Barbecue meats linked with prostate cancer

[onehandle]

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A compound formed when meat is charred at high temperatures -- as in barbecue -- encourages the growth of prostate cancer in rats, researchers reported on Sunday.

Their study, presented at a meeting of the American Association for Cancer Research, may help explain the link between eating meat and a higher risk of prostate cancer.

It also fits in with other studies suggesting that cooking meat until it chars might cause cancer.

The compound, called PhIP, is formed when meat is cooked at very high temperatures, Dr. Angelo De Marzo and colleagues at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore reported.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060403/hl_nm/cancer_bbq_dc

[BlueEyedSon]

1. A sad day to be man!

[okieinpain]

19. no shit.

[Atman]

80. A sadder day to be a rat!

But really, they have such a hard time flipping a t-bone with those tiny hands, it's probably a good thing.

[timtom]

85. Oh Gawd!

One of my very few LOL moments here.

Thanx. That was hilarious.

[evlbstrd]

2. I live in one of the BBQ capitols of the country.

True BBQ is made with low heat, not high. Perhaps they should more accurately call it "grilling meats."

[BlueEyedSon]

22. You are correct, sir!

[Blue_Tires]

30. exactly

and i guess i can't worry about this too much--i've eaten WAY too much in my lifetime already...even if i were to never take another bite, i'm probably already doomed, lol

[evlbstrd]

47. There are worse ways to go.

Life without barbecue ain't worth livin'!

[AngryAmish]

40. Thank you!

However a little smokey crust on the outside is nice. Plus, KC burnt ends are great.

[evlbstrd]

46. You've got that right.

You can quit smoking and eat right, but you won't live forever. It will just seem like it.

[xmas74]

66. You are correct.

Sounds like some of these researchers need to go to Arthur Bryants to find out what true bbq is!

[evlbstrd]

74. That's a great idea.

My yard would work, too.

[xmas74]

107. As would most of the backyards in MO

in the summertime.

I think we must be one of the top states in ownership of smokers.

[BOSSHOG]

3. Fuck!

I love my barbeque grill (both of them, one propane, one charcoal.) I'm the bbq kind of my neighborhood. Just yesterday I cooked to perfection two hunks of beef. What doesn't cause cancer?

[AndyTiedye]

4. You're Not Supposed to BURN the Meat!

[mdmc]

5. another cancer causer

...

[Patsy Stone]

6. BBQ can KILL you!

Look, let's face it: we're all gonna die. I'm gonna do it eating BBQ. :)

[babylonsister]

7. This will be debunked as soon as the meat industry hears

about it.:eyes:

[KurtNYC]

28. This is really old news except maybe the specific link to

prostate cancer. I remember a link like this established in the mid 1980s.

But you are right about the meat industry shooting back I think. One of the reasons you see so little advice about what foods to AVOID is because of the blow back from whatever lobby you are up against. Oprah was hauled into court by the cattle industry. Far easier for entities like the USDA to tell you to eat MORE food eg. ~"leafy greens protect against cancer."

[BiggJawn]

72. You're right. That reminds me, is Coffee good or bad this week?

Everytime they come out with these "new findings" the first thought in my head is:
"I wonder which trade group bought which Congress-critter with oversight over the FDA *THIS* time?"

Next week they'll say eating burnt Bar-B-Q is GOOD for your prostate!

[MercutioATC]

8. I'm going to have to stop feeding my rat steaks...

...damn! He loves them so...

[truthisfreedom]

9. but didn't they also tell us furious masturbation keeps our prostates

healthy?

[babylonsister]

13. So perhaps masturbation will reverse the effects of the bbq?

:shrug: :spray:

[sellitman]

16. A perfect night...

A BBQ with Rose Palm and her five hairy sisters.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Nickster]

18. OMG! *Snort* n/t

[Chrisduhfur]

103. BBQ sauce personal lube?

[okieinpain]

20. a great day to be man.

[OnyxCollie]

21. It's worth a try.

I've been conducting a study for about 25 years now, and other than a little soreness, everything's OK.:thumbsup:

[KansDem]

24. Just be careful you don't get mixed up with where to put the sauce...

Paricularly if it's "extra hot."



Ouch!!

[xmas74]

67. Now I need a tissue to wipe the slobber off of my mouth!

Gates sounds so good right now!

[mark11727]

43. Jeez, if that's the case, I'm two sides o' beef behind schedule.

:evilgrin::evilgrin::evilgrin::evilgrin::evilgrin::evilgrin:

[BlueEyedSon]

44. Beef "Jerky"?

[babylonsister]

50. Ba Dum Bum!

:silly:

[BlueEyedSon]

51. Love ya too, Babs!

:)

[Jim Sagle]

59. What good will that do Bob Dole?

:shrug:

[Bonhomme Richard]

10. I wish they would cut this crap out.

I'm going to let them in on a little secret.................
SHhhhhhhhhhhh.......Nobody lives forever.

[Lindacooks]

11. Yep - polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons.

The key here is to not burn the meat, and avoid fat dripping onto the coals and burning, then drifting back up to the meat. The problem is, that's what makes the barbecue flavor.

Actually, ANY burned food will have PAHs. Even a burned marshmallow.

[C_U_L8R]

12. One less reason to live

how tragic

[JackintheGreen]

14. Let the punishment fit the crime.

If meat causes cancer, it SHOULD be burned at the steak!


Sorry about that. When I first read the title I interpreted barbeque as a verb. Teehee

[HughBeaumont]

15. Tough shite. I'm still BBQ'ing ribs this spring and summer.

BBQ'ing ribs never killed anyone.

Let me ask something: is it ONLY news if it's BAD? Why do you never hear "French Fries Increase Sexual Stamina", "(insert American corporation here) hires 5,000 workers in (insert American city here)", "Savannah Freed by Captors" or something like that? Ever notice that there hasn't been ANY good news in a long freaking while?

[cliss]

17. OK: barbecuers, here's what you do.

Turn on the grill. Take a piece of aluminum foil. Fold the corners up so it's like a pan. Put your steak on the foil. Broil away.

The thing that's harmful is the meat juices dripping onto the coals, and then it splatters back up onto the steak. It's carcinogenic. If you can avoid that, you'll be fine.

Actually, your meat will turn out heavenly because it will simmer in its own juice. Pour a little soy sauce, or barbecue sauce in the "pan" and it will get even better.

You CAN have your steak & eat it too!

[Kali]

83. that's not bbq, might as well use a frying pan in the house

besides if its too hot you still have the same problem.

[David Zephyr]

23. Snap out of the delusion: It's not the barbecue, it's the meat that kills.

"Barbecued meats kill". It's the noun in that statement that killed, not the adjective.

Quit eating meat and and you'll live longer. Keep eating meat, barbecued or not, and you'll die sooner.

[Taverner]

26. But some of us like food that tastes good

Not just rabbit food ya know...

[The Stranger]

98. Then you will have to accept a shorter life. And dying sooner.

Right?

[KurtNYC]

32. Protein intake can affect absorption of calcium

and by extension, skeletal health. A recent study found that Seventh Day Adventists experience higher than average rates of prostate cancer and hip fractures. Many vegetarians are deficient in B12, Iron, calcium, Vit D, riboflavin and protein. And many college-aged vegetarians have a saturated fat intake which is no lower than meat eaters (because they eat salad dressing, cheese pizza, etc.)

Meat is not the devil and broadly-defined vegetarianism is no cure-all.

[darkism]

37. Amen!

Meat is most certainly NOT the devil and, the last I checked, vegetarianism is no pre-requisite for liberalism.

Now excuse me while I go have some chicken! I really don't give half of a damn if it causes cancer or if I catch bird flu. :D

And, like somebody said up-thread, everybody dies eventually. Might as well live it up while you're young and able enough to enjoy it.

[flvegan]

55. That "recent study" was in relation to milk consumption

I believe. The Phillips study, yes? It was a 15 or 20 year study on Seventh Day Adventists that had them drinking 2 or 3 glasses per day. Yes, prostate cancer rates were higher. Wonder why...

[BlueEyedSon]

54. Grilled meat kills more.

Probably grilled, charred veggies kill more too....

[Lindacooks]

71. Exactly! ANYTHING that's burned has carcinogens.

As I said before, a burned marshmallow contains carcinogens.

[BlueEyedSon]

73. Oh noooooooooooooooooooo

[Lindacooks]

95. Yep, sorry.

But then, life causes death, so you've got to pick your battles, I guess.

[greekspeak]

87. Here is an observation about people who do not eat meat

Personally, I do not try to foist meat products on people. If you don't want to eat it, fine. Don't eat it. There are a wide range of dishes available for those who do not want to partake. However, I have a large number of vegitarian friends who seem to be sick all the time. I just went on a trip with three of them. From low blood sugar issues to constipation the three of them whined and complained the whole time about how sick they felt. I felt great the whole time. If that is the way abstaining from meat makes one feel, I will take my steak and die of cancer someday.

[RebelOne]

90. You are just unfortunate enough to have sick friends.

I am a vegetarian. No low blood sugar or constipation issues. And I always feel well. My sister, a meat eater, died of cancer at the age of 54. A friend of mine, a meat eater, also died at the age of 54 just last week. I'm 67 and still ticking.

[greekspeak]

110. And two of my grandparents lived to be just shy of 90 and ate meat daily

My other grandmother ate more of the so called "healthy" diet. Only made it to 76. Still ate meat though. Hmmm...

[The Stranger]

99. Then fine, die of cancer, if that's what you wish.

But having constipation as a vegetarian? WTF?

[greekspeak]

109. You will have to ask him about that. I personally do not get constipated

He is constipated all the time. His partner makes him big old bran muffins to make him go. I had one and I REALLY went. Like I say, whatever works for you.

[RagingInMiami]

116. You know what pisses me off about some vegetarians and vegans

Is that they become like religious fanatics in trying to convince everybody to live like them, to see the world like they do. That they try to convince the world that everybody is going to hell unless they suddenly convert or change their lifestyle is accordance to the way they are living.

That just gripes my fucking ass.

[Demeter]

25. Since My Grandfather Never Ate Barbecue, I Have A Hard Time Swallowing

this statistic. Grandpa ate the basic Polish-American diet, and lots of homemade orange juice.

[shanti]

76. well...

it doesn't mean that OTHER things don't cause it too. what does it cause in women?

[shanti]

77. moved

*moving this*

[Taverner]

27. Fuckity Fuck

Oh well, I'm still having my BBQ dammit

[sendero]

29. Your genetics cause cancer...

.. and your lifestyle and diet have a small effect on that.

[KurtNYC]

34. Well, my friend lived near 3-mile island and died of cancer at 23

I don't think genetics played much of a role there. Likewise I doubt that the rats in the expirimental group had genes any different from those in the control group.

The incidence of cancer in the US is now in decline. It is likely that a decrease in the consumption of hard alcohol, beer, and red meat is responsible.

[sendero]

36. Yeah...

.. and Dana Reeves never smoked a cigarette and she died of lung cancer.

Sure, things like large amounts of radiation, some chemicals, etc can cause cancer. But most cancer is in your genetics, you are either predisposed to get it or you are not.

I've seen too many health food nuts die young and too many smoking boozing men still tooling along in good health in ther 80s to worry about the few percent of influence I can have by dropping the latest (and often later debunked) bad-food-of-the-year.

[BlueEyedSon]

52. LOL, I bet 100lbs of those "vegetables" are French Fries!

[politicat]

57. And one of my cousins lived on an organic farm in rural Indiana

and died of cancer at 24. There is pretty much no other cancer in the family in people under the age of 70. Most of the rest of the family made it at least to 85, and about 50% of those born since 1849 reached 100, and pork, beef, eggs, beer, potatoes, wheat, cheese and butter figure prominently in the family heritage.

Genes are funny things.

Beer contains B12, and in moderation, is one of three sources of B12 (the others being fermented soy foods and meat, but it's much easier to drink enough beer than enough shoyu). Iron absorption and complete protein absorption are somewhat more available for about 60% of the population when consuming meat than when consuming vegetable proteins. Some of us lack the enzymes to effectively digest wheat and corn products (though I'm lucky enough to have both). As for hard alcohol... there are a lot of evidence on both sides.

One thing's true, though... The mortality rate is 100%, always has been.

[Demeter]

94. Or Maybe the End of Atomic Bomb Testing!

Anyone around in the 50's was irradiated wtih Strontium 90 among other fission byproducts. The Test Ban came too late for many, and the pollution is widespread and difficult to clean up.

[xchrom]

31. they've tried linking grilling and cancer before

was very iffy the first time around.

so i wonder what will happen this time.

[Bake]

33. This makes me so sad that I need a cigarette to calm down!

Screw it, I'm grillin'!!!

Bake

[dave29]

35. Breaking: Living Causes Dying... Film at 11:00

I'm series

[Gman]

38. Bullshit!

A good brisket is cooked at no more than 250 degrees for as long as it takes it to get done. Nice and slow. You want tough meat? Cook it at a "high temperature".

I'll be smokin' a 15 lb or so brisket with live oak for a party this weekend. I'll start it Friday night maybe around 7 or so. Maybe it'll be done by noon Saturday. If I do it right, it'll fall apart with no charring!

[AngryAmish]

41. What is live oak?

Is it freshly cut oak that is not dried out and thus more smokey?

[Gman]

42. An oak tree that (as far as I know) is native to Texas

Here's a pic of the biggest one in Texas:



http://www.rockport-fulton.org/frames/tree.htm

But I buy cut and dried oak (and mesquite) from a little place just northwest of San Antonio in the Hill Country.

You use oak for beef and mesquite for chicken, and sometimes fajitas.

[BlueEyedSon]

53. Damn you Gman, now I'm HUNGRY!!!!!

[Ilsa]

56. I remember visiting that tree. The mosquitoes took about a pint of

blood while I was checking it out. It really is an awesome tree. And the younger ones around it are bent over in the direction the prevailing wind blows. That tree was probably a sapling before the First Crusade.

[Gman]

62. Ok... I've got to tell a story too

My parents used to take us when we were little to a place on San Antonio Bay where we'd stay and fish with some friends of my parents. That place is right at the Aransas Wildlife Refuge entrance and we were maybe 9 or 10 years old. Probably the last time we were there was about 11 and 12. During one of these trips they took us over to go see that tree. I'd often wondered more about that tree and said if I ever had a chance I'd go back there. I tried many times (without asking anyone where it was) to find it. (Asking directions is a sign of weakness!) Fast forward to last year. I had a client that lived back about a half mile from the tree on Goose Island. So I followed the signs and lo and behold there it was. I took this picture of it:



This whole area is, by far, one of the most beautiful places in Texas. All the oak trees in and around this area all swoop to the northwest because of the prevailing southeast wind. They look beautifully sculpted. Truly a uniquely beautiful area.

[Kailassa]

88. Your oak is my new background.

I'm an Aussie, and I love the various eucalypts I grew up with, but there is something really magic about an ancient oak. Just standing beneath one can make you feel you have travelled back in time and morphed into a druid.

Here's another mind-blowing one.



Angel Oak, Johns Island, South Carolina
Height: 65 Feet
Circumference: 25.5 Feet
Area of shade: 17,000 sq. feet
Largest Limb: Circumference 11.25 feet / Length 89 feet

The Angel Oak is a live oak (Quercus virginiana), a native tree species found throughout the low-country. Believed to be in excess of 1400 years old, its massive, draping limbs and wide spreading canopy present the aura of an angel but the naming of this tree was acquired from the tree's previous owners, Martha & Justis Angel.

[Gman]

97. That's just as beautiful. Oaks have also seen and heard history

It's said that this one at Pecan Valley Golf Course in San Antonio likely heard the wagons and horses of Santa Ana after he left the Alamo headed for San Jacinto.



Here's the sign next to the tree describing the history of this area:



Fortunately the tree doesn't come into play on this course! And the tree trunk without a crown in the background to the left of the big tree was hit by lightening several years ago. That was a good thing on that hole!

[Kailassa]

118. Old and scarred, but wise and still giving shelter.

Oaks are the ancient wise women of the forest.

[xmas74]

68. Where do you live?

You might have an uninvited guest or two.

I love brisket!

[Gman]

70. I'm in San Antonio

the party is for a good friend's 55th BD south of town. They like the way I smoke a brisket. Actually, I don't do anything, the smoke does. I just make sure the fire is still going and not real hot.

[xmas74]

108. Which is the way brisket is supposed to be smoked.

I live around the KC area. I know how brisket should be done.

No way I'd eat the researchers brisket if they are using high heat. The meat would be ruined!

[TX-RAT]

39. Does this mean we can have our steak, and beat it too?

[Pavulon]

45. I'm screwed (nt)

[NashVegas]

48. Char - Carbon - Carcinogen All Have the Same Root Word

And you know what? I don't care anymore. Not when there's this.

[matcom]

49. oh bullshit

you do NOT cook BBQ at HIGH heat! :eyes:

fucking idiots. i don't trust ANYONE anymore.

this is total bullshit

[Sapere aude]

58. Stop eating meat. I did that about 15 years ago and feel great at 60.

I had a feeling that eating meat wasn't healthy and didn't want to deal with the consequences. To me it is like people who smoke and deny there is a cancer risk.

Some disease is not inevitable. You have to have a cause which I think is a lifestyle tendency like eating barbecued meat and consuming mass quantities of beer while you sit idly for hours watching some sport event on TV and getting upset because you team is losing.

[Debau2005]

60. I have not had a migraine

since I became a vegan almost a year ago. And my cholestrol has dropped considerably.

[Ignis]

79. Congrats on going vegan!

I've been vegan for over a decade, and I'm loving it. :)

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

65. that is a great way to put it--many people could benefit-

from a simple lifestyle/ "habit" change.

[karlrschneider]

61. I'll be sure not to feed my rats any barbecue!

Reminds me of the old joke: The fundy preacher was lecturing on temperance. He poured a shot of whisky and dropped a worm into the glass...it immediately curled up and died. "WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU?" he bellowed.


A guy in the back stood up and said "If you drink enough, you won't have worms."

[mac56]

63. You CAN live to be one hundred!

You just have to give up everything that would make you WANT to live to be one hundred.

Cross reference to: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x4979500

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

64. -it's the Meat--added with the hormones--added with the carbon-added to

whatever other chemicals they discover--

Going Vegan is not really too bad when you think about
all the money you might save on medical bills later in life!

I know--
Foresaking all that eating pleasure will make
life dull and not worth living anyway right?
And we won't get enough vitamins and protein-

All myths-
Vegan and rawfood restaurants are springing up all over L.A./S.F-
and N.Y.-
These days you can get ALL the flavor and all the vitamis/protein
without contributing to harming animals.
It may seem to be a high end gourmet type thing right now
but eventualy will be common for everyone--especial with mad cow and bird flu
right around the corner.

[minkyboodle]

69. someday...

and somehow us BB nuts will get people to stop
thinking that BBQ = grilling and grilling = BBQ

[Kali]

104. Too true. I plead guilty as well.

[ncteechur]

75. Running in front of a speeding bus linked to getting run over.

[Schema Thing]

78. you're s'posed to EAT the damn meat

tailgating indeed. :evilgrin:

[DemoTex]

81. Grilling (T> 350 F) bad!

BBQ off direct heat @ 250-350 F not so bad. True BBQ does not "char" meat. Grilling over charcoal does. Eh?


Pit-master Mac

[Odin2005]

82. BREAKING NEWS: Living causes Cancer.

You can take away my BBQed ribs from my cold, dead hands.

Genetics have a much larger influence on things like cancer and high blood pressure, high cholesterol, and heart disease then the dieting industry wants you to know. For example, people from cultures whose ancestors had significant amounts of meat in thier diets are more resistant to the bad effects of saturated fat and cholesterol then people from cultures whose ancestors were mostly vegetarian, which is why people of African ancestry are at higher risk of heart disease than those of European ancestry.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

84. UPDATE:Indulgent Lifestyles may cause disease & SUFFERING hurts like hell

BREAKING NEWS:
warning:
Using judgment increases odds of comfortable survival-
-sometimes a payoff is worth a risk-
-sometimes it's not-

How's yer Luck?

losing's a real bitch-
-certain diseases can hurt like hell for a long long time before you die--
I've witnessed it firsthand and it's nothing to laugh about.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

89. Disease isn't only caused by indulgent lifestyles.

Hell, Bruce Lee, in amazing physical shape, died at 27 of natural causes. George Burns smoked cigars all the time and lived to 100.

[Kailassa]

92. Health is a matter of chance, but you are loading the dice you throw.

It's a question of assessing priorities.

There is no harm in stopping to work out which risks you feel are worth running, and which you can lower without adversely affecting your quality of life.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

93. Fair enough.

But genetics and random luck/bad luck play a large part as well.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

102. no shit? for real?--I guess I learn something new every day!

thanks!

[jeffrey_X]

105. Link?

"Genetics have a much larger influence on things like cancer and high blood pressure, high cholesterol, and heart disease then the dieting industry wants you to know"

Sorry this is bullshit. Got a link to back it up?

[symbolman]

86. My advice is

don't stand so damn NEAR to the grill :)

One MORE thing that a make a MAN a MAN that we must give up.. I actually made a guy laugh in the store the other day while on the cell phone with my wife, telling her as we consulted on what I should or should not eat, "yeah, I sure as hell have to make sure that I take away everything in life that gives me pleasure so that I can live that extra 20 years.."

The guy cracked up and waved at me over his shoulder :)

[Kailassa]

91. Just changing the meat/vegetable ratio in your diet

does a lot more good than all-or-nothing advocates seem to realize.

Enjoy you meat, but wrap some extra lettuce around it and work out an occasional vegetarian meal that you enjoy.

We go vegetarian for christmas because we once had a vegetarian christmas and everyone loved the dishes we prepared so much we had to make them every year. Especially the cashew curry, that with freshly made puffy bread and vege puffs, saffron rice, indian dips and lassi ... yummm.

For regular eating, to be healthy on a completely vegetarian diet takes a bit of thought and effort, and people who are not going to put some care on it should keep eating animal protein and only make changes gradually as they learn about making the most of vegetable proteins.

[Bridget Burke]

96. I'll add to the chorus: Real Barbecue is not charred!

Moderation in all things. I don't eat barbecue every day; I even like tofu! (Anyway, I'm not worrried about prostate cancer.)


From Coopers BBQ in Llano, TX: www.coopersbbq.com/tour.asp


A pulled pork sandwich--veggies included...
From Stickey's of New Jersey(!): http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=39247

Dinner at Goode Company? Although Jim Goode also has seafood places & a taqueria (with killer weekend breakfasts). Texas does have its Goode points. http://www.goodecompany.com/goodeRestaurant.aspx

[Igel]

100. Yikes. I'm cross-cultural.

Both my aunts had the early stages of colon cancer: also implicated in high-temp grilling. I grew up in a sort of barbecue culture in Maryland: every summer, cook-outs.

Now I live in Texas: Texas BBQ is such a completely kind of thing there's no comparison. I can't even bring myself to use the same orthography for them.

As an aside: I like Texas BBQ much better than the charred beef my parents so like.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

101. Thats why I barbecue low and slow baby!

[benburch]

106. I'm doomed! nt

[leftofthedial]

111. that's grilling

barbequeing generally is slow cooking with relatively low heat

[MaraJade]

113. But

Proper grilling doesn't "char" or burn food either.

Charring = not cooking properly.

[MaraJade]

112. Charring meat means burning meat--

Smoking food or barbequing by means of low or offset heating (roasting) shouldn't be a problem.

If one sears meats over a blazing fire to the extent that a black char forms, this really isn't
proper barbequing in the first place.

[cartach]

114. Barbecue meats/prostate cancer

Not to worry.Another study down the road will be completed and it will refute this one.And we can all breath a sigh of relief as we have done so many times in the past.

[RagingInMiami]

115. An earlier study said hot chili peppers help fight prostate cancer

So keep the grill burning cause I'm adding some hot sauce to my meat.

http://www.physorg.com/news11912.html

[Kailassa]

117. That's what I like,

listen to the info, then find ways to take reasonable care of your health and still enjoy life.

And don't forget your beer or wine, they help too ;-)

[RagingInMiami]

119. Well beer is worse for the prostate than wine

According to studies. Wine, in moderate amounts, is even good for the prostate.