Horses still can be killed for food -- meatpackers got rules changed

[pinniped]

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/04/03/MNGN8I2DKN1.DTL

Horses still can be killed for food -- meatpackers got rules changed

Zachary Coile, Chronicle Washington Bureau

Monday, April 3, 2006

Washington -- For years, horse advocates have tried to shut three foreign-owned plants in the United States that slaughter horses and ship the meat to France, Belgium, Italy and Japan, where it is served in restaurants as a delicacy.

Congress amended an agriculture spending bill last fall to ban using taxpayer funds to inspect horse meat, which would stop horse slaughter in the United States because federal law requires the inspection of all meat.

But the Department of Agriculture, lobbied by the owners of the plants and their allies in Congress and in the horse and cattle industries, issued new rules last month allowing the plants to keep operating by paying the $350,000 annual cost of the inspections.
---->
Lawmakers are pushing a broader bill -- sponsored by Rep. John Sweeney, R-N.Y., in the House, and Sen. John Ensign, R-Nev., in the Senate -- which would ban the slaughter of horses as well as the transportation of horses or horse meat for human consumption.
<----
----
More:
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/04/03/MNGN8I2DKN1.DTL

[bowens43]

1. I just don't get this, why is it ok to salughter cows but not horses?

Seems pretty silly to me.

[_dynamicdems]

23. Here's my answer: a copy of the letter I sent Senator Kerry thanking him

for co-sponsoring S.1915:

Dear Senator Kerry,

I am writing to you to thank you for your support of S.1915, the American Horse Slaughter Prevention Act. Because you have been working on so many hugely important issues and fighting tooth and nail for crucial legislation that affects our lives and our freedoms, I am deeply touched learn you still have time to stand up for our horses too. In light of the fact that our basic human rights are being slowly but methodically erased by this Administration, any issue of animal rights pales by comparison. This bill, however, is as much about people as it is about horses.

In NH, the Bush economy has hurt many working people. There are fewer jobs and the AB (after Bush) jobs that are available pay less than they did BB (before Bush). Horses are just too expensive for people to keep when they are struggling to keep a roof over their own heads. Many small farms have been sold and backyard horses have had to be sacrificed. These are not livestock, but beloved pets. It is heartbreaking for these people (many whom are children) to lose their horses. People are giving away their backyard horses and praying they will not end up in the hands of the killers.

The wealthy will always be able to afford the upkeep of their expensive show horses but the backyard horses owned by young 4-H’ers or Pony Clubbers have a greater chance than ever before of ending up in the slaughterhouse. It is well known in the horse community that there is profit in horsemeat and many horses given free to “good homes” actually end up being sold for meat.

To people who love horses, especially children, horse ownership is not a hobby: it is a lifestyle. Many young children learn about responsibility, hard work, sacrifice and love by owning a horse. It is not only a betrayal of the animal to allow pets to become livestock, but it is a betrayal of the values the child learned in caring for the animal.

Thank you, Senator Kerry. Thank you for co-sponsoring this bill for our horses and for our children who love them.

[Katherine Brengle]

41. I agree 100% with this.

What the hell makes horses more worthy of protection?

Custom? Tradition?

Bullshit.

[CottonBear]

49. Horses are not raised for food or eaten in the USA. See post #31. nt

[karlrschneider]

65. Horsemeat is actually quite tasty and healthful. You can be a vegan

and disavow all meat but lacking that commitment any flesh is equally acceptable.

[Debau2005]

72. I am doubting the "healthy" comment

You should check out what vaccines, and meds horses receive on a regular basis before you claim healthy as an attribute. There is not one in my barn that does not have strict warnings about human actions with them.

http://foxtrotters.tripod.com/health.htm

http://www.oregonequine.com/vaccination.htm

[karlrschneider]

74. Well, vaccines etc. do not affect taste. I doubt they have any more

than chickens, pigs, or cows. Whatever OTHER effects those chemicals may have, I don't think they have anything to do with flavor. We occasionally get "organic-free range" poultry from our Mennonite neighbor and we don't notice any difference in the sabrosity.

[Debau2005]

75. They may not affect taste

but the vaccines are highly toxic to humans, read the labels on some. Also you should find out what is in your poultry, pork, and beef. They are given high amounts of growth hormones, and antibiotics to make them "meatier" for consumers. Milk has become a concern because of the hormones given to dairy cows.


http://www.ejnet.org/rachel/rhwn382.htm
http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20020105/bob13.asp

[karlrschneider]

79. Well, I've already lived more than 20 years past what I expected

for the first 45 so none of that really matters to me. I'm a PETA guy,
People Eating Tasty Animals and nothing's gonna change that. Well, I suppose death will but by gawd I'm gonna enjoy what I like while I can.

[Karenca]

81. Well, good for you.

As long as your conscience doesn't bother you, right?

[Karenca]

80. There's significant diffrerence in taste

in organic, free-range, no hormone, no antibiotic, vegan-fed poultry than the supermarket poultry.

[Karenca]

84. They are ALL worthy of protection.

nt

[LWolf]

96. Horses are partners. Like dogs.

They do work for people, and they are "pets." There is something deeply wrong with eating your partners and friends, imo.

Cows are livestock kept for food.

I would no more eat a horse than I would eat my neighbor. Out in the pasture right now are the 3rd and 4th generation of horses that have been in my family for 40 years. As a kid, I spent more time with my little mustang than I did with other kids. She was a better listener, and smarter, too, when it came to knowing what was "safe" for us to try and what wasn't.

While I am a pacifist by nature, I would take arms against anyone who thought my horses might make a good meal. They are more than worthy of my protection. So are the many animals out there that are less fortunate; those that have been exploited and ill-used at the hands of people already.

Different animals have been considered "sacred," or "partners," or "food" in various cultures. Intellectually, I understand that people who haven't grown up in a culture that considers a dog a pet or a working partner might think it was ok to eat them. Once you've known a dog, though, and known their capacity for loyalty and devotion, it becomes harder. Once you've known and worked with a horse, and appreciated the amount of trust it takes for them to interact in the human world, it becomes the same.

[bee]

117. So its OK to eat cows because theyre livestock

but not ok to eat horses because theyre 'partners'?
Is that really your logic?
Livestock animals have nerve endings too. They feel pain just like horses. And EVERY animal can be a pet even though it may not be your personal experience. I had a pig that did tricks, stayed inside, wore a leash, rode in the car, slept at the foot of the bed & came running to the door every time I came home, tail wagging. Yep, just an everyday livestock pig. No different than the ones youre ok with eating. My pet could have been your porkchop.

[LWolf]

119. I don't eat friends or partners.

That's really my logic.

If cows and pigs were my friends, I wouldn't eat them. I know that people have made pets of pigs. If pigs can be friends and partners, perhaps they shouldn't be eaten. I don't eat pork, anyway. These days, I eat mostly eggs and fish.

You bring up a sticky point. If animals can be devoted, loyal, trusting, and form partnerships for company or work, should they be less respected than our own species? Is it ok to be species-centric?

You're not going to resolve that issue on this thread. I think it will take generations to reach consensus on that one. Each individual is somewhere on the continuum of evolution; the further we evolve intellectually, socially, and ethically, the further we will get from species-centrism. In my opinion, of course.

Meanwhile, I don't kill without good cause, and I won't eat species that we've taught to trust us and that we've depended on.

[astonamous]

2. Thank you for posting this.

Here is the group I have been working with along with my friend Jennifer Pryor.

http://www.saplonline.org/horses.htm

We have even been putting brochures in with the merchandise we sell on Mr. Pryor's website.

This is one of those "no brainers", but for some reason the horse slaughter continues. And even if you don't care about the horses, remember that all of this affects the shrinking number of wild mustangs and burros that have been left unprotected for the first time since Nixon.

[China_cat]

3. I don't understand why this is a problem.

I love horses. They're magnificent animals. But I love horsemeat and wish I could buy it here.

Edited to add that if they were farmed like cattle for the meat, the wild population wouldn't be in such danger. That would mean making horsemeat legal for human consumption. Which I can't figure out why it's not.

[Karenca]

5. If people keep eating them,

there will be no horses left to love.

Dogs are magnificent creatures too. I would never eat one.

[China_cat]

6. If they are FARMED for the meat

like cattle, there will always be horses and the wild population would be left alone.

And don't say never, you don't know what you'd do under dire circumstances. None of us do until we're there.

[Karenca]

8. Well , they are not.

and these "magnificent animals" are being cruelly tortured.

So, what dire circumstances have you endured that made it necessary for you to eat a horse?

[China_cat]

18. I ate horse because I wanted to see what it tasted like.

And I love it. A red meat with little to no fat but still having taste and being tender.

My comment about dire circumstances was meant for your comment that you'd never eat a dog. You don't know what you'd do if it came down to it. The only thing you can say is what you HOPE you'd do, but until you're faced with it, you don't know for sure.

[Karenca]

24. Good for you!

So Mr. Ed was delicious. I'm sure it was worthwhile fpr him to endure hideous pain and death so you could enjoy a tasty morsel of his tender, low-fat flesh.

No, I wouldn't eat my dogs. And, I won't eat my children either.

[Karenca]

27. Anyway, why do you keep bringing up "dire circumstances".

You ate the horse simply because you wanted to eat a horse.
There were no dire circumstances involved.

[The Wielding Truth]

37. It's really not a part of the US culture to eat horse meat.

I am disgusted by it, but I understand in some cultures it is usual.It's not necessary to bring this taste to America. Why start a new trend of consumption. What's next? mmmm..... monkeys are yummy?

How selfish and shallow can these Repukes be???

If you need your "delish" horse meat raise one and butcher it yourself!

[Igel]

102. Some peoples find monkeys yummy.

That means there's a market for the meat. Quechua have traditionally eaten guinea pigs. Others, dogs or rats. Kazakhs drank mare's milk; and there's every indication that horses were probably initially bred as much for meat and milk as cows and goats were. Still, I've known kids with pet goats (no pun intended) and ducks and chickens that thought the idea of goat meat abhorrent. I had a friend with pet quail. Most still ate duck and chicken; the quail-lover hated the idea of cooked quail.

Now I can get goat and quail easily at a few Mexican restaurants, goat at several halal butchers. Chicken and duck all over the place. Those heathen foreigners.

People assume their emotional preferences are somehow universal, or should be made universal. Sometimes it involves horses, sometimes steer, sometimes ducks. Vegans don't like any animals slaughtered. I've known vegetarians that were more or less non-meat eating, sort of on a sliding scale.

I had pet fish and, for a while, a pet crab. The horrors of people eating fish and crabs! Maybe if they raised their own ...

(For the record: I think horse is unclean, right up there with pig and crab, but if my sole criterion were healthiness of the critter, free-range horse would certainly trump shed-raised chicken.)

[CottonBear]

42. See post #31. n/t

[newblewtoo]

47. In the early seventies

I remember the cost of beef going 'out of sight'. Had a co worker who was eating a great looking lean 'beef' sandwich. Yes, it was horse meat. He said it was sweet tasting and a little stringy.

You don't want to know what people ate when I worked for social services. Really. Blocks of cheese, spam, peanut butter, and such only lasted so long. Rabbit was a popular option domestic or not.

Sometimes I wonder if we have made any progress at all.

[Debau2005]

9. Just what is needed is more "farming"

Have you ever visited a meat production facility? You should see where your pork, chicken, and beef come from. I would hope that horse meat "farming" never comes. We already torture enough animals to satisfy meat consumption without adding more to the death list.

If you want to see what horse meat farming would probably look like, visit a PMU farm, where mares are kept pregnant to produce urine for women's Premarin medication.

[China_cat]

17. I do know where my meat comes from

I've even helped butcher. And in Europe you have special horse butcher shops where you see what's being cut for you. Your anthropomorphizing animals just doesn't cut it at all.

[Debau2005]

21. So you have no issues

with eating an animal that has been tied to a grate in a stall to small to turn around in? Or in chicken coops where the living and dead are intermingled? Or animals force feed hormones and antibiotics to make them "meatier"?

[CottonBear]

36. Europeans eat horse meat. We don't. They can eat their horses. n/t

[_dynamicdems]

44. Anthropomorphizing animals = electing George W. Bush. n/t

[_dynamicdems]

25. If it is Trigger or my starving kid, Trigger would be sacrificed, but

otherwise, no thanks.

[CottonBear]

35. American do not eat horses. Europeans and the Japanese do

so let them slaughter and eat their own European and Japanese horses if they want to. If they like horsemeat so much why can't they eat their own horses?


I am a horse owner and I am opposed to horse slaughter in the USA for food purposes.

[robcon]

101. In other words you want to legislate your own tastes.

I don't care if you don't eat horse, but why do you think you should prevent me from eating horse?

[CottonBear]

116. We shouldn't eat companion animals like horses, dogs and cats. n/t

You're welcome to go to Japan or Belgium and eat all of the horse meat you want to.

[Debau2005]

7. One reason it is a problem is theft.

In the areas surrounding the slaughter houses horse theft is a huge problem. Horses for human consumption must be fairly healthy. The slaughter houses are supposed to check the horses for tags, brands, or any identification and they do not. Imagine your horror to come home, and find your horses gone...Nothing left but an open fence and tire tracks. And don't think that the slaughter is humane, it is not, and neither is the transport. But then again the slaughter of any animal for food is not humane. They are usually lifted by their backends, throats slit and allowed to bleed to death. If this is where you want your meat to come from, enjoy!

[China_cat]

19. Like I said, I've helped butcher.

Dressed out game. I have no illusions.

[_dynamicdems]

32. That's really kinda sad. Faced with that choice, I'd keep my illusions.

And as far as dressing game goes, some of the sponsors of this bill are hunters themselves. Horses are not game and they are not a food animal. They have served mankind since the first human ever roped one and made it a servant and a friend. Eating horses is betrayal.

Horses gave man the power of speed and mobility and horses rode bravely into fierce battles with men upon their backs. I'm not surprised to see humans who have betrayed each other also turn on the animals upon whose backs our very civilizations were built. This is what we are: just look at the state of the world. But it is also what we strive to transcend. We want to make the world better and that includes being more honorable. It is simply not honorable to slaughter horses for food. They are noble beasts and they have served our needs for centuries.

We owe this species sanctity and sanctuary.

[Robb]

58. You're thinking of dogs

Dogs gave man the power of speed and mobility. Then it was galley slaves. Horses came later.

[_dynamicdems]

77. In primitive cultures, you are correct. I was referring to civilization

and the ability to travel from city to city. Horses helped in the building of cities and their place in history is well documented. However, I don't want to see slaughter of dogs for food either.

[Robb]

83. Or galley slaves, I assume. n/t

[_dynamicdems]

85. Galley slaves aren't much use on dry land. n/t

[BlackHeart]

91. Why would you deify an animal?

Doesn't seem right.

[muriel_volestrangler]

111. Cattle were used to pull ploughs long before horses

and that's a much more vital part of what civilization was built on - but only the Hindus seem to think this gives them a special place in society where they're not eaten. As you say, horses were more for making war with. Why does that make them more 'noble' than cattle?

[CottonBear]

33. You forgot the sledgehammer blow between the ears used to kill them.

I've seen the pictures in Practical Horseman magazine. It is an awful sight. :cry:

[China_cat]

38. What's the worst is having to pick the

shards of skull out of the brain. Kinda slimey and hard to hold onto.

[CottonBear]

45. That was rude and mean. n/t

[China_cat]

46. Also true.

[CottonBear]

48. You had no reason to post that except to inflame and upset.

If you want to contemplate eating horse brains and picking out broken bits of skull (and I don't think that even Europeans do that) then you should keep that thought to yourself.

[Karenca]

59. You're an animal lover, I see.

:grr:

[bmbmd]

52. I toured the Great Western Meat company in Whiteface, Texas

several years ago. The horses were put down with a blow to the forehead right above the eyes with a device they called a "Knocker". It was loaded with a blank twelve gauge shotgun shell. When fired, a 3/4 inch steel rod extruded from the "knocker" about four inches, instantly penetrating the horse's skull and brain. Like Matthew Silverhammer, you could be sure that they were quite dead. I didn't see any of them move. They did not appear to be panicked as they were ushered on to the kill floor. To be sure, it was an horrific sight, but I did not see the animals suffer. Incidentally, the animals were bought at auction and moved to a feed lot near the facility. They ranged freely in a pasture, and their feed was supplemented with grain and commercial horse chow in order to improve the quality of the meat. The plant employed a full-time veterinarian who examined the animals for cancer, disease, and parasites. An on-site lab tested each and every horse. Sick animals were sent to the rendering plants, and those healthy enough for human consumption were fattened up for butchering. After butchering, the hanging quarters were hung in refrigerated trucks and and shipped to Montreal. From Canada, they were placed on ships and eventually made their way to Belgium, which is apparently the largest consumer and distributor of horse meat. Gross, but slick and highly profitable.

[Debau2005]

66. If the horses were not panicked

then they were drugged. Horses are very perceptive and panic easily. They would have smelled what was going on before them and would have been wide-eyed and sweating profusely if not neighing loudly.

I am sure the "pasture" shown to the public was not the same that was used on a more regular basis. To pasture and grain feed a horse would be highly cost prohibitive to companies like this.

How many pastures did they have? Pastures have to rotated, so they can be seeded and fertilized, while this happens that pasture has to be closed for a period of time, and the horses rotated to another area. I am currenly down two pastures because of the spring grass planting.

[bmbmd]

99. Good question.

I asked the guy the same thing, and he denied that they were drugged. As to the size of the pasture, it probably totalled in excess of three sections. It went from hiway 114 south to the golf course and northe to the gin. The hiway frontage was over a mile. It was, of course, cross fenced into smaller one to two hundred acre parcels.
The feed lot proper was probably a hundred acres.

[CottonBear]

115. The horses were drugged. n/t

[bee]

118. a sledgehammer between the ears is humane compared to

what they do to cows. For example, Shove it in a huge metal drum, turn it upside down, slit its throat, rip its trachea out, dump it out of the drum, then let it stumble around gushing blood & screaming until it (finally, minutes later) dies. They should be so lucky to get a sledgehammer between the ears.

[CottonBear]

31. Because they are companion animals not food animals in the USA.

They are not raised for food in the USA and, therefore, should not be slaughtered and sold as such overseas. Let the Japanese and Europeans slaughter and eat their own horses (or not.)

Horses are given many vaccinations, wormers, supplements and medicines that are clearly labeled NOT FOR USE IN ANIMALS TO BE CONSUMED BY HUMANS. Many race horses and some show horses are given illegal steroids and other performance enhancing medications that are dangerous to humans.

Many mares are given powerful hormones to prevent heat cycles during show seasons. These equine hormones are so powerful and dangerous to women that special gloves and precautions MUST be taken to avoid ALL human contact with the hormones so as not to cause severe damage and problems to the woman's body and menstrual cycles and hormone levels.

Do you really want to eat horse meat from a horse ridden with cancer, worms, parasites, bacterial infections, melanomas (many grey horses get these), EIA, EPM, strangles, respiratory viruses, equine influenza or any other illnesses or maladies that typically lead to the death and/or humane destruction of equines? Horses, unless they break a leg or colic severely, usually live very long lives. At the end of life, just like people, they can be quite infirm, ill and weak.

Would you eat a 30 year old, sick, cancer ridden cow? I have a horse currently and I've had to have a horse put down in the past(ruptured colon) and I've seen several old horses put down because of disease and illness. Horses can live from 20 to 40 to even 45 years.

Food animals (cattle, lamb, goat and chickens)are killed at very young ages (6 weeks to one year)

There are three slaughter houses in the USA (IL and TX). Many people don't realize that when they sell a horse at auction that it could be taken to the slaughter house. Many people have horses that shouldn't and, thus, many don't know what happens to auctioned horse and ponies.

[Debau2005]

50. Excellent point!

I too am a horse owner, and the meds and vaccines are NUMEROUS.

[CottonBear]

55. Thank you.

You are a voice of reason in this thread.

I think that the pro-horsemeat people know absolutely nothing about how horses are reared, fed, vaccinated, supplemented and treated with a variety of drugs: both legal and (sometimes) illegal.

[Debau2005]

64. Then again

I don't think most people know what is in their beef, pork or chicken either.

[Robb]

56. Right. You want me to believe

...you'd be OK with horses being raised for meat, IF they were raised with practices similar to other food animals? :D

I don't buy it for a second.

[CottonBear]

86. I never said that. I do not believe in eating horses.

They are noble companion animals who helped mankind progress and prosper. They have toiled for us in war and in peace and on the farms and in the fields. Untold millions died in war and on the job. We owe them.

If Europeans or Asians want to eat them then that is their call. They can eat their horses. In the USA, we do not eat horsemeat.

[Igel]

103. Before horses toiled for mankind in war and on the farms,

they pulled his carts, gave him milk, and gave him meat.

They were the cattle in areas where cattle did poorly.

Their use in chariots. Part of the reason they're not food animals in most Western lore is precisely because they were valued and honored for warfare, and so helped the Indo-European expansion in many areas. Scythian leaders would be buried in their kurgans with their horses, along with the skulls of their enemy that they used as cups. Little record remains of what happened to loser, non-war-capable horses.

Their use on the farm, instead of as the farm, came even later.

[Jersey Ginny]

51. As a horseowner, my concerns are practical

I used to attend horse auctions where 50% of the horses went to the killers, a company at the time called "AmFram." The problem is that these horses were the sick ones, the drugged one (to keep them calm in the auction atmosphere), and you never knew what drugs these horses had in them. Besides the American distaste for the idea of eating horsemeat, which I share, I wouldn't eat horsemeat b/c of the utter lack of regulation. These horses can and do have anything and everything inside their bodies.

[LWolf]

97. I don't understand why we don't just farm

all the "underclasses" for meat. After all, there is an abundant supply, and they are not at the same level of society as some. Why not eat them?

The above statement bears the same weight with me as yours. If you can farm and eat working animals that have partnered people for a few millenia, why not farm and eat all the rest of the creatures we've partnered with? Dogs? Day laborers? Cats?

There is something deeply wrong with seeing anything outside your own race, class, or species as exploitable, imo.

[Deja Q]

4. I'm off to watch that episode of All in the Family.

Season 4 (when the show started to lose its edge and become superficial), but the horse meat subplot was riotously funny.

And what is wrong with eating horses?

If I was allowed to vote on the issue, I'd say "Nay". Or do I mean "Neigh"? :rofl:

[MuseRider]

10. As a horse owner

I can say that one of the problems I always hear about is the fact that many of these horses were loved family animals. The way they are treated after they end up property of the "killer man" is horrible, especially for an animal that was for most of its life loved and cared for.

Most of us have a close relationship with our animals but some do not. Even if they are simply an investment they are cared for closely.

I would say that cattle are not treated any better but our basic relationship with cattle is different.

The treatment of all of these animals is the reason that I do not eat red meat, am working on getting away from chicken and fish too.

I am holding and caring for a couple of horses right now that are of no use to me other than as companions. I simply love them but have been advised by numerous people to sell them to the killer because they are useless. I find that attitude appalling but that is just me.

[LeftyMom]

11. Why the hell does the USDA let these dirty mofos get away with this

when it's clearly the will of congress and the people that these assholes stop killing horses. Oh wait, it's because they're the USDA. Corrupt corporate asskissers who care more about the industries they're meant to monitor than the people and animals they are supposed to protect. Nevermind. :eyes:

[redqueen]

13. Yup, nailed it.

And until we get public financing of campaigns, this and other similar industries will keep usurping the will of whomever they darn well please.

[Democrats_win]

12. christian law: no eating beasts of burden.

[Debau2005]

15. Interesting!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taboo_food_and_drink#Horses

[Karenca]

16. Kosher dietary law:

"Except for horses, they are not herd animals and wouldn't do well being herded to a slaughtering pen. They all smell and react strongly to the smell of blood, even when it is not the blood of their own kind. They are all sensitive to death's sights and sounds; they all react badly to the sight, sound and smell of the death of their own kind.

People who claim to know say that these animals sometimes even seem to "smell" the coming of death. So they cannot be slaughtered painlessly, in any practical context: they can't be slaughtered economically, without terrifying them. Neither can they be killed painlessly in any other manner."

[HereSince1628]

22. But horses do live in groups, don't they?

Not to contradict a religious belief, but it's always been my impression that wild horses do live in groups.

I've always wondered just what sort of social needs aren't met for those horses forced to live independent of other horses.

[CottonBear]

34. They can become very lonely and depressed with out other horses.

Even stallions who are pastured or stalled separately can see and smell and talk to other horses. Many stallions are given pet companions like goats, pigs and ponies plus kitties for the barn in order to keep them company.

[daleo]

89. How about cavalry horses then?

It must have been dreadful for horses to be used as instruments of war for all these centuries. Seriously.

[CottonBear]

100. That is exactly why we owe them respect now.

Mankind would not be here now without the horse. It was the horse that gave us transportation, power and speed. Horses have been beasts of burden, farm amimals and used in war and conquest and exploration by civilizations in Europe, Asia, the Middle-East and the Americas.

We owe them respect and we need to care for them. We know so much more about what they need and how to make their lives comfortable, healthy and safe as they work for us and with us in the modern age of the 21st century.

[_dynamicdems]

26. Very good point. They have already served enough. There was even

a case of a famous race horse that ended up going to slaughter in Europe. The equestrian community was outraged and well they should have been. This was a horrible fate for an animal that had served human beings all its life in an industry that can be very demanding and even cruel at times.

[u4ic]

67. And more recently, a Kentucky Derby winner

was slaughtered in Japan. (Ferdinand, 1986 winner)

[Debau2005]

73. link

http://breeding.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=17051

[Karenca]

82. i just read the link

That is so very sad.

[Igel]

105. But kine are beasts of burden.

They're the quintessential clean animal.

[pocket]

14. They're Made of MEAT!

just sayin'

[China_cat]

20. heheheheheheheh

I liked that story, too.

[_dynamicdems]

28. Human flesh is also meat, but I wouldn't want to eat it either. n/t

[MercutioATC]

29. Right or wrong, we've created a distinction between humans and animals.

Horses (and puppies and kittens and dolphins, etc) are animals. Equating their meat with human meat doesn't work.

[_dynamicdems]

39. Smacks of creationism to me. I'm more of an evolutionist.

We are top of the food chain, no better and no worse. Of course we do strive to be better, to rise above the law of the jungle so to speak. That's what makes us different from the animals, huh? (Success not withstanding.)

[MercutioATC]

95. If that's the tack you're gonna take...

...then it IS about "survival of the fittest" and we're still free to eat horsies and puppies and kitties.

The bottom line is that it's not logical, it's emotional. Nobody complains when we eat ugly animals, just cute ones.

[China_cat]

40. You might not want to but you can't say

what you'd do if forced with that choice...eat what's available or die.

And yes, I keep bringing this up for the simple reason that nobody knows what they'd do until they are faced with the circumstances and trying to say that you do know is truly fooling yourself.

I'm sure the people of the Donner party and those athletes stranded in the Andes would have been horrified if you'd told them ahead of time that they'd be eating their friends, relatives and teammates. But the urge to survive is strong.

[Karenca]

54. No, you insist on bringing it up to justify your first post

in which you stated that you wish it was easier for you to eat horses
in the U.S.

[_dynamicdems]

78. I agree with you. The urge to survive is strong and the urge to see

our offspring survive is even stronger. When it comes to starvation people do things that they wouldn't choose to do unless desperate.

Our horses are not being sold to or marketed to starving people. They are going primarily to gourmet markets in other countries. If we do not eat horse meat in this country, it is hypocritical to slaughter our horses for the profit garnered from sales to countries that do.

Hunger is a world issue and we all want to see starvation eliminated globally. Breeding horses (or elephants for that matter) will not help starvation. It is primarily an agricultural issue and an overpopulation issue. Livestock takes more resources to provide food than does agriculture. Animal slaughter has been boosted as an economic means of food to some degree by growth hormones. This isn't a good thing.

[0007]

30. So is man!

[China_cat]

43. This is what pocket was referring to.

http://www.terrybisson.com/meat.html

[pocket]

53. yes :D

[MisterP]

57. that's a rather low standard, really

most chordates are made of meat

[Sgent]

60. I don't get it

why is cow or pig eating any better or worse than horse eating?

[Karenca]

61. It's not n/t

[Debau2005]

62. It is not

and I don't eat them either.

[Karenca]

68. I don't either

And why someone would advocate adding them to the list of those poor animals that are slaughtered for food is beyond my comprehension.
And to keep asking this inane question "if you were stranded and had nothing to eat', blah blah.

We've got a myriad of choices........this is beyond dumb.

[Debau2005]

71. I became a

vegan because of animal cruelty in the "food" process, but have found that my health is better, my cholesterol is lower, I have not had a migraine in over a year, and I am finding new foods every day that I did not know existed. I have re-learned how fun it is to be in the kitchen or to shop for groceries.

Regardless of my position on meat, the horse end of it is horrifying to me as a horse owner. Mine is micro-chipped, but nothing stops someone from driving up when I am not at home, loading him on a trailer and driving off with him. The slaughter houses DO NOT check for micro-chips, even though it is required by law.

[tll]

63. I'm trying to educate myself

As a former horse owner and someone who's ridden and worked around barns for 20 years. The slaughter issue is highly charged, visit chronicleforums.com and look for the related threads to read some heated but intelligent discussion from both sides.

Someone described (was it post 52?) witnessing a fairly "humane" sounding process? Were that the case everywhere, every time. Yes, by law, you can't sell or auction a horse that is blind, unable to stand and move, walk on his own, yes there are vets on hand at sales and feedlots but in many, many cases it's to ensure a minimal level of care. The process from owner to meat man to feed lot to kill floor is hardly a pleasant one. I've known meat men, I've seen the auctions... not nice, not nice at all.

One of the biggest problems is that during the slaughter process, too many are not knocked out by the bolt and are conscious while being bled out. It is terrifying; it is highly stressful. I'd also agree with the posters expressing concern for chemicals. Almost all products and medications used on horses come with warnings not to use on animals intended for consumption --actually all I've ever seen or used.

Only recently has our state, PA, enacted laws prohibiting transport of slaughter horses on trucks designed for sheep, cattle, hogs... horses crammed in too-low, too-tight quarters for long periods, unable to stand with their heads in a natural position, falling down, legs slipping on and through the flooring of double-decker trucks. But it still goes on elsewhere and, because they're headed for the SH there is really little incentive to provide any care or humane treatment beyond what will keep them on their feet and moving.

Personally, I would like to see factory farms cracked down on. I would like to ensure all animals, no matter their "end use" treated humanely and with respect and compassion right up until the end (I try to shop and eat accordingly). More responsible breeding (just like with the dogs -- the designer dog phenomena has me worried) would go a long way toward curbing and perhaps ultimately ending horse slaughter. As would supporting the rescues and the groups involved in retiring and/or adopting out ex-racehorses, etc. I think euthanasia should be affordable and accessible. And hell, a well-aimed bullet at home is faster, more humane and less stressful than the bolt. If it comes right down to it, I would rather see a horse euthanized by shot or shot than make that trip. It's not free range feeding before being calmly escorted down the chute by a caring attendant. It's a chaotic, crazy mess and the workers have cattle prods to ensure their balking, distressed, eye-rolling, sometimes falling down charges keep moving.

To the pragmatists, I say yes, tragically right now, slaughter is meeting a (small) demand in Europe and has arisen from a need here at home: too many horses, not enough happy sunny pastures for life at "the nice farm down the road."

But horse slaughter is worth ending, or in the interim, the process worth re-designing to be made more humane and stricter controls enacted... because of our relationship with these animals. Again, while all animals deserve good care I've still noticed that we've created distinctions between them. We don't raise horses, in this country, specifically for meat. Few of us form bonds with individual cattle or hogs (well I do know some farmers and the 4H and FFA kids who are exceptions). We treat horses as companions and partners in sport and recreation. They trust us, have close relationships with us. Most spend their lives cared for as four-legged children.

To suddenly throw them into the slaughter system is to drop them down a nasty rabbit hole indeed.

(one more edit with feeling :) )

[Debau2005]

70. Well said...nt

[CottonBear]

87. Thank you for you thoughtful and informed post tll.

Welcome to DU. :hi: And welcome to another DU horse person! There a quite a few of us here.

[tll]

90. I haven't met too many horse people with the 'wrong' politics!

:D

[Greylyn58]

109. Very well stated!

Just because man can eat all the creature we do, doesn't mean we should.

[november3rd]

69. Any limits on slaughter are welcome

Get in touch with the Humane Society and work on stiffening the ban with the wider legislation. https://community.hsus.org/campaign/FED_2006_horse_slaughter?qp_source=gac4lr

[tll]

76. and because I can't keep my trap shut

It's not just the backyard pets, it's also the ones who've brought their owners purses and prestige... such as Exceller (the only horse to beat two Triple Crown winners) and Kentucky Derby winner Ferdinand.


http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=17051

http://www.excellerfund.org

[Odin2005]

88. I would have no problem with eating horsemeat...

...as long as it comes from animals raised for food, not retired thouroghbreds (for the reasons stated by other posters).

I love meat, but I am sickened by how the animals are treated in the big factory-like operations. The animals should also be slaughters more humanely, and not just for ethical reasons, meat from animals that were highly stressed doesn't taste as good as meat from animals who weren't as stressed (It's one of the reasons like like venison over beef).

[BlackHeart]

92. Do they kill the wild horses

that are destroying the west?

[Igel]

107. The used to, and probably still do in some cases.

But, you see, not only are they cute, but they're the descendants of livestock that served us so loyally. And you know that the distant descendants of those that helped mankind are so worthy of not having any function beyond decoration, and have every right to be invasive and hurt the environment. Unless they're people, mais ca va sans dire, n'est pas?

They're also free-spirits of importance to indigenous tribes. And some legends seem give them importance and status far longer than their actual presence in the Americas, so we know they once had wings--perhaps they're angels? :sarcasm:

[BlackHeart]

112. Becuase their ancestors did good deeds

they are off the hook for eternity, is that how it works?
In the opposite sense it reminds me of how Hitler blamed Jewish desendants for having killed Jesus.

[entanglement]

93. There is certainly a spectrum of views concerning the consumption of meat

As a vegetarian, I feel the same amount of distress thinking about the consumption of ANY animal as horse-lovers do for horses. Of course, I realize that meat consumption is going to continue, like it or not, and about the the best that can be done at present is to ensure that animals don't suffer. But I find it hard to understand people who get agitated by the thought of dogs being eaten in Korea or whales in Japan or horses in Europe and then blissfully turning a blind eye to the suffering of other, 'lesser' animals. I mean, I never understood why some animals are more equal than others :)

[HuffleClaw]

94. so????

what a joke. its ok for cats and dogs but not for people? moralistic bigotry in action.

[mmonk]

98. They shouldn't be killed for food

unless they are raised for food and under the same regulatory conditions other animals raised for food are.

[Igel]

108. What about free-range horses? n/t

[CottonBear]

114. Wild horses belong to the American public and live on public land.

The herds are managed to control the size as related to available grazing land and water supply.

Beef cattle cause much, much more harm to public land due to their vast numbers.

Previously, when wild horses were rounded up and culled for purposes of adoption (to maintain proper herd size), the adoptive owner had to sign a legal form which prevented them from transferring or selling the horse to any one else for at least one year. Unadopted horses were returned to the herds or transferred to private wild horse sanctuaries. These are wild animals living in intact family units, unlike beef cattle or other domestic livestock.

Well, the Repubs changed that rule. So immediately what happened was that "horse killers" would adopt the horses and then ship them off to slaughter. :(

I know two people in my area who own adopted Mustangs. They are wonderful animals and they are a part of American history which dates back to the Spanish explorers. Their gene pool is ancient. They are descended from the Spanish horse.

[dbackjon]

104. And in India, Cows are sacred.......

Just because we don't eat much horse here in the US, doesn't mean that others can't.

[CottonBear]

113. Well then, let them eat their own horses and not ours. n/t

[DrGonzoLives]

106. If they are going to be eaten

then they need to be raised as such. That's the problem here, besides the cultural barriers to eating them in the U.S.

Horses used for racing, show or beasts of burden are fed different things because we don't worry about toxic substances building up in fat and muscle tissue.

[AngryAmish]

110. Why should we push our taboos on other cultures?

Aren't we screwed up enough?