Carbon cloud over a green fuel (burning coal to make ethanol)

[quaoar]

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0323/p01s01-sten.html

An Iowa corn refinery, open since December, uses 300 tons of coal a day to make ethanol.

By Mark Clayton | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

Late last year in Goldfield, Iowa, a refinery began pumping out a stream of ethanol, which supporters call the clean, renewable fuel of the future.

There's just one twist: The plant is burning 300 tons of coal a day to turn corn into ethanol - the first US plant of its kind to use coal instead of cleaner natural gas.

An hour south of Goldfield, another coal-fired ethanol plant is under construction in Nevada, Iowa. At least three other such refineries are being built in Montana, North Dakota, and Minnesota.

The trend, which is expected to continue, has left even some ethanol boosters scratching their heads. Should coal become a standard for 30 to 40 ethanol plants under construction - and 150 others on the drawing boards - it would undermine the environmental reasoning for switching to ethanol in the first place, environmentalists say.

[Strelnikov_]

1. This Is An Example Of The Type Of Accounting That Will Be Obsolete

once the special period begins.

Burning coal to produce a liquid fuel with an EPR of 1 (corn ethanol) makes absolutely no sense when you could produce a liquid fuel with an EPR of 5 from the coal directly. Not to mention the incremental environmental impact.

Most studies indicate an EPR of 1 for corn ethanol from an energy standpoint, and 1.3 to 1.8 for corn ethanol once the value of coproducts are credited. Considering that 2/3rd’s of the energy consumed in corn ethanol production is in conversion (ethanol plant), this indicates opportunities for utilizing co-generation as the article notes or renewables (wind) for most of this process energy. This is why I view corn ethanol more as a valuable energy carrier than an energy source. Process corn for ethanol using an energy input from renewable energy, renewable energy is converted to a valuable liquid fuel, with most of the food value of the corn remaining for consumption.

The Nevada, IA plant noted in the article is located 4 mi. East of the Ames, IA coal fired municipal electric plant. With co-generation, the ethanol plant could have been located such that waste heat from the coal fired electric plant could have been utilized by the ethanol process. In addition, the Ames power plant burns local garbage, therefore waste material from the ethanol process could be burned (resource recovered, as they call it).

Another alternate is wind. Most of the corn belt and the high plains (potential switchgrass growing region) are reasonably close to areas that have good to excellent wind energy potential, most of which is essentially stranded. A major wind farm was just completed around 50 mi. to the NW of the plant site.

Once the crises arrives, ’energy balance’ will be the prime consideration in evaluating process feasibility.

[greenman3610]

5. what's an EPR?

[Strelnikov_]

6. Energy Profit Ratio

also known as EROEI (Energy Returned On Energy Invested).

The ratio of the energy needed to develop the energy 'source' (ex. barrel of ethanol) divided by the potential energy contained in the source.

An EPR of >1 indicates an energy source, <1 an energy sink.

We still need energy carriers, which is the way I view ethanol. The viability of ethanol as a 'renewable' resource depends on where the development energy input comes from.

[DUHandle]

13. Ignoring the obvious problems for a moment

Would nuclear waste be a viable source of heat for the process?

[truthisfreedom]

2. if they need heat, they should build giant solar reflectors.

sheesh.

[Coastie for Truth]

3. Chem E from "Whiskey Rebellion" Country

I am a Chemical Engineer from Country - and I have made my own beer, wine, and whiskey in the old fraternity house basement.

The problem is - they are following the "petroleum refinery" paradigm. That's to minimize your "residence time" and run at high temperatures and high pressures.

Nope. EtOH is a "living thing" - with saccharomyces cerevisiae yeast in it. So you have to treat it like the drug companies and breweries and vintners and distilleries do. Let that saccharomyces cerevisiae do its thing.

Check out Schuler and Kargi, Bioprocess Engineering-->

<http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/0130819085.01._BO2,204,203,200_PIlitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,32,-59_AA240_SH20_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg>

Our student chapter of the AIChE (American Institute of Chemical Engineers) used to take a field trip to a brewery and a distillery every semester.

That's Appalachian Chemical Engineering.

[HemiCuda]

7. alternative energy

Right now in Brazil, you can buy Flex Fuel cars from GM! Alcohol is about 1/2 the price of gas, and about 80% efficient. Link http://www.tierramerica.net/2003/0825/iacentos.shtml

If this NATION had REAL leadership, we would have all kinds of alternative energy. Everything from insulated window in new homes, to Solar Panels for hot water and Electrcity.

I help a friend of mine put 2 used solar panels on the roof. So much hot water, with tons to spare.

[DainBramaged]

9. Welcome, and what a great name

[DUHandle]

12. It that by

Big Ed Daddy Roth?

[buddysmellgood]

8. We need to move away from boiling off the water.

http://www.virent.com/

[Coastie for Truth]

14. In the biotech area (which is what fermentation is)

there is a lot of use of membrane technology (phoresis, dialysis) A two stage phoresis process is not out of the question.

[DUHandle]

11. Two Questions

If you don’t mind.

Could ethanol replace coal to reduce the “residence time” and would it be cost effective?

Same question as above, but replace gasoline ethanol blend for coal?

[Coastie for Truth]

15. Looking at the flow sheets real fast

from other EtOH processes -- the coal or natural gas is used to distill the "mash" (That's Appalachia coming out in me) or "broth". If you go a dialysis or phoresis process - no distillation.

[DUHandle]

16. Thank you

[ShockediSay]

4. I heard it takes more energy to produce than it saves

which fits right in with BushCo/Enron kind of accounting.

PS
&btw

why isn't the cost of Iraq counted into the budget deficit?

[DainBramaged]

10. It is so highly subsidized it isn't funny

And GM has more than a million "dual-fuel" vehicles on the road. Problem is there are like zero stations providing eth anywhere.

[HemiCuda]

17. Thanks for the Welcome!

I'm a MOPAR Man at heart.

Anyway, Brazil passed a law saying in 10 years all Gas Stations had to have an Alcohol Pump. This was back in the 1970s. So the result, they import a whole lot less oil today. Alcohol burns cleaner too.

[JesterCS]

18. correct me if im wrong

but in Argentina and Venezuela... they use the husk of sugarcane as a energy source for the conversion process.

and we cant figure out how to do it in a similiar fashion? Shows how mighty the US is lol. I was talking to my father the other day about making the process work with sugar beets. Since sugar beets will grow in less tropical areas.