UK Independent: The joke's on Bush as Chavez strikes it even luckier

[Robbien]

Estimated oil reserves have just overtaken those of Saudi Arabia
By Christopher Walker
Published: 16 April 2006

There is nowhere on this earth quite like Caracas. Certainly the business traveller has no shortage of time to admire the physical beauty of its setting - two-hour traffic jams characterise this oil-boom city, where petrol costs a mere tuppence a litre. We'd better get used to it. For Venezuela has just overtaken Saudi Arabia in its estimated oil reserves to become number one in the world. Venezuela is here to stay.

When the reports of the country's latest good fortune came through to New York, a banker turned to me and said: "Surely by now George Bush must realise God is not on his side." Even under the old estimates, Venezuela already had its place as a major oil producer guaranteed for the next 80 years. Now it would appear to stretch into infinity. Together with the Middle East, Caracas will be the major force in world energy markets.

In Venezuela itself, high oil prices are having dramatic effects. The Dallas-like skyline is testament to an economy that grew by an astonishing 18 per cent in 2004 and nearly 10 per cent last year. Oil now accounts for well over 80 per cent of exports and more than 50 per cent of government revenues.

. . .

At home, Chavez is fostering his "21st-century socialism", an interesting blend of state control and capitalism, which sees the state establishing its own companies to outdo the private sector. This is combined with strict controls on prices, bank lending and foreign exchange. Chavez has delivered tangible benefits to the many millions of peasants who make up the bulk of Venezuela's population. Food handouts and free medicine are the order of the day, ensuring that Chavez's weekly TV show, Hello, Mr President, has mass appeal. It lasted six hours the Sunday I was there.

http://news.independent.co.uk/business/comment/article357889.ece

[acmavm]

1. Somehow this is just so just and fair. But they'd better watch out, this

is a regime who will bomb a country back to the Middle Ages over oil.

[Robbien]

6. The Bush Regime will not bomb Chavez, covert activities are

its weapon of choice. Very little Iraqi oil ever reached US soil so it was safe to drop bombs there. Unlike Iraq, Venezuela supplies 12-20% of US oil imports. No bombs, gotta keep that black gold flowing.

[saigon68]

19. Negroponte will try to kill Chavez soon

[primavera]

23. If he doesn't get distracted by any nuns to rape n/t

[saigon68]

133. I don't think he personally RAPES THEM

I do think he loves self abuse when reading stories about how they were killed

And their corpses striped and repeatedly sodomized.

[Judi Lynn]

27. You can bet there's something in the works. I hope Chavez has learned

tons from their thwarted kidnapping in April 2002. I hope what he learned while their prisoner advises every action he takes.

[savemefromdumbya]

2. Things aren't going Bush's way are they?

[cassiepriam]

3. Oh Oh, something tells me Bush is gonna look for WMD in Venezuela nt

[xchrom]

4. makes me grin from ear to ear.

i think of the pain this causes bush -- and i giggle.

[muntrv]

5. Hardly a communist dictator!!

Chomp on that, Bushies!!

[marmar]

7. Cosmic karma, baby...

And it's coming back on W.

[shanti]

126. oh man....

that was my FIRST thought, IT'S KARMA.

[Poppyseedman]

8. I read a interesting piece on Chavez in National Geography

The land reform program is way behind and the peasants are losing patience waiting for their piece. The middle class and upper class absolutely hates Chavez. Also the military for the most part is in his pocket, but he understands he will be in power as long as he takes care of them. If he starts to grab too much power, he might be in trouble with them.

If the bottom ever fell out of the price of oil, he would be in real trouble.

I read the article thinking it would be all glow and praise and was surprised it isn't.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

14. And the poor love him. Now what does THAT say? -nt

[Poppyseedman]

24. Yes it does say the poor love him

I have no idea why you are shouting about it.

I thought that was pretty much a given, so I left it out.

[rodeodance]

21. HE best start minding the store as they say.

[Poppyseedman]

25. That was the crux of the article.

The people love him, the establishment HATE him with a burning passion. Oil is his one leverage to maintain control and in power.

But, the mob can turn quickly, especially in South American countries

Overall, I thought it was a fair and balanced article.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

87. I'm sure it was "fair and balanced."

According to the updated definition, of course.

[Pharaoh]

31. national geographic?

national geography i've never heard of,

is it published by scaiffe?

[Poppyseedman]

37. is it published by scaiffe?

I have no idea. Is it?

[Joe Chi Minh]

146. I get the impression you think the people are a mindless mob,

who don't realise that what Chavez has already given them was beyond their wildest dreams.

Do you think, maybe, politics is not really for you? I've read of sailors and lighthousemen who were very keen knitters and embroiders. Hey, maybe basket-weaving would suit your ablilities?

[depakid]

109. It was a terrible article

The copy was amazingly slanted- I had a difficult time believing it was National Geographic. Actually, not so difficult- the magazine has really taken a turn for the worse. Their article on alternative energy last year was just laughable.

[oscar111]

34. N Geographic is very very RW. Why did u expect a favorable article? nt

zzz

[Poppyseedman]

36. I just started receiving it for my son and was always under the impression

it was left leaning.


Most of the articles seem balanced and fair as compared to most rags today

[oscar111]

42. N Geographic, last i looked, about seven yrs ago, was

very very RW. Beyond any doubt. True, a while back.

[shanti]

127. same as PBS and NPR

they took a right wing slant back then too.

[LanternWaste]

154. I've heard about everything now

National Geographic is "right" leaning? Well, I've heard about everything now.

("Sure it is, pal. Notice how those bad weather patterns they talk about always seem to coming from the west... in other words, the "left"?. And how 'bout the fact that they rarely show left-wings in the avian pictures! And almost every photo montage of archeological digs *always* have at least one or two religious buildings! Damned fundies! Get a clue! National Geo's almost as bad as Rush Limbaugh.")

Sheesh! Sometimes I just gotta throw my hands up in the air and say to myself, "What a most bizarre world..."

[paul_fromatlanta]

35. There is a good reason it wasnt positive

The enemy of your enemy isn't always your friend. Sometimes he is just not your enemy yet.

[ronnie624]

122. The bottom fall out of the price of oil?

Not in our lifetimes friend.

[silverweb]

9. "21st-century socialism"

This is exactly what we need!

"At home, Chavez is fostering his "21st-century socialism", an interesting blend of state control and capitalism, which sees the state establishing its own companies to outdo the private sector. This is combined with strict controls on prices, bank lending and foreign exchange."

Viva Chavez!

:yourock:

[Andromeda]

153. No, that's not what we need.

We need a certain amount of regulation to keep energy, communication and utility companies in line but we don't want the government to have too much control over our lives.

Food and medicine should be tightly controlled with strict safety standards.

There is too much danger of abuse of power when government wields a heavy hand.

[Minnesota Libra]

10. The Axis of evil just became four nt

[Oversea Visitor]

11. Ouch he must be taking lesson

from Singapore Goverments.

Only Goverment that pay dividends to its citizen because they make too much money.
Of course many say it is outright bribery for vote
But fact is the goverment so well run and so rich they can aford to do it.

[Judi Lynn]

12. More power to the people of Venezuela. It's about time they caught a break

It would behoove _Bush to discover the amazing world of DIPLOMACY before leaving office, no matter how much he would rather murder everyone he sees as being in his road.

Communication through diplomacy would allow him to gain insights, and maybe come to a whole new understanding, but he's probably not going to "lower" himself when he could just kill by proxy through his military, and destroy, instead.

[ShockediSay]

13. power to the people of Venezuela?

please don't leave out the people of U.S.

[Judi Lynn]

15. How are the interests of the people of Venezuela at odds with the

interests of the people of the U.S.?

If I'm not mistaken, Democratic Congressmen from Vermont, Connecticut, Massachusetts, New York, Maine, and several more states I can't remember, as well as representatives of some Native American tribes, after begging 5 big American oil companies for more affordable rates for their poor for heating fuel over the winter were blown off completely. They took their problems to the Venezuelan government and received 40% discounts and the oil was delivered.

This brought desperately needed help to many, many struggling poor people in this country.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

18. But, you know, those are BAD Americans.

They tend to vote Democratic. And they're poor, and therefore inferior. Helping inferiors survive makes baby Jesus cry. :sarcasm:

[Robbien]

28. Wow, I interpreted Shocked's post completly differently

Thought she/he was saying that Chavez doesn't just bring hope to Venezuela, but to like-minded people here in the US.

Interesting.

[Robbien]

17. That is the root of the reason BushCo states Chavez is a threat

Chavez is leading the way and showing the people of the world that every country's assets belong to its citizens, not the global elite.

Giving the downtrodden ideas, how dare he?

[shanti]

128. why?

what does one have to do with the other? :shrug:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

16. For a few posters (you know who you are, shitheads), reading this story

must have HURT! :evilgrin:

[Judi Lynn]

26. We await the re-reappearance of the oligarchy champion, good old

wind-and-whatever. An article like this will have him burning up his keyboard.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

29. Check your inbox. -nt

[Judi Lynn]

113. Thanks!

http://www.tercera.cl/showjpg/0,,1_198694331_195,00.jpg

[AllieB]

33. I think that champion is busy enjoying wine to excess

39 bottles, to be exact. ;-)

[Judi Lynn]

114. I think you may be right! How lucky can we get?

Oligarchy spokesman

[ronnie624]

123. LOL! n/t

[Pastiche423]

20. Love it! Love it! Love it!

[The Backlash Cometh]

22. We had it, and we let it go.

A healthy balance between socialism and capitalism, and then the stupid ass Republicans got greedy...

[oscar111]

30. Buy CITGO... and three Q' s for you experts on latin america

ONE.. is this article about some new find, or the recently planned new way to calculate reserves using fixed oil price of sixty, and using heavy crude?

TWO.. i notice free medicines are mentioned.. a contrast to the medicare pill plans that still cost us

THREE.. i see price controls are mentioned.. i have heard many claim such never work, that black markets are the result.. i like price controls.. any comments you have , as to the idea that p. controls can work, and have worked, in some examples?

thank you

[paul_fromatlanta]

32. And yet every Venezuelan I know is trying to get their family out

before its too late. Money only buys you so much if you are not free to speak or dissent.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

38. Right. Sounds like a dreadful place to live....

...Can you imagine using a country's wealth to take care of those less fortunate? How terrible! What a scandal!

They should be following the highly successful example of our fine Fearless Leader and taxing the bottom 99% while giving major tax-breaks to the top 1%!! Just look at how well our economy is doing!

And why aren't they going half-way around the world to invade a much weaker country like us??

:sarcasm:

[paul_fromatlanta]

40. The signs are of power consolidation not freedom and equality.

But we'll see. Maybe you are right. My point was that I know several Venezuelan families and they all want their parents out of the country.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

47. Is that because of what they're hearing/seeing from the U. S. MSM?

[paul_fromatlanta]

53. There all technical people so I imagin they use a variety of internet

sources too.

[Erika]

48. Power consolidation?

Like W has done for the corporate globalists at the costs of slashing programs for our needy?

Just the opposite of Chavez.

[paul_fromatlanta]

50. Are you arguing that because Bush is bad that Chavez cannot also be bad?

Thats what it sounds like.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

59. Sounds like you've....

...decided to believe what the NeoCon Junta is telling you.

That's what your comments are telling me so far.

[paul_fromatlanta]

63. You know the Soviets were repressive. So is Castro. So was Saddam

and so are the Chinese. Just because something is in line with what the government says doesn't make it false.

[Erika]

66. So is W with his redistribution of the wealth from the working

class to the rich. And the Pravda media he has set up.

[paul_fromatlanta]

70. We appear to be at an impasse so i'll leave you with the last word

whatever you want to say next. The topic is Venezuela and each response seems to be to ignore that issue and talk about Bush. Thats ok but it doesn't make for much of a conversation about Venezuela.

[AllieB]

72. I don't think that's what MLD is arguing, Paul

Everyone knows that those dictators were bad. There are many dictators that were far worse than Saddam, yet we chose to attack Iraq.

Chavez was legally elected twice. I suggest you do some research that is NOT from the mainstream media and not rely on heresay. I have Venezuelan neighbors, and they're not originally from the upper class or educated class, so they have a good opinion of Chavez. The ruling class in Venezuela hates him.

[paul_fromatlanta]

80. Perhaps I did misunderstand. My problem is people who seem to be looking

to Chavez while freedoms are decreasing. I have the same problem with those who point to the Patriot act as progress.

[roody]

116. I do not know that freedom is decreasing in Venezuela.

I do plan to take a trip there soon and have a look around.

[davekriss]

145. The freedom you cherish and lament seeing decline...

...is the freedom of the master to exploit the slave. Popular participation in representative democracy can yield constraint on commerce and a narrowing of the value appropriated by a small owning class. Whenever that happens, in any country, the masters, and their favored managers and magistrates, squeal like the, um, rapacious and greedy animals they are. Certainly there are groups in Venezuela that dislike the redistributionist and populist programs of Hugo Chavez. And certainly the members of the old priviledged classes that you know and say want out of the country dislike Chavez. That does not make what he is doing wrong. His actions might be socially just and promote social equality. Time will tell.

I have to say, the dictorial "Enabling Act" in 2000, which allowed Chavez to rule by decree for a year, was as anti-democratic as any Bushian wet dream. Though Chavez used his temporary power for good use, leap-frogging over the reactionary forces of the privileged classes, this is not something I condone (it is inauthentic rule, illegitimate). While I admire and applaud the ends, I am nervous about the means. I would not want an American ruler to attempt the same, as the means are easily exploited to negative ends by any future tyrant or "unitary executive".

So I watch the Venezuelan experiment, its extrication from neo-liberal arrangements that benefit the US owning classes, with interest and concern, but so far I delight in the ends achieved. Chavez, however, knows to be wary, as the following sums up USG foreign policy since WWII:

The US has about 50% of the world’s wealth but only 6.3% of its population. In this situation we cannot fail to be the object of envy and resentment. Our real task in the coming period is to devise a pattern of relationships which will permit us to maintain this position of disparity without positive detriment to our national security. To do so, we will have to dispense with all sentimentality and day-dreaming, and our attention will have to be concentrated everywhere on our immediate national objectives.

We need not deceive ourselves that we can afford the luxury of altruism and world benefaction. We should cease talks about such vague and unreal objectives as human rights and raising of living standards and democratization. The day is not far off when we are going to have to deal in straight power concepts. The less we are then hampered by idealistic slogans, the better.

-- George Kennan, PPS 23, 1948

On edit: I should add, the desire of the USG to "maintain this position of disparity" is not done for the average citizen, but for the top 10%, who control more wealth than the bottom 90% of our citizenry combined. And, in reality, it is done for the top 1%, who control 70% of that and choose most of our political candidates for us before any come to a democratic vote. The rest of us, in Bushworld, are just so many "useless eaters" and "cannon fodder".

[pokercat999]

137. Kinda makes my life's experience that ALL governments

are inherently bad is true. I was hoping that was a misconception on my part and a result of my fear and loathing of authority in general. Oh well, being right isn't always comforting.

[Erika]

61. I am arguing that we have our own problems with this W

regime.

[paul_fromatlanta]

68. I hope you are not expecting me to disagree with that. But I don't look a

what is rapidly becoming a dictatorship masquerading as socialism as the example I want to follow out of our problems nor do I want to be especially friendly with a government like that.

[Terran1212]

91. Venezuela has more democracy than the United States

Archive and quote me on it later; it's true.

[davekriss]

143. Of course

O, wait, you weren't talking about the US of A...

[Robbien]

39. Since anti-Chavez campaigns runs 24/7 on all media in Venezuela

where are these people you know living? In a cave? If you think the US media is anti-Chavez, the media in Venezuela is a hundred times dirtier.

Everywhere in the effluent areas of the big cities, you cannot swing a dead cat without hitting someone who is bad mouthing Chavez.

[oscar111]

44. good joke.. "effluent" for affluent..

i have not seen that anywhere else. good joke.

[Robbien]

51. Crap, I should change that

Yes, these days many of the affluent are effluent and it kind of sticks in my mind that way. My subconscious flowed through my keyboard.

[oscar111]

56. Leave it! it makes a very good wry joke

leave it, i vote.

Similar to the joke, "the French Noability"

[Erika]

41. Freedom to dissent? Ask the Dixie Chicks and Kerry's buds

Only we're stubborn enough and brave enough to stay here and get rid of our own fascist regime on our own.

[paul_fromatlanta]

43. Boycotts are a completely different level of oppression than what is happe

down there.

[Erika]

46. The swift boating of Kerry's military buds -Pravda W style

had nothing to do with boycotts, did they? Rush, Faux News, and the likes of Coulter has become this regimes mouthpieces. Pravda, Bush style.

[paul_fromatlanta]

49. Again though we aren't talking repressive violence of dissenters

Like say the 1968 democratic convention or today in Venezuela.

[Erika]

52. Losing your income and being blacklisted is not oppression?

As well as death threats received?

[paul_fromatlanta]

55. The death threats are serious - I don't mean to minimize that.

Boycotts are legal though. So are dishonest press reports to a certain extent. And both are a problem but what's happening in Venezuela in on an entirely other level.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

92. IMHO, you don't know what you're talking about in regards to....

...what's happening in the U. S., and it's been going on since the day the NeoCon Junta took power in December 2000. Repression and intimidation can take many forms, especially if you control the press, the judiciary, the legislative, the executive, the military, and the local/state police departments as did the NeoCon Junta in December 2000. They consolidated their gains following the attacks of 911 by the expedited passage of the Patriot Act.

Every day the NeoCons are taking away something else, or they're attempting to do so.

Are you personally better off than you were in December 2000? Do you have better healthcare? After you've paid all of your bills, do you have more money left over than you did in December 2000? Are you working more hours or less hours than you did in December 2000? How many homeless live in your area now? How about the lines at your local soup kitchen?

I also doubt seriously that you know anything about what's going on in Venezuela other than what you've heard from a few disaffected people who obviously don't like what's happening.

[paul_fromatlanta]

98. You think neocon control the press?

The main stream press has a lot of problems... we could 100 pages on that but neocon control is not one of those problems.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

102. Oh, my. Your condition is much worse that I thought. Try this....

...look up all of the MSM and find out who owns them.

Get back to me when you're done.

[paul_fromatlanta]

152. Even if the media were conservative owned why do you think its neocon?

What about all the Paleocons?

[AllieB]

75. Can you please provide a link for this assertion: repressive violence of

dissenters?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

81. "Some people say"

You know, fair and balanced.

[AllieB]

96. I just don't trust heresay

For everyone of his enginner colleagues who fear for their relatives, I'll raise him my neighbors who are thinking of returning to Venezuela. But as I mentioned, my neighbors aren't originally from the ruling junta.

[paul_fromatlanta]

90. more than 500 detentions and number of reports of ill-treatment and tortur

http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engamr530052004

Even Cindy Sheehan says she talked to Chavez about himan rights violations.

[AllieB]

97. Just like Gitmo and Abu-Ghraib

I'll check out your link.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

100. Who do you believe is behind the so-called "street....

...demonstrations" in Venezuela? As far as the number of people being detained in Venezuelan jails, this would not be the first time that NeoCon propaganda has been picked up by legitimate organizations as being factual.

Who stands to gain from an overthrow of Chevez's legally elected government?

I recall reading several articles stating that U. S. intelligence and military operatives were behind some of the earlier attempts to depose Chavez.

Why do you think the NeoCon Junta would be interested in controlling the government of Venezuela?

[ronnie624]

130. I have read that AI report a number of times.

It has been produced here regularly by other critics of Hugo Chavez and, like you, they never provide any excerpts showing criticism of President Chavez directly for human rights violations. Similar reports exist for practically every country on earth. Using it to malign Chavez is dishonest as he does not control everything in Venezuela.

[davekriss]

147. 1450 vs 64

There are 1,450 articles posted at Amnesty International concerning issues regarding the U.S.A. There are just 64 articles on Venezuela.

OK, the US has a population of 290 million while Venezuela has only 25 million, so perhaps if we extrapolated the Venezuelan population to like-size, the difference could be explained. So lets see, 290/25 is roughly 12. So we have 64 x 12 articles, or 768. An extrapolated Venezuela has, at best, approximately half the rate of issues of interest to Amnesty International.

In the 2005 Regional Overview for the Americas, U.S. human rights abuses dominate. The only mention of Venezuela concerns increasing border violence with Columbian paramilitary (funny, during this period we doubled our military presence in Columbia), and this:

"Political polarization and instability continued to affect Venezuela for much of the year. Levels of violence and protests diminished briefly after a referendum failed to unseat President Hugo Chávez" (source: http://web.amnesty.org/report2005/2am-index-eng ).

So it seems to me that referring to Amnesty International in regard to conditions in Venezuela is a bit of a red herring.

Of the 1,450 articles of interest concerning the US, most concern the arbitrary use of the ultimate card in state terror, the death penalty, and of course the crimes against humanity routinely exercised in the Bushworld "war on terror" (Hey, when it was not mideastern terrorists, it was narco-terrorists from South and Central America, a term coined by GHWB; and when it was not narco-terrorists, then it was the "communist threat" -- the USG will always invent the monster looming on the horizon for the purpose of marshalling public consent for its various imperial adventures.)

However, here's some from an article of a different sort:

USA: Renewed call for suspension as taser-related deaths pass 150 mark
28 March 2006
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR510392006?open&of=ENG-USA

" the most horrendous experience . At one point I just pretended like I was dead because I thought....then they would stop."
- Patricia Skelly, who has a mental illness, was tasered between nine and 15 times while in custody in jail and later in hospital.

Amnesty International today called on law enforcement agencies in the US to suspend the use of electro-shock taser weapons pending an independent, rigorous and impartial inquiry into their use.

The organization published a report,"USA: Amnesty International's continuing concerns about taser use", that details the organisation's research on taser use in the US and expresses serious concern over:

· the significant year-on-year increase in taser related deaths;
· the lack of any independent and rigorous study into the health effects of the electro-shock devices;
· the fact that despite these safety concerns, tasers continue to be used in the US as a routine force tool rather than as weapon of last resort;
· continued reports of excessive use of tasers, in some cases amounting to torture or other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment. (emphasis added)

<snip>

More than 150 people have died in the US after being struck by tasers since June 2001 -- 61 in 2005 alone -- and numbers are continuing to rise. Most who died were subjected to multiple or prolonged shocks. While in most cases deaths have continued to be attributed to factors other than the taser, such as "excited delirium" associated with drug intoxication or violent struggle, in 23 cases coroners have listed the use of the taser as a cause or a contributory factor in death.

While the excesses of state force in the US of A does not mitigate the wrongness of excesses of state force in Venezuela, if your judgment is based on any notion of fair play Chavez, who has done far less than the Bush Regime, is battling his own "war on terror", a "terror" instigated, funded, run by proxy, and probably run directly by the USG. Unlike the USG case for war, for Chavez the threat is very very real.

I'm averse to concentrations of power into any state hands, but less concerned about Chavez than I am of George Bush. You too, Paul, should pay more close attention to actions unfolding at home.

[arikara]

45. Do you know lots of Venezuelans?

Just curious. I thought that most of the media in Venezuela was owned by anti-Chavez types and they were free to air what they wanted.

[paul_fromatlanta]

57. Its not a random sample because they are all either owners of technical

businesses or technical workers. I'm a nerd and most of my friends are nerds. So i dont want to make too broad of a generalization.

[Erika]

58. Can you post any editorials/polls as proof to your assertion? n/t

[paul_fromatlanta]

60. Editorials that my circle of friends want their relatives out? :)

Seriously I do understand your question I'll see what I can find on emigration out of Venezuela.

If my friends are typical then there should be some articles.

[Robbien]

62. All of the private businesses in Venezuela are foreign owned

or funded by the corruption funds of the oil elite. Yes everyone who is dependent on the old system should be thinking of alternative sources of income.

[paul_fromatlanta]

64. there are actually all web site developers or programmers here in the US

Their families are generally poor or middle class and that's part of the problem getting them out.

[Robbien]

74. Well Venezuela is going to be going through big upheavals

Chavez is making his changes fast so it has to make people nervous. If Chavez wasn't worried about external forces, the transitions could be made at a more reasonable pace.

[paul_fromatlanta]

84. I could be wrong but I don't think this President has time or

justification for war with Venezuela. The way I read things he has decided to go to war with Iran and that will take the rest of his Presidency.

[Robbien]

89. We are at war with Venezuela

A covert war.

We dump millions of dollars into a propaganda campaign in Venezuela (About $7 million a year I believe).

We have mercenaries stationed in Venezuela and Columbia. Not just us, the oil elite have their guns for hire there also.

We have a tight control on Venezuela money through the IMF and World Bank (but it appears Chavez is breaking this one down).

The US can keep up this covert war no matter how many countries we bomb in the MiddleEast.

[paul_fromatlanta]

94. If the Opec target price gets raised to $50 a barrel that will remove

most financial pressure on Venezuela since it will nearly triple their oil reserves that can be removed economically. This will in turn raise their Opec quota. Look for their opec reserves to actually surpass Saudi Arabia. The IMF will be powerless in the face of that kind of cash flow.

[Robbien]

99. Remember before Chavez took control, Venezuela got 3% of oil revenue

and they had to pay all oil company costs ( all costs right down to all food and clothing). The oil elite took 97% and paid no costs and no taxes.

Venezuela now owns 60% of oil revenue. Last year Venezuela paid down their total debt by 10%, even while setting up massive social programs. Yes, the price of oil is going to big for Venezuela---if Chavez can keep breathing.

[Erika]

101. You mean Chavez cares about its citizens unlike W

And for that, he is considered a threat.

[roody]

118. The Bolivarian revolution is bigger than Chavez.

The poor and indigenous have tasted democracy and they will not go back.

[CottonBear]

112. I have some Central-South American news source links for you.

Read and learn and never depend upon the US corporate media for all of your news.
Peace. CB
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/
http://narcosphere.narconews.com/

[paul_fromatlanta]

115. Thank you - i'm mainly getting easter ready at this point but I'll bookmar

bookmark and investigate tomrrow or maybe late tonight, Thank you for the effort.

[CottonBear]

139. You're welcome. It is good to read news from other viewpoints. n/t

[davekriss]

150. Steve Kangas described the kind of war underway very well...

It's an old post by Steve Kangas made in the days when the www was still the wild-wild-west. Unfortunately Mr. Kangas was found dead in the nineties with two gunshots to the back of his head in the washrooms off the Scaife offices. Ruled a suicide of course.

CIA operations follow the same recurring script. First, American business interests abroad are threatened by a popular or democratically elected leader. The people support their leader because he intends to conduct land reform, strengthen unions, redistribute wealth, nationalize foreign-owned industry, and regulate business to protect workers, consumers and the environment. So, on behalf of American business, and often with their help, the CIA mobilizes the opposition. First it identifies right-wing groups within the country (usually the military), and offers them a deal: "We'll put you in power if you maintain a favorable business climate for us." The Agency then hires, trains and works with them to overthrow the existing government (usually a democracy). It uses every trick in the book: propaganda, stuffed ballot boxes, purchased elections, extortion, blackmail, sexual intrigue, false stories about opponents in the local media, infiltration and disruption of opposing political parties, kidnapping, beating, torture, intimidation, economic sabotage, death squads and even assassination. These efforts culminate in a military coup, which installs a right-wing dictator. The CIA trains the dictator’s security apparatus to crack down on the traditional enemies of big business, using interrogation, torture and murder. The victims are said to be "communists," but almost always they are just peasants, liberals, moderates, labor union leaders, political opponents and advocates of free speech and democracy. Widespread human rights abuses follow.

This scenario has been repeated so many times that the CIA actually teaches it in a special school, the notorious "School of the Americas." (It opened in Panama but later moved to Fort Benning, Georgia.) Critics have nicknamed it the "School of the Dictators" and "School of the Assassins." Here, the CIA trains Latin American military officers how to conduct coups, including the use of interrogation, torture and murder.

The Association for Responsible Dissent estimates that by 1987, 6 million people had died as a result of CIA covert operations. (2) Former State Department official William Blum correctly calls this an "American Holocaust."

The CIA justifies these actions as part of its war against communism. But most coups do not involve a communist threat. Unlucky nations are targeted for a wide variety of reasons: not only threats to American business interests abroad, but also liberal or even moderate social reforms, political instability, the unwillingness of a leader to carry out Washington’s dictates, and declarations of neutrality in the Cold War. Indeed, nothing has infuriated CIA Directors quite like a nation’s desire to stay out of the Cold War.

The ironic thing about all this intervention is that it frequently fails to achieve American objectives. Often the newly installed dictator grows comfortable with the security apparatus the CIA has built for him. He becomes an expert at running a police state. And because the dictator knows he cannot be overthrown, he becomes independent and defiant of Washington's will. The CIA then finds it cannot overthrow him, because the police and military are under the dictator's control, afraid to cooperate with American spies for fear of torture and execution. The only two options for the U.S at this point are impotence or war. Examples of this "boomerang effect" include the Shah of Iran, General Noriega and Saddam Hussein. The boomerang effect also explains why the CIA has proven highly successful at overthrowing democracies, but a wretched failure at overthrowing dictatorships.

Available here: http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/CIAtimeline.html We miss Steve!

[NorthernSun]

65. Before the shock & Awe?

Maybe they want out before Rummy's next 'shock & awe' campaign hits.

[Erika]

71. Would Rummy & W do that to a country that never attacked us

or was in anyway a threat? Just for oil and his buds?

We know the answer.

[paul_fromatlanta]

73. I'm pretty sure Iran is next and there wont be time for Venezuela.

But that makes the next Presidential election VERY important.
Not to mention there is no justification even under the so called Bush doctrine for attacks on Venezuela - repressing your people is not "good enough.:

[Erika]

82. What happened to North Korea as a danger?

W is way too fickle.

[paul_fromatlanta]

85. Funny about that. I think the simple answer is he is running out of time

and Cheney has no chance of being elected to continue the administration.

[Erika]

86. But Bushbots say Iraq's WMD's are in Syria

Shouldn't we go there first because of national security concerns?

[paul_fromatlanta]

88. That is weird.... its like the twilight zone sometimes.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

77. Someone has been watching too many Cold War era propaganda movies. -nt

[paul_fromatlanta]

95. I lived it....

[Media_Lies_Daily]

103. Yeah? So did I.

[IndianaGreen]

148. and so did I

and when it was all over, the truth hit me like a ton of bricks! We didn't fight the Cold War for freedom and democracy, we fought it to eliminate the competition so that our corporations would be unhindered in their exploitation of the world.

[ronnie624]

129. Nonsense.

Eighty-two percent of Venezuelans think Chávez is doing a good job. That's more than twice the approval rating by Americans of Bush. He roundly defeated an attempt to recall him. So why is Washington lecturing Caracas?

<http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucru/20060406/cm_ucru/panderingtothepoor>

Health and employment projects have sprung up; a university has been founded to encourage working-class people into higher education; and Chavez's popularity has soared among the poor.

<http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv_and_radio/story/0,,1528000,00.html>


An audit by international observers supported official election results that gave President Hugo Chávez of Venezuela victory in a referendum to recall him, the secretary general of the Organisation of American States said.
Although observers such as the former US president Jimmy Carter and the OAS secretary general, César Gaviria, endorsed the election council's results for the August 15 vote, they proposed the audit to assuage the opposition's concerns of vote fraud.

<http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1288621,00.html>

Women were the majority to come out demanding the return of Chavez, which reversed the 2002 coup. They have been the majority in the electoral battle units which ensured his victory in the 2004 referendum and regional elections that followed.

Latin America will go up in flames if Chavez is killed.

<http://www.guardian.co.uk/letters/story/0,,1424741,00.html>

It doesn't seem like everyone is trying to get out to me.

[Judi Lynn]

131. That Ted Rall link is wonderful. I've got to post the first 3 paragraphs:

By Ted Rall
Thu Apr 6, 6:22 PM ET

The Danger of Hugo Chávez's Successful Socialism

NEW YORK--When the hated despots of nations like Saudi Arabia and Kazakhstan loot their countries' treasuries, transfer their oil wealth to personal Swiss bank accounts and use the rest to finance (in the House of Saud's case) terrorist extremists, American politicians praise them as trusted friends and allies. But when a democratically elected populist president uses Venezuela's oil profits to lift poor people out of poverty, they accuse him of pandering.

As the United States and Europe continue their shift toward a Darwinomic model where rapacious corporations accrue bigger and bigger profits while workers become poorer and poorer, the socialist economic model espoused by President Hugo Chávez has become wildly popular among Latin Americans tired of watching corrupt right-wing leaders enrich themselves at their expense. Left-of-center governments have recently won power in Argentina, Brazil, Colombia, Ecuador, Paraguay, Peru and Uruguay. Chávez's uncompromising rhetoric matches his politics, but what's really driving the American government and its corporate masters crazy is that he has the cash to back it up.

In their desperate frenzy to destroy Chávez, state-controlled media is resorting to some of the most transparently and hilariously hypocritical talking points ever. In the April 4th New York Times Juan Forero repeated the trope that Chávez's use of oil revenues is unfair--even cheating somehow: "With Venezuela's oil revenues rising 32 percent last year," the paper exclaimed, "Mr. Chávez has been subsidizing samba parades in Brazil, eye surgery for poor Mexicans and even heating fuel for poor families from Maine to the Bronx to Philadelphia. By some estimates, the spending now surpasses the nearly $2 billion Washington allocates to pay for development programs and the drug war in western South America."
(snip/...)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucru/20060406/cm_ucru/panderingtothepoor

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

How refreshing. How candid. Thanks so much.

[ronnie624]

132. It was indeed a pleasant surprise.

I have grown so accustomed to seeing pile after pile of anti-Chavez garbage in the U.S. corporate media, seeing a truthful article on Yahoo! was rather shocking.

[rman]

135. You must know a lot a upper class Venezuelans;

belonging to the minority that is no longer in power.

[davekriss]

142. Know alot of Venezuelan peasants, do ya'? (eom)

[anitar1]

151. Then they better stay away from here. n/t

[oscar111]

54. Peak Oil.. how will it affect the wealth of oil source nations?

hi prices would help them.. but smaller output would reduce the revenues... what will the combined result of these two factors be?

PS biodiesel will not replace oil .. just read that earth cannot grow enough plants to do that.

...

[Robbien]

67. The point of this article is that while reserves of all other nations

are stagnent or drying up, Venezuela has found huge new reserves.

Unless the rest of the world finds alternatives or takes control away from Chavez, Venezuela will be sitting pretty for generations to come.

[lovuian]

69. The big news here is that Saudia Arabia is not going to be

the boss anymore of oil... they have reached peak oil and only can go down hill... Its over...

The new boss is Venuzuela and thats Chavez...and he doesn't like Bush & Co

[Erika]

78. Yes. It is a munumental change in the world order

Is Condi seeing mushroom clouds yet?

[dailykoff]

76. Breaking: CIA issues Al Quesadilla terror warning (n/t)

[Erika]

79. How hilarious. Thanks.

[Fun Doom Mentalist]

149. THAT's THE BEST ONE YET !!!________Al QUESAdilla !

that's probably a Bush "mis speak" or Bushism--
if it isn't it should be

[opihimoimoi]

83. BWAHAHAhahahahahahaha ROTFLMAO BUSH went to the Wrong Country

for oil

[Robbien]

93. Could you imagine the uproar this news has caused?

UK/US elite cursing up a blue streak.

Ha!

[opihimoimoi]

125. However, makes one wonder if its true/confirmed????

But in the mean time......Much gnashing of teeth and/or scratching of heads....leading to How to Get THEIR Hands on some if not ALL OF IT..................HMMMMMmmmmmmmmm..Never mind looking "GOOD"....."Just got get it"

[Robbien]

141. It does all hinge on OPEC changing its target oil price to $50/barrel

Yes it is verified the crude is there but it cannot be processed unless OPEC raises their target price. OPEC set the target range at $22-$28 two years ago and hasn't changed it since then. Two years ago prices were kept in that range.

Canada will also be able to increase their reserves if the target was increased because they too have crude reserves which will qualify as being marketable.

[killbotfactory]

104. Why don't we strike a deal with Venezuela, like we did with SA?

Oh yeah, Saudi Arabia is a monarchy and doesn't exactly promote freedom. Right wingers love those countries.

Venezuela under Chavez is promoting a 21st Century Socialism, and succeeding. Right-wingers hate those countries, and have previously done anything they could to destabalized/overthrown them to protect US profits.

Old habits die hard.

[Robbien]

106. We don't strike deals with Venezuela, we dictate to them

How dare Venezuela think their assets belong to them?

[Zorra]

105. "Surely by now George Bush must realise God is not on his side".

Maybe George doesn't realize it, but the rest of the world, except for a few republicans, does.

Just one more reason that we need to get rid of this fascist regime from hell. Not having God on your side is a real biggee.

We could use a real leader like Chavez, someone with brains, a sense of genuine domestic social responsibility, and someone to slam the hammer down on corporatism.

But no, we have chimpy and the flying monkeys of fascism.

[Erika]

108. Yep, how very sad

Chimp has zero interest in our poor or working class. He knows nothing about them and doesn't care to learn.

[roody]

119. Chavez reads too!

[Up2Late]

107. This is GREAT!

Suck on that "mr. pResident!"

[IndianaGreen]

110. "George Bush must realise God is not on his side."

When the reports of the country's latest good fortune came through to New York, a banker turned to me and said: "Surely by now George Bush must realise God is not on his side."

Bush is the Son of Satan, the Anti-Christ revealed!

I am sure that Freepers are pissed off at the news.

Viva Chavez! Viva Venezuela! Down with Mister Danger!

[Robbien]

111. Welcome to the celebration Indiana, , , by the way

how does one make those shaded boxes for quoted exerpts?

[NYC]

124. To put quotes in shaded boxes:

This is in a shaded box.

Use square brackets where I have used ().

{div class=excerpt)This is in a shaded box.(/div)

[roody]

120. And down with Kinda Sleazy Rice!

[EVDebs]

117. Chavez could make a deal for a set $ price for oil ONLY with a Democratic

administration. Nut case Bush has already tried to off this guy !

[CanuckAmok]

121. If I spoke Spanish I'd emigrate to Venezuela in a heartbeat.

Sounds nearly Utopian.

People talk about the restriction of ideas and dissent. What do you think we have here? It's the same, just more sophisticated. In fact, I think our corporate censorship is far worse than most smaller countries.

[Solon]

134. The thing I find funny...

especially in regards to the "restriction" on dissent is this, not one journalist in Venezuela is in jail due to what they reported, however, in the US, we are number 3 or 4, I forget, behind China and Cuba at least. Another interesting fact, when the legislature of Venezuela passed the "disrespect" law, which also covers libel and slander, Chavez vetoed it because the penalties were too strict. This doesn't sound like the actions of a dictator, even a dictator in the making.

[Judi Lynn]

136. So glad to see your comments. I've read multiple times they've got

NO political prisoners. That just doesn't confirm the posters charges at all.

Anti-Chavez opportunists have used a closing of a community tv station, Catia TV, as a proof of Chavez's alleged plan to control the media. They always have neglected to mention this act was committed by Caracas's mayor, Alfredo Peña, a bitter opposition enemy to Hugo Chavez's administration. Odd ommission.

Opposition Mayor Shuts Down Community TV Station
Humberto Márquez

CARACAS, Jul 16 (IPS) - The Venezuelan government and rights activists charge that the Caracas city hall -- under a mayor who opposes the Hugo Chávez administration -- has violated freedom of expression by ordering the closure of a community television station.

Mayor Alfredo Peña ordered Catia TV, a community broadcaster in the working-class neighbourhoods of western Caracas, to be shut down.
(snip)

"We ask you to explain your reasons for closing the premises of Catia TV and at the same time we remind you that, whatever they are, they could not justify forcing this station off the air,” wrote the organisation's secretary-general Robert Ménard.

Provea, one of Venezuela's leading human rights groups, called the closure a ”denial of the rights to freedom of expression and information consecrated in the constitution,” and demanded that the city government ”immediately restore these legal guarantees.”

The Community Media Association added its voice to the demands and declared, ”Mayor Peña is depriving the working class communities of western Caracas of the right to inform themselves and express themselves independently.”

”The one who has shut down a media outlet is not President Chávez but rather one of his most ferocious opponents,” said the Association.
(snip/...)

http://www.ipsnews.net/interna.asp?idnews=19274

[w4rma]

138. Informative string of posts (nt)

[bvar22]

140. Quick Chavez inventory:

*Healing the Sick

*Feeding the Hungry

*Sheltering the Homeless

*Educating the Ignorant

*Using the profits from the Nation's Commonwealth to benefit the people of the Nation

WOW. Chavez IS a threat!
If this spreads North, America as we know it would cease to exist.

The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[oscar111]

144. NO new oil.Only a new price that will make HEAVY oil marketable.

ON EDIT:
The HEAVY crude has been known about for years. What is new, is that if Chavez can get OPEC to help with a new high price target, then an odd kind of crude... HEAVY crude... becomes marketable... you see, it takes a lot of money to make HEAVY crude into gasoline. So a hi price at the pump is necessary to get HEAVY on the market. If HEAVY can be sold, then yes, Venezula has much more treasure under its soil.

======================================================================================
i am reluctant to post this.

but several replies fell into an error .. "huge new reserves"

At least, this amateur here.. oscar.. seems to think it is an error, from my casual reading.

Correct me if i am wrong. and i hope i am wrong. I hate to dampen the mood here.

NEGATIVE.. Venezula has only changed the way it counts oil.. now includes hard to get HEAVY crude. Saudi and Venezula are still in the same relative order of bigness for LIGHT sweet crude, the main kind today. No new discoveries of oil in Ven. Not really cooking the books, no lies, just a different way to publicly count HEAVY crude, which we all have known about for years in Ven and also all other nations.

I just want to keep the repliers who said "big discovery".. from being blindsided by freepers who will drag up what i just typed above to throw us off balance suddenly in the debate.

I hope this will prepare you for freeper attacks. Forewarned is best, and it is usually best to keep in touch with reality.

POSITIVE.. the article has many other good points in it, all of which look very true.

again, correct me if i am wrong, and some new oil has been discovered. I hope it has been

EDIT.. just read
Robbien's re about thirty upthread.
Seems that the HEAVY crude will be economical to sell, if OPEC pegs a new hi price for oil, which entails members curbing output. Hmmmmm Wouldnt Peak Oil phemomenon raise the price of oil on its own, thus making Ven's HEAVY oil economical to sell with or without OPEC actions?

Comments? Educate this amateur.