Iran 'shoots down unmanned plane'

[leftchick]

:scared:

http://dailytelegraph.news.com.au/story/0,20281,18766793-5001028,00.html

IRAN had shot down an unmanned surveillance plane in the south amid reports that the United States is planning military strikes on Iranian nuclear facilities, a press report said today.

"This plane had taken off from Iraq and was filming border areas," a report in the hardline Jumhuri Eslami newspaper said.

It added the Islamic Republic "officials have obtained information from the plane system and recordings", without giving any further details.

US publications reported over the weekend that the White House was studying options for military strikes against Iran's nuclear facilities to pressure Tehran to abandon its controversial nuclear program.

The US media has reported that the US military has been secretly flying surveillance drones over Iran since 2004 using radar, video, still photography and air filters to detect traces of nuclear activity not accessible to satellites.

[acmavm]

1. Okey dokey, it's starting. Where are the saner minds in the military

right now. They certainly have to know that we cannot possibly withstand a three-front war. Because that is most certainly what we will have.

We are losing in Iraq and don't have any control over Afganistan (except for maybe a six-block are in Kabul). What is wrong with the leaders of our military? What are they thinking? Or are they?

[leftchick]

2. remember Rummy's purge of the DOD

and pentagon? :(

[sasha031]

4. that's right, anyone who had a normal brain

was put out to pasture...

[acmavm]

7. Yeah, now that you mention it. But what are we left with? Totally insane

crazies?

[leftchick]

9. PNAC neo-freaks, aka: crazies...

from Hersh's article...

All of these guys are PNAC....

<snip>

The chairman of the Defense Science Board is William Schneider, Jr., an Under-Secretary of State in the Reagan Administration. In January, 2001, as President Bush prepared to take office, Schneider served on an ad-hoc panel on nuclear forces sponsored by the National Institute for Public Policy, a conservative think tank. The panel’s report recommended treating tactical nuclear weapons as an essential part of the U.S. arsenal and noted their suitability “for those occasions when the certain and prompt destruction of high priority targets is essential and beyond the promise of conventional weapons.” Several signers of the report are now prominent members of the Bush Administration, including Stephen Hadley, the national-security adviser; Stephen Cambone, the Under-Secretary of Defense for Intelligence; and Robert Joseph, the Under-Secretary of State for Arms Control and International Security.

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/060417fa_fact

[acmavm]

13. I was talking (typing) more about the guys who have to actually do

the dirty work, do the fighting on the scene. I know the PNACers are chickenshit cowards who don't mind sending somebody else to die so they can get what they want. That's just a given. I'm talking about some generals, colonels, etc. who don't want to see their troops die needlessly for nothing but adding to the power and bankrolls of a few traitors. In fact, that cuts right down to what I mean. Where are these guys who have spent their lives in the military? Why are they so quick to serve traitors to our country, everything it's always stood for?

[Tight_rope]

65. YES...the Military is listening to RunnytheDummy!

[zann725]

15. Calling President Kerry....President Kerry?

This kind of pre-emptive irresponsibily can NOT go unchecked until '08...if this planet is to survive.

[EVDebs]

30. They seem to be retired: AF Col. Sam Gardiner (ret.)

Mentioned as having 'war-gamed' Iran and teaches at National Defense Univ. At a recent conference in Berlin he outlined a five day operation requiring 400 'aim points' etc. "Gardiner concluded that a military option would not work, but said he believes the United States seems to be moving inexorably toward it":

""Retired Air Force Col. Sam Gardiner, an expert in targeting and war games who teaches at the National Defense University, recently gamed an Iran attack and identified 24 potential nuclear-related facilities, some below 50 feet of reinforced concrete and soil.

At a conference in Berlin, Gardiner outlined a five-day operation that would require 400 "aim points," or targets for individual weapons, at nuclear facilities, at least 75 of which would require penetrating weapons. He also presumed the Pentagon would hit two chemical production plants, medium-range ballistic missile launchers and 14 airfields with sheltered aircraft. Special Operations forces would be required, he said.

Gardiner concluded that a military attack would not work, but said he thinks the United States seems to be moving inexorably toward it. "The Bush administration is very close to being left with only the military option," he said.""

US studies military strike options on Iran (Sun. April 9, 2004)
http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060409/NEWS/604090406/1039

A related story with Iran being 'aware' of its position is at

Military force can't destroy our atomic program: Iran
by Louis Charbonneau
Reuters
Monday, March 27, 2006;
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/27/AR2006032700461.html

""I say before the November elections there will be a serious decision made in the United States," he (Gardiner) said. Basically Iran is saying 'go ahead and strike' ??? Both sides are nutz.

[NYC]

60. 3 front war = one big contiguous war.

One big area: Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan.

Edited again. I didn't get the National Geographic map.

[katty]

64. right now and for quite awhile 'saner' minds don't hold the power

[sasha031]

3. my anxiety just went up 1000%

this will be the excuse the US will use...

[Name removed]

11. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[saigon68]

71. adios

vaya con dios

[EFerrari]

5. You have to wonder at the deep complicity of this Congress,

this "See No Evil" Congress. They know exactly what the Cabal is up to and crickets.

It's disgusting. What are they going to say after their next vote to use force, "We were misled"?

[leftchick]

8. they don't need to vote for a preemptive strike

chimpy said he could do it anytime without congress' approval. Not that they wouldn't give it to him anyway. :(

[Media_Lies_Daily]

23. It's all in the fine print of the Patriot Act....

...the NeoCons reserve the right to attack any country guilty of, or supporting terrorism. That's why these clowns try to connect the countries they've targeted with terrorism at every opportunity.

[EFerrari]

26. And the See No Evil Congress give the PA a pass.

Why do they bother to show up to work?

[nannah]

25. wire tapping yields vote management

my sadly cynical belief on the voting patterns in congress is that congressional vote are"managed" by threats to reveal the dark secrets of members of congress. I think that one focus of the extensive surveillance of Americans is to gather information to be used to "encourage" targets to say and do what is needed by the leadership.

[TankLV]

33. There will be NO EXCUSES this time around. NONE.

We will be watching and listening CAREFULLY this time around - even more so than last time.

If ANY of our dems support this criminal endeavor - ANY of them - they will deserve our enmity and we should work to GET RID OF THEM!

Just having a "d" after their name will not be enough any longer.

The criminality and lying of all repukes is a given.

It's our own democrats that we must watch carefully.

WE ARE WATCHING NOW!

[boobooday]

6. This can't be good

And it sounds eerily like Bush's plan to provoke Iraq, as outlined in the Downing Street memo.

[Astrad]

10. The US government is reporting that two

unmanned pilots were killed in the shooting down of its unmanned plane over Iran. The secretary of defense called this an 'act of the greatest barbarity that will not go unanswered!' The names of the unmanned pilots were not released pending notification of their next of tin.

[Mr_Spock]

12. lol - that about how seriously I take this story as well

It's just another provocation by the US to try to get the Iranians to act in an aggressive way. It's the US that is the violator here...

[Spazito]

14. LOL! Perfect!

[LynnTheDem]

19. OMG!!! TWO unmanned pilots were killed???!!

Ok that's it...we MUST take our revenge!

(They were two AMERICAN unmanned pilots, right?)

:rofl:

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

29. Brothers named Maddox and Turner Joy

[EVDebs]

32. Follows the same procedure Allen Dulles used in the U2 incident

with Francis Gary Power's plane being shorted on fuel...as Fletcher Prouty shows us:

THE SABOTAGING OF THE AMERICAN PRESIDENCY
by L. Fletcher Prouty
reprinted with permission of the author

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/SAP.html#begin

When they want a war, they will create conditions to facilitate it. It helps to have nut cases like Ahmadinajhad in power too, of course. Two fundumentalist armageddonists who deserve eachother, he and Bush.

[TankLV]

34. What the hell is "unmanned pilolts" - either the planes were UNMANNED

meaning NO PILOTS - or they were MANNED - "with" pilots.

There is no such thing as "unmanned" pilots!

[DemInDistress]

37. tank..unmanned pilots...notified the next of "tin" sounded like

a joke opposed to a real story. reread it.

[LynnTheDem]

51. But there IS such a thing as SATIRE, yes?

Aka "humor"?

;)

[Roland99]

16. I don't doubt the US is flying drones but I want to see the pics of this

in Iranian hands.


What more would the public need at that point?

[Roland99]

17. One thing I was just reminded of (re: the morning of Sept. 11, 2001)

On the way in to work that day (and before the planes struck the towers and the Pentagon), there were reports of an unmanned drone being shot down over Iraq.

:scared:

[LynnTheDem]

18. If that drone was in Iranian airspace, good for Iran shooting it down.

Strange idea to bushCabal & the bushbots, I know, but Iran has a right to defend itself.

[Just Me]

45. Is the USA committing an act of war? Was it OUR drone?

My guess is, of course it was ours because the PNACers are foaming at the mouth to lauch bunker buster nukes and destabilize Iran.

I wish ANY individual with legal authority would throw handcuffs on these wackos before it's too late.

[bdamomma]

72. I wish

those joint chiefs would pressure this administration more. the senior joint chiefs said they would resign before the carry out this suicide act. Bush is a sick man, does anyone want this man to carry out his sick plan, his legacy? Is this what we want for us and the rest of the world.

[coalition_unwilling]

69. Is it being a poor sport to root for Iran? (n/t)

[savemefromdumbya]

20. Here we go, here we go. here we go

[burythehatchet]

21. With Valerie Plame having been outed

and Brewster Jennings neutralized, intelligence On Iran has been compromised. Scott Ritter has already said the administraion claims are bullshit. This is like a recurring nightmare.

[sweetheart]

22. well, heck it's their job

The military surely is, on one contingency planning level or another, considering
an iran attack. The drones test AA capability.

Figure the first strike will be with cruize missiles with emp warheads, Then send
in fire suppression warthogs on to coastal batteries, all to draw fire off the
primary strike corridor.

and these shut down the electrics of the target corridor, and then a reapeated series of
strikes with conventional bunker busters flying 1000 sorties against a series of
targets.

The fire supression and convoy surrounding craft would take some
damage, but if the missile strike is well planned, the AA
wouldn't come back in any strength to stop a very successful
repeated strike, over and over at teh same point, much more
effective than a bunker buster, more the "vulcan gun of bunkder busting" sort
of thinking.

I can feel those boys rarin to go. The military is always ready,
its their job. Rumsfeld was a champion wrestler in his youth.
That tells you a lot about his war technique, he's a go getter
hustler pit bull, thinks himself much more than patton, a mere
general... rumsfeld the great commander, peer of the realm, lord
of the middle east.

Naah, it wasn't really a surveiallance drone, it was a toy airplane,
flown by a child, the iranians must be shooting at birds.

[teryang]

24. He's go getting our treasury dollars to his corporate cronies

His strategy is a complete failure. Losing a war equals complete political and military failure. The threats against Iran is a expanding the war to cover a complete diaster.

[sweetheart]

35. Think of all the good jobs rumsfeld is defending

His accomplishments are not to be scoffed at, he's taken a
first rate force and screwed the pooch, getting 'is own killed
whilst 'e plays 'ardass in the command tent.

Wrestlin' ain't killin. That's why he's a such a fuckup. Killers
don't do their job unless absolutely necessary, and if its right to
take a blow and not draw one's sword, the ability to show mercy
and restraint. Saddam was wrestlin, not killin. And rumsfeld, its
arguable whether you're on top in this match right now, 3rd round,
your 2 nearfalls, and whilst you're up on points, you're bridged up
on your back with 1 shoulder on the mat praying for the buzzer.

[Malva Zebrina]

27. It will be interesting to see the reaction of our elected congress to this

Crickets?

Can we expect any up front confrontration of the insanity of Bush's foreign policy re Iran as reported by Sy Hersh or will we just hear crickets?

AGAIN!

How bout it Kerry? Got anything to say about Iran and the plans that are reportedly on the table in the offal office. You made news with your Iraq plan for a day or two. It's gone now. Iran in on the agenda, apparently. Gonna stand up and fight against this insanity or will you lay back and wait again for others to make their case, then come out with a grand plan for Iran--as children die from radiation poisoning and as the ME is thrown into more turmoil that we have ever seen.

Hillary? Got anything to say? Are you for invading Iran and dropping bombs , nukes even, on the citizens of Iran. For that Hillary? You gave him the permission to do so, you know. You too Kerry. Still making friends with the god fearing friends on the religious right who believe that Armageddon, signified by utter chaos in the ME, NEEDS their help, even though their god is supposedly perfectly capable of running things according to his "plan"-- gonna still kiss their ass?

[TankLV]

36. Now you went and done it!

But you took the words out of my mouth - almost.

To be fair, Kerry and others actually TRUSTED the repukes and bunkerboy last time, even tho WE all knew better. Just couldn't get their mind wrapped around the fact that these scumbags can not EVER be "trusted".

Can't blame them - it's pretty hard for some to even think that their "president" doesn't have the best interests of the country at heart and would REPEATEDLY LIE - not "misspeak" - not "misunderstand" - not the fault of others or intelligence that they were led to believe - but the AUTHORS and INSTIGATORS of CRIMES!

But this time there will be NO EXCUSES. NONE.

[Malva Zebrina]

48. no, there will be no excuses, except Bush does not have to go before

Congress this time around. He been there, got the stamp of approval, and done that. No second chances for the politicians who claim they were mislead and duped.

That is why it will take some extraordinarily brave and courageous person from the Democrats to challenge him--perhaps like fully supporting a censor or better yet, Impeachment. God knows there are plenty of grounds for this.

That might be the first step, do you think? There is not much time--I think waiting for the "06 election and hoping to gain at least one chamber, is putting too much at risk, knowing the evildoer Bush's megalomania. Is Kerry that man? I am inclined to think, given his past behavior, he is not going to risk it. Time will tell

[MiniMe]

63. Notice this happened within days of congress leaving town for their recess

Coincidence??

[revree]

28. Here we go...

Spying, then war, then the end times for all those lovely Christian righties waiting to be raptured into the clouds.
GOODBYE and GOOD RIDDANCE.

[shenmue]

31. Oh shit, here we go

:scared:

How soon can we get this loser out of office? He is putting the whole world in danger.

[brentspeak]

38. Could it just be that Iran is making this up?

I would like to see some pictures, some hard evidence of this too. This is a good test of an individual's gullibility to simply accept this as fact because of something Iran said.

Essentially, if you were to buy this story based solely on Iran's word, then that is firm proof you are a qualified idiot.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Just Me]

46. Are you talking about our drones or Iran shooting one down.

There's been news about the USA doing drones over Iran for quite some time. Here's a reminder of one of the early reports in case you've forgotten:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/29/world/main646227.shtml

[leftchick]

49. Sy Hersh has reported there being US military personel in Iran

on the ground, right now. It makes sense that there would be drones as well.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Roland99]

62. He said that over a year ago.That the US has been running missions in Iran

http://www.conjur.com/blog/2005/03/04/an-audience-with-seymour-hersh/

In regards to Iran, Hersh stated that his contacts and research points to four different groups of U.S. Special Forces being in place in Iran. A member of the audience questioned Hersh’s credibility and accused him of harboring an anti-Bush bias. Hersh replied to the written question that the articles he writes are based upon information from his contacts, many of which are very high up in the intelligence community, the Pentagon, and the government and his information usually shows up a few weeks later in the mainstream media as accepted fact. He hasn’t been wrong yet. Hersh only reveals the names of his sources when allowed to do so. Most of his contacts, however, work in intelligence and revealing their names would compromise their safety and their jobs. Hersh did say that some high-ranking Pentagon officials are very critical and upset with the Bush administration but are unable to make public comments to that effect. As far as Hersh’s comments that fighting with Iran is imminent, he was told that if he wrote the piece correctly, there wouldn’t be a fight (meaning, if he uncovered enough information and enough people read it and criticized the Bush administration, an invasion or an attack on Iran would not happen.) Hersh also tossed aside talk of a draft stating the Pentagon doesn’t want to see an influx of people who do not want to fight and, also, getting a draft through Congress would be very difficult right now.

The general sentiment coming out of Hersh’s speech and the question-and-answer segment was that the Bush administration was selling fear in the name of a mission to do God’s work, on a very selective basis. Hersh is genuinely frightened of this administration and its penchant to do anything and say anything with almost total impunity. Hersh also was of the belief that our media is all but complicit in the fear mongering coming from the Bush administration, failing to be objective and critical of the government, as its job should be. The mega-media companies that have resulted in the wake of the FCC deregulation have harmed the credibility of our media and the American public is not protesting as effectively as the anti-war demonstrators during the Vietnam era.

That "piece" is an article he wrote for the New Yorker last year. It was called "The Coming Wars"
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?050124fa_fact

[TankLV]

67. This is also a good test of some yahoo's gullibility if they simply accept

this as fact because of something - ANYTHING - bush* OR a REPUKE said!

I'd trust Iran before I'd trust bunkerboy or a repuke!

Essentially, if you were to buy this story based solely on bunkerboy's or a repuke's word, then that is firm proof YOU are a qualified idiot.

You need to look in the mirror.

[HuffleClaw]

39. clearly a provocation meant to destabilize the region !

but seriously, good for them. should be funny to hear how bushco. spins this. violating another nations airspace is not playing nice.

[Earth_First]

40. I'd like to see the photographs... n/t

[Bo]

41. Iran with a Nuke,bye bye Israel

Thats for sure...they will use it they are more insane than shrub...I think they need to be stopped using whatever means necessary.

[LynnTheDem]

52. Oy.

:eyes:

[leftchick]

53. they don't have a nuke

the idiots in charge are provoking them into getting nukes. In say 5-10 years. Hardly a threat today.

As for Israel, who do you suppose Iran would strike first with conventional missiles AFTER a US strike?

This is why the UKs Jack Straw termed this scenario "NUTS"!

Are you getting the picture here?

[daleo]

54. Israel has hundreds of nukes to counterstrike with

The idea that Iranians are so anti-semetic that they would commit suicide in order to destroy Israel is not backed up by any evidence. To me, it smacks of prejudice.

[Kailassa]

55. Nobody is more insane than shrub. n/t

[MasonJar]

42. With Bush rhetoric (well, actually from Bush rhetoric is too eloquent

a word), so with Bush malapropisms can you blame them? I think we have a crazy man in charge and so does Iran. The combination is going to be catastrophic.

[Terran1212]

44. Bush will say "this gives me executive war powers!"

I bet they were intentionally trying to provoke Iran, just like they discussed with the U2 spyplane with Iraq.

[Tight_rope]

66. Yes...it's like provoking a Pitbull.....Eventually it will bite back.

Hell any animal for that manner. If you are in anyone's terroritory causing trouble, expect it/them to fight back.

[Jersey Devil]

47. A balloon floated by * no doubt to pave the way for the Gulf of Tonkin

incident that he will use to justify the bombings. If he gets any kind of a positive reaction for retaliation from this the next "incident" will include the loss of life by some poor sacrificial lamb in the US armed forces.

[BattyDem]

56. I have a question

Doesn't Iran - or any country - have the right to shoot down an identified plane in their air space? Just askin' ... :shrug:

[leftchick]

57. shit yeah!

that is why this is all such bullshit. By the chimps definition of preemtive strikes, Iran could launch a missile at the US because we have threatened them! How fucked is that?

[kestrel91316]

58. Holy Gulf of Tonkin, Batman!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[0007]

59. Shit man, all the U.S. has to do is send Lina Tripp & Paula Jones

to Iran.


Where's Linda Tripp when ya need her?

[NYC]

61. You need to post a warning label.

I didn't want to see that picture. I'm likely to have nightmares.

[coalition_unwilling]

68. Is it being a poor sport to root for Iran? (n/t)

[lovuian]

70. A replay of Iraq...

testing the Iranian borders...

[jberryhill]

73. I hope the women that were on the plane are okay.