Florida High School students to pick a major (proposal from Jeb Bush)

[DeepModem Mom]

CNN/AP: High School students to pick a major
Governor pushing for mandate which makes incoming freshmen declare
Thursday, March 23, 2006

TALLAHASSEE, Florida (AP) -- Lila and Andrew Zoghbi are bored five days a week in classes at Chiles High School.

It's not that they are slackers. In fact, they are honor students with high ambitions. Lila, 15, plans to be an engineer, and her brother, 17, wants to design video games. The problem, they say, is that school is not giving them the career preparation they want....

***

Students like the Zoghbis would get an education more tailored to their career plans under a proposal from Gov. Jeb Bush that education experts say would make Florida the first state to require incoming high school freshmen to declare a major, just like college students.

Bush said the plan would help prepare students better for the real world and reduce the dropout rate by making school more interesting. Last year, nearly 3 percent of Florida's 800,000 high school students dropped out....

***

Some educators support the plan, while others fear it will deprive students of a broad liberal arts education and put even more pressure on young people....

http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/03/23/highschool.majors.ap/index.html

[babylonsister]

1. I dunno. How many freshmen have a clue what they want

to major in at this age? Seems they'd encounter the same problems college freshmen have.

[ixion]

9. exactly... I didn't figure it out until I had been in college for 3 years,

and tried half-a-dozen majors.

[saigon68]

27. They can pick "GREETING AT WALMART"

But then again the seniors need these jobs to pay for their medicines and prescriptions

[JohnKleeb]

34. I still dunno what I want to do and I am a college freshman

I see the intention they have but you're right, and what you want to be changes form time to time, I went from wanting to be a criminologist as a freshman in high school to wanting to be a journalist the summer before I started community college, now I want to be a labor arbirator.

[meegbear]

2. My high school had a basic version of that ...

You could take "regular" classes, "business" classes or "college-prep" ones. You would tell your guidance counselor which type of classes you wanted and that was used in part to dictate which classes you were offered.

This sounds like a good idea - can't be Jeb's.

[Divernan]

6. My high school offered those 3 tracks back in the 50's

Don't most school districts offer magnet schools, and AP classes, and vo-tech high schools.

One of Jeb's brothers has some education business scam - he's probably got some plan ready to make $$$ off of Jeb's "new" idea.

[meegbear]

13. My city had a voc school as well ...

you could take a trade or just take regular classes.

Magnet schools were just starting to show up in MA after I graduated high school '83.

[snooper2]

19. I went to college half the day my senior year..

They had automotive techonlogy, robotics, telecomunications, and electrical engineering...it was good, instead of 2 years, you only had 1.5 left after high school to get your Associate Degree....

sounds like a good idea...agreed, in can't be Jeb's...

[Blue Diadem]

20. My highschool had that too. n/t

[mahatmakanejeeves]

3. West Germany

Whoops, I mean Germany, has for some time had an apprentice program for kids who wanted more of a job-oriented education than a liberal arts education at the high school. There could be advantages to this for some kids.

I think it's a good idea for everyone, not just kids, to have some sort of technical skill, possibly several. I'm not opposed to reading and writing too, of course.

This may not be a bad idea. As has been said, are you sure it came from a Bush?

[BushOut06]

11. Repugs have good ideas on occasion

Just don't ask Jeb to fund it.

[HereSince1628]

4. If we don't edumacate them we ain't gonna half to pay em eether.

We godda luck forwerd to the tym wehn thay needs to compete with wurkers in therd werld nashons.

[napi21]

5. I think Jack Cafferty said it perfectly yesterday.

I remember when I was a Freshman. I was more concerned with the acne on my face, making new friends, and losing my virginity. Thinking about what I wanted to do the rest of my life wasn't even in the picture!

Of course, I'm paraphrasing what Jack said, but he was right! 14 year olds haven't had enough exposure to life, the world, and even what opportunities MIGHT interest them. Heck, how many college students change majors SEVERAL TIMES before they finally settle on something they think they really want?

Jeb is nuts as usual!

[DeepModem Mom]

8. I think this is a horrid idea! A LIBERAL arts education, IMO...

a basic education, is one of the few things that have kept this country from going completely off the rails. We must teach children how to think, for themselves. Then they can learn to do a job, and also maybe be worthwhile citizens.

[patdem]

7. So now, instead of an 18 year old deciding the future it will be a 13 year

old? WOW...didn't we all have to write a dissertation of 'What I want to be when I grow up'?

I can see in jr. or sr. year having special programs for the gifted, or vocational type of programs, but for a CHILD to decide what he wants to be and then FORCING HIM into that for the rest of his life is just OUTRAGEOUS!

I do wish the English language had a pronoun that was genderless. I hate to have to write he/she his/her etc...Are't we smart enough to come up with a pronoun that is genderless? The Romans were.

[BushOut06]

10. Isn't that why high schools offer elective courses?

I have no problem with schools offering a variety of electives, and many high schools offer internships. But picking a major can be very difficult for a 18-yr old college freshman. Hell, I changed my major three times while I was in college. Imagine how much more difficult it would be for a 13-14yr old, coming right out of middle school. What happens if you get halfway through your high school major and realize you made a mistake, do you have to start over? In college, there is no definite timeline, you can go at your own pace. Not so with high school, how many people really want to be in high school into their 20s?

No, the solution is to offer elective courses geared towards a variety of trades and careers. Video game design, electronics, IT, journalism, etc. Of course, this means you have to fund them. This is what I love about the repugs - even whenever they do come up with an idea that might be decent, they sure as hell don't want to fund it. :shrug:

[Wickerman]

12. What next? Tax funded Christian schools for specific majors?

:think:

[Nevernose]

14. Great idea, goes well with Gardner's Theory of Multiple Intelligences

I've thought that this was a good idea for years. Not all kids are the same, so why should they all receive the same education? As long as certain minimums are set & met, why shouldn't a kid be able to get a high school diploma that focuses more on one area and less in another? Eduation is education, right?

Of course, if there's a member of the Bush family invovled, it'll probably be horribly screwed up, or, more likely, an excuse to send public money to "Christian" schools.

[progressivebydesign]

37. problem is that a 14 year old should NOT make decisions like that.

If you talked to anyone, what they thought they'd want to do fresh out of jr. high, and what they ultimately chose for themselves, were two different things.

[Coyote_Bandit]

15. Part of getting an education

is having the opportunity to explore different fields and interests and abilities. It would seem that this proposal would undermine that. Never mind the fact that it would require kids to make still more decisions having potentially very long term impact that those kids lack the real world context to make.

[Ian David]

16. You think any of them will pick "Lobbyist" or "Voting Machine Technician"

[wakeme2008]

17. There is ONLY one choice --- the FCAT testing major

That is becoming more and more the only thing they are teaching in schools is how to pass the FCAT test :grr:

[DeepModem Mom]

18. Excellent point! nt

[sleipnir]

21. Well, I got a high school degree in Arts and Communications.

Our public school school district began giving out degrees based on 7 areas of academic and career focus. I wanted to go into the arts, so I chose the Arts and Communications track. Each aspect required a different amount of classes, just like a college major. For instance, on my track one year of science was replaced with an extra year of an art class or literature class. I had to take three years of science, but not the four that was required previously. But, to prepare me for what I wanted to do, this made sense. I got an extra art class slot that would not have been available if I had to take Physics.

I think this is actually a pretty good idea, if it is broadly focused.

[woodsprite]

22. Our DE schools are already doing something like that.

I'm not too keen on my daughter doing that in High School. Actually, I guess it could be called more of a concentration, but you still don't get the cross-breadth exposure that you would ordinarily. I think it sucks! She's going into a magnate school for the arts and she will have to pick a subject to concentrate in (not necessarily arts related). Once she does that, 2/3rds of her elective courses for 3 yrs need to come from that subject area. That gives you one chance to change your mind if you don't like what you picked. I think it's too early to expect 9th graders to know what they want to do.

She's good in the arts, but she is also interested in and very good in math and science. Math falls under the "business" concentration, while science falls under either the "Health profession" or "Agricultural" concentrations.

[noonwitch]

23. It's an interesting proposal

We had two different tracts at my high school-college prep and vocational. There was some room for some crossover-my brother liked shop classes for fun, but was basically college prep.

I do think it's important to recognize at the high school level that not every kid is going to go to college, but they all need marketable skills beyond flipping burgers. Where I grew up, the voc kids, county-wide, could attend a skills center for half the day, where they could learn restaurant-level cooking skills, child care skills, auto shop, construction skills, etc. They need to be able to graduate and qualify for their certification at that time, so they can go right into working a job after graduation.

I would have loved to have majored in literature or history in high school, even though I planned to major in social work in college.

[rocktivity]

24. The only thing I don't like about it is the "required" part.

No one should be "forced" to make their life plan at the age of 15--look at all the people who change their majors in college, never mind high school! If you have a plan and want to take classes specializing in it, fine. Otherwise, let the kid see what's "out there" educationally.

:headbang:
rocknation

[NashVegas]

25. We Had Majors in My NYS High School

They weren't concentrated majors, though.

In order to get a Regents' Diploma, you had to take at least three years of Regents' level classes in either math, English, or science. But you didn't load up your whole day with supportive classes the way you do with a college major.

Overspecialized education is a horribly, horribly bad idea for a mobile society. It's what the Soviets did. You're turning a broad education into vocational training for the college bound, turning college into trade schools. You're separating teenagers into the various groups Aldous Huxley gave us, going beyond the worst of cliques.

But I guess it's one way to make sure the lower and middle-class college students stay in their places and don't have a chance to get into a manager's chair.

[HockeyMom]

32. I did that 40 years ago

for my Regents. Actually, I took 2 majors; Foreign Languages (Spanish and Latin), and Math, in addition to English, Social Studies, and Science, besides "Comparative Religions" (Catholic School). I decided at the time that I didn't want to go to college (at least not right after HS), so I took 2 years worth of Business Courses in my Senior year. Not easy, since I had to have special permission to give up Gym and lunch period and eat during class.

Six years later, while working as an Administrative Assistant, I went to college at night and still had all the required college prep courses, and was able to support myself with a day job.

Now in NYS, ALL kids are required to get Regents Diplomas (State tests and issued), even majority of Special Ed students. Yes, they have to declare a "major".

For all the "complaints", NYS Regents seems to have been decades ahead of the curve.

[NashVegas]

26. * What's Missing From This List of Potential Majors ? *

There's a glaring omission (or two - they're intertwined) in offered courses of study, that I think backs up my above statement that about the real purpose for this kind of program.

Under Florida's plan, high school students would be able to major in such subjects as humanities, English, communications, math, science, history, social studies, arts, foreign languages and vocational skills. They would also have to declare a minor.

[Eurobabe]

28. Brother George picked a major early too

[fshrink]

29. The PR machine is launched.

Introducing our next "president". Like the Idiot but with an even more "compassionate" side.

[eppur_se_muova]

30. Great, choose your areas of voluntary ignorance early, and lock them in.

Wouldn't want anyone to get anything like a broad education, would we? They might be able to *GASP* change jobs later!!:wow:

No, no, let them choose which yoke they wish to wear, they complain so much less that way. Fits in with the plan.

ON EDIT: I read that in Ireland, students can take a year off from school, and use that time to gain work experience in a field that interests them. That makes so much more sense than REQUIRING students to make a choice AS FRESHMEN(!!) without any experience of what the real world is like.

Republicans only know ONE way to get people to do things: pass a law that REQUIRES it. The idea of HELPING people come to a good decision OF THEIR OWN VOLITION is just totally alien to them.

[KamaAina]

31. Yale won't let its first-year *college* students declare a major

You'd think Jeb! would have consulted his brother about that. Then again, Dumbya probably tried to declare a major in male cheerleading but got shot down by the dean. :-)

[KevinJH87]

33. how many english majors...

I would like to see how many students sign up for the English program. I cannot see that it would me many. Most older high school kids hate writing, never mind the freshmen that will be choosing these "majors."

[MalachiConstant]

35. sounds like a bad idea to me

i received my b.s. in physics last year and i still don't know what i want to do with my life. i seriously doubt that too many 14 and 15 year old kids have the slightest clue what they're going/want to do with their lives.

[progressivebydesign]

36. WTF??? As the parent of a freshman, I call BULLSHIT!!!

That is so unbelievably stupid. You CANNOT choose a major at 14. Wrong. Too much pressure. Kids DISCOVER what they want in school. At our school, one of the best graduation and college rates in the country, the kids choose a pathway, but they choose it each year... it's a way to have an idea of the type of thing they want to do, but is not set in stone, does not determine classes, but rather helps the counselors and parents guide the kids. This proposal of dipshit Bush has to benefit his brothers educational software company somehow, haven't figured out the angle yet...

[high density]

38. Many college freshman have no clue what they want to do

...let alone any idea about that at 14 or 15 years old. It sounds pretty dumb. At our high school we basically had three different programs, one for college bound students, one to prepare people for a technical school, and one for the accelerated placement people. In my opinion, that provided enough variety for the students' needs without flustering the teachers with too many different academic programs.