Baghdad street patrols resume ("temporary" shift in U.S. strategy)

[sabra]

http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-1677365.php

Baghdad street patrols resume
Associated Press


BAGHDAD, Iraq — A month ago, areas of western Baghdad were testament to the U.S. strategy of handing over security responsibility. Iraqi soldiers manned checkpoints while U.S. troops carefully kept their distance.

But American soldiers have again hit the streets of west Baghdad neighborhoods such as Shula and Ghazaliyah, shouldering a larger security burden amid tensions between Sunnis and Shiites.

...

The U.S. mission has been refocused to confront sectarian death squads that have brutally tortured and killed hundreds. The new mission is a tacit acknowledgment that Iraqi troops had not been able to control sectarian violence on their own.

“Iraqi security forces can control large acts, but you can’t be everywhere at once. It’s like serious crime in the U.S. How do you prevent someone in Houston from going into someone’s house?” said Capt. Matt Brown of Eau Claire, Wis.

[paparush]

1. The Mission is Very Flexible...See...

First it was to rid Sadamm of WMDs
Then, the Mission was to rid the World of an Evil Dictator
Then, the Mission was to bring Freedom* to the Iraqi People.
Now, the Mission is to prevent civil war.

[rodeodance]

2. sad to see the troops being put back out

[onager]

3. Hey! Who turned out the light at the end of the tunnel?

n/t

[Supersedeas]

4. tacit admisssion that the training program is not up to par

[flamingyouth]

5. kick

[Barrett808]

6. U.S. Troops Again Patrolling in Baghdad ("they don't want or need us")

U.S. Troops Again Patrolling in Baghdad
By ANTONIO CASTANEDA, Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq - American soldiers have again hit the streets of dangerous neighborhoods in western Baghdad that had been handed over to Iraqi forces, trying to keep a lid on sectarian attacks that have raged since the February bombing of a Shiite shrine in Samarra.

The U.S. military has refocused its mission to confront death squads that have tortured and killed hundreds, a tacit acknowledgment that Iraqi troops have not been able to control violence between Shiites and Sunnis on their own.

...

The return of more U.S. forces to the area just over a month after they left has tested relationships with Iraqi soldiers, however.

"To be perfectly honest, they were a little (angry) that we came back into their sector," said 1st Lt. John Ford of Houston. "It's getting to a point where they don't want or need us. It's unfortunate because we have a lot of assets to bring to the table."

(more)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060410/ap_on_re_mi_ea/back_to_baghdad

[opihimoimoi]

7. We never seem to learn...do we?

[0007]

23. We didn't learn much in Vietnam or Korea, we keep falling prey

to the same tricks over and over.

The Iraq troop don't have the heart and soul into the fight for IRaq for the US.

[yellowcanine]

8. This attitude ought to improve relations between U.S. and Iraqi troops.

Whatever limitations the U.S. troops have in controlling the violence, they expressed concern that Iraqi troops were still not up to the task. Some said Iraqi soldiers tend to cluster around checkpoints rather than walking regular beats through neighborhoods.

"I think it's a cultural thing, whereas we're used to working 8-10 hours a day ... they're used to working 4-5 hours per day," Ford said.


Jeebus, one would think we hadn't learned a thing in Vietnam.

[Supersedeas]

21. get out of the way and let a real man handle YOUR business

[lyonn]

9. Damn this administration

More of the same and worse. A 1st lt., wow. He could get hurt. Then again, by saying this he may keep his troops loyal to him.

Since I don't believe in hell I want these bastards calling the shots brought before a Real Judge.

[madrchsod]

10. we could have done a pretty good job in iraq-IF-there were

a PLAN, but that was something the whitehouse really did`t care about. i think the iraqi people were glad to see us but that turned to shit when they realized there wasn`t any plans to help them.

here is what one young journalist has to say about those first days

http://twentyfourstepstoliberty.blogspot.com/
24 Steps to Liberty

the arts in baghdad behind the green "doors"


http://baghdadtreasure.blogspot.com/
Treasure of Baghdad

[coalition_unwilling]

11. I hate to puncture your liberal balloon, but according to

Seymour Hersh (in the Epilogue to the First Edition of "Chain of Command"), Saddam had conluded as early as January, 2002 (more than 15 months before the invasion commenced) that Iraq would be invaded. He reached this conclusion after he had put forward informal peace feelers to the BFEE post-9/11 only to have them thoroughly rebuffed.

Hersh interviewed a former Iraqi general in Jordan who told him that Upon Saddam reaching that conclusion in January, 2002, Saddam instructed his general staff to begin studying histories of the Vietnam War and to begin re-organizing the Iraqi military with an eye toward conducting a guerilla war, aka, "insurgency".

So, when you write "we could have done a pretty good job in iraq," the only way to have done a pretty good job in Iraq would have been never to invade\occupy and, perhaps, to foster internal dissent leading to the internal overthrow of Saddam. Your argument seems to suggest that there was some way we could have "won" (whatever that means) and that the reason we did not was for lack of a "plan" (whatever that means).

Exactly what "plan" would have allowed us to do a "pretty good job" in Iraq or even just a "better job" than we did in Vietnam and S.E. Asia?

[madrchsod]

13. ask the people i linked to

i`m just reporting what they said.as i stated there wasn`t a plan because they didn`t care. the war in iraq now has little to do with what ever military saddam had left.

[sandnsea]

16. We could have learned from Vietnam

Obviously not concocting excuses for war would have been the first lesson. But strictly militarily and politically, we still haven't learned anything about "insurgencies". When we started doing search and destroy type missions, we lost any chance of stabilizing Iraq. There was a way to stabilize Iraq and leave: bring in the Arab League, UN and NATO, pour reconstruction money to the IRAQI's, have our troops do nothing except patrol borders and perimeter type work.

But leaving was never Bush's goal and the people in charge are still deluded about "winning" in Vietnam, so in that sense, there was never any hope for Iraq with the neocons in charge.

[coalition_unwilling]

20. Personally, I think it was lost when the U.S. Marines went

through "Sniper Alley" in Nasiriyah (sp?) during the drive to Baghdad. The Saddam fedayeen gave us just a tiny fore-taste of what we could expect once the "mirage" of the SH statue falling had dissipated. Or maybe it was lost before we even invaded, when our military intelligence completely failed to pick up SH's plans to conduct a guerilla war.

I do think it could have been "lost" at far less cost had we followed your prescription and turned it over to the Arab League. Maybe that's by way of saying that terms like "won" and "lost" don't really have much meaning, outside of an athletic stadium.

[madrchsod]

17. just what is a "liberal ballon?"

i funny i thought this was a "liberal site"

[coalition_unwilling]

19. It's a "liberal" position to assume that invasion\occupation works

provided there is a sufficient "plan." (This was the position Kerry took during the 2004 general election campaign, that we needed a "plan" to win the peace.) A more radical position is that invasion\occupation is almost always doomed to failure especially when that invasion\occupation are by-products of "imperialism" (in the sense that V. Lenin used the term). In other words, the radical position is that the plan ipso facto doesn't matter. No matter the plan, invasion\occupation for and by imperialism will almost always fail.

Did I answer your question or did I mis-understand what you were trying to express?

[MrPrax]

12. Oh...so it was the

'lack of a plan' now. At least that is an improvement over the 'civillian government wouldn't let us win' garbage...

"i think the iraqi people were glad to see us" The Iraqis were NEVER EVER glad to see American troops occupying their country.

Just Say No! to Kool-Aid

[coalition_unwilling]

14. Thank you -- I highly recommend the Epilogue to S. Hersh's

"Chain of Command" (1st Edition) Saddam Hussein proved an Iraqi patriot in the end, as he foresaw his own downfall and still instructed his military to change strategy from a conventional set of set-piece battles to a protracted guerilla war. Note that SH could have simply fled the country -- remember BFEE's "48-hour ultimatum"? I'm not trying to rehabilitate his image, but I can't help admiring him for resisting BFEE (and being smarter and craftier, not that that was particularly difficult :)

[Kailassa]

24. I'm so glad to see someone here who thinks for themselves,

rather than unquestioningly absorbing the propaganda.

Such a large part of peoples' beliefs is influenced by the idea that America is bigger/better/stronger/cleverer/more deserving than other countries, and people have been fed this for so long, that they can't even see how it colours the glasses they see through.

Sometimes it almost makes me wish America could be brutalized as Iraq has been, and Australia too, as we are not much different, but then I come across posters who make me realize sanity has not altogether departed from this world.

[madrchsod]

15. again ask the person who posted this on his site

i`m just reporting. it seems he would have a better idea about what is happening in iraq today than you or me.

[sandnsea]

18. That's not true

Many Iraqi's WERE glad to see American troops throw out Saddam. And they WERE willing to tolerate a short term occupation. If we had immediately brought in a global effort, including from other Arab nations, there would have been a very good chance for a different outcome in Iraq.

[MrPrax]

25. Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda...

Like I SAID...you'd think the mess you left in Vietnam would have told you something.

You would think that the entire world saying--BAD FUCKIN' IDEA would have been considered well before some surreal journey down Bushism lane in your reply.

RIGHT!! If only the UN and everybody else "brought in a global effort"!!??

I'll just go and pin that up next to 'we didn't have a plan' and the ever popular 'PNAC neo-con republicans' subverted the government' on the fridge.

Which color magnetic did you want, dear?

[sandnsea]

26. Lies don't help anything

It doesn't do any good in understanding Iraq to lie about the fact that they hated Saddam and are glad he's gone. Anymore than it does any good for people to lie about the millions of tons of bombs dropped in Vietnam and that we could have won militarily. We have a situation in Sudan that people want handled. Yet, if we don't learn the lessons of both Iraq and Vietnam, there will never be a global effort to resolve Sudan. It's the basic problem of the left, they bitch when nothing is done and they bitch when something is done. As much as they praise Venezuela and Cuba, they'd bitch if they lived their too. They just bitch and twist reality in order to bitch some more, and then wonder why nobody pays any attention to them.

[Rex]

22. You keep people from going into others houses because they

fear the Law of the Land. Same can't be said in lawless Iraq.

[Roland99]

27. One step forward, two steps back...and they think it'll work in Iran????

[rocktivity]

28. GOOD NEWS!

Coalition troops and sectarian death squads are working together to prevent Iraqi civil war!

:party: (This post is part of the George Bush GULF WAR initiative.)
rocknation