20,000 in front of S. (S) Kyle's office; !Si' Se Puede!

[lonestarnot]

http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/stories/KTVKLNews20060324_immigration-march.58b160cf.html

WOW AZ!

[Coventina]

1. Yeah, it was quite a shock to the system out here in Bush country.

You should have seen the howling on the local news. Everybody up in arms about those uppity Mexicans. I always knew there was a lot of bigotry under the surface, well it's out in the open now!
People want the organizers' heads on a platter for making them sit in traffic.

:eyes:

on edit: However, I couldn't be more pleased. It's about time Arizonans realized that their lifestyle is only possible because of cheap immigrant labor.

[cantstandbush]

3. I agree with you but i know this amnesty-immigration thing is a loser for

Dems. I'm not happy about it but I know how most Americans are really racists just under the surface and they will jump at any excuse to let it all hang out. Supporting millions who break our laws and those who hand them the jobs that a lot of Americans need and would do is not a platform for winning in November.

[Coventina]

6. I can't speak for the whole country, but I can tell you that here in AZ

the illegal immigrants do not take jobs away from American citizens.

The legal immigrants, however, that is another story. Many of the large corporations bring in engineers and programmers, etc. from India, the Phillipines and other places to work in place of American workers at a fraction of the salary. Then, once they have learned the job, the company moves it to their country of origin. That is where the American workers are truly suffering. I watched it happen at my place of former employment.

The illegals that are washing dishes, scrubbing toilets, digging ditches, mowing lawns and harvesting fruit are not taking jobs from citizens, they are keeping us from having to do our own "dirty" work.

[Warren Stupidity]

8. Also it is the vast outsourcing of skilled labor

that is wrecking the american middle class. The Democratic Party ought to be up in arms about protecting high skill high pay middle class jobs by keeping them here at home rather than joining forces with the racist xenophobic creeps who want to build a wall on the banks of the Rio Grande to keep out the 'illegals' who have been doing the low pay low skill grunt work nobody else will do for decades.

[Phx_Dem]

10. not at all accurate

"the illegal immigrants do not take jobs away from American citizens."

A rather absurd statement, the entire construction industry in AZ is staffed using hispanics, we are talking about 10 of thousands of jobs. In case u missed it, there were more homes built in the phx metro area last year than any other city in the US. That included LA etc, I think around 65 thousand last year.

PS--I do support a guest worker program.

[Coventina]

12. okay so....hispanic = illegal does it?

your Freudian slip is showing......

[Phx_Dem]

13. nice try

I did not imply anything of the sort, I'm just stating the obvious fact that many employers here are using undocumented workers, especially in the construction industry. I know this from personal work experience.

What many people on this board seem unaware of is that MOST employers are not hiring undocumented workers on purpose. The employer is required to fill out a federal form (I-9), which is great, but the SSA does not check that the SS card and # is authentic. The only time ss #s are "run" is if someone else in the US submits the same ss# in order to get benefits or something.

[Coventina]

14. "the entire construction industry in AZ is staffed using hispanics"

What exactly were you implying?

But, leaving that aside for the moment, I personally know a caucasian guy who shoots heroin almost daily. He has never had any trouble finding work in the construction field. If a guy like him has no trouble, I find it difficult to believe that "hispanics" are taking all the jobs away from "Americans."

[Phx_Dem]

15. I did not phrase it well

I agree, I should have been more specific about what I was implying.

check this link out:

http://www.urban.org/uploadedPDF/1000587_undoc_immigrants_facts.pdf

40 to 49% of the foregn born people in AZ are undocumented. tHis is based on census data.

I think we can safely assume that "lots" are working in the construction field.

[Coventina]

16. Of course. My argument is that I see no evidence that it keeps

American citizens from obtaining work as well.

[Phx_Dem]

17. you might be right

Is there any data that you know of regarding this? Being a native of Phx(42yrs) a lot of my friends growing up went into construction fields and skilled trades, it just seems to me that these type of positions are not as readily available these days.

[Coventina]

21. My evidence, like yours, is anecdotal. I know people both in contracting

and from the labor side and nobody is hurting for work.

[High Plains]

18. Immigration is an issue that is splitting Republicans.

The House Republicans have already passed their horrible bill, which consists mainly of building a wall around the US and making it a felony to come here without papers. But that's not what Bush wants, with his call for a guest worker program.

Democrats should be able to unite around a position that allows us to regulate immigrant labor (guest worker program or expanded green cards)and allows immigrant labor to be here legally, with the organizing rights available to all other workers. And since nobody but the most authoritarian police state freak really believes we're going to round up and deport 10 million or so people, we should be able to get together around an amnesty, or at least a registration program.

In terms of policy, it looks like the McCain-Kennedy bill is the best choice.

[Terran1212]

20. It's all about "winning for the Dems," not justice, right?

[High Plains]

22. Who says that? Not me.

I think the right thing, the just thing, to do is recognize that these undocumented workers are a part of our national economy and give them the chance to regularize their status.

Workers with rights increase the power of labor.

[Warren Stupidity]

25. Exactly.

And that is both politically smart and ethically just.

[Phx_Dem]

7. a bit overstated

"It's about time Arizonans realized that their lifestyle is only possible because of cheap immigrant labor."

I don't think this is accurate, Arizonans don't pay lower prices for food, housing, repairs or anything else for that matter. If anything prices are higher here than other parts of the county for goods and services.

[Warren Stupidity]

9. Agriculture is dependent on low pay workers, many of them illegals.

There is simply no good reason to not legalize the entire system of guest workers. Everyone would benefit, and the racists could stop pretending that the problem is that 'they are illegal' and get focused on their real complaint: 'they are Mexicans'.

[Coventina]

11. I don't think so. I know people in construction who have blatently stated

that they would not be able to build at the cost that they do without cheap, illegal immigrant labor.

And I know there are literally THOUSANDS of the middle-class who hire landscape workers to do their lawns for prices that would never be acceptable to American workers.

Yeah, it makes a big difference in lifestyle around here.

[Warren Stupidity]

2. I just want all of our (illegal) immigrant (hispanic)

bashing strategistss here to explain to me again why the Democratic Party ought to hop on top of the (illegal) immigrant (hispanic) bashing bandwagon. I missing where this is a great issue that we can 'play' to our advantage and not a wedge issue that can be used against us to divide the Democratic Party base.

[cantstandbush]

5. It's not about bashing, It's about not being hypocrites and also

standing for American workers.

[High Plains]

19. You'd be surprised at how active immigrant labor is in the labor

movement. Give them rights and have them stand beside American workers. More workers with more rights equals more labor power, doesn't it?

[wakeme2008]

4. LOL I hate the MSM

the video on at site say a couple thousand...

Then the police said 20,000... BFD.... IMHO..

[WhiteTara]

23. pics on tv sure looked like LOTS more

than 20,000.

[lovuian]

24. What happens to these poor people when a Depression

comes??? Housing had the lowest start in 10 years...

Things are great when there are plenty of jobs available...

but things can get ugly when a recession hits...

And who pays for the Health care...??? All these people have health insurance??? NOT!!!