Polls: Public Concerned About Immigration

[Lone_Star_Dem]

By The Associated Press

March 27, 2006, 2:43 PM EST

Most people in the United States think illegal immigration is a serious problem. A solid majority oppose making it easier for illegal immigrants to become legal workers or citizens.

Some findings in recent polling:

* Some 59 percent say they oppose allowing illegal immigrants to apply for legal, temporary-worker status, an NBC News-Wall Street Journal poll found.

* More than six in 10, 62 percent, say they oppose making it easier for illegal immigrants to become citizens, according to a Quinnipiac University poll. Nine in 10 in that poll say they consider immigration to be a serious problem -- with 57 percent of those polled saying very serious.
More...
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-immigration-polls,0,3556790.story?coll=sns-ap-nation-headlines

[demosincebirth]

1. I wonder who they think will work in the fields

for 10-12 hrs a day for us to have food on our tables?

[Bok_Tukalo]

4. Illegal immigration artificially depresses wages and costs

Sometimes, a head of lettuce IS worth two dollars.

[HemiCuda]

47. Correct

Here in Florida, the Migrants were protesting at Taco Bell. They are getting 50 cents a bushel, the same price for the last 20+ years. (Tomatoes).

Ok, here is Economics 101. There is an OVERSUPPLY of migrants to work the fields, If YOU don't pick for 50 cents a bushel, there are 10 more in line who will.

It's not Taco Bells' fault, or the farm owners. Want wages to go up? Have less illegal workers.

I favor sending ALL illegals back. Put a fence up, THEN have a guest worker program.

[barb162]

53. Yes. I would like to see business owners get fined bigtime

for hiring illegals over American citizens. The businesses are trying to break the back of the aamerican labor force and are just plain greedy

[saigon68]

8. George Lloyd Murphy

George Lloyd Murphy (July 4, 1902 – May 3, 1992) was an American dancer, actor and politician.

link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Murphy


He was born in New Haven, Connecticut of Irish Catholic extraction, and attended Yale University. He worked as a tool maker for the Ford Motor Company, as a miner, a real estate agent, and a night club dancer.

an infamous remark Murphy once made during a debate about the bracero program that granted temporary work visas to Mexican migrant farmhands:


Murphy had stated that Mexicans were genetically suited to farm labor; because they were "built lower to the ground," it was supposedly "easier for them to stoop."

[PVK]

14. Oh please. They are here ILLEGALLY !

What if we all marched into Canada and took jobs at under prevailing wages and a bunch of Canadians either had to do the same or not work this job at all?

The difference in costs are being passed along as profits to the companies who hire these illegals, and it's not being passed along to us in the form of consumer benefits of some kind.

Why do so many here seem to think WE need some kind of revolving door for illegal immigrants in this country? Our history is NOT one of just letting everyone in without restrictions. Read up on U.S. immigration history.

[kurth]

24. Germans, Poles, Irish, and most war/political refugees came here LEGALLY

Not to mention Africans, Chinese, etc. etc.

Yes, most Americans are descendants of immigrants, but LEGAL immigrants.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

41. Back when legal immigrant was "Do you have lice or polio? No? Ok."

There's a bit of a difference now. :eyes: And guess what, even when they came here legally, there were STILL people who hated them. Remember "No Irish Need Apply"? Or how about all of those Polish jokes. And look at Sacco and Vanzetti. It's an age old issue...everytime a group emmigrates in mass, the large bulk panics and the lawmakers delight because they have a new scapegoat.

[demosincebirth]

27. Tell ya what...as long as there is need, you are never

going to stop illegal immigration. Just like the war on drugs...it a farce

[Critters2]

29. There ISN"T need!

I'm surprised a union member (are you?) doesn't see this. The problem is cheap labor. Pay everyone a decent wage, allow unions into workplaces, and the "need" for illegal immigration goes away. Cheap labor depresses the wage scale and damages the whole economy.

Union YES!!

[demosincebirth]

30. Union has nothing to do with it. Thats a whole different issue.

What I'm talking about is Justice and Human dignity for immigrants who are treated like shit by some in this country. I don't mean to just open the borders, but to pass legislation that is fair and takes into consideration our economic needs with the needs of those seeking work from across the border.
On the other hand, maybe, we should just deport all Mexicans and Latinos (citizens or not)like they use to try to do in the 20's during the depression.




edit I really had to check to see if this was DU. I mistakenly thought that I was in a freeper site.

[Critters2]

31. Who are treated like shit because they aren't able to organize!

Unions have EVERYTHING to do with this!

[PVK]

36. I don't see that they have "rights" to organize if they are illegal.

That makes no sense.

FIRST, become "legal".

THEN, organize.

[Critters2]

19. You could have food on your table by paying workers a living wage

You DON'T have a constitutional right to cheap lettuce.

[primavera]

50. Well said, but don't forget about international trade repercussions

It appalls me how ready we are to blame immigrant workers for furnishing cheap labor when we are the ones who choose to spend our consumer dollars only at those businesses which offer the cheapest prices, knowing full well that they achieve those lower prices at the expense of workers. You're quite right: we have no right to cheap goods and services. Frankly, until we put our money where our mouth is and stop buying the $5 jeans from Mal-Wart and the 79 cent/lb chicken from Tyson's, we have no right to complain about the hiring practices we ourselves are expressly endorsing through our buying behavior.

I agree we ought to be giving our business to companies which hire US workers, who pay their workers decently, and who provide their employees with benefits. But bear in mind, especially for those businesses where labor is the primary cost of doing business - such as agriculture, construction, garment industry, etc. - that will produce a sizable jump in price (at least until we can persuade Congress to do something about the obscene salaries being paid to executives, which personally, I think has an awful lot to do with the cost of doing business, but I wouldn't hold my breath on Congress doing anything about that one anytime soon). When the price of US grown tomatoes jumps to $5/lb on account of our more worker-friendly policies, how many of us will continue to buy them when we can buy the imported tomatoes from Chile for $3/lb? How many countries will want to import tomatoes from us at the higher price? What will happen to our already crappy trade balance if other countries cease to buy our agricultural goods? How many jobs will it cost us then when we no longer produce competitively for an international market? Any brilliant ideas?

ed. for typos

[doc03]

38. I see you have a (Union Yes) avatar, how can you support

corporations exploiting the people filling jobs working in the fields so you get cheap lettuce? Whenever anyone attempts to raise the minimum wage the Republicans say (let the market place determine wages). I have been on strike (one time for almost a year) the Republicans said the Unions are greedy and artificially drive up wages (let the market place determine wages). They say Americans won't do the jobs, yet 14% of construction jobs are filled by illegals, why because companies like Walmart tell their subcontractors to hire them. They recently arrested some illegals here that were working on a Walmart project for $200 a week under the table, no taxes paid, no money going into SS, no health or other benefits, while we have Union construction workers that are out of work and thousands of people that would love to have a good Union construction job. If they can't find an American willing to pick fruit for the wages offered for the job, well offer them more until you find what wage the job requires. That's what the Republicans like to call Capitalism!

[sadiesworld]

49. Who will pick the cotton?

:shrug:

[TX-RAT]

51. Their called cotton strippers.

At least in this area their driven by either the owner of the farm, or contracted out. Cotton hasn't been hand picked for years.

[sadiesworld]

56. I was comparing the poster's statement with a sentiment

heard in the South about the effects of ending slavery.

[barb162]

52. Who did it before? Often teenagers and other

Americans looking for part-time jobs.

[rocktivity]

55. I think there are more than enough Americans who'd work in the fields

if it paid enough. And why should ANYONE in Amercia work 10-12 hours a day?

:headbang:
rocknation

[unlawflcombatnt]

58. Who'll work

No one will, and no one should.

If Americans won't work those hours for the pay employers are willing to pay, then the employers need to raise the pay. It's that simple.

If a job is too undesirable at a given wage, then raise the wages. That's what "market" forces are all about. If you can't buy labor for $5/hour, then pay more until you can hire the required amount of labor. This is just simple supply & demand dynamics. And all the Right-Wing Corporatists espouse "markets" and "supply & demand" when it comes to the prices they charge, and the salaries they pay their CEO's and executive boards.

Why doesn't the much touted "supply & demand" model apply to wages? If I can't find a house for $200,000, then I can either pay more or do without a house. If employers (who are raking in record profits) can't find Americans to do the job at the wages they're offering, they could increase the wage offered (and reduce their exorbitant profits to a less exorbitant level.) That's what supply & demand law and "market forces" dictate.

Are there just not enough American workers available? Absolutely not. There are almost 9 million American workers officially classified as "unemployed." But there are another 77 million working age Americans who are not "participating" in the labor force. Below is a copy of January's "Not-In-Labor-Force" numbers from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.



Increase wages and see if a lot of these 77 million don't start participating again.

When combining the officially "unemployed" with the "not participating" numbers we have in excess of 85 million working age Americans who are not employed. Most of them ARE employable if the situation was right. Do we really need more workers, with so many already not working? Of course not. What we need are more jobs, not people to take the ones we already have.

unlawflcombatnt

EconomicPopulistCommentary

Economic Patriots' Forum

___________
The economy needs balance between the "means of production" & "means of consumption."

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. I look on the immigration issue in a different way than many

I'm here only because my immigrant ancestors came over in boats, from the Mayflower to a tramp steamer out of Hamburg that took a family of Germans who didn't want to give their sons to the Bismarck war machine. What right do I have to deny an honest person the chance to make it in this country?

They say that the people from Mexico and Central America aren't interested in acculturating. Funny, the Hispanic folks around Berryville and Green Forest Arkansas that have come here to live are working hard on learning English, and are very patient with the few Spanish words I can muster up to help us communicate. If this were 1856 instead of 2006, would the Republicans be railing against the German-language newspapers that abounded in the Midwest? I doubt it, since Abraham Lincoln himself was a silent partner in the Nordamerika Zeitung.

What I am against are employers who want to hire illegals because they wish to pay them less than minimum wage. I am against companies who hire illegals because they want to avoid paying taxes. I am against bosses who know they have to hire illegals because Americans know they don't have to work in unsafe conditions, and know if they are hurt on the job, they are entitled to Workman's Comp.

I think the point is to give justice and safe working conditions to ALL workers. And to let those who wish to work and participate in the American Dream to come.

[primavera]

3. Great post, thanks for posting it - n/t

[DBoon]

6. Unfortunately, they DID rail against your 19th cent ancestors

The Know-Nothing movement was a nativist American political movement of the 1850s. It grew up as a popular reaction to fears that corruption was overcoming the major cities because of the political activity of Irish Catholic immigrants. It was a short-lived movement mainly active 1854-56; it demanded reform measures but few were passed. There were few prominent leaders, and the membership, mostly middle class and Protestant, apparently was soon absorbed by the Republican Party. In the South the party was not nativist, and allowed Catholics to join; and it was the major opposition to the dominant Democratic Party in the mid and late 1850s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know-Nothing_movement

Yes, this was mainly an anti-Irish movement, but in general there has always been a strong xenophobic element to American politics

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

12. thanks for the reminder

You are absolutely right. There was also bias against Germans, especially in the South. A bunch were massacred in Texas during the Civil War, because they were German and were assumed to be abolitionists (I don't know enough detail to know if they were).

[Bridget Burke]

26. Many Germans & other Central Europeans settled in Texas.

Some while Mexico still ruled. Of course, slavery was illegal under Mexico.

Some Texas Germans were against slavery & some weren't. They fought in both sides.

[rigel434]

5. This issue worries me

This issue concerns me politically because I see it as being the one wedge issue that the Republicans could use to hang onto power in 2006 and 2008. Their fear-mongering about terrorism has almost played itself out, and few people are buying Bush's lies any more. Plus, Republicans are about to confront the fact that most Americans want to keep abortion legal, and the Republicans have chased the abortion car for so long and now that they are about to catch it, Americans are very concerned. In light of these issues, I tend to be very optimistic about 2006 and 2008.

For this reason, I cringe a bit when I hear Harry Reid say unequivocally that we need to find a way to give citizenship to illegal aliens. Whatever the merits of that position (and I think it has some serious weaknesses- what about the blue collar worker who is the base of the Democratic party?) most Americans not only disagree with Reid's position- they do so strongly and with such fervor as to dictate voting habits. I understand the political calculus that, long term, it will be beneficial to have the support of Hispanic voters. But I want to get rid of the Republicans NOW and I worry that we're getting on the wrong side of this very important issue.

Also, forgetting the politics of the issue I'm not sure why we need to offer actual citizenship to people just because they broke the law and crossed the Rio Grande to get here. It's not practical or humane to deport them, but that doesn't mean we need to give the ultimate award of citizenship to illegal aliens. I favor a humane guest worker program but I oppose Reid's full citizenship plan.

[primavera]

10. How can this favor Repukes when the shrub is the one pushing for it?

I'm not sure I follow that reasoning. :shrug:

[peace frog]

7. I'm 100% in favor of legal immigration

but am 100% opposed to non-residents entering the country illegally by whatever means. Industry wants cheap unskilled labor? Fine, let them pay for it - in the form of heavy fines for hiring illegal workers and/or a living wage to all employees. Impose this and the demand for illegals will dwindle significantly.

Another issue: BushCo and their Rubber Stamp Congress like to boast they're keeping us safe from future 9/11 attacks but it is ludicrous to make that claim with borders as porous as ours (among their other incompetencies). It is past time for sane, sensible immigration reform - although we shouldn't hold our breath waiting for it given the current administration and their rollover lapdogs.

[coalition_unwilling]

15. It's The NAFTA swindle. Allow capital to move across international

boundaries, but restrict labor from being able to move across those same international boundaries.

[PVK]

21. Right on.

{Applauds}.

[Critters2]

22. Well said!

And great username to boot!

:hi:

[Triana]

25. EXACTLY what Peace Frog said...

...my sentiments exactly. Sealing our borders, furthermore, is part and parcel of national security. bu$hco cannot say it is 'strong on national security' while leaving our borders wide open - though I know Republicans and others may be stupid enough to buy that load of crap.

I'm for LEGAL immigration, but the endless tide of illegals pouring in here and the corprats that benefit from paying them below a LIVING wage needs to be STOPPED dead in its tracks. It's running the overall wages in this country DOWN and NO ONE needs that.

FIRSTLY, people should be allowed to come to the US LEGALLY - only.

SECONDLY, jobs should pay - NOT MINIMUM WAGE but a LIVING WAGE to all workers and that should be the LAW and it should be enforced.

THIRDLY - both those immigrants and OUR GOVERNMENT need to help those other countries fix whatever problems those illegals are coming here to escape so they'll be less likely to want to run here and so they are able to have decent lives in their OWN country. ILLEGALS can march against their own government corruptions as easy as US citizens can march against theirs - and they ought to be doing just that.
Problem is, for FAR TOO LONG it has been TOO EASY for them to ILLEGALLY enter the US and live here off of our taxpayer dollars, our economy, our land, in our system and with the benefits of our system, and to take our jobs (but at pissy wages instead driving our wages down)-- and of course the money-mongering corprats and the government that represents them (to the exclusion of the rest of us) are more than glad to oblige. It's parasite upon parasite upon parasite and like it or not, this has to be stopped. THIS ECONOMY CANNOT SUPPORT IT. Period.

SURE this country was built on immigrants - LEGAL immigrants - not illegal ones. I am all for LEGAL immigration and that IS what this country was founded on.

This is a v.unpopular stance, I'm sure, but that's my .50 cents worth.

[truthisfreedom]

9. weird how these numbers nearly coincide with bush's numbers.

[wookie294]

11. We're going to waste a lot of money fighting undocumented workers

Most people who come here illegally are working their asses off, but we're going to build a wall on the Mexican border. LOL!!!!

We're wasting trillions on Iraq, illegal immigration hysteria and the drug war. Our country is SO OVER. Damn shame.

[mtnester]

13. Illegals - the new Gays for 2006 n/t

[PVK]

17. As a wedge issue, yes.

But on any other basis, no.

Gay rights and "illegal alien rights" are two entirely different matters.

[coalition_unwilling]

16. No Mexican left me on my rooftop to die. (n/t)

[PVK]

18. WTF? n/t

[coalition_unwilling]

20. Sorry, brain is fried. What I meant is that we need to keep the

focus on who the real enemies of the working class are. Hint: the real enemies aren't Iraqi or Mexican.

[PVK]

23. Oh, gotcha. n/t

[demosincebirth]

28. You got it!

[shantipriya]

32. immigration

The same 62% don't think twice when hiring contractors ,etc who employ these illegals. Because of the cheap labor,the 62% benefit enormously. Would they be willing to pay higher pay to do the semi-skilled work be native Americans? I doubt it. What hypocrisy?!!!!!!!

[demosincebirth]

34. Amen, again!

[GetTheRightVote]

61. I watch carefully myself because I do not wish to do hire illegals.

And I would pay more to a legal working native American, it helps me to do so and it assists the country of my birth as well. They are truly my brother or my sister in my American family. You speak as if you are not oa native American ??

[fujiyama]

33. This makes sense

and is understandable.

Most Americans of whatever ethnicity had ancestors that came legally. Most hispanics didn't just sneak in. They entered with permission of the government, worked for many years, likely were sponsored by a company or a family member, then waited for many years, jumped through the millions of hoops the INS put them through and then became American.

I'm naturalized so I definetely favor legal immigration. It might be worth considering raising the caps to a more reasonably number for people to work here legally in border areas.

But I would rather not give preference to those that broke the law in entering. I understand that some now have kids that were born here and have worked here for many years. I think a few exceptions can be made with certain circumstances (that's why I think the Sensenbrenner bill is nasty and draconian) but I would rather the government reward good behavior - and that means giving those that entered legally on visas, even those for better jobs.

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

35. As a legal immigrant and immigration professional

I am very conflicted about the subject. Entering the U.S. lawfully is an extremely time-consuming and expensive proposition. Obviously, those with certain skills, extraordinary abilities and higher degrees are more advantaged, but the time required to obtain permanent residence (the fabled green card) is long (I know from experience).

In my job, we separate a 'legal' alien from an 'illegal' one easily (note that these distinctions do not mean anything derogatory toward the person or the human behind the immigration status; they are just distinctions based on the law). A legal alien is one who enters the U.S. after being inspected by an immigration officer at the port of entry (i.e. airport, border crossing, etc.) and one who has a permission to enter the U.S. and/or remain for a definite period of time (such as a visa). An illegal alien is one who enters the U.S. without being inspected and without permission from the U.S. government to do so. Those who overstay their visas are out of status and become illegal aliens by virtue of no longer being authorized to remain in the U.S. Unfortunately, as the law is currently written, entering without inspection or a visa is against the law. Utilizing false documentation (such as fake green cards and social security number cards that are readily available for purchase) to procure employment and/or other benefits is a crime. Hiring people without checking their lawful employment status is an illegal act.

I can't blame the alien for wanting to work in the U.S. because U.S. employers seek these illegal aliens to pad their profits and lower their costs. So, who should I blame? Most certainly those U.S. employers who not only knowingly hire illegal aliens, but also lower wages and benefits for all other workers.

At the same time, as a legal alien, I can't help but feel a bit discouraged by this talk of expediting the temporary stays of millions of illegal immigrants, whereas the emphasis should be on reducing the enormous backlog for the thousands of legal aliens who seek to immigrate to the U.S.

[PVK]

37. Beautiful summation from someone who has authority to speak.

I salute you.

As you said, it's not EASY to come here. But then it's not easy to go somewhere else, either. I've looked into emigrating and I can't qualify at all to go to some countries.

[sam the dawg]

40. thanks NYCparalegal

Thank you for your statement.
My neighbor is a "legal" immigrant who waited long and "worked hard" to come to this country.
I have respect for those who do honor to our system by playing by the rules and playing fair.

Too many americans, both legal and illegal, immigrant and non-immigrant, "cheat" the system.
This happens at all levels of society. The kenny lays, abramhoffs, john q public
cheating on his taxes, lies, misrepresentation, and misinformation.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Our system of freedom, priviledge and sucess through individual effort and acheivement, must have a foundation of integrity and basic honesty. Whatever promotes
that will heal. Whatever works against that, will destroy.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

42. Nice try, but no cigar.

Honesty in what? Following the law? All laws? What of laws that are wrong? Almost all laws that have been changed and would now be considered racist, sexist etc. began when someone purposely broke that law.

Also, there's a teeny difference between Jack Abramoff buying his way through Congress and getting massively wealthy in the process and some guy who wants to work for 3 dollars an hour as a laborer to feed his family.

You talk about playing by the rules...look how often the rules have been broken when the rules were unfair. It's not a black and white issue and to pretend it is is to do an ill turn to all of us. No issue is black and white. Not a single one.

[sam the dawg]

44. rules and law

You break the rules you don't like -
or perhaps find incovenient --

Jack is bad because he is rich, and the laborer is fine because he is poor.
Gimmie a break - not a cigar.

Rules seem "unfair" to you -- so you break them.
If everyone does that - we have chaos and anarchy.
Try driving on the wrong side of the road because you think it is unfair.
Do you take what you want whether it is yours or not and think you are not a thief
because you think it was unfair that someone else has it and you do not.

You want all the illegals and millions more each year? great -
you pay for them.
you give your job to them.
you give up your childrens' jobs.
you give up your water.
you give up your heat.
you give up your place in line.
It is just not fair you have these things and they don't.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

45. Yeah, damn the upstarts. Damn Rosa Parks!

She needs to follow the rules!


Oh brother.

Your view on the economy is way too simplistic. I thought we got past this kind of thinking in High School.

[sam the dawg]

46. Excuse you.

Rosa Parks was not an illegal immigrant.
Rosa Parks stood up to claim her legal rights as an american citizen.
She stood up and made others follow the rules.

Different issue.
Your view of illegal immigration is way too simplistic.
Grade school kind of thinking.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

48. So it's ok for American citizens to break the law?

Or are some instances different than others? Which is it? Because according to you, the law ALWAYS has to be followed.

[sam the dawg]

54. Rosa Parks was a citizen.

Rosa Parks was a citizen standing up for her rights.
Imagine Rosa Parks leaving US because her lot here was poor.
Imagine she went to canada or mexico and expected to receive there,
the full rights and benefits of citizenship.
Rosa did not run away. Rose stood up on her gound.

Why don't these people be like Rosa Parks - and stand up in their own country.
Fight the battles there for a better economy and a better life.

Why don't US citizens stand up againt those among us who employ and intice the illegals?

For decades migrant and temporaries have worked in US.
There is a legal way to welcome immigrants and workers.

What is happening now is a deluge that will "Katrina" the us systems and culture.
It has to stop.

[primavera]

57. "... a deluge that will 'Katrina' US culture"?

I thought it was jobs and wages you were concerned about. Did you just misspeak, or is it perhaps having to interact with a culture different than your own which really bothers you?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

59. "deluge the us systems and culture"...heaven protect us from the mexican

culture...

I agree with you completely that we need to prosecute the corporations that hire illegals. We need to prosecute them far worse then they are prosecuted now. I am not for illegal immigration, but I feel that we need to have compassion and understanding for the illegal immigrants. They are desperate people.

[LifeDuringWartime]

39. polls?

how about they look out in the streets :eyes:

[Minnesota Libra]

43. American Illegals Marching - yet they want our jobs.............

American Illegals Marching
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=7324

[GetTheRightVote]

60. They broke our nation's laws to be here period, we can not reward this.

They are here only after breaking numerous laws, this is a sign of disrespect for our nation which is based on those same laws. The business world is suppressing wages for over a decade now due to this illegal under class of people. Minimum wage would have gone up a long time ago if not for this under class, so many native born Americans are out of work or can not afford to work these type of jobs at these non-living wages until it is increased as it should have much earlier. When FDR created the minumim wage law it was so that every legal American could afford to have a home, food, clothing, etc. these illegals are destory the living wage theory.

Capitalism in the USA is broken with the capitivity of this under class of illegals which once legal would no longer serve their purpose at keeping down the wages but over-crowd the un/employment lines and those same businesses which once employment them would move on to the next set of illegals breaking our laws. Immigration must be returned to its purpose and proper use, to allow immigrants in only after proving themselves fit (healthy) and of some substance (some money) but only in sincerely needed areas which are few at best these days, if any at all. With unemployment up there is not a need for them right now or any time soon.