Salon: Ireland to Legalize Gay Partnerships

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

http://salon.com/wire/ap/archive.html?wire=D8GONF0G0.html">April 03,2006| DUBLIN, Ireland --
Ireland will legalize civil partnerships for gay couples, Prime Minister Bertie Ahern pledged Monday as he opened new offices for the country's main homosexual rights pressure group.

Civil partnerships allow gay couples the same rights to inheritance, state benefits and other financial rights as held by married heterosexual couples.

"Sexual orientation cannot, and must not, be the basis of a second-class citizenship. Our laws have changed, and will continue to change, to reflect this principle," Ahern told an audience at Ireland's Gay and Lesbian Equality Network.

Ahern said it would be more difficult to legalize gay marriage in Ireland than it was in the United Kingdom, which approved the civil unions in December. Ireland's constitution has a clause requiring the predominantly Roman Catholic state to protect the institution of marriage, whereas the UK, which includes neighboring Northern Ireland, has no written constitution...

When I was in Ireland a few years ago, I found it to be more homophobic than the US (I do live in the oddly liberal, yet Republican Morris Co, NJ though). While I am happy that they are legalizing gay partnerships, I find it sad that here they are trying to take away gay rights.

[autorank]

1. I love Ireland...what a transformation. The best damn country in Europe!!

A nation of the ages...


Suffered under British rule...


Robert Emmet & Michael Collins
Liberated by heroes...

"In recent decades the Irish economy has been transformed from being agrarian and traditional manufacturing based to one increasingly based on the hi-tech and internationally traded services sectors. In 2004, the services sector accounted for 66% of employment, industry for 28% and agriculture for 6%."

Prevailed and is now superior to Great Britain in all the ways that count -- progressive government, international civility, income, education, etc.


ERIN GO BRAGH

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

2. Yeah, it was my favorite European country too.

In the rural areas, it got a little bit weird being a young girl backpacking solo though. In cities, it didn't raise an eyebrow.

[The Backlash Cometh]

8. Ireland? but what is their position on abortion?

[Stockholm]

9. In practice illegal so they go to England

n/t

[Bridget Burke]

17. Abortion is also mostly illegal in Northern Ireland....

The Catholic Church is influential although Catholics are a (large) minority. Do you think the Protestant worthies want the margin to grow even narrower?

Groups are fighting for Choice. For now, ladies from both sides of The Border have to get on the Ferry.

[autorank]

19. Religion in Modern Ireland

http://go.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=1153544§ion=news&src=rss/uk/topNews

Catholicism is both the backdrop to daily life -- national radio pauses twice a day to play the Angelus bell, a traditional call to prayer -- and the backbone, with pivotal roles in fields such as health and education. It owns most primary schools.

What has changed, however, is a willingness to challenge openly the Church's influence and abuses.

The decision by a Dublin hospital last year -- later reversed -- not to trial a cancer drug because of the Catholic board's opposition to birth control provoked a public outcry.

Revelations in the 1990s of systematic sexual abuse of young parishioners by priests over decades shattered the silent reverence most Irish held for the Church and its clergy. "There is no deference to the priest or the bishop in the same way there was," said Tom Inglis, professor of sociology at University College Dublin (UCD).

"There has been a decline of the orthodox Catholic who accepted Church teaching without question," he said. Many had become "cultural Catholics" who no longer saw the Church as a moral guide but valued their religious heritage.

[Vidar]

27. Good article. Thanks for posting.

[autorank]

20. Abortion....they're working on it. Odd situation now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Ireland

It should be noted that, in theory, abortion is legal in Ireland if there is a risk to the life of the woman. A provision exists in the Irish constitution to allow Dail Eireann to legislate on this, however no political party has risked it, and in the meantime, while it is legal in theory, the body that holds medical licences in Ireland considers it malpractice for any doctor to perform an abortion. Estimates to the number of Irish women seeking abortions in Britain vary, in the 1990s it is alleged that between 1,500 and 10,000 women who stated in hospital records that they were 'Irish' travel annually. The official figure is 45,000 since 1967.

[saltpoint]

3. I had a tremendous instructor -- Peter Goodrich -- who taught an Irish

history and literature course.

It was one of the richest experiences of my life, and it awakened me to Ireland. Just a very powerful and inspirational tour in literature of what strikes me as a wondrous land and people.

I'm yet to visit but want to badly.

If anyone wants to tackle a good read on Ireland, try AT SWIM, TWO BOYS, by Jamie O'Neill. It's about many things, but it occurs up to and during the Easter Rising. A powerful novel of modern Ireland, and one that will set the table for Ahern's announcement in haruka3's post tonight.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

7. Another good book on Ireland...

"Whoredom in Kimmage" by Rosemary Mahoney. It was written about 10-15 years ago, but it covers one woman's journey traveling solo through all sorts of Irish culture, from rural woman to the lesbian bar scene of Dublin. It's very interesting. I read it first in HS, at my teacher's suggestion, then again on the plane heading to Ireland.

I'll check out the book you recommended too. I also took a good Irish history course under Jim Patterson at Centenary. The only problem was he was extremely right-wing in American politics. It was uncomfortable for the other liberal & I, but he was awesome on Irish history and really funny. He left us joke around with stuff too. Once we hung up a "Sniper Warning Sign" and a student snuck in on him with a crossbow (no arrows though) or the time we conducted class in an Irish pub.

Also, if you do make it to Ireland, I highly recommend the Literary Pub Crawl in Dublin. It is hilarious, informative, and filled with alcohol.

[saltpoint]

21. haruka, I am THERE. I will try to hunt down the book by Rosemary

Mahoney. It sounds like a great read. And even a reader can vicariously enjoy a sojourn in Ireland.

I love your high school teacher for recommending a book like that to a capable student. Throughout the U.S., that sort of teaching is suspect, unfortunately. I think too many of the early pilgrims to the Colonies here were humorless prudes.

Very fine post, and much appreciated.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

25. Yeah, she really helped me get through HS.

I had her for a Humanities class (junior) and then she was my mentor in my writing independent study senior year. She's a young teacher, so we ended up being friends after I graduated. We still hang out pretty regularly. A couple years ago I even took her to get her 1st tattoo.

She definitely took a lot of risks teaching, got reigned in a few times, but also ended up teacher of the year (faculty & student nominated) a few times. I honestly think I owe her my life.

[HEyHEY]

4. Faith and begorrah!

[Lexingtonian]

5. wow.

Ireland legalized divorce just a few years ago- 1996 or 1998, iirc. I may be wrong, but abortion is still illegal there too.

But they're going to legalize gay civil unions, or at least try, in the near future. Color me surprised.

[TaleWgnDg]

6. Merely bc Prime Minister Bertie Ahern says something

.

Merely bc Irish Prime Minister Bertie Ahern says something does not, then, make it law in Ireland. And, note the AP article says that Ireland has a written constitution that indicates:

"Ireland's (written) constitution has a clause requiring the predominantly Roman Catholic state to protect the institution of marriage. . . . Ahern said it would be more difficult to legalize gay marriage in Ireland than it was in the United Kingdom, which approved the civil unions in December."
http://apnews.myway.com//article/20060403/D8GOOER05.html

Celebrate if and when it happens not merely bc some pol releases a damn press release mouthing off trying to garner some votes!

[rodeodance]

10. Go Ireland Go. Good for you.

[regnaD kciN]

11. Hell freezes over!!!

BTW, maybe someone who from Ireland could enlighten me on this:

Some time ago, the rule was that any couple where one or both partners used to be Roman Catholic, even if they had left the church or changed denominations, was still required by law to raise their children as Roman Catholics. Is that law still in effect?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

13. Not sure on the law, but here's my take on it...

Due to the political struggles between the Irish Catholics and the British Protestants, it makes sense to require that any child with a Roman Catholic parent be raised Roman Catholic. It's simply a matter of taking another step to ensure a Catholic majority. A lot of the Catholic/Protestant stuff in Ireland is more Irish/British than anything.

[regnaD kciN]

14. It makes no more "sense" than any other form of discrimination...

My wife and I were once both Roman Catholic. Now, we're Anglicans. Why should the law dictate that our daughter have to attend a church different from ours, and receive an religious education telling her that her mother and I are not really married, merely "living in sin," since I was married once before?

:grr:

There's a lot I like about Ireland, and it would seem a good place to take refuge if matters here get much worse, but that's an absolute obstacle. And it would strike me as deeply ironic if they were to decide that same-sex civil unions were fine, while still forcing ex-Roman Catholics to give their children an education that tells them we're bound for Hell. :eyes:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

15. It's done for more of a political than a religious reason.

Honestly, in their situation, I'm fine with it, but I'm kind of a radical when it comes to Irish politics. I was raised Catholic, but I stopped following it when I was confirmed.

[muriel_volestrangler]

16. There's no mention of anything like that in the State Dept report

on Ireland, and I think such a discriminatory practice would be mentioned, if it still applied. The report does note that most schools are still denominational (so the vast majority will be Catholic), but children can be exempt from religious instruction.

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2004/35461.htm

[tenshi816]

30. Sensible post, but I thought I'd let you know

that the Catholic Church no longer tells children they're going to hell. My kids would be completely nonplussed by such an assertion because no one has ever told them that, not at home, at their Catholic schools or at church. Maybe it's different in the UK, I don't know, but the emphasis nowadays is very much on God's grace, not damnation.

Obviously I'm not suggesting you run back to Catholicism; I'm just saying that things have changed a lot. The Catholic Church today is vastly different from what it used to be. My feeling is that they're taking a softly, softly approach now because the Church has lost so many members over the years.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

39. My mom accepted my lesbianism because of the church

It turns out that her best friend from childhood (a Catholic priest) is gay. She went to him about my "problem" and he explained to her that it wasn't a problem. He's super liberal and has a parish in NYC. He had been working to allow gay priests and priests to marry, but with the current pope, he's calmed down and is honestly quite scared. His position is that people need to lead normal sexual lifestyles and that the church needs to worry more about eradicating pedophiles instead of creating a homophobic witchhunt.

Personally, I feel that he exemplifies what a priest should be. He's kind, understanding, and non-judgemental. Probably, if he ran my mom's parish, I'd probably still go to mass once in a while.

[tenshi816]

42. I knew a priest like that in the UK.

He's the person who got me back into the Church, although I admit I don't go to mass very often. We met because I designed a fund-raising brochure for the local parish church where I lived at the time and one thing led to another. This priest was one of the least judgmental people I've ever known and he firmly believed God wants people to be happy. I never heard him utter a word against gays or anybody else, and he was horrified about pedophilia in the Church, to the point that he used to give lectures to various priest groups about it.

I'm lucky enough now to have a similar priest where I live now. I've always thought this guy was the happiest priest I've ever seen - he lacks that haunted look so many of them have. He's perfectly at home doing what he does. Turns out, he only entered the priesthood when he was well into middle age (he's 74 now). Before that he was married <gasp!> and when his wife died, he decided to become a priest. The way I see it, he's happy because he's not wondering what life with a partner would be like because he's already had that. This priest, too, is a caring, non-judgmental man.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

43. My one aunt is a former nun.

Also super Irish (as in, she judges you on your blood percentage). Anyway, she fell in love with a priest. They both left their vows and got married. They had two daughters. He turned out to be crazy. They got divorced. She became an atheist, he spent 10 years trying to get back into the priesthood. He finally made it. His daughters are trying to write a book called "Father Dad." I think the best story is when one of them called the rectory and left a message with the secretary saying "his daughter called." The poor old woman freaked out and my cousin had to spend a while convincing her that she wasn't a scandal and that her father (the priest) was aware that he had daughters.

[tenshi816]

44. That's a fascinating story.

I hope the daughters are successful with a book because, seriously, that's a story worth telling.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

45. Yeah, we're rooting for them to pull it off.

My aunt and cousins are all cool. Seriously though, the priest dad is a whackjob...although, he firmly believes that his ex-wife & kids are going straight to hell.

[Bridget Burke]

18. I'm not from Ireland but found a famous 1950 case....

In which a Protestant father was told he had to raise the children as Catholic.

Mary Barnes became pregnant at the age of 16 and Mr (Ernest) Tilson, the father of her child, married her. The couple went on to have three more children, although their marriage was unhappy and they were very poor.

One day, while his wife was out working, Mr Tilson surreptitiously removed the children first to his parents’ home and then to Mrs Smyly’s Home ‘designed for necessitous children’ in Dún Laoghaire. From then on, it was understood, the children would be brought up in the Church of Ireland tradition.

www.irishexaminer.com/pport/web/opinion/Full_Story/did-sgI9jw1vz1x9YsgTbBP-2fa91M.asp

Per Catholic policy at the time--NOT confined to Ireland--the father had signed an agreement that all the children be raised Catholic. The Judge found against him on the basis of violating the contract & the children were returned to their mother.

Since then, this case has been used to criticize the Catholic Church in Ireland, although the details are usually omitted.

Much has changed in Ireland since 1950. Does anyone have any more recent information?

[sg_]

12. Fair do's .

Legalised them up in here in N.Ireland not so long ago aswell.

[Bridget Burke]

22. Good! Do you have any more information?

Most sources I can find say that Northeast Ulster still has pretty restrictive laws about abortion.

[sg_]

32. some information

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4540226.stm is all i can find at the minute about the same sex partnerships/marriages.

Here is another link i have found about abortion here. Im not sure if it is much use to you, but it gives a decent picture to what the situation is for anyone else who's interested -

http://www.thesite.org/sexandrelationships/safersex/unplannedpregnancy/abortioninireland

key part is -

Since Northern Ireland was left out of the Abortion Act in 1967, the laws have grown increasingly ambiguous. A woman is generally given an abortion if:


She has a serious medical or psychological problem that is endangering her life if she continues her pregnancy;
She has severe learning difficulties;
Doctor's detect abnormalities in the foetus;
In some cases, women will be offered an abortion if they have become pregnant as a result of rape.

[rinsd]

23. Wow, in the last decade abortion and divorce just became legal there(nt)

[Ignis]

24. The Salon link is faulty, have another? (NT)

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

26. Here's the AP article from Newsday...

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-ireland-gay-partnerships,0,2278259.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines

[Ignis]

29. Thanks much. (NT)

[readmoreoften]

28. My girlfriend was studying in Ireland two years ago...

And was gay bashed the first day she landed in Dublin by a gang of teenagers. I had to fly out there and stay with her to calm her down. Ireland's far from a haven for queers. But it's still good to know that the government is progressive. When we are treated normally people realize that we are normal.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

40. I was there three years ago.

I definitely spent most of my Dublin times in gay bars, and I found it much different than in the US. Most of the people I met weren't openly gay and when entering the place, I was almost always warned that it was a gay establishment. I've never seen that happen in the US. Hell, I turned 21 at a lesbian club with one other lesbian, a bunch of straight girls and one straight man. No one questioned or warned anyone when we went in and we all had a great time.

The issues I ran into were in the countryside. I could be myself in Dublin, but a young solo girl backpacking in the middle of nowhere definitely stands out. I remember befriending the woman that ran the giftshop in Glendalough, small village with old monastery. She absolutely loved my celtic tattoos on my forearms and told me that she wished she could get them herself, but that she'd be ostracized in the village. It wasn't befitting a woman to be tattooed like that.

[BoneDaddy]

31. LOL

If you would have told me that Ireland would give more legal rights to gay people than the US, I would have laughed. As a Irish exCatholic, I am very surprised, pleasantly though. We have so much work to do. WAY TO GO IRELAND

[Peace Patriot]

33. Well, Ireland is an interesting place, and it has always been so.

After the Romans smashed the Druids very nearly to the last wizard--with the final slaughters on Anglesey Island (Mam Cimru--Mother of the Kelts)--Ireland, untouched by Roman rule, was the last refuge of Keltic culture which had once dominated Europe all the way to Turkey. (The Kelts were the first sackers of Rome, back in circa 300 BC.) Ireland was the last of the Keltic cultures to be 'christianized,' and, for a long time, had a very different form of Christianity than anyone else: Pelgianism, much closer to the Chrisianity of Christ himself--later deemed a "heresy" by the greedy, powermongering "Patriachs" of the 5th century AD who established a vast, property-accumulating, state-enforced religious empire.

The Pelagians were into communal living, and--interestingly--at the same time, they honored an individual relationship with God and the spiritual forces of the universe; they were into equality of the sexes (very Keltic), and reverence for the Mother God (a balanced view of male/female modes), and a peaceful relationship with Paganism and nature worship. They saw no conflict between these two great religions. The Pelagian monks lived among the people, were loved by the people, were of the people, and were very likely--at some points--the same as Druid wizards, whose extensive scientific knowledge (in astronomy, biology, medicine, mineralogy/blacksmithing, engineering and--rather important to the Kelts--poetry) guided the peoples' relationship with the land. It was not an "ownership society." It was much closer to the Native American view--the land is sacred. The Medieval notions of the Anglo-Saxon/Norman British--of turning the people into SERFS, who tilled the land as virtual owned slaves of remote and high-ass landowners--was very foreign to the Irish, and they have resisted it for over a thousand years. The SECOND wave of Christianity brought this "Roman Empire" view to Ireland. Neither thing--Roman Catholicism, or Roman land law--ever sat well with the Irish.

So the Irish view of priests is a very peculiar one. It has a 2,000 to 3,000 year reach back to the Druid religious order, and to the Pelagian monks (Druid/Christian "saints"--including, for instance, "Saint Brigid," an ancient Irish Goddess). The Irish tolerate their Catholic priests' ties to Rome, and its absurd sexual dictates, out of reverence for the spiritual nature of humankind--a long-lived and profound native tradition. They lost their real priests in the long and vicious Roman war against the Druids/Pelagians. But there has never ever been ANY fascism* in Ireland--such as found in Italy, for instance (serious collusion between the Catholic Church and rich fascists). And the Irish utterly resisted the Inquisition. They lied; they hid people; they did not permit the Inquisition to gain a foothold. They had too much love and respect for their "witches" (Druid/Pelagian Christians).

*(There is a form of patriarchalism,--which I suppose you could call a face of fascism (domestic fascism)--but it is more tribal than religious--going way back to tribal organization around "kings." However, did you ever meet an Irish woman who was not an utter rebel (either overt or covert) against male domination? It has been a pretty equal contest.)

---------------

Here is the essence of Pelagius (who was likely born in Ireland) (by another Pelagian writer):

1. Adam's sin harmed only himself, not the human race.
2. Children just born are in the same state as Adam before his fall.
3. The whole human race neither dies through Adam's sin or death, nor rises again through the resurrection of Christ.
4. The (Mosaic Law) is as good a guide to heaven as the Gospel.
5. Even before the advent of Christ there were men who were without sin.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11604a.htm (beware--this is a Roman Catholic text--but it does lay out the history).

Pelagius' sin was, a) believing that babies are INNOCENT (are not cursed with Adam's sin--which changes the whole coloration of Christianity, from life as punishment, to life as an opportunity to become enlightened), and b) he disagreed with Rome imposing religious doctrine (was disobedient). Pelagius was a very holy man, in the Greek Stoic tradition, whose ideas (which were widespread), if they had won the day, would have transformed the imperial church into a peaceful religion. Instead the Church followed the opposite of Christ's teaching and became an arm of the state, i.e., a method of violence.

Ireland was the birthplace of this RETURN to the original teachings of Jesus, in the 4th/5th centuries. Its earliest monks were always different from other monks--closer to the people, less severe, more human, and probably holier. (Also, more ARTISTIC!). And it was THIS religion--a meld of Keltic/Druidism and Christianity--that "saved western civilization" during the Dark Ages--NOT the fascist Roman religion. And it is still alive in Ireland (the people of the long memory). That is why debates about divorce and abortion are simply not the same there as they are here. The debate is on different and far more ancient ground, and has to do with this ancient controversy between late-imposed Roman law and the long untamed, freedom-loving Kelts, and the compromises between the two, over millennia. And I'm not sure we can understand it.

[Peace Patriot]

34. There is a new twist to all this, and it is the EU. Ireland has become

very prosperous since it joined the EU, and Ahern may in part be responding to EU liberal social policy, in advocating for legalizing gay marriage in Ireland. "New," in a way. Maybe very old, actually. Prior to the Roman Empire, Ireland was not an outback of Europe, but the very center of ancient European culture. The Druid school at Anglesey (an island off Wales in close proximity to Ireland) was where the brightest children of Europe were sent to be educated. We tend to forget how mobile people were in those times--with the mysterious Phoenicians (the navigators, builders and alphabet-creators of Europe, the Atlantic, North Africa and the Middle East) sailing everywhere, even around the horn of Africa. We tend to see European history through the dark lens of the Middle Ages (vast serfdom). But way back when--Ireland was "the island of the radiant door," the place of learning and beauty. Rome and England combined to smash Ireland's centrality to western civilization. Ireland is now RE-JOINING what it once dominated, in the heyday of the Kelts and the Druids, and will likely find great kinship with the Enlightenment that now flourishes in Europe (has been dimmed in England, and has nearly gone out in the U.S., on the surface of things anyway). Part of that Enlightenment has involved rediscovery of Gaia, Mother Earth, from way, way back--something that has never been lost in Ireland. (Try to pollute the earth in Mother Ireland, and you will find yourself tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail!). (It is truly the most unspoiled, beautiful, green place on earth!).

[Odin2005]

36. I read that in the early middle ages...

The british iseles could of become seperate "Far Westerm" Civilization distinct from the Western civilization developing on the European continent, but then the Anglo-Saxons converted to the continental instead of the Celtic branch of catholicism and Ireland was devestated by the vikings, leading to this embryonic "War Western" Christendom to be absorbed by the West when the English came knocking.

[Lisa]

37. there's a rather interesting documentary, "Britain BC"

It aired on the History Channel recently. The presenter got quite political at the end, and made a direct connection between the suppression of Celtic culture and the rise of British imperialism (including British involvement in the Middle East, right to the present Iraq War).

Though they didn't mention the fact that the Bush family is descended from the notorious Norman knight "Strongbow" who invaded Ireland!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,1399353,00.html

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

41. I didn't know that Bush was a descendent.

Another reason to dislike him.

[Lisa]

46. well, he makes Bush look like a total wimp!

Bush inherited the tough talk, but that Strongbow guy sounds like he was pretty scary on the battlefield (without the Pentagon to back him up).

[Bridget Burke]

38. There's another way to look at Irish culture...

Bob Quinn's The Atlantean Irish: Ireland's Oriental & Maritime Heritage finally appeared in a new edition--after being out of print. (By the way--this has NOTHING to do with Atlantis!) Here's what the publisher has to say:

Irish identity is best understood from a maritime perspective. For eight millennia the island has been a haven for explorers, settlers, colonists, navigators, pirates and traders, absorbing goods and peoples from all points of the compass. The reduction of the islanders to the exclusive category 'Celtic' has persisted for three hundred years, and is here rejected as impossibly narrow. No classical author ever described Ireland's inhabitants as 'Celts', and neither did the Irish so describe themselves until recent times. The islanders' sea-girt culture has been crucially shaped by Middle Eastern as well as by European civilizations, by an Islamic heritage as well as a Christian one. The Irish language itself has antique roots extended over thousands of years' trading up and down the Atlantic seaways.

Over the past twenty years Bob Quinn has traced archaeological, linguistic, religious and economic connections from Egypt to Arann, from Morocco to Newgrange, from Cairo and Compostela to Carraroe. Taking Conamara sean-nos singing and its Arabic equivalents, and a North African linguistic stratum under the Irish tongue, Quinn marshalls evidence from field archaeology, boat-types, manuscript illuminations, weaving patterns, mythology, literature, art and artefacts to support a challenging thesis that cites, among other recent studies of the Irish genome, new mitochondrial DNA analysis in the Atlantic zone from north Iberia to west Scandinavia.

www.lilliputpress.ie/listbook.html?oid=2733139

Archaeologist Barry Cunliffe wrote the forward to this edition. His own Facing the Ocean: The Atlantic and Its Peoples 8000 BC-AD 1500 deals with many of these issues in a thoroughly scholarly manner. Bob Quinn is an inspired amateur.

(I hope that you did not adapt the "Keltic" spelling from the leaden fantasies of Patricia Kenealy.)

[Odin2005]

35. Ireland has one of the hottest economies in Europe.

My oh my how the tables have turned, the Irish economy is prospering while the British economy of thier former masters is quite stagnant. They are a bit socially conservative though, I'd assume a result of the importance the RCC in Irish national identity, kind of like Poland.

[Dutch]

47. That's true, apart from the British economy being stagnant

It's one of the Europe's best-performing economies, along with Ireland (which is #1) and the Scandinavian countries. Not that it's a competition given that both countries are partners in the EU- and a very warm partnership it is too, much to the chagrin of Northern Irish extremists and a few fantasist distant descendants of emigrants.