US like Nazis: British Iraq refusnik

[ECH1969]

A British Air Force doctor on trial for refusing to go to Iraq because he thought the war was illegal said on Wednesday he believed the United States was the moral equivalent of Nazi Germany.

Australian-born Flight Lieutenant Malcolm Kendall-Smith could face an unlimited jail sentence for disobeying an order to go to Iraq last year and four orders to prepare for his deployment, in the first British case of its kind.

"As early as 2004 I regarded the United States to be on a par with Nazi Germany as regards its activities in the Gulf," he told the court.

Prosecutor David Perry asked: "Are you saying the U.S. is the moral equivalent of the Third Reich?" to which Kendall-Smith replied "That's correct."

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=domesticNews&storyid=2006-04-12T112149Z_01_ARM240477_RTRUKOC_0_US-iraq-americans-nazis.xml

[SoftUnderbelly]

1. he has a point

about the legality/morality of the war, but his argument is destroyed by ridiculous comparisons to nazi germany. comparing american foreign policy to the nazis doesnt help the anti-war cause and only serves to trivialise what the nazis did.

[DoYouEverWonder]

3. I think you should call a spade, a spade

Ignore the facts at your own peril. That's what the Germans did and millions of people died as a result. Bush has already killed 100,000's but if he goes nuclear against Iran, he will soon trump Hitler.

[saigon68]

41. 2000

[Oversea Visitor]

5. Haha

What other examples can he show
World only got one so far......
Hilter and Nazi Germany :rofl: always use as examples

[Crayson]

8. Stalin

Stalin wasn't much better in what he did to all those regions in easter europe, the middle east or east asia that came under Soviet rule but didn't really want to be soviets.
Many people disappeared and many guerilla wars were fought against countries with x-stan names and still go on.

[Oversea Visitor]

22. Dont have the class that Hilter does

Want to use examples use da best :rofl:

Hilter beat Stalin flat.....

Hilter will always be remember as how successful one can be playing with simple human emotion of hate and envy.

After all who created ANTI JEWISH fashion.
There no denying this simple basic facts
IT WAS HILTER

Not Muslims

[darkmaestro019]

6. Can you clarify what you find ridiculous about it? (nt)

[Media_Lies_Daily]

7. It took Hilter seven years to get full ramped up,....

...Herr Busch has only used five years to date. But during that time, we've illegally invaded and occupied two sovereign nations, and set up concentration camps for the housing and torture of prisoners. If we use nukes in an attack on Iran, how many Iranians will die during and after such an attack? Millions, perhaps?

And no, comparing Herr Busch to Hitler does NOT minimize what the Nazis did from 1934-1945.

[Crayson]

9. Bush hasn't really done much

Don't forget that Hitler started from virtually zero 10 years after WW I.
He had to build up the whole infrastructure and army, roads, communications, etc...

So Mr. Bush isn't quite THAT fast... ;-))
The US are a well lubed economy with infrastructure already.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

12. Germany already had an infrastructure including an army,....

...roads, communications, etc. All Hitler did was to modernize those components...so no, he didn't start from "virtually zero".

The U. S. WAS a "well lubed economy" until the NeoCons began destroying the economy very soon after they took control of the country in December 2000. Look around you...do we even remotely resemble the economy pre-NeoCon Junta?

[SoftUnderbelly]

10. well...

many countries have illegally invaded other countries, many countries have used concentration camps (including us british, except we did it before hitler) and since nukes haven't been used against iran it isn't really fair to use that in an argument (i also don't believe for a minute that he will use nukes on iran)

bush is a bad president, one of the worst to be honest, but that doesn't make him hitler. every man and his dog uses hitler comparisons at some point and i find it really grating. you continue to do so if you wish, but i am just letting you know that i and many other people think 'argument lost' whenever someone brings up the nazis. its not big, its not clever and it isn't going to win you any support for your cause.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

15. You "and many others" are becoming a distinct minority on this....

...subject. I was warning people about the NeoCons long before they took power in the U. S., and I was one of the very few to raise the alarm at that time. Today, if I compare the history of Nazi Germany to that of the current-day NeoCon Junta, very few people are responding with your particular point of view.

You, and people who think like you, have lost that argument about the NeoCon Junta and insist on clinging to outmoded thinking. Good luck.

[sweetheart]

18. Other parallels with iran

The presumption of "win any support for your cause" is that one writes
to convince someone else. I'm writing rather how facts correlate, and
how some very strong similarities exist.

The nonaggression pact with russia is very similar to how things
have worked with iran. Hitler never really liked russia and always
planned to attack, much as bush with iran, but did not open that
front until he felt he was ready. If bush attacks iran, then every
single image with hitler will fit like a glove, or bush can be
stalin and iran's president can be hitler, but one way or another,
the two men rise together. The lesson of hitler, combined with the
maxim that all war is civil war, is that a leader will declare
war to usurp power, in an alliance with the enemy, both leadershps
conspire against their poeple to strip them of rights, murder them
and each criminal can blame a foreign enemy.

Knowing the history of hitler, and hanging out with people who've lived
through world war 2 in a way more painful than america did, the
analogy is not used by a british person lightly. The racism is there,
the eugenic master race stuff bubbles just below the surface of
US militarism culture.. and yes, the british did it before the US,
and someone else will do it after. Every generation has its own
constitution to write. Hitler, stalin and FDR wrote a constitution
between them for teh world... and it was a socialist constitution
where people were diminished next to the master states. And this
constitution has just been shredded. The master states no longer have
the moral power to control humanity, and bush's seeking a new global
consensus on reducing humainty worldwide... and for this he needs
a strife-driving world war, that those civil war filth in his
cabinet have every intent of enslaving and killing millions... and
what we have only seen are the enslaving of millions and the killing
of thousands so far.... how much murder before we arrest a murderer?

[robbibaba]

21. We have been using nuclear weapons

Depleted Uranium is turning Iraq into one big death camp. And Afghanistan.
The Bush team has stolen so many pages from Hitler's playbook that their only real cover at this point is this whole "argument lost" conditioning.

[TheWraith]

30. Depleted uranium isn't a nuclear weapon. NT.

[Catrina]

28. Don't worry about support, that was a worry two, even one year ago

but no longer ~ his VP is in the teens as far as support goes and viewed as the one who is really in charge. Bush who was supposed to the 'likeable one' is now in the low 30s. That was before we discovered he may be the leaker in chief. I suspect his poll numbers are down in the 20s, certainly from the people I talk to.

It's hard to find anyone, except for the hardcore radical rightwing, who will admit without shame, that they actually voted for him.

The only reason he hasn't yet surpassed Hitler is because we still have some checks and balances in this country, which he and his cohorts have tried to eliminate and nearly succeeded.

If you think he won't nuke Iran, you're mistaken. His neocon friends have been itching to do it for a very long time and you haven't been paying attention Cheney is pushing hard to do it, and Bush, as he did on the eve of the slaughter in Iraq, will no doubt be pumped up when he finally gets to order the attacks. It makes him feel like a man to wage wars on innocent people.

[Atman]

11. Nothing trivialized what the Nazis did.

You cannot trivialize what the Nazis did. However, you trivialize what Bush has done by demanding that we never, ever compare his crimes to that period in world history with so many incontrovertible parallels.

If the jack-boot fits, wear it.

[SoftUnderbelly]

13. hmm

every government can be compared to the nazis to some degree. whats the point? it doesn't achieve anything and sounds ridiculous. i understand you have a different opinion to me, but you must also understand that "OMG he's a Nazi!" makes you sound hysterical and doesn't lend any credibility to what are very serious issues.

[Atman]

14. Which is why I didn't say "OMG! He's a Nazi!"

Whack those straw men!

[SoftUnderbelly]

17. well spotted

i was using hyperbole, i do apologise.

i have already made my point. you don't have to agree with it (im not a nazi afterall ;) ) but i have no intention of continuing to reiterate my points, so i will clarify for the final time:
1) bush is not a nazi (in fact i don't believe there are any nazis left - i think the nazi party was dissolved amidst crisis in 1945? not sure on that though)
2) any government can, and has been, compared to the nazis to some degree. it is intelectually lazy and serves no particular use.
3) constant comparisons of everyone by everyone to the nazis does indeed trivialise what the nazis did in my opinion. you may not agree with that, and thats fine
4) it makes you sound like some dreadful socialist worker party member (i know you wont understand this one, its a purely british thing (which is good for you trust me!))

[Atman]

20. I appreciate the points you've made, BUT...

You're new here (Welcome to DU!), so perhaps you aren't aware that the archives are loaded with threads on this very subject. Obviously, many people take your stand on the issue, while many of us don't.

Bush may not be a Nazi, but his grandfather, Prescott, as you should be aware, was in fact directly tied to the financing of Hitler's war machine. Directly. To the point where his Union Bank & Trust was shut down by the Fed under the "Trading With The Enemy" act.

While you acknowledge your bit of straw man building, you simply constructed a couple more to further defend your first one. (I am not trying to be snarky, although that line may come across as such on the typed page). For instance, it serves no purpose to conflate the point raised into "constant comparison of everyone by everyone to the Nazis." Not only isn't "everyone" comparing "everyone" to the Nazis, the comparisons are hardly "constant."

Further, not only isn't it "intellectually lazy" to compare the Bush regime to the Nazi party, I'd argue that it is "intellectually lazy" to dismiss such comparisons out of hand simply because you feel it "trivializes" the Nazi atrocities. Hitler and the Nazi party did many, many things before they reached the point of delivering trainloads of Jews to the ovens. The trouble I have with arguments such as yours is that they seem to go directly to the ovens part, and discount the rest of the history of the Nazi regime and the direct, demonstrable similarities between Hitler's rise to power and the machinations of BushCo as it cements its stronghold in the United States.

Admitting, acknowledging and applying comparisons to aspects of the Nazi regime does not by default make the argument that Bush is gassing Jews (or Arabs, or anyone else, although Guantanamo Bay could certainly give rise to an entirely separate but equally lively debate), and that is the "intellectually lazy" part. If people are scared, dismissive or insulted that their government is being compared to the Nazi regime, then it is up to the learned to educate and inform, not to simply skulk away and allow the denial to fester.

For every day we refuse to accept what is happening to our own government is another day that government gets one step closer to it's own "final solution" of a fascist United States. Contrary to your assertions, I feel we ignore such comparisons at our own peril.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Catrina]

29. We are hysterical. The killing and torture and maiming of hundreds of

thousands of people tends to make decent people hysterical. But it isn't just what he's done and is planning to do abroad that makes people here a little hysterical, it's what he's doing HERE! To the media, to the Constitition, to US citizens who disagree with him ~ to the economy, to the poor, the elderly and the disabled.

When I say 'he' of course I don't mean just him, he isn't smart enough. But if they get their way, you will be right. Hitler will not be a good comparison. This bunch of lunatics intend to take over the world, to rule the world and if you don't believe that, then read their own personal manifesto ~ they didn't even hide it. Everything they've done so far, is according to plan, and Iran is next on the list, then on to Lebanon, Syria, Africa and they have lost their chance for the moment, in S. America.

Hitler in the early 30s didn't raise too many alarm bells either, except among the very perceptive ~ many of them left Germany ~ we don't want to wait, as many Germans did, until it's too late. Better to err on the side of caution and appear 'hysterical' as I'm sure those Germans who tried to warn their fellow Germans were called, than to ignore all the signs out of fear of what others may think.

[mike923]

34. And we have absolute proof that we are doing this...

Or, wait, maybe we don't.

[Catrina]

35. Yes, we have the tortured bodies, the convictions of lower level

individuals who participated, over 100 detainees dead while in US custody that we know of. Would you like to see some of the latest pictures? We have the WH memos dealing with how to torture without facing legal consequences. Gonzalez is an expert on this subject, along with Rumsfeld, Cheney and Bush.

The Iraq body count is certainly available if you are interested. The maimed (want to see some photos, which even the US doesn't deny, starting with the first child who lost both legs and arms and his entire family when 'Operation Shock and Awe' began.) A day hasn't passed since then withour more dead and maimed Iraqis.

And it was all based on lies which is the worst part.

What is it you failed to notice over the past several years? The evidence is certainly easily found ~

[mike923]

38. I'm not saying there weren't some....

but you made the claim "hundreds of thousands" which implied to me that you were saying it was equal to the 6 million Jews killed by the Nazi's in WWII.

[Catrina]

39. I'm not sure what you mean. I don't believe I even mentioned Nazi

Germany. I base my numbers on several sources, the latest comes from England which estimates that since the Iraq war began, the original estimate of 100,000 is way too low, and they, based on their findings, put the number of dead as high as 650,000 thousand.

Added to that number, which may be somewhere between the two, is the 300,000 Iraqis killed in the first Gulf War, and unrefuted anywhere that I have found, the approximate number of those who have died as a result of the sanctions over 12 years, is 1,000,000. When asked if it was worth those deaths to keep Saddam Hussein contained, Madeleine Albright replied 'yes'. Maybe if some were her relatives, or children, she might have answered differently.


And the death toll will continue, long after this war is over as a result of the use of DU, which is now confirmed and from which our own soldiers are dying.

Over 11,000 Iraq vets from the first war have died, (maybe more since I last checked) and over half of those who were there, approx. 300,000, are on disability or sick from unexplained illnesses. Additionally, spouses of soldiers have also suffered similar sympthoms and many children, both here and in Iraq have been born with deformities. This is also occurring among British vets who were part of that war.

By my estimate, that is getting close to 2,000,000 deaths and that doesn't include the maimed. US figures fluctuate between 18,000 and 45,000, so I'm assuming Iraq numbers are way higher than that.

And what for? We could have spent the money spent on these useless and tragic wars on developing alternative energy sources and reduced this country's dependence on foreign oil.

Not to mention the bad will all this has generated towards this country from all over the world.

The images of torture carried out by US troops, and the knowledge that the WH condoned its use, will leave a scar on this country that may be permanent and has certainly taken away any moral authority this country had.

Add to all this, the detention center at G.Bay, the rendering of prisoners for torture to other countries, secret torture chambers scattered around the globe, and we are not looking very good even in comparison to, let's say, Saddam Hussein.

If this is what Americans want to become, then they need to say so, but with the knowledge of what they are agreeing to. Then the rest of us can find somewhere else to live. I'm hoping all this happened only because the compromised media became an arm of the government and refused to tell the truth to the American people. Otherwise I would have no hope or restoring this democracy.

[mike923]

40. If you use those figures....

then you have to add all the deaths the German army inflicted during combat during the entire WWII to make a far comparison. The deaths the US military inflicted in combat are what they are. The deaths the Nazi death squads inflicted to the Jews in the concentration camp may have been the worst human acts in history, maybe right below Stalin, Pol Pot, and Mao.

I have trouble comparing them in my mind with what is going on at Gitmo and Abu Graib. But, that's because i know history.

[Catrina]

43. I haven't compared them ~ I never said I agreed with the Nazi comparison

although I do fear that if this current band of neocons gain the power they intend to gain, the comparison may be justified.

Read Michael Ledeen's writings and see how far they have come. Although I think Fascism would be a better comparison, since he at least, with no challenge from his fellow neocons, openly states his admiration for Fascism. He just thinks it 'wasn't done right the first time'.

I agree that Hitler's targeting of Jews and ultimate slaughter, was unpredented in modern history ~

But watch how this cabal of neocons have succeeded in de-humanizing all Arabs through propaganda from rightwing media. It backfired on them when the Dubai Ports deal surfaced. But the reaction of their own base demonstrates how successful they were, at least with a significant portion of the population.

Fortunately not everyone has fallen for it, but enough to cause concern. Imo, this is the reason for the lack of outrage over the torture scandal ~ even decent people have been afflicted with the 'they're animals' propaganda (to use Gen. Miller's own words).

Miller told his troops to 'treat the Iraqis like animals' otherwise 'you won't be able to control them'. And then we have the other Gen. who joked about how fun it was 'to shoot them'. Gen. Boynton, ruminated about how God wanted them to do what they were doing in Iraq ~

We are not Nazi Germany, and I have faith in the decency of the American people and also the lessons learned from that period, that we won't become that, but signs are there of something very bad, big signs, which in my opinion, needs to be stopped before it's too late.

[Minnesota Libra]

2. Now if those in power would just listen we might get somewhere. nt

[Media_Lies_Daily]

4. Quite a few Americans are starting to believe that, too.....

...and that is NOT what I ever wanted to believe about the U. S.

Thanks, Fearless Leader. Thanks for all that you've done since seizing power in December 2000.

[LynnTheDem]

19. Top UK judges; Iraq invasion ILLEGAL.

October 19, 2005; British Law lord damns "illegal Iraq war'

One of Britain’s most senior judges last night accused ministers of producing “half-baked” criminal justice reforms and then blaming judges for the failings of the system. Lord Steyn, a law lord, also launched a scathing attack on ministers over the Iraq war, accusing them of “scraping the bottom of the legal barrel” to justify their case.

He said it was a “fairytale” to suggest that the Iraq war did not make London a “more dangerous place”.

Lord Steyn echoed the views of Lord Alexander of Weedon, QC, his predecessor at Justice, with a robust attack on the legality of the Iraq war. Lord Alexander’s view that the war was illegal “reflected the overwhelming view of international lawyers and was undoubtedly correct”.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1832270,00.html

Lt. Kendall-Smith disobeyed an ILLEGAL ORDER. As he should.

[struggle4progress]

23. Iraq protest officer says US behaved 'like Nazis' (UK / RAF)

PETER GRAFF AND SHAN ROSS

AN RAF doctor facing a court-martial for refusing a posting to Iraq said yesterday he believed the United States to be the moral equivalent of Nazi Germany.

Flight Lieutenant Dr Malcolm Kendall-Smith could face an unlimited jail sentence for disobeying an order to go to Iraq last year, and four orders to prepare for his deployment. The case is the first of its kind in Britain over the war in Iraq ...

"As early as 2004 I regarded the United States to be on par with Nazi Germany as regards its activities in the Gulf," Kendall-Smith told the court ...

"This is on the basis that ongoing acts of aggression in Iraq, and systematically applied war crimes, provide a moral equivalent between the US and Nazi Germany" ...

http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=562692006

[Tom Joad]

24. Support the troops who resist!

http://tomjoad.org/WarHeroes.htm
List of US public US refusers.

See the movie
Sir, NO Sir. the story of refusal and rebellion during Vietnam.
http://www.sirnosir.com/

[norml]

25. Nazi is as Nazi does.

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/ww2era.htm#Posters

[JohnyCanuck]

26. As evidence mounts that depleted uranium dust from expended munitions

causes DNA mutations and genetic damage leading to cancers, I don't think the RAF doctor is out of line at all.

The use of depleted uranium in munitions and weaponry is likely to come under intense scrutiny now that new research that found that uranium can bind to human DNA. The finding will likely have far-reaching implications for returned soldiers, civilians living in what were once war-zones and people who might live near uranium mines or processing facilities.

Uranium - when manifested as a radioactive metal - has profound and debilitating effects on human DNA. These radioactive effects have been well understood for decades, but there has been considerable debate and little agreement concerning the possible health risks associated with low-grade uranium ore (yellowcake) and depleted uranium.

Now however, Northern Arizona University biochemist Diane Stearns has established that when cells are exposed to uranium, the uranium binds to DNA and the cells acquire mutations, triggering a whole slew of protein replication errors, some of which can lead to various cancers. Stearns' research, published in the journals Mutagenesis and Molecular Carcinogenesis, confirms what many have suspected for some time - that uranium can damage DNA as a heavy metal, independently of its radioactive properties. "Essentially, if you get a heavy metal stuck on DNA, you can get a mutation," Stearns explained. While other heavy metals are known to bind to DNA, Stearns and her team were the first to identify this characteristic with uranium.

http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/20060307010324data_trunc_sys.shtml

I would now like to present some epidemiologic data from the Basra governate in the south of Iraq. In February 1991, more than 300 tons (possibly much more than 300 tons) of D.U. weapons were used in South of Iraq. After 5-6 year latent periods, increases in childhood cancers and birth defects were documented in the Basra governate. The most recent data indicate a four fold increase in pediatric malignancies and a seven fold increase in congenital malformations compared to 1990, the year preceeding the war.

The Health Effects of DU Weapons in Iraq by Thomas Fasy MD PhD

[gratuitous]

27. Well, that does it

The little fascisti of the 101st Fighting Keyboarders will now swift boat Dr. Kendall-Smith for calling a spade a spade, and identifying the corrupt Bush administration with Nazis. The only question left is when will some well-meaning but gullible folks at DU say that while they don't agree with the likes of Instadope and Little Green Pissballs, they think that equating the Bushistas with the Nazis is going too far?

[loyalsister]

31. Emotional responses to language.....

The word "Nazi" seems to elicit emotional responses and bring up a definition that goes far beyond the comparison most people make when they consider this comparison.
With that in mind, I think it might be useful to consider our circumstances from a more general perspective.
I think that our government has most definitely drifted into the realm of fascism.
Fascism, in the sense of concentrated corporate power is influencing our government in a greater proportion than we are.
It is quite obvious that our foreign policy and planning has been similar to the third-reich.
The domestic manifestations have differed, however.
The Nazis had a militaristic fascism internally.
Ours presents as a sort of theocratic\corporatist fascism with minimal militarism (so far) in the interest of "security."
The corporatist fascism has opened the flood gates of animocity toward an "other" identified by skin color. Hating the "other" serves the purposes of binding people together in the interest of self protection. They will be willing to hate more "others" and go along with more wars.
The specifics may not be the same, but some of the general principles are similar.
Many of the invasions and restictions are justified on "moral grounds."
This is what opens the doors for anyone and everyone as a target.
The American eugenics program sterilized people first based on disability, and secondly on "economic\moral grounds" and third based on race.
Consider our current health care rationing and the political rhetoric that is designed to turn us against each other.
We are in very dangerous territory.

The review quoted below is of a book that is extremely well documented on the American eugenics movement.


"But the tearaway success story was in Germany. Hitler closely followed US eugenic legislation — “I have studied with great interest the laws of several American states concerning prevention of reproduction by people whose progeny would be of no value or be injurious to the racial stock”. After the Nazis seized power in 1933, Hitler modelled his ‘race cleansing’ sterilisation laws on US legislation.

US eugenicists looked at Nazi Germany with both “parental fascination” and “Nordic admiration”. Communication and scientific exchanges flowed across the Atlantic, as did Rockefeller funds to numerous Kaiser-Wilhelm Institutes which were scientific fronts for Nazi eugenic and anti-Semitic ideology. Eugenical News, the official voice of the American eugenic movement, praised Hitler for his “ideological salvation of humanity”."

http://www.waragainsttheweak.com/offSiteArchive/greenleft.org.au/index.html

[JohnyCanuck]

32. This is what Nazification looks like

From The Nazification of America

The Reichstag Fire Syndrome occurs whenever a democracy is destroyed by creating a law-and-order crisis and offering as a "solution" the abdication of civil liberties and states' rights to a powerful but unaccountable central dictator. The men of wealth who put the tyrant into power are then able to reap obscene war profits.

SNIP

In the 2000 and now again in the midterm 2002 elections, electronic voting has meant that our democratic right to have our votes counted fairly and accurately has been by the Bush junta.

Since we now suffer under the situation where there is no opposition to the criminal Bush regime--most Democrats having effectively become pawns of the Republicans--then none of the state election frauds will be investigated. We can't be sure that key races such as that of Mondale in Minnesota and Carnahan in Missouri were not the result of massive vote fraud. We can be sure that the Florida gubernatorial race was completely fixed.

SNIP

94,000 people -- over half of them African American --were on a "scrub list" in Florida, resulting in their being blocked from voting in the 2000 election. Did Florida rectify this mistake before the 2002 election? Fuhgeddaboudit! Those voters as of 2004 have not yet been reinstated in Florida.

www.new-enlightenment.com/nazification_step4.htm

[ShortnFiery]

33. Tell it like it is! The man's a true British Patriot.

It's easy for the UK to condemn him because THAT country isn't throwing BILLIONS away each week to an illegal and immoral invasion and occupation: Operation US-Iraqi Quagmire. :P

Coming soon ... Bomb Iran? :scared:

[wordpix]

36. US & Britain are sending soldiers, docs, others to Iraq where there's no

security. I believe even the UN hasn't re-established a HQ there after the bombing of its HQ early in the war. It's total chaos and anyone going there will find himself in a life-threatening situation, whether he's a soldier or not.

[sg_]

37. Not sure about the Nazi thing...

but I know for sure, that if I joined the British Army; I wouldn't want to be risking my life for the sake of American foreign policy.

[tblue37]

42. The prosecution of soldiers who refuse to be a part

of the brutality of our invasion of Iraq and our attacks on innocent Iraqis simply makes a joke of the whole idea that a soldier can refuse a lawful order. They would be prosecuted in a war crimes trial for participating, but they are prosecuted now for refusing to participate.