Afghan Christian convert may escape conviction due to 'insanity'

[Bucky]

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/article352973.ece

(Well, it beats hangin')


Afghan Christian convert may escape conviction due to 'insanity'
By Tom Coghlan in Kabul
Published: 23 March 2006

The trial of a man facing the death penalty for converting to Christianity might be dropped on the grounds of his "mental instability", officials have said, as Afghanistan provoked international criticism over the case.

<snip>

However, a spokesman for Afghanistan's Supreme Court, Wakil Omar, told journalists yesterday: "As far as I've noticed and been told, he might have a mental problem. If he is proved mentally ill, then he wouldn't be tried."


Hee-hee. Turning Christian will earn you an insanity plea with me too. But that said, the Afghans are being real asses about this.

[Warpy]

1. The Afghans have been on the main trade route between

Europe and China for millennia. One can hardly blame them for clinging to their last conversion. They're used to foreigners and foreign ideas and they're used to having to defend against those ideas. Yeah, I think they're wrong, but I do understand where they're coming from.

I think an insanity defense will work for anyone who violates their law and converts from Islam to Christianity.

[951-Riverside]

2. Hey Warpy I disagree with you views

and sure I think you're a little INSANE but I'm not going to KILL you over it. :sarcasm:

[ButterflyBlood]

3. Oh please

Past pressure from sides is no excuse to execute someone who converts religions out of their own free will. This is no different than if fundies here proposed laws to execute people who converted from Christianity to Islam.

[Warpy]

4. What part of "they're wrong" did you miss?

Just asking.

[ButterflyBlood]

5. I just saw the part afterwords

where you said you understand where they're coming from.

The only thing I can understand out of this is blind religious zealotry. Like I said, I wouldn't consider this any different than fundies here trying to execute converts from Christianity.

Another question, would you consider it understandable if they were to execute someone from professing atheism?

[Warpy]

6. I would consider it incredibly wrong.

Learning the history of the area and its people would prevent the militant atheist from making that mistake.

[ButterflyBlood]

7. Yes, people like that should just keep their mouths shut

Same thing with atheists and non-mainstream religious in the Deep South. They should know how they'd be taken if they were open about their beliefs. They just need to keep quiet. Same with homosexuals. :sarcasm:

[Warpy]

10. Um, we have free speech codified into the constitution, if

temporarily. They don't in Afghanistan. BIG difference, and all the "shoulds" and "oughts" in the world won't change the fact that it does make a huge difference.

Besides, don't you find it horribly rude to have proselytizers ASSume your beliefs are shit and try to shove their religions down your throat?

[ButterflyBlood]

11. Legal status doesn't change if something is right or wrong

If a law is wrong here, it's wrong in any other country. The fact that we have protections ensuring rights is a good thing, but it doesn't make such violations right elsewhere. After all, it's legal in many countries for the military and police to use torture. That doesn't make it any more right than the Bush regime illegally using torture.

And yes, I find it horribly rude. But I would never support making it illegal, or impose death on anyone for it. I've been proselytized by both Christians and Muslims at my school. I've simply told them I'm not interested in listening and moved on. As annoying and rude as those people were, I would not wish death upon any on them.

This guy wasn't even proselytizing for that matter. His conviction was imposed simply for his conversion.

[Warpy]

15. Well, go to Afghanistan, convert to Islam, try to become a citizen

(something I doubt is possible unless you marry a citizen, and probably not even then) and get elected to high office when the country is finally united (if it ever is) and work to change the laws you don't like.

Again, what part of the word "wrong" didn't you understand?

Oh, and by the way, they've decided he's insane, so he's off the hook for his conversion. Apparently, unlike Gee Dubya, they are loath to execute the insane.

[ButterflyBlood]

12. Oh yes, just out of curiosity...

Armenia is a Christian country right in the middle of a predominately Muslim area. They have been severely abused and kicked around by their Muslim neighbors for centuries, even had a genocide taken out on them once. I imagine they're fairly defensive about their religion too, but I have yet to hear of someone being sentenced to death for converting from it there.

Now if they were to pass such a law, would you "understand" their case there? Or is that somehow different?

[Warpy]

13. Again, slowly, look at my post carefully. See the word "wrong?"

Just asking.

[ButterflyBlood]

14. Yes, but you said it's understandable

I just want to know if this is "understandable" too.

Actually, I can understand why fundies here would want to execute anyone who converts from Christianity here, becuase they're disgusting, moronic, bigoted, religious zealots. And the same is true for their ilk of any religion, anywhere else in the world.

[Warpy]

16. Gee, I can understand where other people are coming from all the

time without feeling compelled to agree with them. Being empathetic toward other people can form the foundation for changing beliefs and behaviors.

Their country and their laws are the way they are because of centuries of attempted conquest. We're just the latest in a very long line. The Soviets were the ones who were before us, and communism the cult du jour.

Understanding this is the first step to demonstrating the type of empathy and respect that can change people. Pointing fingers and proselytizing are not.

[rodeodance]

8. well, it would be a way out of this mess for the Afgan (till the next case

[seriousstan]

9. I guess this is good news until you consider their treatment of the insane

[patdem]

17. I realize that empathy and understanding is a GOOD thing

I agree with you that understanding and empathy does not equate to acceptance of the behavior also. We empathize and understand the insurgency in Iraq but HATE that they are taking it out on innocent people and our soldiers. How anyone cannot understand that one can have empathy and revulsion at the same time probably lacks empathy or revulsion or both?

[GeorgeGist]

20. Do you understand your empathy and revulsion for Bush?

I hope so.

[plasticsundance]

18. Who first said it?

So many Christians and too few lions.

Oh c'mom, it's a joke. Don't you like the new and improved Afghanistan? Good thing we got rid of the bad old communists and Taliban in Afghanistan.

I guess this little brouhaha in Afghanistan validates France and Britain not allowing Muslims to wear their religious dress to school. <sigh>

[Inland]

19. Apparently, they read DU's Religion and Theology forum.

Religion is routinely diagnosed as mental illness there.

[Bucky]

21. I don't go where madness lies. Except for family reunions

But at least they have food.

[Divine Discontent]

24. exactly...

so should some of DU move over and live in Afg.? INTOLERANCE is INTOLERANCE regardless of who is perping it!

[DrGonzoLives]

22. Freedom is on the march!

n/t

[Divine Discontent]

23. oh ISN'T it?!

This is so disturbing in our WONDERFUL new ally in the war on terror, our beloved new democracy in Afghanistan a Christian has to claim INSANITY to get out of being murdered!

Man, if he had the guts (I hope I would), I would say, NO, I'm not insane, these are my beliefs, my choice does not hurt my country and saying I should be punished for my beliefs is telling the rest of the world to destroy those who would want to kill Christians for their beliefs", and FORCE Bushy boy to admit his plans to, obviously, "PROPHESY" (yeah, he said that yesterday instead of prosyletize) the Muslim world are going to meet a backlash, and do something immediately in the one country, I supppppose we had a reason to be in after 9/11. Although determining who harbored terrorists and taking out their camps, homes, and Osama would have been the better alternative a few weeks after 9/11, not many in the world would have argued with us THEN, but now, everyone hates the US. Thanks George, you screwup bumbling fool!

And God bless the man caught in the middle of a major political and religion based crisis.

[sarcasmo]

25. Maybe that explains what we have going on here in this country.

INSANITY