, a surgeon, noticed there is no peening. When you get shot the impact bevels in the entry wound.



http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=http://www.solids.caltech.edu/~mota/caltech.html&h=212&w=380&sz=17&tbnid=Qv1PhqxRLyWNDM:&tbnh=66&tbnw=119&hl=en&start=34&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgunshot%2Bwound%26start%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26safe%3Doff%26rls%3DGGLG,GGLG:2005-20,GGLG:en%26sa%3DN

A rifle round would cause catastrophic damage at close range. Anyone who has fired a rifle at a jug of water knows the damage a rifle causes.

Wife says his injury looks like a rifle or shotgun


That picture of the child looks like trauma caused by slow or moderate speed object(s). Roof collapsing fragmentation from a grenade or bomb(my guess) That is, however, not caused by an m-16

This sounds like the Jenin massacre to me.
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Brilligator Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #37
46. "from a grenade or bomb(my guess)"???
Wow. That's quite a grenade that can neatly place one piece of shrapnel in each person's forehead.

I can understand your desire to not believe this happened, but you're really stretching.
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Englander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 06:07 AM
Response to Original message
38. Iraqi police claim US troops executed family
· Women and children shot in raid, says official report
· Marines accused after 15 died in separate incident

Julian Borger in Washington
Tuesday March 21, 2006
The Guardian

Iraqi police have accused American soldiers of executing 11 Iraqi civilians, including four children and a six-month-old baby, in a raid on Wednesday near the city of Balad, it was reported yesterday.

The allegations are contained in an Iraqi police report on the killings, obtained and published by the Knight Ridder news agency. The report emerged at a time when a US navy criminal investigation is under way into a previous incident, in November, in which marines are accused of killing 15 Iraqi civilians in Haditha in reprisal for a bomb attack on a US patrol.

Last week's incident in the village of Abu Sifa, near Balad, stand out because of the seriousness of the accusations and the fact that they appear on an official police report signed by Iraqi officers.

After listing other incidents in the area, the report for March 15 states: "American forces used helicopters to drop troops on the house of Faiz Harat Khalaf situated in the Abu Sifa village of the Ishaqi district. The American forces gathered the family members in one room and executed 11 people, including five children, four women and two men, then they bombed the house, burned three vehicles and killed their animals." Among victims the report lists two five-year-old children, two three-year-olds and a six-month-old baby.

The US military say that the deaths occurred when US troops raided a house in pursuit of an al-Qaida suspect and that only four people were killed. Major Tim Keefe, a US military spokesman in Baghdad said: "A battle damage assessment, the initial reports, said that what they saw were four people killed - a woman and two children and an enemy - and they detained an enemy."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1735748,00.html
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Fluffdaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
39. Iraqi police claim US troops executed family
This story is beginning to appear in the MSM

"Iraqi police claim US troops executed family

· Women and children shot in raid, says official report
· Marines accused after 15 died in separate incident

Julian Borger in Washington
Tuesday March 21, 2006
The Guardian


Iraqi police have accused American soldiers of executing 11 Iraqi civilians, including four children and a six-month-old baby, in a raid on Wednesday near the city of Balad, it was reported yesterday.
The allegations are contained in an Iraqi police report on the killings, obtained and published by the Knight Ridder news agency. The report emerged at a time when a US navy criminal investigation is under way into a previous incident, in November, in which marines are accused of killing 15 Iraqi civilians in Haditha in reprisal for a bomb attack on a US patrol.

Last week's incident in the village of Abu Sifa, near Balad, stand out because of the seriousness of the accusations and the fact that they appear on an official police report signed by Iraqi officers."

Read rest of story at link below
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1735748,00.html

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Fluffdaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. Sorry about that Mods
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 08:19 AM
Response to Original message
40. US military probes Iraq killings (BBC)
Edited on Tue Mar-21-06 08:20 AM by Canuckistanian
US military investigators have flown to Iraq to study reports that marines shot dead at least 15 civilians, including seven women and three children.

The incident is said to have happened in Haditha on 19 November 2005.

The military's initial claim that the civilians died in a roadside blast was disproved by an earlier investigation.

Investigators will now ask if the civilians died in crossfire or were targeted deliberately in a potential war crime.

Iraqis often accuse US troops fighting insurgents of committing war crimes.

Local residents in Haditha say the marines went on the rampage after one of their number was killed in a roadside blast and another two were injured.

They say the soldiers began shooting dead the inhabitants of nearby homes and others from the area.

'Collateral damage'
A military report at the time had said insurgents opened fire from all directions after the roadside explosion and the marines responded, killing eight fighters.

In the report, the deaths of 15 civilians were blamed on the initial blast.

Locals offered a different version of events, and the case was taken up by US news weekly, Time.

Time reporter Bobby Ghosh told the BBC that a videotape, given to the magazine by an Iraqi human rights group, had shown the civilians "could not have been killed by a roadside bomb".

"Their bodies were riddled with bullets," he said. "There was evidence there had been gunfire inside their homes, there were blood spatters inside their homes."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4827424.stm
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november3rd Donating Member (653 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-21-06 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
48. Negroponte
This has his fingerprints on it.

Even though he's ensconced in some intelligence fortress outside of washington right now, this is the type of outfit he sets in motion when he is sent as ambassador to places like Iraq and El Salvador.

Maybe they weren't US soldiers, maybe they were "contractors."
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