Foreign group taking over Indiana Toll Road

[Robbien]

INDIANAPOLIS — In the biggest highway privatization deal in U.S. history, state officials last week signed an agreement to turn the 157-mile Indiana Toll Road over to a foreign consortium that will operate it for a profit for the next 75 years. Under the lease, Spanish-Australian consortium Cintra-Macquarie will pay the state $3.8 billion up front and will be responsible for operating and maintaining the highway. It will get to keep the toll revenue it collects.

Republican Gov. Mitch Daniels said the upfront payment will help pay for other transportation projects and create jobs. Opponents argued it violates the state constitution and have sued. They said the constitution requires that proceeds from the sale of any public works be used to pay off state debt.

. . .

The state hopes to close the deal and transfer the highway to the consortium by June 30.

The lease authorization passed in the Republican-controlled General Assembly by the bare minimum of votes. All but two Democrats opposed it, saying the state should not turn over a major asset to a private, foreign entity, and noting the consortium would reap billions of dollars through toll revenue and rate increases.

http://www.azstarnet.com/news/124820

[Flabbergasted]

1. Planning similar things in Oregon. Same Company.

[depakid]

8. That'll never happen

Oregon isn't Indiana (and thank God for that).

[Flabbergasted]

28. There was an Article in the Oregonian about last summer about an

upcoming deal right here in Oregon. Its likely given our economic situation because they would build the highway!

[depakid]

43. Believe me, people won't stand for it

The Oregonian can cheerlead all they want- but toll roads aren't going to go up in the state, especially if the profits go to foreign countries. Hell, we've never even gotten suckered into self serve gas.

The Oregonian also likes to tout the GPS "pay by the miles driven tax" program that a couple of guys at Oregon State came up with. They pull that one out about every six months or so. It's also going nowhere.

[anitar1]

44. I'm with you. Greedy wolves at the door and rabid Pugs

in the legislature. I see DeFazio is already under attack for his "poor forest" plans. Timber Co's hate him.They want it all.

[rodeodance]

2. "It will get to keep the toll revenue it collects"

[joemurphy]

3. When a State agency screws up, I get due process.

I can challenge their actions in an administrative hearing or vote in a new set of politicians that can run things better. If a foreign lessor controls the toll road, who do I complain to if I don't like how they run things?

[Robbien]

4. Also since the road is no longer public property

what is the status of police patrols and tickets. How is it possible to get a speeding ticket on private property.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

22. Due what? Oh you must be thinking about back in the days when

we lived under a constituion.

[movonne]

5. Between tolls and gas, I don't see much traveling.. say goodbye to

vacations...

[ConcernedCanuk]

6. Selling the USA one piece at a time?

.
.
.

The taxpayers paid for this stuff,

now the state is selling it?

- well, they are just "leasing" it for decades, and the profits go out of the country -

From a 2005 article:

The Trans Texas Corridor. Last December 16th, the State of Texas announced a deal with Cintra, an international group of engineering, financial and consulting firms headquartered in Madrid, to develop the Trans Texas Corridor. Cintra will invest $6 billion to build a toll road between Dallas and San Antonio by 2010, and has agreed to pay the State $1.2 billion for the concession. In return for building the new transportation corridor, Cintra proposes to negotiate a 50-year contract to maintain and operate the new highway as a toll road.

The Chicago Skyway. In January, the City of Chicago announced that it had leased the 7.8-mile Chicago Skyway Toll Bridge System to a Cintra-Macquarie consortium for 99 years. Cintra-Macquarie paid the City of Chicago $1.83 billion for the concession. Cintra-Macquarie will operate the facility and keep the toll revenues. The Chicago Skyway deal has aroused interest in other parts of the country, leading states like New York, Indiana and New Jersey to look more closely at the possible privatization of their toll roads.

http://www.dot.gov/affairs/shanesp030705.htm

So, when more of the majority of these roads are leased out, and some PNACer groups take over the leases, they can just shut down America!

in the meantime

- they get all them taxpayers tolls to line their pockets . .

hmmmm

[ixion]

9. very good point

we paid for it, and they sold it to someone who will now charge us (at a profit) for the luxury of using it. :grr:

[Robbien]

10. Appears that group owns Highway 407 outside Toronto

and that they run it so badly Ontario had to sue them.

http://www.cnw.ca/fr/releases/archive/March2006/31/c1194.html

All of North America is up for sale it seems.

[ConcernedCanuk]

14. Yeah I knew about that, My parents live right beside the 407

.
.
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I thought Ontario was crazy to sell it in the first place

But the government was criticized for making money off the toll road in the beginning, it was a local political issue - and got played badly by our politicians

I don't think we'll be doing that again

hopefully . . .

[Robbien]

20. So much is going on behind the scene

we can never really know how much of all of our public assets have been sold.

Just taking a look through Google at these guys I can see they are picking up all kinds of public utilities, roads, and airports all over the world.

[salin]

46. Thanks for the earlier post with lists of projects... it strikes me

between the eyes .... each case (all in quick succession) involves BILLIONS of dollars up front - given from the company to the municipality/state. From where does the money come? This is different than typical buyouts where part of the deal includes transfer of stocks and partial ownership/control deals within. It strikes me as very, very unusual - unless they are playing a bit of a ponzi scheme in the sense of - 2 pay billion for a 'long term lease' here - then immediately take a huge loan out with the recently secured "long-lease" to get the money to pay another several billion for the next 'long term lease' there.... and so on. Can't imagine that leaves much for investment into upkeep of the assets as money would be getting pumped out immediately for the next acquisition.

[Canuckistanian]

52. I've had dealings with this bunch before....

I used the 407 one day and this company double-charged me. When I refused to pay the extra, they had a credit collection agency on me within a few days. It took a few emails back and forth, but I won and they gave me an extra $20 credit.

When that credit runs out, I'll never use that highway again.

[madrchsod]

16. trans texas corridor 275 miles at

over 21 million dollars a mile to build.i wonder what the projected toll costs are over the life of the contract.

[ConcernedCanuk]

24. toll roads always pay for themselves, then income for the state/province

.
.
.

We built the Burlington Skyway which cuts off the corner at the west end of Lake Ontario making it a much shorter route from Hamilton to Toronto, ergo to Niagara Falls and the USA, a major shipping route.

It paid for itself 2x or more, then public pressure made them remove the toll booths, as it had been "sold" to the public as a toll road to pay for the bridge/skyway.

But expansion and upkeep now puts the burden on the average taxpayer, not just the people who use the road.

And one of the rationales for our excessive tax on gasoline is for road upkeep/construction. My chainsaw and farm vehicle never see the "road" - yet I am paying "road tax" for that gasoline

Despite the minor inconvenience, I think toll roads are a good idea

Well

Unless you sell them to private corporations

[B3Nut]

51. The Skyway is privatized now??

Good grief! Yet the Skyway's toll plaza takes IPass, I just breezed on through last month coming back from Michigan. I guess I won't be using the Skyway anymore. I hope they don't sell out the Illinois tollway from Rockford to Chicago, I travel that route quite a bit (obviously, since I'm a Wisconsinite but have an IPass, you pay double at the plazas if you pay the tolls in cash, what a ripoff!)

Todd in Beerbratistan

[ConcernedCanuk]

62. No - they REMOVED the toll booths, it is no longer a toll bridge

.
.
.

Toll roads have never been a popular concept up here, and by "selling" it to the public, I meant that the politicians had to "sell" the idea to put toll booths in there in the first place - but with the condition that they would only be there until the bridge "paid" for itself.

It more than paid for itself when the citizens had to remind the government of their promise to remove the toll booths once they had paid for the cost of the bridge.

WE ARE talking about the same Skyway, right in Hamilton, Ontario?

But it is known as the Burlington Skyway as the East end lands in Burlington.

[B3Nut]

63. Nope, Chicago Skyway (n/t)

[shenmue]

7. What the hell is wrong with these people?

Can't they use American companies to create jobs? Have they any fellow feeling for their country at all?

[lovuian]

11. This is getting crazy...

I don't know what this country has turned into...

a haven for foreign countries!!!

its sickening!!!

[niallmac]

12. If a foreign company can see a profit in the tolls why can't we?

Is taking care of the road just too much for Indiana? Does Indiana see plummeting toll revenues
in the future due to peak oil etc? How, aside from the quick bucks up front, do they justify
the sale? Since when are Dem's now the financial watchdogs of the country no offense to fellow Dem's
but weren't Republicans the once astute financial conservatives of yore?

[Robbien]

13. Its what the money can be used for

The sale proceeds can be used for whatever the governor says, in this case the murky "more jobs" ploy.

If they didn't sell it, the money from the tolls can only be used for road repair and debt repayment.

[ConcernedCanuk]

15. "lining pockets" - that's what it'll be used for

.
.
.

I think we all suspect that . .

Just another cash grab for the already rich . .

(sigh)

[brentspeak]

31. Our tax dollars are making crooks and cronies rich

[ConcernedCanuk]

32. has been since day one in the USA - from slaves to illegal immigrants

.
.
.

USA is just a "landing zone" for global domination

Google "Illuminati" and /or Project for the New American Century"

It has nothing to do with making a "free" country - it is about using the land and it's inhabitants as a "base" for global conquest.

It will fail of course, as all other desires for empires have, but millions will die, and millions others will suffer because of their greed.

I'm sad to say that I think I'm correct in my analysis

(sigh)

[niallmac]

29. Now that rings so true to me. Thanks for the reality check. n/t

[marbuc]

17. Kansas privatized portions of I-70

and in my opinion this has worked well. The toll road is well maintained, clean, and the traffic moved smoothly, as compared to Missouri's part of the highway, which always seems to be in disarray.

I do take issue with the length of the contract however. I'm not sure how this type of lease agreement works, but the state in effect is selling off infrastructure for one lump sum payment, while giving up the ability to generate revenue from this road for the next 75 years. I hope they plan to establish an interest bearing trust, so they can capture that additional annual cashflow.

[0007]

18. Hurry hurry hurry to the biggest garage sale in history.

[Marie26]

19. Isn't Texas doing the same thing?

Some sort of Pan-Texas superhighway built by the Carlyle Group? Help me out here.

[Sadie5]

21. Who were the two Dems who voted for this?

I'd sure like to know.

[indypaul]

25. One was

State Senator Glen Howard. He needs educated in the
next primary election, but doubt that will happen.

[joemurphy]

27. Glen Howard is one of the dumbest guys in the legislature. n/t

[salin]

47. wonder what he was promised in return

:shrug:

[Castilleja]

69. Cintra-Zachry is attempting this same thing in Texas

A 1/4 mile wide super toll-road is planned, to be owned by this same company.

[NYC]

23. Something about this rubs me the wrong way.

You have to pay a foreign country to travel on a road in your state that was built with your tax dollars.

Somehow, paying a foreign country to travel in your own area just does not seem right.

[Robbien]

35. Exactly

I use to travel on the Chicago Skyway all the time. Now that it has been sold, it gives me the creeps and I try to avoid it whenever possible.

[NYC]

42. Good for you.

It's always better not to support (especially financially) things with which you disagree.

Similarly, I avoid buying Chinese products. The Chinese made products displace American workers, and they are inferior. However, it wasn't until yesterday that I realized I should tell the shopkeeper why I do not want the product. I did that yesterday in a hardware store, and the man couldn't have cared less. However, if enough of us start saying why we don't want the product we've been shown, there may be some hope. In this case, there was an American product available in a different store. I know that in many cases, it's Chinese or nothing.

I have a "list" of countries in mind when there is no American product. First, Canada. If nothing Canadian, then French, then Italian. I buy from countries that pay a living wage. From now on, I'll make sure I tell people why I buy or do not buy products.

Tell your friends, coworkers, and neighbors why you avoid that road.

:hi:

[Mind_your_head]

26. A country doesn't turn over important internal infrastructure

unless there is something "seriously wrong"....and there is something "seriously wrong" here.

MAYDAY....MAYDAY.....(I don't know 'who' would answer that call for help.....I guess the only ones who can help is "us". Only Americans can fix our own d*mn sorry selves/situation....too bad we waited this long.)

[LiberalFighter]

39. Only thing seriously wrong was that it was operating in the red because...

The toll had not been raised in about 20 years.

Doesn't take a genius to figure out how to operate in the black.

[brentspeak]

30. How can the state sell public property that was purchased

by the taxpayers?

Take this to SCOTUS, if necessary.

[Robbien]

34. They can if our state representatives vote yes on the sale

By giving them our vote, we give them our proxy to manage our public property. They represent our interests.

Or that's that way it is supposed to work.

[Blue_Tires]

33. very shortsighted

who actually thinks this is a good idea??


I don't know how big the undercover payouts were to the pols that are whoring out this idea, but it must be substantial.

[ovidsen]

36. Maybe this is bad. Maybe not. I'm not optimistic.

If you've ever driven on Italy's autostrada, you've driven on a toll road system that's run by a private company, and run quite well, from my experience.

Cintra-Maquarie also built and now runs the Dulles Greenway, between the Dulles airport outside DC and Leesburg, VA., and that's also a very nice highway that replaced a funky stretch of two-lane blacktop with no tax dollars spent.

But this deal smells kinda funny. On the bright side, the Indiana counties that the Toll Road cuts through are geting HUGE payouts. Porter County, Indiana's getting more cash from the lease than it's entire projected expense for county road maintenence for the length of the lease. I read that somewhere; tried to find a link, but couldn't

I did find this column, which basically says that for drivers, this sucks.

Residents of Northern Indiana say plan isn't fair to their communities

By Bill Ruthhart
[e-mail]
January 25, 2006

Truck drivers and commuters who use the Toll Road regularly said they don't want to pay the sharp jump in tolls projected over the next three years as private interests take over the road.
Northern Indiana residents also don't think enough of the $3.85 billion would be used to fund road projects in their communities. (SNIP)

Under the governor's proposal, which still must be approved by the legislature, the consortium would be allowed to raise tolls for cars and trucks that travel the entire stretch to $8 this year from $4.65. Tolls would stay at $8 until 2010.

Rates for most big rigs, meanwhile, would rise gradually from $14.55 to $32 in 2009. After that, tolls for both cars and trucks would be pegged to inflationary indexes.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?Date=20060125&Category=NEWS02&ArtNo=601250463&SectionCat=&Template=printart

Pricey...

[LiberalFighter]

40. If Truckers don't want to pay the increase what will they do???

Get communities pissed off because they will be using the local roads and increasing traffic flow and causing the roads to deteriorate much faster.

[salin]

48. or reroute to go through southern Michigan

on I94, or across on I 70 to I65 to Chicago - and avoid the area all together. Another way to get communities who keep being told that the interstates are good for local economies (they have used this line for 20 years to get a new interstate built in southern Indiana so the argument is fresh in mind).

Mitch is already now polling in the thirties ... new mantra around the state "Ditch Mitch!"

[Zorra]

37. An incredible amount of our infrastructure is being taken over

by foreign entities.

It is never a good thing to give away domestic control of infrastructure.

In fact, it is insane.

Global corporatists are taking over our country and our democracy.

[msgadget]

38. For the next *75 YEARS*

Hey, aren't tolls for maintaining the roads? But the amount collected in Indiana is enough for it to be an attractive acquisition...but not enough for the governor to hold on to a little thing like THEIR ROADWAY. Who the hell put THE ROADWAY on the market?? Were there no protests, no people rallying outside the capital, no national news coverage? Everybody heard about the ports and this is the biggest highway privatization deal in U.S. history.

I heard a woman mention something about her state's roads being taken over by Australia during a C-Span call-in a little while ago but I don't think it was Indiana...

[LiberalFighter]

41. There should had been a cost projection done on the deal

to show how much revenue could had been received with appropriate toll increases and projected traffic in the 75 year period.

[Robbien]

55. When Daley was selling the Chicago Skyway we had to file a FOIA

to try and get the cost projections and competitive bidding amounts.

We are still waiting for the FOIA to be honored meanwhile the road was sold over a year ago.

[LiberalFighter]

64. There should be something other than what the state has out there

[SoCalDem]

45. When toll roads come IN, we are told that after a specified time,

usually not all that long, the road will be paid for, and will belong to the state, and that the tolls we pay in that time are to REPAY the people who built the roads...

and WHY do we need "private companies" to build the roads?? because the funds we USED to have and to get for road building are "going elsewhere".. any guesses where? :sarcasm:

[sweetheart]

49. For progressives, the small america protectionism here is unimpressive

It has nothing to do with the employess or workers rights which one
can presume are paid by the law.

It has to do with the perception that foreign people don't have the
right to own an ameircan asset. Then you should think about that in
reciprocal, when shell and all american companies are forced to sell
off their oil fields all over the world, foreign-owned assets.

In our futile frustration at the neocon civil war, to take it out
by denying egalatarian views on the global nature of property rights,
takes us back to the stone age and makes the party economically stupid.

I hpe the democrats are not gonna be economically stupid... but the
unrealpolitik populism seem bent on this self-destructive course.

[entanglement]

50. I agree with you

Roads belong to the public and they shouldn't be in private hands. Why some people believe an *American corporation* would somehow be better than a *foreign* corporation in this matter beats me.

[brentspeak]

57. That's not what he's saying

He's saying that it's ok for foreign corporations to own and control our public roads.

Neither American corporations nor foreign corporations should own and control our public roads; they are supposed to be owned and run by local, state, and federal government.

[sweetheart]

60. No, speak for yourself

I don't really care who owns what. I care that the rights to
property are not descriminated based on nationality. As far as
"evil corporations" and all that, its another discussion entirely
and i've strongly represented against corporate personhood.

[Julius Civitatus]

53. I agree too. A global economy goes both ways

Let me put it this way: I actually agree that certain countries should not control our infrastructure, namely, countries with dictatorial governments, human rights abuses, or those who harbor terrorism. I do agree that, for instance, Dubai should NOT control our ports.

But now, just as the USA runs business operations abroad, other countries should be able to run businesses, even large infrastructures here. It happens everywhere in an interlocked global economy. As long as there are checks and balances, everything should be OK.

Another thing is the obsessive privatization that the US government uses. That's a whole different story.

[brentspeak]

56. Why is that "self-destructive"?

We're not talking about private property; we're talking about public property. Please explain why not having foreigners own American public property is "economically stupid".

As for Exxon and Shell owning other countries' oil assets -- how many people here do you think are big-time supporters of the oil companies?

[sweetheart]

66. really now

It is a bloody maintenance contract for a road. They'll probably
keep the potholes better, why gives a toss. It is a corporate
road, owned by corporations and the corporate car culture since
the outset as you mention... should we be getting so hot about
cars at all, given thier subsidy and impossible sustainable
economics with 6 billion of them. We have so many angles to
waste political points on, but veiled nationalism and protectionism
is worth zip all, and that path is self destructive indeed.

If the protectionists start with this, the resulting capital
flight from american financial markets would exacerbate
the very mythical collapse.

[Bridget Burke]

54. This stinks as badly as Rick Perry's Trans Texas Corridor....

The same Spanish firm, Cintra, is involved. Here's one of the blogs against the plan:

www.transtexascorridor.blogspot.com/

Chris Bell, our Democratic candidate for governor, appeared at a rural meeting of those opposed to the plan:

www.chrisbell.com/node/1135

"Independent" candidates Friedman & Strayhorn were also at the meeting & share a dim view of the boondoggle.

[anotherdrew]

58. couldn't Indiana just get a bank loan against future toll profits?

why sacrifice billions and billions of future profits for a few billion now?

[Roland99]

59. I guess this is a map of the toll road

http://www.in.gov/dot/motoristinfo/pdfs/tollroadmap.pdf

[NYC]

61. If I had to pay the King of France a tax every time I

crossed Fifth Avenue, how would I feel?

I really don't see much of a difference. This just keeps plaguing me.

[lostnfound]

65. Kick. Important, and worth passing on to freepers if you know any

and any other people with an 'America-first' personna.

[salin]

67. Looks like Mitch's "Major Moves" has begun a movement

to "Ditch Mitch!"

Not only is this a 'last straw' for many who do not support the project (I think the public opinion was 2/3 against it), but the steamroller tactics Mitch used, and continues to use to get his way.

According to SurveyUSA, his approval numbers have gone from the 40s, to the 30s. Between Mitch and Jr, a few more parts of this state might just turn a tinge bit more purple rather than red.

[Blue_Tires]

68. ttt n/t