Be worried, be very worried (Global Warming cover story - Time)

[onehandle]

The climate is crashing, and global warming is to blame

(Time.com) -- No one can say exactly what it looks like when a planet takes ill, but it probably looks a lot like Earth.

Never mind what you've heard about global warming as a slow-motion emergency that would take decades to play out. Suddenly and unexpectedly, the crisis is upon us.

From heat waves to storms to floods to fires to massive glacial melts, the global climate seems to be crashing around us.

The problem -- as scientists suspected but few others appreciated -- is that global climate systems are booby-trapped with tipping points and feedback loops, thresholds past which the slow creep of environmental decay gives way to sudden and self-perpetuating collapse. That's just what's happening now.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/03/26/coverstory/index.html

[Rainscents]

1. Great reading!

I wonder why MSM is starting to cover this story now? CBS, Times and tonight, ABC is covering this too. I wonder, what's in it for them? :shrug:

[FredStembottom]

6. Me, too.

The Captive Media has been Bushco's ace-in-the-hole. The entire past 5 years were impossible w/o total and complete collaboration between the Bushies and the media owners.

Who gave the signal to abandon the Good Ship Poppycock?:freak:

Wonder if the Neo-CONS ever pondered how the same media concentration that powered 9/11-ville could hasten their own demise should it turn on them?????

[hatrack]

42. Earth Day's in a month - lots of advertising revenue in play

Y'know, all those kinder, gentler corporations that are doing oh-so-much to "save the planet".

I'm sorry, but as somebody who's been following this story for about fifteen years, and obsessively following it for the last seven or eight, I can only say that there are no upper limits to my cynicism as far as human motivations are concerned - just as there now seem to be no upper limits to the amount of atmospheric CO2 we're going to be looking at in the next few decades.

[roguevalley]

49. that polar bear breaks my heart. he will probably drown before

he reaches another floe. god bless them. they're going out first.

[malaise]

54. Humans are the most destructive

species on the planet. We destroy anything that moves in the name of greed and progress. The indigenous people must shake their heads at so called civilization.

[mirandapriestly]

75. I know, I can't stand it...nt

[NickB79]

88. I saw a stuffed polar bear yesterday

I was at the new Cabelas sporting goods store, and I commented to my girlfriend that this might be the only way our grandchildren will ever see polar bears, dead and stuffed. It broke my heart to think about that.

[MGKrebs]

57. neoCons need an excuse to not rebuild NOLA.

Gotta take that money back and buy some more weapons. Or surveillance gear.

[drthais]

59. MGKrebs...hey wait

there arent that many of us
I'm a Krebs too
and in Louisiana

are you in N.O.
or is that an accident?

they werent ever going to 'rebuild' New Orleans
we've known from the get-go
that everything is one person helping another down here
let's hear t for the folks that are rebuilding regardless
of the FEMA elevation levels
that keep getting put off time and again
although, I hate to day it
what with the global environmental disaster upon us
I wonder what the next hurrican eseason will bring
and the one after that

take a look at the article from the UK yesterday
with the maps that show what land will be left after the 10-20 ft rise in sea levels
we will indeed have ocean front property
here north of Baton Rouge
not that it will matter

[MGKrebs]

65. No, not really a Krebs.

And I am in Atlanta. But I have family near there.
MGKrebs= Maynard G. Krebs


Might come down there for Jazzfest though.

Have you seen this?

http://www.ponderosastomp.com/

Ususally in NOLA but this year in Memphis. Benefit.

[drthais]

60. hey MGKrebs

Subject: MGKrebs...hey wait
Message:
there arent that many of us
I'm a Krebs too
and in Louisiana

are you in N.O.
or is that an accident?

they werent ever going to 'rebuild' New Orleans
we've known from the get-go
that everything is one person helping another down here
let's hear t for the folks that are rebuilding regardless
of the FEMA elevation levels
that keep getting put off time and again
although, I hate to say it
what with the global environmental disaster upon us
I wonder what the next hurrican eseason will bring
and the one after that

take a look at the article from the UK yesterday
with the maps that show what land will be left after the 10-20 ft rise in sea levels
we will indeed have ocean front property
here north of Baton Rouge
not that it will matter

[stephinrome]

7. I was wondering the same

Why all of a sudden? Geez, scientists have been trying to get this message across for ages.

For those who didn't catch the 60 Minutes segment last week, it's on line at C&L: http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/03/20.html#a7587

[KittyWampus]

15. Agribusiness wants to start pushing ethanol now.

[mod mom]

68. Thank you, I don't watch tv much, but that is not to be missed.

BTW, stephinrome, Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[IndianaGreen]

111. That is quite a video, but...

it ends before we are told where the White House science guy, the former oil company lobbyist, went to work for.

[butterfly77]

18. I'll tell you why ....

Hurricanes, fires,floods,earthquakes,tsunami,typhoons snow stoms in the wrong seasons, flowers blooming in the winter and the most important point is they are afraid and it is doing damage to their vacation homes and they can't deny it anymore but George Will still is peddling his propaganda.

[freefall]

23. Yes. George Will is still trying to insist that things are normal.

I heard him on a talk show this morning (I heard the repeat on c-span radio). The host indicated that the fact of global warming is no longer debatable and wanted the panel to proceed from that point but ole George was still trying to say the changes we are seeing are part of normal climate shifts. :dunce:

Why is he still being invited on these shows? Idiots.

Peace,

freefall

[megatherium]

44. George Will doesn't know from science.

He exemplifies a tendency among Americans to expound on things they know nothing about, and expect to be taken seriously. But in George's case, he's nothing but a paid shill anyway.

[stevekatz]

24. yeah..

.... earthquakes,tsunami ....


are caused by global warming...

[Lorien]

36. What's in it for them? Their survival on this planet

that's what so many don't seem to get about climate change; it WILL affect YOU. Crops and forests will fail, storms will be stronger and more frequent, and even if you don't give a shit about endangered species you WILL give a shit when massive biodiversity loss causes entire ecosystems to die off; like the world's rainforests which produce much of our oxygen, and the world's ocean flora, which produces the REST of our oxygen.

[Rainscents]

58. Thank you!!!

Duh on me!

[Webster Green]

2. BushCo Inc. should be held accountable for censoring scientific data...

...and doing everything in their power to hasten global warming.

These are criminal acts that threaten everyone on the planet.

K&R!

[louis-t]

3. But wait.. I thought it was Jesus punishing us for being nice to gays

[WinkyDink]

4. This, above all, convinces me that Bushco hates even their offspring.

Leaving them to a destroyed planet unfit for future generations.

How's that working for ya, Barb Jr. and Jenna??

[RazzleDazzle]

62. Well, we saw a clue about that when Bush used his daughters

as an excuse for why he hadn't revealed his alcohol addiction. (I think that's how it went -- it was not long before the election .) That was an absolutely horrible thing. He was clearly putting his needs over his daugthers'.

[Rude Horner]

5. The freepers are pooh-pooh'ing this...

article. Which just goes to show how dense those people are. The facts staring us right in the face and they STILL don't get it!

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1603473/posts

edit to include link

[Webster Green]

10. I went over to look at the dark site.....I must say I love this post....

To: bnelson44
We are on a giant sphere of molten iron zipping through space at an ungodly speed around a huge ball of burning hydrogen.

What could possibly go wrong?

APf



7 posted on 03/26/2006 10:08:26 AM PST by APFel (Loose ships sink lips.)

[ixion]

12. that quote is a keeper

thanks! :hi:

[Webster Green]

13. That's the most lucid thought I've ever seen posted there.

I wonder if the freep came up with it by himself.

[ixion]

19. yeah, you're right...

maybe it was a lurking DU'er. :evilgrin:

[KittyWampus]

17. Actuallyl, the heart of the Earth is an Iron Cyrstal not Molten Iron.

[DoYouEverWonder]

32. You know

He's got a point. It's amazing anything survives at all, anywhere.

[dave29]

84. we're an oasis in space

about to become a sauna, and then a freezebox.

[NickB79]

87. Which is all the more reason to be extra careful about any damage we do

If we screw this planet up, we have nowhere else to go.

[RazzleDazzle]

63. That is cute

Reminds me of a quote I ran across recently that I just loved (tho it doesn't have anything to do with the discussion, actually):

If everything is under control, you are going too slow. -- Mario Andretti

[0007]

126. That's a classic. Here's another freeper

To: bnelson44
The only thing we liberals have to offer is FEAR itself!!

This is what this garbage hit piece ought to be titled. Having only been able to measure our contribution to greenhouse emissions for the past 20 years and to conclude that our less than 10 % contribution is what has taken us to the point of supposed global warming is a purely alarmist view that is very much lacking in solid evidence.

The unknowns and the order of magnitude for trend analysis are so vast and yet they speak with certainty. Antarctica grows on one side and retreats on the other but all we hear about is the retreating side and claim man has done it even though we have never been there before to witness this happen before.

I resent these liars using little bits of truth to scare the world into socialism and greater government control over all things.

And no, to you idiots who will invent that this means I support pollution and no advancement in being green you are wrong...but then again its not me holding up building clean nuclear plants...its you lying idiots who insist that we not have nukes and thus we rely on coal and oil. Way to go liberalism!!!

11 posted on 03/26/2006 10:10:38 AM PST by ICE-FLYER (God bless and keep the United States of America)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies >

[butterfly77]

20. They will be screaming their asses off when something hits there area...

If they survive it.Oh!I forgot,their master and chief george w dumballs will save them.

[NickB79]

90. I hope they all live at least another 20 years

Just so they can see what damage their ignorance has done, and to suffer with the rest of us as we try to survive.

[rman]

8. Earth doesn't care, the animals don't care very much,

they'll just migrate - in fact they already are. Various insects and small animals in arctic areas where it used to be to cold for those species.

We should worry though. We're either to greedy, to distracted or to lazy to deal with it.

http://www.iisd.org/casl/projects/inuitobs.htm

http://www.canofun.com/cof/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=17995

[Boomer]

16. Tell that to the polar bears

Polar bears are drowning because of the increased distances between ice flows. And many other animal and plant populations are crashing, not simply migrating.

This is a disaster for the ecosystem that covers the planet. But quite right, the planet itself just barrels on.

[DoYouEverWonder]

34. Climate change happens

but it is going at an accelerated rate it seems.

But we should remember that it wasn't that long ago that palm trees were growing in western Colorado. My friends found a fossil palm frond at about 10,000+ ft above sea level.

[Lorien]

37. Er, yeah they do

the animals of the Amazon RIGHT NOW are starving to death. The drought there is unprecedented. One DUer visited a park in Costa Rica where the stench of decay was almost overwhelming; the forest floor was littered with dead birds and primates. They can't "migrate" when the situation is the same for hundreds if not thousands of square miles. They are dying slowly and painfully-these are thinking and feeling creatures that deserve far better than what we have given them.

[Delphinus]

39. Lorien,

reading what you wrote about what's happening in the Amazon simply breaks my heart. :cry:

[roguevalley]

51. a scientist once estimated that two or three insects, plants and

animals die into extinction EVERY DAY on this forsaken rock.

[NickB79]

91. And we have sped that process up dramatically

Just like the climate, we have artificially boosted the RATE of temperature increase which then boosts the rate of species extinction. What once would have taken tens of thousands of years now occurs over a few centuries.

[lovuian]

9. The not signing the Kyota treaty was the falling off the cliff

this is going to be a much harsher world...

[progressoid]

11. I doubt signing the Kyoto Treaty would have mattered.

This administration has clearly shown a contempt for treaties and international law.

[megatherium]

45. Unfortunately, even the Kyoto Treaty wouldn't have slowed global

warming, it was only meant to be a start. In the event of course, we don't even have that.

[lovuian]

61. Ya that was my point...Kyota would have recognized the

problem ... Bush didn't even this it was an issue!!!

I have been checking towns below sea level

Long Beach San Jose Virginia Texas City Galveston Tampa Alaska

We got some problems...

[Godhumor]

72. Bush would have added a signing statement

Big to do about signing this historic agreement, and, as the leaders of the world look on in horror, he adds a small document stating the US doesn't actually need to follow any of the protocols.

I wonder if he issues signing statements at home with his family.

[YankeyMCC]

14. K&R

[cassiepriam]

21. It might be too late as we speak,

Earth was such a nice planet, sorry we destroyed it.

[nofoil]

22. The other day

I was at a baby shower that was held at a POSH country club. Just to become a member costs $100,000. The host, a very nice lady, was sitting next to her daughter. Turns out she doesn't believe in global warming. I could have just cried. If not for herself, then for her daughter, it's crucial that she, and the rest of the US open their hearts and minds to this issue. For God's sake, how much more can this world take? We can't continue to break Mother Earth's spine as we dine in fancy clubs and live in our fancy (or not so fancy) homes. It is inexcusable.

Do you know that water experts are saying that if trends continue, in the next 50 years, there may be no more Ganges River. That even sooner, many the rivers that feed Africa may go dry.

It is predicted that there will be some 50 million water refugees by the end of the decade.

Already, militaries are gearing up for so-called water wars. Why can't we just put the stupidity aside for a moment, and ask what we can do to avoid absolute catastrophe? It's time to shut up about abortion legislation, Michael Jackson, and the minister's supposedly homocidal wife and do something for the sake of our kids.

[roguevalley]

52. what is truly frightening is if the greenland fresh water floods the

salt sea. it could stop the world undersea current. imagine a stagnant ocean.

[Kazak]

89. *applause*

I wish I could recommend your post. Well said!

:thumbsup:

[pitohui]

100. water wars

kenya, uganda, and tanzania have put aside their differences and hope to have a unified east african gov't by 2009

when i mentioned it to hubby, he said flat out, it's so they can get together and fight for the water rights to lake victoria isn't it (the british signed a treaty giving the water away to egypt!)

i think he is right

indeed kenya has already said that if necessary they will fight, they can no longer sit by and let a rich nation like egypt refuse a poor nation like kenya the right to use the fresh water within their own national boundaries

[Hissyspit]

25. I had never heard of the Apple switch thing. Thanks for your sig line! n/t

[cassiepriam]

26. Even if we wake people up, there is no money to do anything

Bush Co robbed us of all our cash..

[SpiralHawk]

33. Money is not the answer, one hears

among the indigenous peoples of the earth.

Relationship, instead they say, is the pathway forward.

JUST now the relationship of the human beings with thier mother earth is distorted and disturbed in many perverse ways.

When we come back into a right respectful relationship with the Earth Mother -- and there are many old and new ways to do this -- then stability will return.

This is what is said along the Turtle Telegraph. This is how I have heard it. This is how I say it to you.

[cassiepriam]

35. You are of course correct.

[Delphinus]

40. Thank you, SpiralHawk. n/t

[druidity33]

46. you get it...

The Turtle Telegraph spans far and wide... all across the lands. I think you would appreciate the book No More Throw Away People by Edgar Cahn, it is in your words one of the new "ways to do this". Peace to you.

[pitohui]

101. money and technology are the only answer

the only way out is forward, we're past the point of no return

not to be mean to the indigeneous peoples of the earth, esp. since i'm partly of indigenous heritage myself, but if the path of superstition and right relationship with earth worked so well, why are we in the mess we're in, clearly we got invaded, overwhelmed, and all the rest of it as you see


sorry for the negativity but w.out money and will to find better technology you are just whistling past the graveyard

humanity has put up w. these damn storms and droughts for thousands of years, and it's long enough, we should be saying, no more, and we don't do that w. a drumming ceremony and some magic mushrooms

[Hissyspit]

27. I haven't forgotten about the ozone hole, either! I been worried for

decades.

[SaveElmer]

28. With his knack for self-delusion, Bush will..

Simply convince himself this is a ploy by the "liberal media"

[Vinnie From Indy]

29. Mother Nature doesn't give a shit about us

Why does Mother Nature hate America?

[Peace Patriot]

30. I'm against this "be worried--be very worried" line. Worry, like fear,

fosters disempowerment. Don't be worried. Do something useful! For instance...

Throw Diebold and ES&S election theft machines into 'Boston Harbor' NOW!

---------------------------

Some resources for American Revolution II:

Breaking news:

Californians sue the state over Diebold:
www.VoterAction.org--just announced--suing the state of California and 18 Calif county registrars on behalf of 25 California voter/plaintiffs, on the illegal Diebold "certification".
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2180496

Maryland rejects Diebold:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x418263

Florida - anti-trust accusations against Diebold, ES&S and Sequoia:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2183630

www.votersunite.org (MythBreakers - easy primer on electronic voting--one of the myths is that HAVA requires electronic voting; it does not.)
www.verfiedvoting.org (great activist site)
www.votetrustusa.org (news of this great movement from around the country)
www.UScountvotes.org (statistical monitoring of '06 and '08 elections)
www.solarbus.org/election/index.shtml (fab compendium of all election info)
www.freepress.org (devoted to election reform)
www.bradblog.com (also great, and devoted to election reform)
www.TruthIsAll.net (analysis of the 2004 election)* :patriot: :applause: :patriot:
Sign the petition (Russ Holt, HR 550, great bill-has 169 sponsors). http://www.rushholt.com/petition.html
www.votepa.us (well-organized local group of citizen activists in Pennsylvania, where important legal issues are at stake, including state's rights over election systems)

www.debrabowen.com (Calif Senator running for Sec of State to reform election system)
www.johnbonifaz.com (running for Massachusetts Sec of State on strong election reform and antiwar platform)

*Some tributes to TruthIsAll, who is very ill:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x417007
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x417231
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x675477

Also of interest:

Bob Koehler (-- four recent election reform initiatives in Ohio, predicted to win by 60/40 votes, flipped over, on election day, into 60/40 LOSSES!--the biggest flipover we've seen yet; the election theft machines and their masters are now dictating election policy!)
www.tmsfeatures.com/tmsfeatures/subcategory.jsp?file=20051124ctnbk-a.txt&catid=1824&code=ctnbk

Bob Koehler's latest: "Take this box and stuff it" (3/16/06)
http://commonwonders.com/archives/col337.htm

Amaryllis (Diebold, ES&S, Sequoia lavish lobbying of election officials - Beverly Hilton, Aug. '05)
www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x380340

------------------------------------------------

Throw Diebold, ES&S and ALL election theft machines into 'Boston Harbor' NOW!

:think: :patriot: :woohoo: :patriot: :think:

-----------

"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it." --Thomas Jefferson, The Declaration of Independence

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

31. Oh, I'm worried alright.

I'm worried that TIME isn't quite corporate enough for me.

Where's thAT f'n US News & World Report when I need it!

[anotherdrew]

38. time for SOHO to get some new neighbors...

two large sun-shields positioned to block the sun at the poles should get things chilly up there again. shouldn't be too hard to make them fairly quickly. Might be better to build them in high orbit, it should be thought about seriously soon.

[eppur_se_muova]

55. Assuming we even had the technology...how do you BLOCK the Sun at the ...

poles? I know several engineers/SF authors/physicists (usually they overlap) have suggested that a large solar reflector held near the pole by solar-sail pressure (I think it was Robert L. Forward who called this a 'heliostat', IIRC) could be used to divert sunlight TO the poles for extra warmth (see especially Kim Stanley Robinson's "Red Mars/Blue Mars/Green Mars" trilogy). But how do you BLOCK sunlight from reaching the poles? I think in this case the effect of photon pressure would be to push the shield away from where you want it, not hold it in place, which is what makes a heliostat viable.

I think you may be confusing two effects with opposite results here.

[anotherdrew]

66. here's one way...

a swarm of thousands of small robots - disk shaped with an ion engine set that can move the robot while keeping the solar panel/sun-blocker pointed at the sun. each unit at launch/after refueling jets forward (toward the sun), slowly getting pushed back to the refueling station, then launching forward again, maneuvering enough to keep from running into any others. At the stations, the robots would be moving very slowly, so it should be ideal conditions to grab it, service it, refuel it and launch it back. Each unit is cheap and easy to make, these two stations sit above and below the earth-sun liberation point. Can we please call this Project Icarus? Despite it's hubris it might just work.

[AngryAmish]

95. Ever since the dawn of time man has dreamt of blocking out the sun

[eppur_se_muova]

96. Eeeeeeekkkksssssellent!!

:rofl:

[hatrack]

41. "Suddenly And Unexpectedly" my pale pessimistic ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's going on 18 years now since Hansen went to Capitol Hill, and even then, filtered through the conservatism of science and the measured prose was the possibility that things could very possibly go very wrong very quickly.

And now "suddenly and unexpectedly" it's a problem? More sodden "journalism" from the corporate shills who are hot on the scent of the latest microchip or video game or plasma television but who can't find the time to do reporting on the real scientific deal unless "balance" and "fairness" - meaning the inevitable presence of corporate hacks to leech any potential meaning from a story's conclusions - are part of the picture.

But now, just as it's becoming abundantly clear that matters are pretty much out of our hands as far as actions capable of stopping the phenomenon are concerned, "suddenly and unexpectedly" it's the cover story.

Whatever.

Time can FUCKING BITE ME.

[JudyM]

43. Al Gore we need you badly. Please come back!

If only the supremes had voted with their heads instead of their partisan stone-cold hearts back in '00 surely the earth would be in better condition by now.

[ramapo]

70. Maybe if Al Gore had actually done something

His book was the highlight of the Clinton/Gore environmental action. Sure Clinton created a couple of parks but he also gutted CAFE and did little to create an energy policy. Not that anybody really wanted to hear about one during the '90s anyway.

[JudyM]

71. We can't blame Gore for Clinton's actions. Still beats Bushes I & II, tho

My own impression is that Clinton is less principled than Gore. Clearly so when it comes to the environment.

[TheCentepedeShoes]

47. Mother Nature bats last

and she carries a heck of a karma stick.

[Massachusetts]

78. "and she carries a heck of a karma stick."

Excellent!

[OKIsItJustMe]

48. Al Gore (surprise) was right

http://www.debates.org/pages/trans2000b.html

...
MODERATOR: New question, new subject. Vice President Gore, on the environment. In your 1992 book you said, quote, "We must make the rescue of our environment the central organizing principle for civilization and there must be a wrenching transformation to save the planet." Do you still feel that way?

GORE: I do. I think that in this 21st century we will soon see the consequences of what's called global warming. There was a study just a few weeks ago suggesting that in summertime the north polar ice cap will be completely gone in 50 years. Already people see the strange weather conditions that the old timers say they've never seen before in their lifetimes. And what's happening is the level of pollution is increasing significantly. Now, here is the good news, Jim. If we take the leadership role and build the new technologies, like the new kinds of cars and trucks that Detroit is itching to build, then we can create millions of good new jobs by being first into the market with these new kinds of cars and trucks and other kinds of technologies. You know the Japanese are breathing down our necks on this. They're moving very rapidly because they know that it is a fast-growing world market. Some of these other countries, particularly in the developing world, their pollution is much worse than anywhere else and their people want higher standards of living. And so they're looking for ways to satisfy their desire for a better life and still reduce pollution at the same time. I think that holding onto the old ways and the old argument that the environment and the economy are in conflict is really outdated. We have to be bold. We have to provide leadership. Now it's true that we disagree on this. The governor said that he doesn't think this problem is necessarily caused by people. He's for letting the oil companies into the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Houston has just become the smoggiest city in the country. And Texas is number one in industrial pollution. We have a very different outlook. And I'll tell you this, I will fight for a clean environment in ways that strengthen our economy.

...

BUSH: I think it's an issue that we need to take very seriously. But I don't think we know the solution to global warming yet. And I don't think we've got all the facts before we make decisions. I tell you one thing I'm not going to do is I'm not going to let the United States carry the burden for cleaning up the world's air. Like Kyoto Treaty would have done. China and India were exempted from that treaty. I think we need to be more even-handed, as evidently 99 senators -- I think it was 99 senators supported that position.

...

[eppur_se_muova]

56. Thanks, OK! And welcome to DU!

:hi:

[Strelnikov_]

50. Need To Get Al Gore's Movie Out ASAP

Need to get Al Gore to run for president.

[Gloria]

73. Gore's movie is being released on May 26!!

[AlGore-08.com]

117. Yup, the Time article even mentions that Gore's movie is coming out

[Uncle Joe]

127. I hope Paramount does a good job of promoting

Al's Movie and distributes it widely.

[killbotfactory]

53. Republicans don't listen to scientists

They listen to lobbyists. They know who butters their bread.

Global warming will soon be relegated to myth status, just like with the "Saddam has doesn't have ties to Al-Qaeda or WMDs" nonsense, or the "smoking causes cancer" thing, or "ddt is bad for you", or the "AIDS isn't just a gay disease" thing, or "black's are equal to whites" nonsense...

[hunter]

74. It's gonna be hard not to notice.

No really, the city was built in the water like that, on purpose.

[killbotfactory]

112. They wanted to make it like Venice!

give it some class...

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

64. Birth control throughout the world needs to become a big issue

at least in my opinion. Whether it's through contraception or abortion, I think it's an issue that needs to come front and center in any discussion of the crashing climate and global warming. I'm all for cutting our dependence on fossil fuels and the lessening of our "carbon footprint". But I don't think that will even be enough. If the earth's population reduced itself by one-half, but if the undeveloped nations slowly caught up to even half the energy consumption that occurs in the United States, it will still precipitate the decline of the earth. We need to drastically reduce not only our pollution, our energy consumption, our waste, but also our population. Flame away.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

77. a little friendly GENOCIDE? you know- just on the "less" desireable races

right?
not to think that Americans would be willing to cut back on baby making
I mean, c'mon, to have at least 3 or 4 kids per family is our birthright --right?
Just those awful poor dark people in disease ridden poverty stricken parts of the world
EWWW
!!!
--let's get THEM to stop making babies!

That'd work for most of us Americans -don't ya think?

or how bout we jest nukem!
:nuke:

sarcasm off: we really do need to use alternate and renewable energy sources-oil is just deadly

for everyone

[raccoon]

82. Yeah, and for Americans and people in other industrialized

nations, using the lion's share of the world's resources is our birthright, right?

I'll bet the average American consumes 25 times what the average third-world citizen does. That's just a guess; if anyone has seen any stats on this, please post.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

106. good post-I do know this- that America is 6 % of the Word's Population

America comprises 6% of the world's Population yet consumes 60% of the word's Beef.
The grazing land if used for farming crops could feed every starving child and adult on the planet.
not to mention would preserve the Rain Forrest which produces the earth's oxygen supply.
The Rain Forrest is being leveled to make way for grazing cattle for McDonalds.

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

[Lorien]

109. See post # 93

great minds think alike. ;-)

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

116. thanks--!--that's a great overview !--and love your cats! --n/t

[NickB79]

123. Like it or not, the Earth's carrying capacity is 2-3 billion humans

And that's when they're NOT living an Americanized lifestyle. If we don't take control of our own future through limiting population growth, nothing else we do matters. Driving a hybrid car or putting up a few solar panels won't do jack to offset the millions of new mouths arriving on this planet annually.

Population control is the elephant in the room that everyone is ignoring.

[BrightKnight]

124. China & India

China and india are the two biggest emerging sources of Greenhouse gasses. China has very strict population control measures. India aborts a large percentage of their female babies. Short of mass murder I don't think that population control is the whole answer to the problem.

The Bush administration's abstinence only campings are a sick joke.

-----
The only solution to the problem is source reduction. Photo-voltaic systems are gaining momentum in the developing world. The Solar Electric Light Fund is doing some interesting work ( http://www.self.org/ ). Bill Clinton was involved with this project. The Chimp family hasn't done squat.

A large scale PV distribution in the US could make a huge difference.

[Lorien]

92. No flames here. I chose not to have children because I feel so strongly

about ZPG (zero population growth). It's a harsh reality, but a reality nevertheless. Our population passed "sustainability" about ten years ago, and now we're facing the consequences. What's truly frightening is that now a billion Chinese want to live at American standards; a billion extra cars on the road-what will that do to the planet? If the rest of the world looks to america to set the standard, then we have to do a better job of setting a POSITIVE one. Smaller homes, voluntary simplicity, lessen beef consumption (a bigger contributor to greenhouse gasses than autos), smaller families-and we need to make education a greater priority. Quality of life doesn't depend on stuff; too often we've bought into the corporate lie that materialism brings happiness,and that lie is killing us.

[pitohui]

103. alas there is no political will

i don't even have to read reply one to know you will be accused of racism, genocide, and god knows what other ills because you have dared mention the necessity for population control

since there is no political will to call for fair play and make it ONE child to a family, then what happens is that the most ignorant and most religiously fanatic out-breed us and our child's vote for sanity counts for nothing against the mormon's 17 children's votes for insanity

this is why i despair, because in the name of "liberty" we cripple ourselves and guarantee that our own will be helplessly outnumbered by the know-nothings forever

i have lost hope frankly

[gulfcoastliberal]

67. Hope your kids and/or grandkids evolve blowholes or gills!

They'll be needing them. Maybe those "dolphins experiences" at resorts will give them a head start!

:evilgrin:

[mod mom]

69. Has everyone seen "End of Suburbia"? (I'm usually the last to see movies)

I'm going to a screening held by some friends this week, then plan to host a showing at my house. My friends who have seen it said it's life changing.

[freefall]

85. I haven't seen "End of Suburbia" but I read "The Long Emergency"

by James Howard Kuntsler. I don't know if he was associated with the documentary "End of Suburbia" but he wrote the book on which it was based. My guess is that you will find the movie a life-changing event. "The Long Emergency" was certainly a life-changing event for me.

Here is a link to an essay based on "The Long Emergency". It may give you an idea what to expect.

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0413-28.htm

Peace,

freefall

[mod mom]

108. Thank you. nt

[megatherium]

86. I have a copy. It's very good.

Be sure and watch the two archival films from the 1950s in the extra materials. Amusing and quite fascinating.

[Lorien]

94. Please give us a review after you've watched it!

:hi:

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

76. it's called RECOIL-to honor all the OTHER laws of physics-yet to ignore

to ignore the laws of the ecosystem, the food chain, the weather/ocean relationship
is to ignore the most important science on of Earth.

Mother Nature always seeks balance--
and recoil is normal.
...funny, it may have to rid itself of the parasite called human life
...unless we can establish some sort of semi-symbiotic relationship--
(but is that even possible at this point?)

[baby_mouse]

79. Gasp, so Time Warner's in on the vast liberal conspiracy TOO?

Whooda thunk?

:sarcasm:

[Ganja Ninja]

80. It's too late already.

We can't stop it now even if we cut all our CO2 emissions. We need to face up to the fact that this is going to happen and we will lose everything that isn't 20 feet over current sea levels. We are at war with mother nature and mother nature will win in the end. The only thing we can do now is to try and mitigate the losses by planning for the inevitable and working to bring the current CO2 emissions down to a point where they aren't increasing.

[lonestarnot]

81. I have been and still am!

[Tesha]

83. "Nature knows when to give up"

In the movie WarGamesDr. Falken may have gotten it correct:

Stephen Falken: Now, children, come on over here. I'm going to tell you a bedtime story. Are you sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin. Once upon a time, there lived a magnificent race of animals that dominated the world through age after age. They ran, they swam, and they fought and they flew, until suddenly, quite recently, they disappeared. Nature just gave up and started again. We weren't even apes then. We were just these smart little rodents hiding in the rocks. And when we go, nature will start over. With the bees, probably. Nature knows when to give up, David.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086567/quotes

[Lorien]

93. BEEF production; a greater threat than your automobile:

Want to make a real difference? Say 'no" to beef. Here's just a few good reasons why boycotting beef is a truly progressive action to take:

FACT SHEET: ENVIRONMENTAL DEVASTATION
THE REAL COSTS OF BEEF:
ENVIRONMENTAL
DEVASTATION

Cattle and beef production is a primary threat to the global environment. It is a major contributor to deforestation, soil erosion and desertification, water scarcity, water pollution, depletion of fossil fuels, global warming, and loss of biodiversity.

Deforestation

* Cattle ranching is a primary cause of deforestation in Latin America. Since 1960, more than one quarter of all Central. American forests have been razed to make pasture for cattle. Nearly 70 percent of deforested land in Panama and Costa Pica is now pasture.1
* Some 40,000 square miles of Amazon forest were cleared for cattle ranching and other commercial development between 1966 and 1983. Brazil estimates that 38 percent of its rain forest was destroyed for cattle pasture.2
* Just one quarter-pound hamburger imported from Latin America requires the clearing of 6 square yards of rain forest and the destruction of 165 pounds of living matter including 20 to 30 different plant species, 100 insect species, and dozens of bird, mammal, and reptile species. 3

Soil Erosion and Desertification

* Cattle production is turning productive land into barren desert in the American West and throughout the world. Soil erosion and desertification is caused directly by cattle and other livestock overgrazing. Overcultivation of the land, improper irrigation techniques, and deforestation are also principal causes of erosion and desertification, and cattle production is a primary factor in each case.
* Cattle degrade the land by stripping vegetation and compacting the earth. Each animal foraging on the open range eats 900 pounds of vegetation every month. Their powerful hoofs trample vegetation and crush the soil with an impact of 24 pounds per square inch.4
* As much as 85 percent of U.S. western rangeland, nearly 685 million acres, is being degraded by overgrazing and other problems, according to a 1991 United Nations report. The study estimates that 430 million acres in the American West is suffering a 25 to 50 percent yield reduction, largely because of overgrazing.5
* The United States has lost one third of its topsoil. An estimated six of the seven billion tons of eroded soil is directly attributable to grazing and unsustainable methods of producing feed crops for cattle and other livestock.6
* Each pound of feedlot steak costs about 35 pounds of eroded American topsoil, according to the Worldwatch Institute.7

Water Scarcity

* Nearly half of the total amount of water used annually in the U. S. goes to grow feed and provide drinking water for cattle and other livestock. Producing a pound of grain-fed steak requires the use of hundreds of gallons of water. Producing a pound of beef protein often requires up to fifteen times more water than producing an equivalent amount of plant protein.8
* U.S. fresh water reserves have declined precipitously as a result of excess water use for cattle and other livestock. U.S. water shortages, especially in the West, have now reached critical levels. Overdrafts now exceed replenishments by 25 percent.9
* The great Ogallala aquifer, one of the world's largest fresh water reserves, is already half depleted in Kansas, Texas, and New Mexico. In California. where 42 percent of irrigation water is used for feed or livestock production, water tables have dropped so low that in some areas the earth is sinking under the vacuum. Some U.S. reservoirs and aquifers are now at their lowest levels since the end of the last Ice Age.11

Water Pollution

* Organic waste from cattle and other livestock, pesticides, chemical fertilizers, and agricultural salts and sediments are the primary non-point source of water pollution in the U.S.11
* Cattle produce nearly 1 billion tons of organic waste each year. The average feedlot steer produces more than 47 pounds ofmanure every twenty-four hours. Nearly 500,000 pounds of manure are produced daily on a standard 10,000- head feedlot. This is the rough equivalent of what a city of 110,000 would produce in human waste. There are 42,000 feedlots in 13 U.S. states.12

Depletion of Fossil Fuels

* Intensive animal agriculture uses a dis proportionate amount of fossil fuels. Supplying the world with a typical American meat-based diet would deplete all world oil reserves in just a few years.13
* It now takes the equivalent of a gallon of gasoline to produce a pound of grainfed beef in the United States. The annual beef consumption of an average American family of four requires more than 260 gallons of fuel and releases 2.5 tons of CO2 into the atmosphere, as much as the average car over a six month period.14

Global Warming

* Cattle and beef production is a significant factor in the emission of three of the four global warming gases -- carbon dioxide, nitrous oxide, and methane.15
* Much of the carbon dioxide released into the atmosphere is directly attributable to beef production: burning forests to make way for cattle pasture and burning massive tracts of agricultural waste from cattle feed crops. When the fifty-five square feet of rain forest needed to produce one quarter-pound hamburger is burned for pasture, 500 pounds of CO2 is released into the atmosphere.16
* CO2 is also generated by the fuel used in the highly mechanized agricultural production of feed crops for cattle and other livestock. With 70 percent of all U.S. grain production now used for livestock feed, the CO2 emitted as a direct result is significant.17
* Petrochemical fertilizers used to produce feed crops for grain-fed cattle release nitrous oxide, another greenhouse gas. Worldwide, the use of fertilizers has increased dramatically from 14 million tons in 1950 to 143 million tons in 1989. Nitrous oxide now accounts for 6 percent of the global warming effect.18
* Cattle emit methane, another greenhouse gas, through belching and flatulation. Scientists estimate that more than 500 million tons of methane are released each year and that the world's 1.3 billion cattle and other ruminant livestock emit approximately 60 million tons or 12 percent of the total from all sources. Methane is a serious problem because one methane molecule traps 25 times as much solar heat as a molecule of CO2.19

Loss of Biodiversity

* U.S. cattle production has caused a significant loss of biodiversity on both public and private lands. More plant species in the U.S. have been eliminated or threatened by livestock grazing than by any other cause, according to the U.S. General Accounting Office (GAO).20
* Riparian zones -- the narrow strips of land that run alongside rivers and streams where most of the range flora and fauna are concentrated -- have been the hardest hit by cattle grazing. More than 90 percent of the original riparian zones of Arizona and New Mexico are gone, according to the Arizona State Park Department. Colorado and Idaho have also been hard hit. The GAO reports that "poorly managed livestock grazing is the major cause of degraded riparian habitat on federal rangelands."21
* Unable to compete with cattle for food, wild animals are disappearing from the rangs. Pronghorn have decreased from 15 million a century ago to less than 271,000 today. Bighorn sheep, once numbering over 2 million, are now less than 20,000. The elk population has plummeted from 2 million to less than 455,000.22
* The government has worked with ranchers to make cattle grazing the predominant use of Western public lands. The Bureau of Land Management (BLM) has long favored ranching over other uses. BLM sprays herbicides over large tracts of range eliminating vegetation eaten by wild animals and replacing it with monocultures of grasses favored by cattle.23
* Under pressure from ranchers, the U.S. government exterminates tens of thousands of predator and "nuisance" animals each year. In 1989, a partial list of animals killed by the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Animal Damage Control Program included 86,502 coyotes, 7,158 foxes, 236 black bears, 1,220 bobcats, and 80 wolves. In 1988, 4.6 million birds, 9,000 beavers, 76,000 coyotes, 5,000 raccoons, 300 black bears, and 200 mountain lions, among others, were killed. Some 400 pet dogs and 100 cats were also inadvertently killed. Extermination methods used include poisoning, shooting, gassing, and burning animals in their dens.24
* The predator "control" program cost American taxpayers $29.4 million in 1990 -- more than the amount of losses caused by wild animals.25
* Tens of thousands of wild horses and burros have been rounded up by the federal government because ranchers claim they compete with their cattle for forage. The horses and burros are held in corrals, costing taxpayers millions of dollars per year. Many wild horses have ended up at slaughterhouses.
* For several years, cattle ranchers have blocked efforts to re-introduce the wolf, an endangered species, into the wild, as required by the U.S. Endangered Species Act.

Much more: http://www.mcspotlight.org/media/reports/beyond.html#3

[flvegan]

98. This should be required reading.

Great post!

[pitohui]

104. wasn't this debunked years ago?

like when rifkin published that book in the 80s?

beef is not produced on land where we grow crops, it is grown on land that is not useful for producing sufficient calories through vegetable crops

maybe your ancestors were stupid, but i doubt it, and mine sure weren't, the husbandry of animals was invented for a reason

go to kenya and watch, on land where nothing can grow that is digestible by a human stomach, a goat can eat a thorn tree and produce milk and meat, a cow can eat grass and produce milk and meat

and i defy you to tell the masai warrior straight-faced that the methane from his cow farts is killing the planet

we need practical answers, grabbing people's food and cars ain't gonna do it

[Lorien]

105. No it wasn't. THIS research is recent

as is this:

The Price of Cheap Beef:
Disease, Deforestation, Slavery and Murder
By George Monbiot
Guardian
October 18, 2005

If it's unethical to eat British beef, it's 100 times worse to eat Brazilian - but imports have nearly doubled this year.

For the past five years I have been at war with Farmers for Action. These are the neanderthals who have held up the traffic and blockaded the refineries in the hope of persuading the government to reduce the price of fuel. It doesn't matter how often you explain that cheap fuel, which allows the supermarkets to buy from wherever the price of meat or grain is lowest, has destroyed British farming. They will stand in front of the cameras and make us watch as they cut their own throats.

But through gritted teeth I must admit that they have got something right. In January the caveman in chief, David Handley, warned that foot and mouth disease had not been eliminated from Brazil, and that imports of meat from that country risked bringing it back to Britain. The buyers brushed his warning aside. In the first half of this year beef imports from Brazil to the UK rose by 70%, to 34,000 tons. Last week an outbreak was confirmed in the Brazilian state of Mato Grosso do Sul.

You would, of course, expect British producers to throw as much mud as they can at cheap imports. You would expect them to question their competitors' hygiene standards and social and environmental impacts, and Mr. Handley has done all of these things. But, to my intense annoyance, he is on every count correct.

Unlike him, I do not believe that British beef farmers have a God-given right to stay in business. We shouldn't be eating beef at all. Because the conversion efficiency of feed to meat is so low in cattle, there is no more wasteful kind of food production. British beef producers would be extinct were it not for subsidies and European tariffs. Brazilian meat threatens them only because it is so cheap that it can outcompete theirs even after trade taxes have been paid. But if it's unethical to eat British beef, it's 100 times worse to eat Brazilian.

Until 1990 Brazil produced only enough beef to feed itself. Since then its cattle herd has grown by some 50 million, and the country has become, according to some estimates, the world's biggest exporter: it now sells 1.9m tons a year. The United Kingdom is its fourth-largest customer, after Russia, Egypt and Chile. One region is responsible for 80% of the growth in Brazilian beef production. It's the Amazon.

The past three years have been the most destructive in the Brazilian Amazon's history. In 2004 26,000 sq. km of rainforest were burned: the second-highest rate on record. This year could be worse. And most of it is driven by cattle ranching. According to the Center for International Forestry Research, cattle pasture accounts for six times more cleared land in the Amazon than crop land: even the notorious soya farmers, who have plowed some 5m hectares of former rainforest, cover just one-tenth of the ground taken by the beef producers. The four Amazon states in which the most beef is produced are the four with the highest deforestation rates.

Cattle ranching, if it keeps expanding in the Amazon, threatens two-fifths of the world's remaining rainforest. This is not just the most diverse ecosystem but also the biggest reserve of standing carbon. Its clearance could provoke a hydrological disaster in South America, as rainfall is reduced as the trees come down. Next time you see footage of the forest burning, remember that you might have paid for it.

Many Brazilians, especially those whose land is being grabbed by the cattlemen, are trying to stop the destruction. Ranchers have an effective argument: when people complain, they kill them. In February we heard an echo of the massacre which has so far claimed 1200 lives, when the American nun Dorothy Stang was murdered - almost certainly by beef producers. The ranchers believed to have killed her were, like cattlemen throughout the Amazon, protected by the police.

For the same reason, and despite the best efforts of President Lula, the ranchers are now employing some 25,000 slaves on their estates. These are people who are transported thousands of miles from their home states, then - forced to buy their provisions from the ranch shop at inflated prices - kept in permanent debt. Because of the expansion of beef production in the Amazon, slavery in Brazil has quintupled in 10 years.

So the government of a country which - despite its best efforts - has failed to stop slavery, murder and environmental catastrophe expects us to believe that its farm-hygiene standards are as rigorously enforced as those of any other nation. Anyone who has worked in the Amazon knows that there is no certificate which cannot be bought, and few local officials who aren't working for the people they are meant to regulate. If foot and mouth disease is endemic in the Brazilian Amazon - most of which is now registered by the government as "safe" - the ministers in Brasilia will be the last to know.

More: http://www.globalpolicy.org/socecon/envronmt/2005/1018beef.htm

OUR ancestors may not have been idiots, but modern man is a hopelessly self destructive species. There's nothing MORE practical than ending beef consumption (unless you're a member of the GOP lovin' beef council); if you follow the original link you'll discover how harmful beef has become to modern bodies that ARE NOT tracking it for dozens of miles before killing it, or fattening it up for a holiday and not as a daily lunchtime staple. Modern beef is laden with hormones, pesticides, and injected with huge quantities of antibiotics. The first thing my doctor tells her patients is "if you're concerned about illness-get off beef"!

Now, no one will come to your home and snatch your SUV or grab the greasy McBurger from your mouth-so sit back and enjoy-the beef and oil industry have our politician firmly in their pockets. But adults all come to realize that every choice they make has consequences; unfortunately the entire planet is paying for decades of bad ones right now.

[flvegan]

110. No it wasn't.

Crops...like the soy fed to said cattle? Wiping out the Amazon to plant the least efficient means of producing calories (soy to beef to slaughter to people).

Erego, beef IS produced on that land, via the crops that, were they intended for people, could largely feed a good part of the world.

The masai warrior? You're kidding, right?

Selfishness hangs on to the food and the cars that bring this planet to her knees. Some folks should look into that...

[Beaverhausen]

115. Wow. Did you even read the post?

[NMMNG]

120. Be careful there

You're treading on a sacred cow there. :scared:

[BrightKnight]

97. The CO2 cost of everything,

Paper clips, tooth paste, CDs, books, iPods and everthing else has a CO2 cost. Energy is required to acquire the raw materials, manufacture, transport, use, and dispose of everything.

The cost of 1 killowatt hour of electricity is about 1 to 2 pounds of CO2.

A SUV generates about 12 tons of CO2 per 15K miles. Even a hybrid car generates 4 tons of CO2 per 15k miles.

------------------------------------------------------

Here is a table of annual per capita CO2 emissions:

Country Year CO2e Mt / Pop M = CO2e t/person
Australia 2001 553 / 20.09 = 27.53
Canada 2003 740.00 / 31.00 = 23.87
China 2004 3583.80 / 1306.30 = 2.74
European Union 1999 4030.00 / 375.30 = 10.74
India 2001 1228.54 / 1027.00 = 1.20
Japan 2002 1224.98 / 126.93 = 9.65
Netherlands 1999 174.10 / 19.80 = 8.79
Russia 1999 1880.00 / 145.60 = 12.91
United Kingdom 2003 656.00 / 59.60 = 11.01
USA 2003 6935.70 / 290.81 = 23.85

----------------------------------------------------

Once the CO2 has been released into the atmosphere there is no way to get it out. We produce way more CO2 than the earth can absorb.

Planting forrests will not solve the global warming probem. We would need to plant a forrest the size of Texas every 30 years to reduce US CO2 emmissions by 7%. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_sequestration "Forests" section )

[Lorien]

99. But planting forests won't hurt, either

we have to start somewhere. Oddly enough, I just got an iPod with the hope of only purchasing music and books on tape digitally from now on, thus cutting down on physical "stuff"(plus I'll take all my old CDs to a used CD retailer so that others can enjoy the music without purchasing a new product). I either borrow the books I want to read now, or purchase them used.I also won't buy DVDs, but rent them from Netflix instead.Tools can be rented, one can choose vintage clothing over new (often it's made better anyway), raw ingredients can be purchased instead of processed foods, products with excess packaging can be avoided, etc. I know that there's a CO2 cost no matter what but taking small steps is far better than taking no steps at all. I'm pretty convinced that we'll do ourselves in soon, no matter what-but it's still worth it to take personal responsibility for one's own impact.

[BrightKnight]

114. 50 million multi kW roof top PV systems would be much more effective.

Fifty million multi-kilowatt roof top photo voltaic systems would make a huge dent in the problem. They can produce energy for 30 years with no pollution. The excess energy could be sold back to the grid or used to produce hydrogen from water. The hydrogen could also be used to power your car.

A turn key system large enough to power your home for 20 plus years would cost between $8k and $17k. The cost of PV systems would go way down with increased demand and economies of scale. Also, power companies in most places are required to buy back your excess energy.

http://www.altersystems.com/catalog/sanyo-190-watt-solar-module-p-354.html
http://www.roofery.com/shingles/solar.html

----------------

The only way to solve the greenhouse gas problem is by source reduction. We generate too much CO2 for forests to absorb. Large healthy forests might slow global warming and they would certainly be required for a sustainable solution.

I doubt that a Kyoto approved sequestered carbon unit purchased today would be maintained 150 years from now.

[stepnw1f]

102. Right Wing Naysayers Would Rather Believe Bush was a Good Guy

than admit Global Warming? Nahhh... can you say stupid? I knew you could!

[calimary]

119. What's really scary is that some of these "right wing naysayers" welcome

news like this. Those among them who call themselves "christians" think that this will help bring on the End Times. They think they can light a fire under the hind quarters of God Himself, and force the Hand of the Almighty. Seems to me the ultimate of arrogance. Remember james watt, reagan's interior secretary? He was a religious wacko who actually testified in Congress at one point that when the last tree is felled, Jesus will come back (unspoken subtext: so why don't we just help that along a little, then?) - and he was dead serious.

[stepnw1f]

121. Those are Worse Than Stupid

they are maniacs inviting mass suicide. Fortunately they are a super minority.

[Lorien]

107. K&R

I know that some issues are "sexier", but this deserves our attention.

[brentspeak]

113. Kurt Vonnegut once said something about humans and the planet

Along the lines of "The Earth is shocked and appalled by what human beings have wrought against it, and has now kicked into self-defense mode."

[Rex]

118. Yes, thanks for letting it happen.

Thanks TIME and all the others in the MSM for playing good puppy to the McCorporate assholes. Thanks for letting the RW blast a megaphone into the ear of America! Like Rush says, it's just a liberal myth! A frat prank! Global warming is no more real than Puff The Magic dragon folks! What channel does Rush get played on? How many big media outlets let this asshole spread lies about our planet, for how long? This, like the levees in NOLA, could have been prevented.

[Beaverhausen]

122. Kick - I got my copy in the mail last night

Good for Time even if it might be too little too late. Lots of great information here.

[mvd]

125. And some places will also have harsh winters

The global warming doesn't always equate to heat. Mother Earth is in trouble and * is one of the ones neglecting her. She'll attempt to make her own corrections, and it won't be pretty.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

128. I didn't know Time reported on myths

Why do you hate your government?