N.Korean defector says disabled newborns are killed

[seriousstan]

SEOUL (Reuters) - North Korea has no people with physical disabilities because they are killed almost as soon as they are born, a physician who defected from the communist state said on Wednesday.

Ri Kwang-chol, who fled to the South last year, told a forum of rights activists that the practice of killing newborns was widespread but denied he himself took part in it.

"There are no people with physical defects in North Korea," Ri told members of the New Right Union, which groups local activists and North Korean refugees.

He said babies born with physical disabilities were killed in infancy in hospitals or in homes and were quickly buried.

http://reuters.myway.com/article/20060322/2006-03-22T123122Z_01_SEO27580_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-KOREA-NORTH-RIGHTS-DC.html

[saigon68]

1. They are thrown from their incubators and STOMPED to death

In the name of Jesus we must invade

[LynnTheDem]

7. And then massed at the Saudi border. Colin Powell has satt photos.

Must invade & kill kill kill!

Amen!

[jwirr]

12. Wasn't that the accusation made against Saddam before the War?

[saigon68]

17. YES YOU WIN THE PRIZE

IT WAS ALL BOGUS BULLSHIT INVENTED BY BUSH 1 and COLON BOWEL

[Harald Ragnarsson]

2. That's a tough one

When you have a massive population and not enough food to feed them all already, like the case in N Korea, you can understand where they are coming from, even when you don't agree with it. In a nation of starving peasants, who is going to take care of these unfortunates? It actually might be the more humane thing to do rather than have them suffer and be deprived their whole lives.

Also, I don't think we can take any high moral tone on this one, given our own country's practices.

Edit: with the reports of cannabilism coming out of N Korea for years now, maybe we should be sending them food to help with these problems instead of judging them.

[robcon]

8. I disagree.

"When you have a massive population and not enough food to feed them all already, like the case in N Korea, you can understand where they are coming from, even when you don't agree with it."

No. I don't "understand where they are coming from." This is Nazism at its worst.

[Harald Ragnarsson]

18. Well, get ready, because it's coming here too

The Schiavo case and others aren't really about a "right to die". It's setting a precedent that life can be terminated when it has been determined to not have "quality". Further down the road I can see it progressing into infanticide of what they would call useless eaters and even people that won't conform. It's called Eugenics and I think people would be surprised at who all has been behind this movement.

So, yes, when your resources are limited you do have to make tough choices. It's whether you embrace it and commit these acts or realize the problem and take measures to produce the needed resources is what makes you a Nazi or not.

[Ben Ceremos]

29. Merciful euthanasia

is another term for it. Your absolutist judgment serves you poorly and shows you haven't thought this through. There are numerous reasons for such a practice. The harsh reality of economic warfare leads to this sort of thing. Send them food, support the North Korean people and keep your immature moral constructs to yourself. Intolerance for others' plight is a typical reaction of someone who hasn't considered the actual situation, just their own moral "superiority". :eyes:

[ButterflyBlood]

32. Except the N Korean government is the whole reason they have starvation!

Once again, why doesn't this happen in S Korea? Maybe if N Korea didn't run itself as a totalitarian personality cult that spends over 20% of its GNP on the military and the entire economy is based around nothing but Kim Jong-Il and the massive military complex, they wouldn't have these problems. I'm not going to absolve a government for doing something this horrific, over a problem that THEY are solely responsible for.

[laheina]

13. They do get food aid.

It is appropriated and sold on the black market by those who don't need it. That makes this practice even more despicable.

[ButterflyBlood]

24. Gee, and why do you think they have so much starvation unlike S Korea?

Maybe if the country was ran by someone with an ounce of sanity none of this would even be an issue. I'm not going to excuse the government's despicable policies to deal with the problems that are completely their fault.

[AngryAmish]

3. This is worse than killing millions in Iraq?

[Terra Terra]

10. Must it be worse for us to condemn the practice?

Using that logic we can excuse virtually any crime. A woman is raped? No big deal, it's only one person and it's not worse than killing millions in Iraq. Someone is murdered in a robbery? Same deal, it's only one person, but millions were killed elsewhere.

[laheina]

16. Hi Terra Terra!!

Welcome to DU :hi:

[ButterflyBlood]

27. Thanks for your common sense

Unofrtunately, some folks here seem to have the idea the invasion of Iraq somehow excuses every other bad thing that others do in the world.

Muslims rioting over some stupid cartoons? Don't complain, it's not as bad as invading Iraq.

Mugabe starving Zimbabwe to death? You can't complain because Bush invaded Iraq.

I don't follow the logic, but whenever someone says something bad about someone other than Bush here, many DUers will bring up the Iraq war implying that somehow excuses anyone except Bush. The fact is, the entire world does not revolve around Iraq.

[laheina]

15. Both are wrong.

It doesn't need to be an either/or better/worse kind of thing. War is wrong. Killing defenseless babies is wrong.

There is so much going on in the world that is wrong. It makes a person feel powerless.

[ButterflyBlood]

25. Well since invading Iraq wasn't as bad as the Holocaust

I guess we shouldn't condemn that either.

Hell, should we even condemn the Holocaust? Genghis Kahn carried out genocides that probably killed more people.

If something is wrong, it's wrong and should be condemned, regardless of things that are worse.

[UpInArms]

4. I wonder if Craig Fuller is involved in this NK story?

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/3589/us-iraq-lie.html

Every big media event needs what journalist and flacks alike refer to as "the hook." An ideal hook becomes the central element of a story that makes it newsworthy, evokes a strong emotional response, and sticks in the memory. In the case of the Gulf War, the "hook" was invented by Hill & Knowlton. In style, substance and mode of delivery, it bore an uncanny resemblance to England's World War I hearings that accused German soldiers of killing babies.

On October 10, 1990, the Congressional Human Rights Caucus held a hearing on Capitol Hill which provided the first opportunity for formal presentations of Iraqi human rights violations. Outwardly, the hearing resembled an official congressional proceeding, but appearances were deceiving. In reality, the Human Rights Caucus, chaired by California Democrat Tom Lantos and Illinois Republican John Porter, was simply an association of politicians. Lantos and Porter were co-chairs of the Congressional Human Rights Foundation, a legally separate entity that occupied free office space valued at $3,000 a year in Hill & Knowlton's Washington, DC office. Notwithstanding its congressional trappings, the Congressional Human Rights Caucus served as another Hill & Knowlton front group, which -- like all front groups -- used a noble-sounding name to disguise its true purpose.3

<snip>

In fact, the most emotionally moving testimony on October 10 came from a 15-year-old Kuwaiti girl, known only by her first name of Nayirah. According to the Caucus, Nayirah's full name was being kept confidential to prevent Iraqi reprisals against her family in occupied Kuwait. Sobbing, she described what she had seen with her own eyes in a hospital in Kuwait City. Her written testimony was passed out in a media kit prepared by Citizens for a Free Kuwait. "I volunteered at the al-Addan hospital," Nayirah said. "While I was there, I saw the Iraqi soldiers come into the hospital with guns, and go into the room where . . . babies were in incubators. They took the babies out of the incubators, took the incubators, and left the babies on the cold floor to die."6

<snip>

However, it was later discovered that the girl was in fact the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador to the United States. It turns out that Lauri Fitz-Pegado had concealed Naira's real identity. Since then, reputable human rights organizations and journalists have concluded that the baby incubator story was an outright fabrication. Every study commissioned by the Kuwaiti government could not produce a shred of evidence that the ambassador's daughter had been back in occupied Kuwait to do volunteer work in a hospital. It was a total fabrication.

[sinkingfeeling]

5. Deja vu? Think we've heard this one before only it was taking place in

the Middle East.

[jbonkowski]

6. Any story out of NK

without documentation has to be taken with a grain of salt.

jim

[Vogon_Glory]

9. Documentation WOULD Be Nice, But

Documentation WOULD be nice, but I think that most of us can agree that the current North Korean regime is ugly to the bone.

[Radio_Guy]

19. I don't know

Somehow this smells of Bush propaganda. It is quite coonvenient that this allegedly occurs in an "axis of evil" country.

[ButterflyBlood]

26. Do you really think North Korea is a wonderful paradise?

Geez. I agree this needs more confirmation before it's taken as fact, but to immediately throw out and disbelieve anything negative we hear about an "axis of evil" country is just as stupid as automatically believing everything we here. The fact is North Korea was a despotic hellhole long before Bush made that speech, and it didn't magically change right after that.

[ronnie624]

28. No one has said North Korea is a "wonderful paradise"

Those are your words. Judging by your posts on this thread you have already swallowed this story hook line and sinker. The skeptics are merely saying one should exercise caution when interpreting an article such as this one.

Do not allow the corporate media to manipulate you emotionally. Do not allow them to define your world view. This is how they (the corporate political power nexus) manufacture consent for their filthy wars and slaughter, by appealing to tribal instincts such as racist fear and contempt. Nothing whips up the fear and loathing of another nation of people quite like the claim that they systematically murder the weaker members of their society.

This story may very well turn out to be true but it just has the ring of primitive propaganda. I have known many people from all over Asia including Koreans and I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

[ButterflyBlood]

31. Like I said, to simply write off any news from the media as propaganda

is just as silly as believing everything it says.

Here's a question though: Why invade North Korea? There's no oil there. In fact, there's basically nothing of value there at all. The place is just a desolate wasteland, an economic black hole. Where's the benefit to anyone from the massive losses in fighting Kim Jon-Il's million man army to take over a small strip of mud and rocks near the South China Sea?

The real things of benefit in the area are the US business interests in S Korea, threatened if the US were to attack. And of course this wouldn't do too well for relations with China, which wouldn't play well for US business either.

This is a case where imperialism has no benefit.

[ronnie624]

35. Who said anything about invading North Korea?

The motives behind disseminating propaganda can be ideological. The reason for convincing U.S. Americans that we were in constant danger of being attacked by the Soviet Union was of course to support a $10 trillion gravy train for the arms industry. Since the end of the so called cold war declassified government documents have revealed that the Soviet Union was no where near the threat we were led to believe they were.

The elites who run our country have many reasons for whipping up fear and hatred of other nations and rarely if ever do those reasons have anything to do with benefiting the American people. In fact their propaganda seems to always benefit politicians and corporate executives the most.

Sadly, for many the content of the article in the OP offers reinforcement for their racist beliefs in which case no amount of reasoned argument is likely to change their point of view.

[Terra Terra]

33. This report is but one of a litany that has emerged from NK

I suggest you visit Human Rights Watch's website or Amnesty International's website and read the reports from North Korean defectors. Neither of these organizations can be accused of being corporate media propagandists, and there are numerous accounts from both organizations that detail horrendous human rights abuses by the NK regime committed against its own people. At some point these reports become so numerous that they transcend from mere anecdotal evidence to fact. But again, don't take my word for it, read it for yourself at the above-mentioned sources.

[ronnie624]

36. I suggest you focus on the activities of your own government.

There are also numerous accounts that detail horrendous human rights abuses by the U.S. regime committed against the people of other nations. There is of course no need for them to transcend from anecdotal "evidence" because for many decades they have been clearly on display for all the world to see.

These atrocities don't get much attention from Amnesty International or Human Rights Watch but that is not surprising considering both of those organizations depend on corporate donations for their existence. Since the same corporations establish the policies and laws of our government through the quasi-legal bribery of our elected officials, the conflict of interest should be pretty obvious. I have little more than passing interest in the "reports" by AI and HRW.

[Terra Terra]

37. I can walk and chew gum at the same time

I can focus on more than one thing at a time. There are many threads devoted to rights abuses by the US gov't, however, that is not the topic of this particular thread. As long as you're offering suggestions on what I should focus on, if you care to comment on abuses by the US gov't I suggest you do so in one of those threads.

[ronnie624]

39. My suggestion

to focus on the activities by the U.S. government was meant to be applied to a much larger context beyond this thread. Those who are the quickest to dump on other countries, for whatever reason, rarely if ever seem concerned about atrocities committed by the U.S. as if violations committed by a particular government against its own people is somehow worse than slaughtering tens of thousands and making wretched the destinies of millions in other countries. I was merely stressing the importance of being aware of what our own government is doing. Citing U.S. human rights violations was done to stress the hypocrisy of thoroughly reporting abuses by N. Korea while ignoring far greater abuses by the United States. It was not I who referenced AI and HRW, but in fact you who did so, which opened an opportunity to question their veracity.

If you do not wish to discuss all aspects of a given topic, perhaps you would feel more comfortable posting on threads where your cherished notions are less likely to be challenged...or maybe you could refrain from responding to my posts (The ignore feature comes to mind.). It matters little to me.

[jwirr]

11. This does not surprise me. NK is a depressed nation with

big economic problems - that often leads to triage practices that threaten the most helpless. But do not expect *ss to care because he and his "christian" supporters are advocating the same practice when they support cuts to MA and foster care and other vital programs for the poor.

[progressivebydesign]

14. Pulled out of incubators?

How much are we paying defectors of the Axis of Evil these days??

[Ezlivin]

20. It's a preemptive cure!

I'll cancel my trip to get that "special surgery" to cure paralysis then.

Since I never saw one photograph showing a disabled North Korean I assumed that they had found the cure.

Would Bush have made it to preschool if he'd lived in North Korea?

[LynnTheDem]

23. "Would Bush have made it to preschool if he'd lived in North Korea?"

*SNORT*

:rofl:

[daleo]

21. This doesn't pass the common sense test

""There are no people with physical defects in North Korea," Ri told members of the New Right Union, which groups local activists and North Korean refugees.

He said babies born with physical disabilities were killed in infancy in hospitals or in homes and were quickly buried."

Even if this was true, it would hardly eliminate "people with physical defects", as these can be due to many causes long after birth e.g. injuries or developmental problems that occur during later maturation. The claim doesn't make sense, so it's probably a lie.

"Kim Young-sun is a survivor of the North's Yodok prison camp, notorious for its forced labor and life-sentences for people charged with conspiring against the Kim Jong-il leadership."

This sounds like Guantanamo Bay, notorious for its forced feeding and life sentences for people changed with conspiring against the Bush leadership.

[bluestateguy]

22. I can't concern myself with what goes on 10000 miles away

I'm sure North Korea is a hellish place to live and that the regime is despotic, but it's not our problem. If the North Korean people don't like it, then they can rise up and do something about it. I'll be right here on the couch wishing them the best of luck at that.

bluestateguy
the liberal neo-isolationist

[Ben Ceremos]

30. ...and imagine if

the majority supported Kim...wouldn't be much different than believing in bush/godking.

[AzDar]

34. Bush kills the disabled and elderly with his 'Medicare and Prescription

Drug Reform' right here at home...

[area51]

38. Well said.

Bush & his vermin administration like covert, instead of overt, killing of American citizens by stealing their tax dollars & denying them healthcare.