Man is charged $4,300 for four burgers

[zbdent]

http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/14204571.htm

Beane ordered two Whopper Jr.s and two Rodeo cheeseburgers when he pulled up to the drive-through window last Tuesday. The cashier, however, forgot that she'd entered the $4.33 charge on his debit card and punched in the numbers again without erasing the original ones - thus creating a four-figure bill.

<snip>

Terri Woody, the restaurant manager, said Burger King officials tried to get the charge refunded. But the bank said the funds were on a three-day hold and could not be released, Pat Beane said.

The hold is designed to prevent customers from spending money that no longer is available in their accounts and to let the bank confirm a transaction is legitimate before transferring funds, said Bank of America supervisor Joel Solorio.

<snip>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yup, there's that "compassionate" banking . . . guy overcharged $4,330 - if it weren't for the manager comping the meal and canceling the charge, the erring business would have immediate access to the money, but the guy would have to wait three days . . . sweating . . .

[dogday]

1. The wave of the future

Screwed-up computer entries and policies of Corporations.... :wtf:

[tatertop]

2. Wait till he gets the bill for 733 in overdraft charges!

Ain't America great?

[C_U_L8R]

3. One day someone is gonna press a button

and take all our money away... poof

[MADem]

5. Makes crazy grandma with the cash in the mattress look smarter, dunnit? nt

[pitohui]

until her house burns down...or gets flooded

my friend's grandma left $6,000 hidden in cash that they know of, that they found, in her house when she died

that house was underwater in katrina, had she still been alive, she would have lost her entire life savings in a day

who knows how much cash was left behind only to be discovered by the new home buyers -- or perhaps never to be discovered at all and now to be part of the general debris field covering the area

[MADem]

17. Sure, that's a worst case scenario, but when you cannot trust banks

ya gotta do something. Plenty of grandmas in the Depression years learned that lesson, and never got over it it, even after federal insurance protection of accounts.

Waterproof, high impact safes under the bed, perhaps?

[TommyO]

88. My ex's grandmother stuffed money

into every green-covered book in her library. They didn't find out until after they had sold quite a few of them at a garage sale after her death.

[coalition_unwilling]

25. Cash in the mattress is risky (fire, theft). Better to go with

gold bullion, I'd say

[Richard Steele]

26. They still sell Mason jars and shovels, you know. nm

[Jack_DeLeon]

82. I defiantely like gold and silver bullion...

It would also be good to invest in a decent small sized fireproof lockbox if you are going to keep any decently large quantity of paper money or other valuables at home.

[HemiCuda]

80. Not just cash in the mattress

Also years ago, a Refund check from the IRS could be put under the mattress, and 20-40 years later, it would be as good as gold.
Not today, they expire after 90 days. Then you have to request another one.

[WhiteTara]

38. they've already done that and replaced

it with worthless notes.

[Turbineguy]

58. One day?

He's in the White House now!

[kestrel91316]

72. No joke. That day will come. If you oppose the government, beware.

[MadMaddie]

4. That's why you use cash at places like these...I never

use my CC or debit card for fast food.....

[BOSSHOG]

11. That's so retro

but I agree. I use my debit card only to get cash and for gasoline. The only reason I use it for gas is because since prices have gone up all the gas stations around here require payment before pumping unless you use a debit card; I'd rather not estimate, give em money then get my change. Cash works fine and dandy. My wife keeps her Barnes and Noble gift card loaded up with cash and uses it often, but it is not connected to our account.

[BrklynLiberal]

6. Banks are right up there as the biggest thieves in the world.

If you deposit a check you have to wait days, or even up to a week for the money, but THEY have it immediately. The money they make with the float is amazing!!!!

[notadmblnd]

24. I found a way around this one...

deposit the check in the ATM. The money is available and in my account the next day. If I go to a teller, she puts a hold on it for 7 days.

[high density]

37. It depends on the bank

At the bank I worked at the funds deposited into ATMs would be "memoposted" to the account for immediate access, but when end of night processing kicked off all of the temporarily memoposted items are thrown away and replaced with proofed and imaged work. The standard clearing times applied at that point. ATM deposits were processed exactly the same way as deposits that were received at a teller. A seven day hold is extreme and it may be illegal. (See http://www.ots.treas.gov/docs/4/48702.pdf)

[notadmblnd]

47. it's been a long time.. but when I worked at a bank

ATM reciepts were processed as a general ledger item and were never handled by a teller. The computer operator was the person who generally processed GL items and they wouldn't necessarily have knowledge of all the teller rules, (I know I didn't) Of course this all may have changed sometime is the last 18 yrs or so.

[Realityhack]

68. Yeah it depends on the bank.

some let you have $200 others put the same hold on it. My way around it is to bank at the local credit union. My checks are always availible imediately.

[BIgJohn83]

32. Here's a Bank Fact that just stumps me...

If you cash a check at local banks here in NC, and you don't have an account with that particular bank, they charge you $5... I'm sure it is the same elsewhere...BUT the flippin check that I am cashing is coming from a person who HAS an account at that bank. WTF??? This blows me away... so each time I am asked if I know about the $5 fee I say, "yes I know... I'd hate for you to go belly up all because you didn't get my $5!" I don't shout it, but I say it loud enough to cause the teller some discomfort... I know it's not the teller's fault, but I am sure there were some Nazis who were just following orders.

[high density]

39. So do you have a bank account?

Put a little money in a savings account and the bank will cash your checks for free. I think it is fairly standard for banks now to charge a fee now to non-customers even if they're cashing a check written on the bank.

[Realityhack]

70. Realy?

I had never heard of that before. But then I live in MA and we have a tendency to have rather diffrent consumer protection laws than other places.

Honestly I do not understand how it can be legal. The guy writes you a check for a $50 debt but you end up with $45 or are forced to open an account somewhere to directly deposit it into. That seems more than a little shaddy to me.

Though the last time I cashed a check at the bank it was drawn on was some time ago and IIRC it was a payroll check so that could be diffrent too.

[Tight_rope]

73. Yes they are and that's why I left them all and went to a Credit Union!

[shoelace414]

7. This is why I have and want NO DEBIT CARDS

I do however have credit cards. but those don't suck my money out of my account automagically.

[kurth]

8. One more reason to stay away from debit cards

[Missy M]

9. When I use a debit card the machine always puts in the charge...

and then asks if it is correct and I have to answer yes or no before the sale is final. I wonder what happened on this transaction and why the machine didn't ask the question?

[shoelace414]

10. it was in the drive thru.

[Missy M]

13. Then this person did not use a debit card but instead used it....

as a credit card. Big difference.

[shoelace414]

23. yes and no..

it is a debit card using it like a credit card, not an ATM card transaction.

my bank automagically upgraded my ATM card to a debit card, I had to call to get them to send me an ATM only card because they cancelled my ATM card because they sent my a new debit/ATM card.

the ATM transaction requires a Personal PIN ID Number (inside joke), a debit card does not, and a fraudlent, or just incorrect transaction can drain all the money you have without much work.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

28. No, as a convience, many states have relaxed

the PIN requirements for drive throughs and other small purchases.

which has already lead to abuse, of course.

[Shakespeare]

35. Not necessarily.

When I use my debit at the drive-thru, sometimes I'm simply handed a receipt (and no, it's not a credit transaction--this is at a restaurant that uses ONLY debit cards). At other places, I'm given the keypad to punch in my PIN, and that device has no display showing a total.

[sui generis]

12. actually the erring business does not have immediate access

commercial accounts go through the same hold process, especially on items that are hundreds or thousands of times above the average product price.

While the bank may understand the story, the bank does not typically verify these kinds of issues on their own since it was caused by events outside of their jurisdiction.

A good bank manager may have gotten a waiver or a temporary deposit or at least a guarantee that no checks would be returned as long as they totalled under the $4300 amount and even given them a temporary no interest petty cash loan or a manual overdraft limit that would have allowed a cash withdrawal even with funds below zero, but it's not a requirement and in fact is something that could easily be scammed if they did it regularly.

I'm just not ready to wring hands over this one. Sometimes, stuff happens. It's doubtful the super/manager will ever close out his shift again without scanning for irregularities in credit card receipts, and I'd bet the bank will cover any checks that come in anyway while the amount is on hold, so what does it really matter?

[Realityhack]

52. Yeah they didn't get very creative about helping the customer

"A good bank manager may have gotten a waiver or a temporary deposit or at least a guarantee that no checks would be returned as long as they totalled under the $4300 amount and even given them a temporary no interest petty cash loan or a manual overdraft limit that would have allowed a cash withdrawal even with funds below zero, but it's not a requirement and in fact is something that could easily be scammed if they did it regularly."

A good store manager would have put down cash to secure such a transaction or used the stores credit to make it happen. But then its burgerking so what kind of service do you realy expect I guess.

I agree on sometimes stuff just happens.

[bluestateguy]

14. That dummy cashier should be canned

nt

[Debi]

27. Yeah, cuz everyone making $5.15 an hour should do each and

every task 100% accurate. :eyes:

Thank goodness for the perfect people out there keeping tabs on those of us with faults.

[Zhade]

29. When it comes to our money, you better believe they better be 100%!

I have sympathy - up until their mistake means I can't pay for gas to get to work, or medicine, or food, because my money's on hold from their fuck-up.

I'd ask for the person to be suspended, at least.

[Debi]

31. Think about each and every mistake you've made at your job

Now, should you have been fired for them? Should you have been sent home w/o pay for them?

Wow, perfection is on a rampage here.

[reichstag911]

44. It's not about perfection,...

...it's about paying attention. Before you hit that little "send" button (or "enter," or whatever it says), you look at the display and make sure the amount's right. Presto!

[Debi]

45. So you think the person who made a mistake should get fired? n/t

[reichstag911]

86. If they habitually repeat their errors, yes.

I do finance/accounting work, and it's amazing how much of my time is spent figuring out other people's mistakes because they're lazy, dim, and/or inattentive...the last of which is ultimately the most important.

[Debi]

87. But in this case we don't know how many errors were made or how often

We only know about one - and yes it was a big one. The poster I originally responded to wanted the cashier fired for the transaction that occurred creating this thread.

So based on only the information we have, the mistake at hand, should the cashier be fired?

I can't believe that there are people on this thread who have never made one big mistake. Lucky they are, I know I've done it and luckily my employer wasn't perfect either because I've not been fired for any mistakes.

[Realityhack]

49. So they are perfect about paying attention?

Any idea how many transactions these people perform or what their time quota is per transaction?

One way or the other you are asking for perfection. paying attention 100% of the time no typos, no looking at the wrong number by mistake, no nothing.

[Zhade]

74. My mistakes don't fuck up people's lives.

I work in TELEVISION, for crying out loud.

[Jack_DeLeon]

83. ROFLMAO...

I'm sure there are people out there that have had thier lives fucked up by something on TV at one point or another.

[Zhade]

94. Well, that's probably true.

Like, every time another "reality" show comes on - really good distraction from complex domestic issues!

[Debi]

84. Yep, television has NEVER f'd up a person's life

:eyes:

But since you've made mistakes, you should have been fired for them. At least that is the reasoning of the first person I responded to. How is it that YOUR mistakes aren't big enough to be punishable, but someone else's mistakes are?

[Zhade]

95. Why are you asking ME? I didn't advocate the employee be fired.

Aim you question at the guy who did.

(And anyway, I've softened my stance. See above.)

[Debi]

97. Thank you for softening your stance

I felt that people (like yourself) were defending the comments of the original post I responded to (since it was along the sub-thread that you posted). That's why I aimed the question at you.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

36. Do you know how easy a mistake that is to make?

You accidentally typed in some numbers twice. She probably had a customer asking something stupid and a manager telling her to do something plus the added jumble around her.

[Debi]

46. Too many perfect people on this thread - never made mistakes

They are very lucky and probably make more than $5.15 an hour not making mistakes! :bounce:

[mwooldri]

57. Probably the same people I get to deal with at work.

"something happened", such as a late fee, the terms & conditions of a special offer were not adhered to, etc., etc... My job at work is to clean up these financial messes and to make people feel good about it.

Oh yes, because of the company I work for, the 'company' makes mistakes too...

It's the usual damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario. You just can't please all people all the time.

Mark.

[LostinVA]

62. And, sometimes those machines don't cancel when you tell them to

And, she's probably evaluated/hounded by how fast she gets people through... blame the process more than the cashier. These things happen... there's no reason to fire an employee for this, or even write her up, unless she has a history of doing this. I know I wouldn't have, and I've been a retail manager before.

[Realityhack]

71. Yep.

and there is no reason they could not design or purchase as system where the amount of the transaction was automaticaly filled in but they chose to accept the cost of human error. Same thing when they decided to rush every order and not put on additional people. Such is the cost of a $2 burger.

[Zhade]

75. That's an excuse, but not a justification.

I didn't say I'd want the person fired, but if someone makes that mistake, they should be taken off that duty until it's clear they're rested or whatever in order to not make such a big mistake.

I'd expect them to take ME off the line if I did it, so it's not like I think I'm better than this person.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

81. Have you ever worked as a cashier?

Guess what? Sometimes those little credit card machines just plain suck and freeze and cause errors. It's a simple mistake. No need for self-flaggellation or punishment/rest.

For the record, I've worked both as a cashier and as a retail manager. Mistakes like that are a risk you take with a credit card. It was handled appropriately by management and there's no need to hold anything against that cashier.

[Zhade]

93. Yep. But more importantly, I've thought about this since last night.

I think the business, and not the employee, should be culpable. After all, we know corporations drive people into the ground, and overworked employees are going to make mistakes.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

96. Hey we're agreeing now!

It's true. When I was managing and the owner wasn't around, there were few issues and happy employees. When he was around, there were more issues and unhappy people. I knew how to be tough when necessary, but not to be a raging dickhead just because I could.

[Realityhack]

48. Thats a totaly unrealistic expectation.

Even you would make a mistake from time to time in a cashering job. You are talking about hundreds of transactions a day. Yes the error rate should be extremely low but zero is an unatainable and unrealistic figure.

Furthermore canning someone for their first mistake is prity harsh. You COULD try re-training the cashier, examining your policies (like trying to hit an unrealistic time goal on every transaction) to see if they contribute to the problem etc.

or you know you could just get all upset, fire someone, and um... not solve the problem at all.

[Zhade]

76. Please, note that I did NOT say the person should be fired.

NT!

[Realityhack]

50. BTW ever consider...

that it might be just as much the STORE'S fault? They are the ones who set things up so the cashere has to hand enter the amount in a very short period of time at a repetitive job. Thats practicaly begging for mistakes.

How about being reasonable and asking the store to 'front' you enough for short term expenses while the transaction is on hold? Its basicaly a typo not the worst anyone has ever done.

[Zhade]

77. I think your suggestion is very reasonable.

NT!

[FormerDittoHead]

15. Competition? "Free markets" don't work so good after all, eh?

Government is required to regulate markets to ensure competition.

Something it hasn't done since Saint Reagan took office.

"What we need are MORE mergers!"

[Realityhack]

53. Umm...

WTF does this have to do with free markets or competition? A cashier made a mistake. In what universe is that related to 'free markets'


Not that I don't agree with you about free markets but I do not see any way inwhich this has anything to do with them.

[FormerDittoHead]

69. Read Baldguy's post just below for your answer...

Competition breeds better customer service. Banks don't give a shit.

[baldguy]

16. "...could not be released." Bullshit.

Banks release holds like that every day. More like the bank WOULD not release it.

[Mr.Green93]

18. Sounds like the correct price

When the damage the fast food industry does to the environment and human health is factored in.

[teenagebambam]

19. This has happened to me twice

I was charged $600 for a Chinese dinner once, and $700 for a cheeseburger. The bank was cooperative and didn't charge me any fees or anything like that.

Anyway, why didn't I get to be in the news?

[TrogL]

20. What part of "read the display" don't people understand?

Cashiers hate me. I read along with the display as they're punching things in.

[high density]

42. They don't have 10-key skills and need to stare at the keys

What do you expect for $7/hour? :)

[Debi]

85. What cashier makes $7.00 an hour? n/t

[Realityhack]

51. Um...

are you refering to the casher or the customer?

You realy can't read along from the drive through so thats a non issue as far as I can tell. and the cashier admitadly made a mistake. Nobodys perfect and thats a high stress repetitive job with often un-realistic time/transaction goals. We aren't talking about an air-trafic controler here. Its a just above minimum wage employee at a fast food joint.

[stop the bleeding]

21. Hope he got cheese with those n/t

[meegbear]

22. Leave it to those douche bags at BOA to hold the account ....

why am I not surprised?

[high density]

40. What do you expect from a bank that size?

Granted all banks suck at various levels, but huge megabanks like BOA don't really give a shit about this guy's $4300. It's a tiny drop in the bucket to them.

[Lisa]

78. indeed -- one of my banks made more than $3 billion last year

... and it still feels the need to deduct a dollar from my account each time I use one of their own ATMs which is not at my particular branch, but one block away from it!

The other bank doesn't do that yet, but might be getting ideas since they got dinged for more than $2 billion in a class-action lawsuit for aiding and abetting Enron -- they fired 900 lower-level employees who certainly had no say in what was going on up there.

[lenegal]

59. BOA the worst bank in the world

The man should sue BOA.

I had an account with BOA.

They are legal theives.

Scum of the earth. That bank manager should be fired immediately. Asshole

[KurtNYC]

92. The worst - they used to put 14-day holds on my checks from

one account to another. Glad I don't have to use them anymore.

[Generator]

30. Yep this happened to us

But it wasn't fatal. Husband putting car work on credit card $300 or so-but he gives them debit card-they cancel debit card transaction-and charge credit card. But the $300 is removed from our available balance for 5 days! Luckily we had the money-the banks really know how to get theirs. And they wonder why people are in debt-which brings me to a related rant-our stupid BlueCross for the kid doesn't cover check ups-so we are left with a $200 bill (I thought they covered a once a year check-up-NONE of their individual plans covers any check-up over age 2-greedy mofuckers.) I don't know how poor people can live. The immunization charge was $100! (this they did cover after a $10 co-pay) Corporations are the REASON people can barely afford to live.

[Realityhack]

54. I hear that.

and IIRC health care is the #1 reason by far for bankruptsy... even for those who have insurance.

[sendero]

33. Debit cards..

.. are for people who cannot get credit cards. Having credit proves to be valuable once again.

[Realityhack]

56. not entirely

a lot of people do not understand the diffrence and use a debit card despite having credit cards. I would say having knowlege pays off again.

[LostinVA]

63. I have both -- why would you only use one and not the other???

I use my debit card as a credit card way more than I use my actual cc... because I don't like charging stuff unless I have to (car work, dental work, etc.).

[Realityhack]

64. There is a reason or two.

IIRC there is a legal diffrence. If the credit card is used fradulently there is a limit on the liability but not so with the debit (again IIRC). In any case many/most C/C offer excelent limited liability so that makes them a bit safer when your handing them to the gas attendent etc. As long as you 'earmark' the money and pay it off on time each month its the same diffrence... except that you may make $0.0002 cents more in intrest due to a higher average ballance in your acount.

[sendero]

65. I just can't ..

.... think of a single advantage to using a debit card. With a CC, I get the float, I get "cash back" and if a merchant tries to screw me over he'll learn about "chargebacks".

What advantage do debit cards have? Clearly if this dude had a credit card, this would be a non problem.

[Realityhack]

67. Yep.

It would have been a non-problem on an actual credit card.

[Realityhack]

66. Found a link...

From http://credit.about.com/cs/credbasicsfaq/a/080400.htm

Far from an athorotative sorce but it does provide several reasons to consider.

[zbdent]

90. Mrs. ZBDent and I use the debit card for groceries

Credit card for everything else, including gas. (get a "break" for bypassing humans and using the card at the pump - "cash back")

If I used the debit card for gas purchases, Mrs. ZBDent would go nuts trying to balance the checkbook . . .

[zbdent]

91. self-delete - accidental dupe

[thecrow]

34. Burger King should refund the money out of pocket

and just let the transaction go through.
If the man deposits the Burger King CASH, it should cancel out the transaction.

[0007]

41. Hope they're real yummy yummy and and juicy!

[Rex]

43. I have no credit history, fuck credit card companies in the ear!

Just a contemporary way of screwing people out of money. I get punished in big ticket items because I won't buy into the life of being in debt to a faceless money maker. I'm just waiting to see what the next level of artificial capital is. Double debt days! Pay your credit-card off with a new credit-credit-card!

[Realityhack]

55. well...

they already have pay your credit-card off with a new credit-card. And I think Double debt day is every pay day at walmart.

Seriously though unless you are independently wealthy you should get a card with no fees and cut it up. Build some credit history in case you ever need/want it. There are any number of totaly unexpected things that could cause you to actualy NEED credit never mind things like getting a home loan that prity much require it.

[lenegal]

60. I hate Credit Cards too

Easy money. Way too easy.

I stopped using credit cards when I went over my limit by three dollars. I was charged an over the limit fee.

I told the customer service rep that I would respect the credit card company more if they had come to my house and held me up at gunpoint.

Legalized theivery.

[Catherine Vincent]

61. What was that what's his name said on Lethal Weapon?

"They f*** you in the drivethru!":-)

[October]

79. This happened to my friend

Same thing! Except no one knew it till her checks started bouncing!!!

Nightmare!

[BiggJawn]

89. Next year's pricing unveiled a little early...

Hey, if the Murkan Sheeple will keep buying EssYooVees and paying $3 or more a gallon to feed the damn things, why won't they pay $1,100 for a YUMMY Cheez-Booger?

That's the BEAUTY of Capitalism!

"...And EVERYBODY has a Share!"-Milo Minderbinder