US 'unaware' of prayer room before assault

[cal04]

Iraqi and US special forces who raided a compound in Baghdad over the weekend did not know it contained a minaret and prayer room until they were inside, the US military chief said on Tuesday. The raid on Sunday, which freed an Iraqi hostage and left 16 Shiites dead, drew angry denunciations from Shiite political leaders who charged that unarmed worshippers were massacred in a prayer room of a mosque.

General Peter Pace, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, acknowledged for the first time at a Pentagon press conference that there was a minaret and prayer room in the compound. Gen Pace said the Iraqi-led force discovered it only after storming the walled compound, under fire from insurgents in buildings across the street.

"When they got into that compound they found there was a building, that it had a small minaret and a prayer room inside it. Some people are calling it a mosque, but that is what they found," he said. It was unclear from Gen Pace's account whether any of the Iraqis killed in the raid were in the prayer room or minaret, and if they were, whether they were firing on the Iraqi-US force.

"There was firing in the compound. I cannot tell you whether there was somebody in the minaret firing or not," he said. Gen Pace showed an aerial photograph of the target area detailing the source of the hostile fire. It showed automatic rifle fire and small arms fire from buildings on streets along three sides of the compound, but not inside the compound. Some Iraqi forces cordoned off the compound while others stormed it on three sides, he said. Gen Pace said the freed hostage identified two of those detained as his kidnappers. He said weapons and parts for making bombs were also found in the compound.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200603/s1603304.htm

US admits attack target contained a mosque
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/03/29/wirq29.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/03/29/ixnewstop.html

[baldguy]

1. "Unaware" of a minaret?

From Wikipedia: Minarets are distinctive architectural features of Islamic mosques. Minarets are generally tall, graceful spires, with onion-shaped crowns, usually either free standing or much taller than any surrounding support structure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minaret

like this?

[Marnieworld]

8. So you don't think the Iraqis will buy this excuse huh?

:sarcasm: This is pathetic. The Shias hate us now and they are spiritual allies of Iran. The sunnis already hated us so now we just have to piss off the Kurds and we'll get a trifecta and we know how Bush loves those.

[LibertyLover]

11. Perhaps the US military could claim that the minaret in question

was in stealth mode, or camouflaged as a Scud missile launching site.

[mike_c]

15. yeah, I can see how they might have missed that....

It kind of blends in with the skyline....

[leftchick]

2. it really does not matter at all what the US "says" happened

The fact is the Iraqis believe the worst, with good cause, and nothing the US military says can repair the damage they have done. Ever.

[SpiralHawk]

6. BushCo has lied so often about this war

That no one believes a damn thing they say, or any of the propaganda they catapult.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

3. Blah-blah-blah. Nothing we say is even remotely truthful anymore.

[sweetheart]

4. US 'unaware'

That pretty much says it, "US unaware".
It is the sum total of bush ultimately,
some would disagree, oh but au contraire,
unawareness is a common thread in all their activity.

Blubbery blundering bullishly beating bushily,
Thick armoured, soundly detached, forceful to decieve,
For all the awareness, in minarets, luminous punditry,
the resulting collective mass, a political unawareness sieve.

Aware makes no effort, no wars delcare,
to overturn anything other than observe leave,
inexcusable so horrendously their strategic err,
to disrespect the awake silence to thieve.
their little tent will be folding shortly,
don't forget your coat, paper vote them out discretely.

[muriel_volestrangler]

7. One of your best, sweetheart

:thumbsup:

[rocktivity]

5. GOOD NEWS!

Iraqis now have more leisure time because they don't have a local mosque to go to!

:party: (This post is part of George Bush's GULF WAR GOOD NEWS initiative.)
rocknation

[coalition_unwilling]

20. LMAO -- That's really clever -- thanks (eom)

[HeatherDawn]

9. If I am not mistaken it's a war crime

to attack a religious institution.....

That explains why they are claiming they were unaware.

[Solly Mack]

10. it is

Religious buildings are protected under the 1899 Hague Conventions and Article 52 of the first Additional Protocol to the Geneva Conventions.

[atreides1]

13. But

The Conventions don't apply to the US military, only to everyone else.

This is what strikes me as ludicrous, while I was serving in the US Army we had classes conducted on the Geneva Conventions, the Laws of Land Warfare. We were told what we could and could not do, yet with the "modern" military, the rules that the Romans used in their wars of conquest seem to apply.

[Solly Mack]

16. The classes are still given - everyone saying otherwise is lying

as when the claim was made the Abu Ghraib soldiers didn't know, etc...

classes are given while in basic - and again in AIT depending on the MOS..military police MUST take a more in-depth class on the Conventions - this includes NG and Reserves, as they attend the exact same basic and AIT as active duty.

In addition to that - the Conventions are, by regulation, posted in a prominent location where the troops are stationed - to not do so is in itself a violation.


however, under Bush, we're told the laws are quaint and that they don't apply

[atreides1]

27. Those saying otherwise

Are the troops themselves, they insist that they are given very little instruction on how to deal with the local population. When I was sent to the Sinai we were given a 2 day course on the Egyptians
and Israelis, with a little extra thrown in to educate us about the Bedouins. They even gave us a class on how to act in-country before we deployed to Desert Storm.

As for the classes, we received them at least annuanally while I was on active duty.

I'm sure that the soldier at Abu Ghraib were told, just like the troops of the 2nd Brigade of the 4th ID were told that it was a violation of the Conventions to take hostages, but that didn't matter
because their commander told them it was okay.

Maybe your husband's unit is being given these classes, but it doesn't mean that other units are doing it, or they're conducting a little "pencil" maintanance to meet their training requirements.
I've seen it done, so I know it happens. And yes MP's do get more intensive training then other MOS's
do, and yet it was MP's at Abu Ghraib who violated the Conventions!!!!

[Solly Mack]

28. I'm well aware of who violated the Conventions at Abu Ghraib

more than well aware actually - and I still maintain those soldiers were lying when they claimed they didn't "know" what they were doing was illegal - they knew.

Just as those that commanded Abu Ghraib knew, just as those in government knew, the soldiers at Abu Ghraib also knew.


The soldiers knew - and they did it anyway. They should have all gotten prison time and they should all still be in prison - as well as every single commander at Abu Graib, every private contractor, every CIA agent, and the entire chain of command , to include all civilian command...as well as Gonzales and all authors of legal papers justifying torture to Bush.

Same for GTMO. Same for Cropper. Same for BIAP. Same for Bucca... and so on and so forth.

Ignorance, either real or manufactured, is no excuse.


Soldiers that follow an unlawful order are just as guilty as those giving the order. Both deserve prison.

I make no distinction between the Bush Regime and the soldier on the ground committing a war crime or the officer giving the order. They are all the same to me.

And yes, it doesn't seem to matter when soldiers are willing to follow unlawful orders ...
but that in no way changes the fact that they are all, both officer and soldier alike, still war criminals when they either give or follow an unlawful order. They still should be charged...they still should go to prison.

My husband got classes on Egypt before he deployed to Egypt, as well... and he got classes on Iraq before he deployed into Iraq. Same with Korea ...same with various points in Europe. In point of fact, in his deployments spread over 4 continents, with 5 different units (within 2 different CORPS and IMA), in 2 different theatres - as well as CONUS, he always got yearly training... as well as classes in the various cultures. So while I'm also aware of "penciled in" training, I find it hard to believe so many troops missed out on convention training at some point in their career. Very hard to believe.

[saigon68]

22. They "MAKE UP" the rules as they go along

There is very little "Supervision" at all.

The officers are given little direction, I really believe someone above is ordering their subordinates to do these War Crimes-- but the people who bust the door in are either very naive about what they are doing or really enjoy kicking some rag-head ass.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

24. and didn't Nuremberg trials say "just following orders" is no excuse

We must _unsupport these troops and
speak out against immoral massacres

[gratuitous]

12. Another day, another story

And isn't it amazing that for all the shooting alleged to be going on before an undisputed 37 people turned up dead, not one casualty has been reported from the Iraqi-US force? All those bullets flying around, and none of them found one of "our boys" launching the raid. Clearly a sign of . . . euh, God's favor! Yeah, that's the ticket. Divine protection.

[IndianaGreen]

29. What happen to the story that the Shias had changed things

and had moved bodies into the room together with the blood, shell casings, and bullet holes?

Why doesn't the media start challenging the military's version of events?

[jukes]

14. General Pace

an REMF if ever i saw 1, was all over broadcast news w/ 8X10 glossies blown up to epic proportions, explaining that his EXTENSIVE INVESTIGATION showed the nearest mosque was clearly BLOCKS away from the carnage.

LIAR! a minaret attached to a prayer room constitutes a mosque. many of the multinuduous neighborhood fundy churches down here in jesusland are merely double-wides but are surely identifiable. a minaret is an unmistakeable edifice and are ONLY built as holy-places in the middle-east.

LIARS! i'm so ashamed of our government & military.

[MrPrax]

17. "Ain't no dang cross, ain't no dang church n/t

[Ignis]

21. Millitary intelligence? (nt)

[toopers]

18. Another question that remains unanswered . . .

What was the hostage doing in the place of worship?

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

26. What? questions raised by Media Whores who want to justify massacres?

! there are no unanswered questions.
Any answers you need will appear before your very eyes-
if you just open them-
just view the pictures -
just view the video-
and just realize the only ones spinning this is the American media.
The Iraqi people don't buy the lame ass bullshit American media spin-
neither does the rest of the world.

Maybe there was little bitty baybees in incubators being thrown out of the windows too.

.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

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[pinniped]

25. Has anyone ever seen a hidden minaret before?

Or not seen?

[Rex]

30. So it was only a small minaret...well that makes it all good!

Kill away! :sarcasm:

[0007]

31. Which lie are we suspose to believe General Pace?