Muslims protest cartoons published by Catholic magazine

[deadparrot]

ROME: An Italian Catholic magazine published a satirical cartoon of the Prophet Mohammed cut in half and burning in hell, triggering protests from the country's Muslim leaders, daily La Repubblica reported on Sunday.

The chief editor of Studi Cattolici magazine, Cesare Cavalleri, says the cartoon is inspired by 13th century Italian poet Dante Alighieri, who places Mohammed in hell for bringing divisions to the world in his famous book, "The Divine Comedy".

However, Muslim leaders say the cartoon is blasphemous, unfunny and dangerous.

In remarks published by La Repubblica, Mario Scialoja of the Italian chapter of the World Muslim League criticised the cartoon's "extreme bad taste", while another Muslim leader called it "a provocation".

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1492126.cms

[Warren DeMontague]

1. That's kind of how I feel about "Cathy", "Marmaduke", "The Family Circus"

and "Prince Valiant".

[Fenris]

3. LOL.

I want to see a cartoon of Jeffy from Family Circus burning in Hell.

[okasha]

2. Here we go again.

Some people just don't learn.

[BrklynLiberal]

4. Are they going to claim they were not intentionally trying to instigate

controversy and divisiveness? Are they recruiting for another Crusade?
What maroons!

[Sal Minella]

9. This pope has announced he wants to de-stigmatize the reputation

of the early Crusaders -- maybe this cartoon is the opening salvo of making the Crusaders look good by making the Muslims look bad?

[BrklynLiberal]

10. He is the "George Bush" of the Catholic Church.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

15. Seeing as the early Crusaders were known

to sack and plunder Christian cities when Muslim ones weren't handy, plus to kill inhabitants who weren't Christian in towns like Jerusalem, I'd say Benedict has a long row to hoe.

[Solon]

24. He probably wouldn't view either of those events as bad things...

Remember, most of the Christian Cities sacked by Crusaders were Eastern Orthodox, not Catholic, and killion Non-Christians, that seems to be something he wants to bring back.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

25. Very true

Did you watch the Crusades hosted by the Monty Python chap too? Gave a whole new perspective on what went on for many folks, I think.

[Solon]

27. The Crusades were definately nothing to be proud of...

One thing that this new Pope seems hellbent on doing is undoing the changes of the previous Pope, in addition to that, he seems to want to regress the Church to a structure of power similar to what it held in the middle ages. This is something to be concerned about, and if he goes too far, he may be facing the worst schism crisis since the Protestant Reformation.

[Bridget Burke]

61. The previous Pope was as conservative as Pope Benedict.

But people gave JPII a pass because he was more photogenic & charming.

[Solon]

69. At least under the previous Pope, there was Vatican 2...

This Pope is even MORE conservative than the last one, that is what concerns me, that he may mess with that, and his is more strident and reactionary than the last Pope as well.

[Bridget Burke]

70. Wrong Pope(s)!

John XXIII started the 2nd Vatican Council in 1962. It closed in 1965--under Paul VI.

Benedict & JPII were allies & both preferred the traditional approach to Catholicism. However, JPII was a media star--so people gave him a pass.

[Solon]

71. Ahh SHIT! I hate being wrong, especially considering I'm a former Catholic

Oh, well, my "specialty" if you could call it that, is Ancient history, both of the Church but also of ancient civilizations and the religions they followed, probably explains why I'm Wiccan now. Considering that for most of my life, actually all of it till he died, Pope John Paul the Second was THE Pope, remembering who came before him is rather difficult. Though I will say this, JPII wasn't as traditionalist as Opus Dei(Latin Mass), at least he supported Vatican II, I don't know about all of Ratzinger's positions, though he is MUCH more blunt and less soft spoken, unlike the previous Pope. I think JPII could be considered the Grandfather figure, sweet guy overall, but somewhat naive, and said the zaniest things sometimes, but you ignore them cause he was old. Ratzinger, on the other hand, seems more like that mean uncle you are forced to deal with, who holds all his prejudices on his shoulder, and constantly cuts you down for no good reason.

[Bridget Burke]

73. Benedict & JPII had different personalities.....

But they had NO doctrinal differences.

(Did you lose your Papal Trading Cards? I'm still looking for a Pope Joan.)

[Solon]

74. LOL, Papal Trading Cards, do you have a Pope Innocent II? :)

[Bridget Burke]

75. That was just a joke....

But others have had the idea. There have been some Saintly Popes--but the Bad Popes might be worth more.

www.halfbakery.com/idea/Pope_20Collectible_20Trading_20Cards

Someone is going to get rich off the ida. After all, the first 2 sets of Holy Habits Paper Dolls are OOP; #1 is un-findable at e-Bay.

[Solon]

79. I know it was a joke, I was trying to play along...

Though it doesn't surprise me that somebody else came up with the idea, and even printed cards. Maybe I could write up a set of rules and put in other luminaries from other religions in there, make it like Magic: The Gathering or something, that would be funny. "Pope John Paul II did 2 damage to the Lord of Flies." :)

[JVS]

76. I remember hearing theories that in JP's declining years he outsourced...

doctrine to Cardinal Ratzinger.

[Emendator]

85. Actually

he is moving to a reconciliation with Orthodox Christianity and may, hopefully, be remembered for beginning the process of undoing the schism of 1054. There will not be another schism.

[Scurrilous]

26. The Pope didn't commission this cartoon.

Nor is he the publisher or editor of the magazine that carried it.


From the article:

"Pope Benedict XVI had strongly criticised the publication of anti-Muslim cartoons by Danish newspapers earlier..."

[951-Riverside]

12. I hope they were.

I love how muslim fundies get worked up over something as simple as a picture, homosexuality, women not covering themselves but they never seem to get worked up over whats happening to their people in iraq, gitmo bay, etc.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

16. Do you really mean that?

How is instigating more hatred and stirring up sectarian violence helping anyone except the very fundamentalist leaders you are chastizing? It is stuff like this Vatican stunt that actually hurts the voices of reason in Islam, the moderates and progressives. We say, hey, show compassion and mercy, remember what the Beloved Prophet did when he was attacked while at prayer (he did nothing, and miraculously escaped harm), etc, etc, but the heckling doesn't stop. So we are told that the westerners don't listen to reason, and can only understand violence. And moderates and liberals themselves are suppressed, tortured, and silenced within their own lands (A Sufi shrine was demolished recently in Iran, for example).

[tn-guy]

28. Where are these voices?

I'd love to hear from "the voices of reason in Islam, the moderates and progressives." Unfortunately, they appear to be nowhere to be found. Whether this is due to near total intimidation by the extremist or because there are no moderates and progressives I have no way of knowing. In any case the result is the same.

Salmon Rushdie was condemned to death by Islamic clerics. Did any prominent Islamic cleric forcefully refute that action?

Theo van Gogh was murdered in the name of Islam. Did any prominent Islamic cleric denounce that act and refute the killers claim?

Muslims rioted in many countries over the Danish cartoons. Several innocents were killed. Did any prominent Islamic cleric forcefully condemn the riots and killings?

I don't mean to paint all Muslims with the same brush but I cannot fail to note that when some radical, nutcase like Eric Rudolph claims to be acting on God's behalf, Christian leaders don't hesitate to condemn his actions and say they have no part in the Christian faith. We've all seen that idiot Fred Phelps in the news every time a serviceman is laid to rest. I've seen many public statements by Christian ministers and denomination offices repudiating him. Muslims must be willing to condemn similar Muslim nut cases who claim divine sanction for their sick, twisted, hateful actions.

I know this posting will touch a raw nerve with many. If I am wrong it will be easy to demonstrate. I'll gladly retract everything I say here if anyone can point me to a forceful, repeated, public denunciation of the fatwa against Rushdie and the violence following the Danish cartoon controversy by any recognized, prominent Saudi cleric.

[Solon]

51. The problem is identifying a prominent cleric in Islam...

That's your problem, it isn't a big Monolithic Church like the Catholic Church, nor does it have an official structure like the Anglican Church. Islamic clerics issue statements all the time condemning violence, etc. but it gets no air time because it doesn't sell. Here, I'll give you a perfect example, name on Prominent Islamic Cleric, just one, of any persuasion. When the rioting happened over the Danish Cartoons, Muslims protested AGAINST the riots in places like Jordan, while British Muslim Clerics condemned the REACTION to the cartoons. But do people hear about that stuff, no, and also, as a side note, I don't remember any Christian Clerics condeming Timothy McVeigh, I just assumed they endorsed his action by omission, but that's just me.

[tn-guy]

80. Name that cleric, the new game show

I'll name two prominent clerics and tell you where to find others.

Certainly Khomeini was prominent when he issued the fatwa condemning Rushdie. I don't think anyone could claim he was unknown. One often hears the pronouncements of al Sadr in news from Iraq. I don't know where he is in any formal structure but his name is well recognized and, by definition, prominent. Try a Google search of "prominent Muslim cleric" and see what you get.

I'm sure that many "mainstream" Muslim clerics do actually condemn the mindless violence that is committed in the name of Islam. However; I'm also sure that many publicly endorse it. The news accounts are too full of instances demonstrating this. Were 1 out of 25 Christian ministers to publicly applaud abortion clinic bombings or the antics of Fred Phelps the outcry against Christianity itself would be deafening and it would be justified. Yet one can almost daily read news accounts where a Muslim cleric in charge of some mosque is applauding the latest killing of Jews in Israel or calling for the killing of Danish cartoonists or cheering al-Queda latest atrocity. When the "fringe nut case" wing of any group becomes larger than 1-2% the makeup of the group itself must be called into question. If one were to survey every Muslim cleric in the world, what percentage would a) favor the elimination of Israel and the Jewish people, b) offer justification for 9/11, c) support the killing of Salmon Rushdie? I'd bet it would be a sizable percentage.

[DemExpat]

81. Liberal Muslim clergy is an oxymoron here in The Netherlands

concerning social issues, personal freedoms, civil rights, etc.

As far as any condemnation of 9/11, London, suicide bombers in the name of Allah, murder of Theo van Gogh, etc., there is almost none, and if there is an attempt at trying to express condemnation, it is always followed by a big "BUT"...."he had it coming", "its because of Palestine", "freedom of speech is fine, but not if it is disrespectful of religious beliefs".....always qualified by an excuse for the violence!

DemEx

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

54. Perhaps you haven't found them because

the media tends not to carry their messages of moderation, or talk about their conferences or even the fatwas condemning terrorism. I would suggest you go to the Muslim/Islam forum right here at DU and look down the list of topics. You'll find many articles where moderate Muslims have spoken out. Kindly realize that the media here doesn't just skew things in favor of Republicans, but also against certain groups, like Muslims, to make sure extremist views are widely reported while those of moderation are considered "unnewsworthy". Bushco must have his bogeyman, and since the Commies lost their power, he's chosen Islam to take their place.

[tn-guy]

84. I looked as you suggested.....

ayeshahaqqiqa,

I did take a look at the Muslim/Islam group here at DU and you are correct that there were a collection of moderate sounding voices there. This is indeed cause for hope.

However; I also found this elsewhere on the internet which amply demonstrates my point. In this report we learn that vile, hateful, bigoted filth was being peddled out of the Grand Mosque in Stockholm. Were there no "moderate" voices at that mosque to say, "This is wrong,"?

Again, note that this is not some renegade effort by a lone individual but something done by those in charge of the mosque. What does it take for a congregation to say enough? How does such a cleric maintain his position if his words and theology are so far out of bounds? Or is it the ugly truth that he is not out of bounds at all but rather, in the mainstream of what his congregation thinks? Were this an isolated incident I might dismiss it but you and I both know this sort of thing goes on throughout the world.

I grew up in the segregated south. I know firsthand that not everyone in the south was a racist; far from it. Until a sizable percentage of southerners were willing to speak out against bigotry everyone in the south was tarred with the same brush, and with some validity. After all, those who kept silent were complicit in perpetuating that evil. Islam faces a similar crisis today. When leaders of mosques continue to spew hatred and bigotry with no chastisement from their congregants it leads to the natural assumption by observers that the congregation approves or at least does not disapprove of the message. If Islam is truly a religion of peace, as has been stated by many, a sizable percentage of Muslims must begin to actively condemn the racial hatred that is being preached in many mosques each week.

[Emendator]

87. it's always the media's fault - LOL

You sound like the FReepers complaining about how the media doesn't report the good news coming out of Iraq.

[Bridget Burke]

62. Too bad you weren't in Houston yesterday.

I saw many Muslims in Old Market Square. They were dressed in various national costumes--more colorful than their normal dress, I'd imagine. And they had flags--mostly the Red White & Blue. I could not understand the Arabic chant but later found out they were celebrating Mohammed's birthday.

Birthday celebration sheds light on Islam
Houston-area Muslims unite downtown to share words of prophet

By CYNTHIA LEONOR GARZA
Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle

Members of Houston's Sunni and Shia Muslim communities took to downtown streets Sunday to commemorate the birthday of Islam's Prophet Muhammad.

The celebration is also observed in homes, mosques, restaurants or community centers — and in public processions throughout the world — but this is the first time various sects of the local Muslim community have come together in solidarity to spread the message about the teachings of Muhammad during the celebration known as Id Milad un-Nabi.

"We need to change the perception of Muslims. We are open to everyone," said Syed Shah, an organizer. By gathering in downtown, others can "see what we do and that our mosques are open, our houses are open. They can get information directly from us."

www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/metro/3797579.html

You are free to remain ignorant.

[BrklynLiberal]

77. The MSM does not skew to the right to the detriment of Democrats only.

It is in the best interst of the MSM, and they are paid well, to demonize Muslims, so you can be sure they will not go out of their way to write stories about moderate Muslims or highlight stories of Muslims who condemn the reactionary and violent actions of the cadres that we hear about in the headlines.

[Emendator]

86. Yeah right

Muslims are going to have to accept people picking on Mohammed, as there's a lot to pick on. Too bad. If they wouldn't act like the crybabies of the world, maybe they wouldn't be held in such low regard.

The big bad West is always picking on poor Islam. Boo hoo. Tough.

[Spinoza]

56. You are right.

Those moronic maroons are really stupid!

[longship]

5. Enough of this garbage.

Muslims, Christians, and every other religious sect need to get over themselves and acknowledge that they don't own the truth. It's the only way that this old world of ours is going to live through these tough times.

Tolerance is the answer. And I don't mean the kind of tolerance that stifles what people say, write, or draw.

[Emendator]

88. "Tolerance" is not the answer

Why do we have to tolerate it when a man, such as Abdul Rahman in Afghanistan, is to be killed for leaving Islam? And who knows how many thousands, or perhaps millions, have to live in constant fear of death for apostacy? Why do we keep making excuses for this religion?

The West does a lot wrong. We had no business deposing Mossadeqh in Iran, no business getting involved in Iraq (both wars), and we should be more fair to the Palestinians. I'll grant all that.

The answer lies in America not intervening militarily in the Muslim world, and for Islam to stop being so intolerant. The former is possible, the latter may not be.

[Bill McBlueState]

6. "dangerous"

Well, unlike say, tsunamis and hurricanes, cartoons are only dangerous if religious fanatics choose to make them dangerous. Prepare for free speech to be assaulted once again.

[Jazz2006]

50. Yes. Sad but true. n/t

[Burning Water]

7. How can a non-Muslim

blaspheme Mohamed?

And why should the Muslims care? According to their doctrine, non-Muslims are going to hell, anyway.

[BohemianJordy]

14. Not sure if that is correct...

One of my closest friends is Muslim, and according to her (and other muslims) Allah welcomes anyone into heaven if they are a good person, they don't have to be Muslim...I don't know if this is stated in the Koran, but I think it's a belief held by many Muslims. I think the idea that non-muslims go to hell is a extremist belief. I'm not sure. I could be wrong, and I'm sure someone here knows more on the topic than I do, so feel free to correct me.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

18. Welcome to DU!

I believe you are correct, BohemianJordy. And if your friend is from Texas and is a Sufi, I probably know them. :hi:

[Emendator]

89. Skeptics' Annotated Koran

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/index.html

Make up your own mind.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

17. Islamic doctrine doesn't exclude non-Muslims from paradise

All People of the Book, all believers, will make it. Sure, Wahhabists might be restrictive in their doctrine, but they aren't all Islam, any more than Pat Robertson is all Christianity. Sufis say all paths lead to God, and some orders, mine included acknowledge and honor all faiths.

[951-Riverside]

22. Which book are you refering to?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

23. People of the Book

refers to Jews, Christians, and Muslims, because in Islam the message from God is one message, one Book, as it were, that came through various prophets. If you follow the Message as given by Abraham, or if you follow the message as given by Jesus, you are a person of the Book as much as someone following the Message as given to Mohammed.

[Spinoza]

57. Not true.

Koran 8:37
"In order that Allah may seperate the impure from the pure, Put All the impure ones, one on top of the another in a Heap and cast them into Hell. They will be the ones to have lost."

Koran 58:5
"Those who resist Allah and His Messenger will be crumbled to dust, as were those before them: for we have already sent down Clear Signs and the Unbelievers will have a humiliating Penalty"

Koran 44:43-50
"Verily the Tree of Zaqqum will be the food of the sinful. Like molten brass it will boil in their insides, Like the boiling of scalding water Seize Ye Him and drag him into the midst of the blazing Fire Then pour over his head the penalty of Boiling Water"

Koran 2:89-90
The Curse of Allah is on those without faith. Thus have they drawn wrath upon wrath on themselves and humiliating is the punishment of those who reject faith"

Koran 9:35
"On the day when Heat will be produced out of the wealth in the Fire of Hell, and with it will be branded their foreheads, their sides and their backs- "This is the treasure that ye buried for yourselves, taste ye then the treasures that ye buried."

Koran 8:50
"If you could see when the angels take the souls of the Unbelievers at death. How they smite their faces and backs saying "Taste the penalty of the blazing Fire"

Koran 5:33 "The only reward for those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom..."

The above is only a small sample.

[ashling]

8. So it's the Catholic Church position that

its world paradigm is stuck in the 13th century. Next: the re-excommunication of Gallileo followed by the burning of witches, film at eleven. :sarcasm:

[IndianaGreen]

19. According to Catholic orthodoxy, Albert Sweitzer is burning in Hell

because he was Protestant.


Albert Schweitzer
Philosopher, Physician & Humanitarian
1875 - 1965

Man must cease attributing his problems to his environment, and learn again to exercise his will—his personal responsibility.

—Albert Schweitzer

http://www.lucidcafe.com/library/96jan/schweitzer.html

[Emendator]

90. Galileo is buried in the Vatican

so I kind of doubt he will be excommunicated. Nice try.

[Emendator]

91. Correction

He is buried in the Basilica di Santa Croce in Florence. My bad. Regardless, hats off to the Big GG.

[Kellanved]

11. At the moment I do believe the Catholic church should STFU

And I am catholic.

http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=52&story_id=29223&name=German+Catholics+protest+'Popetown'+spoof+series

[JVS]

13. As long as nobody gets hurt, carry on

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

20. Ah, that's the thing

But I can't help but wonder about the intention behind this publication. Was it to simply exercise free speech or was it intended to enrage Muslims? If the latter, who is to gain by this? Certainly not the Church, as I doubt if such cartoons will create a groundswell of converts from Islam. Certainly not the moderate and liberal elements of Islam, who have called again and again for calm, who are working for ecumenical councils to open up dialogs and work together to solve problems. No. Frankly, the only ones I see to benefit from this are the Wahhabist leaders who wish to make everyone in Islam conform to their skewed perception of Islam and who wish to harm those in the rest of the world whose belief systems do not conform with theirs.

[TreasonousBastard]

47. From what I can see...

it's one Catholic troglodyte just stirring things up.

I'm thinking the editor who concocted this is getting his jollies looking at the shitstorm he started.

I'm torn here becaused I'm firmly on the side of free speeech and the idea that no one has the right not to be insulted. Rudeness and insult humor is firmly entrenched in Western society, like it or not, and screams of outrage over presumed slights just don't help. Everyone's ox gets gored eventually.

But, there's that throwing gasoline on a fire thing...

[Bridget Burke]

63. Even the Roman Catholic Church is not as monolithic....

As some imagine. Were the cartoons decorated with Nihil Obstat & Imprimitur? Those words indicate the Church officially approves of a publication.

This publisher is just trying to create a controversy--or throw gasoline on the embers of the older one. Dante's work may show some Islamic influence, but HE put Mohammed in Hell. And publishing ANY image of The Prophet can be considered an insult.

In A History of Islamic Sicily, Aziz Ahmad dwells on the controversial connection between Dante's Divine Comedy and prior Islamic works of the same nature. There is no real conclusion to be drawn, except the possibility that our great originator of non-Latin Romance literature got some inspiration from somewhere. Dante certainly knew of Avicenna and Averroës through Latin translation; in the Divine Comedy, he places them both in Purgatory with the great pre-Christian scholars of ancient Greece. (Dante was not so kind to Mohammed, himself, though, who, in Canto 28, is in Hell as a Sower of Discord). Did Dante also know (through its Latin or Early French translations) of The Book of the Scale, an earlier Arab eschatological work that has interesting parallels in the Divine Comedy? Again, we should beware of post hoc reasoning,but it is an intriguing possibility.

www.islamawareness.net/Europe/Italy/rennaissance.html

[smirkymonkey]

78. I agree - It was a pretty stupid thing to do, considering the recent

shitstorm over the same matter. I generally come down on the side of free speech, and usually against religious intolerance, but I see this as nothing but inflammatory on the part of the magazine.

[MetaTrope]

21. So is this magazine the Catholic version of Jack Chick?

:wtf:

[ECH1969]

29. Muslims outraged by new cartoon of Prophet in Hell

An Italian magazine has infuriated Muslims by publishing a cartoon showing the Prophet Mohammed cut in half and burning in Hell.

The drawing appears in Studi Cattolici, a monthly magazine with links to the ultra-conservative Roman Catholic group, Opus Dei. It shows the poets Virgil and Dante on the edge of a circle of flame looking down on Mohammed.

"Isn't that man there, split in two from head to navel, Mohammed?" Dante asks Virgil.

"Yes and he is cut in two because he has divided society," Virgil replies. "While that woman there, with the burning coals, represents the politics of Italy towards Islam."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/04/17/wcart17.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/04/17/ixworld.html

[MnFats]

30. Oh, great. Here we go again. War between Catholics & Muslims...

this time...just what we need at this time...

[Scurrilous]

35. Opus Dei Decries Mohammed Cartoon Published in Catholic Magazine

<snip>

"Opus Dei described as "deplorable" the publication of a cartoon showing the prophet Mohammed in hell, published by the magazine Studii Cattolici, edited by one of its members.

The cartoon, based on a passage of "The Divine Comedy," shows Italian poets Dante Alighieri and Virgil on the edge of a circle of flames looking down on Mohammed, whose body is cut in half. Dante comments that the prophet is cut in half because of the division he brought to society.

The editor of the magazine, Cesare Cavalleri, is a member of Opus Dei.

In a statement released by Marc Carroggio, director of the Opus Dei press office in Rome, the prelature stated: "We consider it deplorable that this cartoon should appear in a magazine that has the name Catholic in its title. Its publication shows a lack of sensitivity and Christian charity."

Although the Opus Dei has no responsibility for this magazine," the statement continued, "and each person is responsible for his or her own actions, we wish to ask forgiveness for the offense given."

http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=87790

[Solo_in_MD]

42. I never realized....

That the Islamofundies needed a union and that Islam was a race.

A spokesman for the Union of Italian Muslim Communities called it "odious and racist".

[Bridget Burke]

64. Muslims are definitely NOT a race. But Muslims in Europe....

Are usually persecuted because of racial & xenophobic reasons.

[Lucy - Claire]

55. No.... This is a handful of Catholics not The Catholic Church¬

No this is one Italian Magazine, which the majority of Catholics will never see,let alone read.This is nothing more than a publicity stunt to sell more copies of a magazine and gain attention.
Those cartoons in the Danish Newspaper were condemned by The Pope, the Catholic press and by priests in the parishes everywhere (It was in my parish.) To blame this on The Vatican is giving the magazine way too much credit for it's importance.

[Erika]

31. Delete Dupe

Religion totally turns me off. They preach love while practicing hate.

[Erika]

32. Why would any religion issue hate cartoons?

Religion totally turns me off. They preach love while practicing hate.

[Endangered Specie]

33. Im not sure who has the thinner skin here...

The moslems upset over the cartoon, or the catholic authors/readers who think its funny.

:shrug:

(life is so much easier being agnostic ;))

[Erika]

37. Gets confusing, doesn't it?

Why would one religion laugh at derogatory cartoons maligning another religion?

While they all claim to be loving and religious. Revoke their tax exemption. These people are hate mongers.

[IChing]

34. "Opus Dei paper prints prophet in hell cartoon "

Your headline is from the "Torygraph"
this is the headline from the Guardian.

Opus Dei paper prints prophet in hell cartoon

John Hooper in Rome
Monday April 17, 2006
The Guardian

A cartoon depicting Muhammed in hell has been published by an Italian magazine close to Opus Dei, bringing angry criticism from Muslim groups and disapproval from the Vatican.
The drawing in Studi cattolici takes its inspiration from Dante's Divine Comedy, in which the 14th-century poet imagines being guided through hell by the Latin poet Virgil, and sees the prophet cut in two as his punishment for spreading division. In the cartoon, Virgil points out another figure to Dante, saying: "And that one there with his pants down, that's Italian policy towards Islam." The caption uses a play on words to suggest Italy has chickened out in its attitude to Muslims.
>>>snip.......................
http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoonprotests/story/0,,1755352,00.html?gusrc=rss

[Erika]

39. Hate begets hate

Glad I don't participate in their "religions"

[IChing]

41. Opus Dei Asks for 'Da Vinci' Disclaimer

April 15, 2006

ROME - The conservative religious group Opus Dei has asked for a disclaimer on the upcoming film based on the best-selling novel "The Da Vinci Code."

Opus Dei, portrayed as a murderous, power-hungry sect in the novel by Dan Brown, wrote in an April 6 letter to Sony Corp (NYSE:SNE - news). that a disclaimer would show respect to Jesus and to the Catholic Church.

"Any such decision by Sony would be a gesture of respect toward the figure of Jesus, to the history of the Church and to the religious beliefs of viewers," Opus Dei wrote in the letter, which was posted on its Italian Web site.>>>>>snip
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2229185&mesg_id=2229185

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060415/ap_on_en_mo/da_vinci_code

:evilgrin: :banghead: :rofl: :rofl: :popcorn:

[NYC]

43. It's fiction. Who cares what the author writes?

This reminds me of The Satanic Verses by Salman Rushdie. Another work of fiction condemned by a religion.

[IChing]

46. If you followed my thread the guardian said that the paper that

wrote this is a Opus Dei paper, hypocrites, fear-mongering, fundamentalist assholes, the whole organized religions.

What did Marx say? Not that I am one but sometimes the shoe fits

“Religion is the impotence of the human mind to deal with occurrences it cannot understand”

“History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce.”

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world,
just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people.

[NYC]

48. Yes, the article said it is an Opus Dei paper,

but Opus Dei disclaims responsibility. It's edited by an Opus Dei member. Scalia is also an Opus Dei member. Also, the spy, Hansen, was Opus Dei.

Nice group of people.

[Bridget Burke]

65. The editor is Opus Dei, but Opus Dei calls this "deplorable"...

Code: ZE06041601

Date: 2006-04-16

Opus Dei Decries Mohammed Cartoon

Published in Catholic Magazine

ROME, APRIL 16, 2006 (Zenit.org).- Opus Dei described as "deplorable" the publication of a cartoon showing the prophet Mohammed in hell, published by the magazine Studii Cattolici, edited by one of its members......

The editor of the magazine, Cesare Cavalleri, is a member of Opus Dei.

In a statement released by Marc Carroggio, director of the Opus Dei press office in Rome, the prelature stated: "We consider it deplorable that this cartoon should appear in a magazine that has the name Catholic in its title. Its publication shows a lack of sensitivity and Christian charity."

"Although the Opus Dei has no responsibility for this magazine," the statement continued, "and each person is responsible for his or her own actions, we wish to ask forgiveness for the offense given."

www.zenit.org/english/

This doesn't help that "all powerful Opus Dei, blindly obeyed by all its members" legend.

[Oversea Visitor]

36. Not religion fault

x( just ugly people trying to use it as a toll to cause hate

[tblue37]

52. Must be one of those "bad apples"--

like the ones that keep getting the poor Bush administration into trouble.

[TechBear_Seattle]

38. Didn't Dante place Muhammad in one of the inner circles?

It has been a long time since I've read "The Inferno" but I'm pretty sure that Muhammad is in the circle of heretics. Does this mean that everyone who has ever read "The Inferno" is condemned to death by fundamentalist Muslim fatwa?

[Erika]

40. Probably under our theocratic government n/t

[lovuian]

44. are these guys Idiots are just wanting attacks on Rome and the

vatican... :nuke:

[951-Riverside]

45. They are not the idiots

The only idiots are the people who are okay with censoring anything that might offend a few sexually confused religious fanatics.

[Zhade]

53. This isn't just offensive to Muslim fundamentalists.

EVERY Muslim will take issue with this. It's the equivalent of putting Jesus into hell.

Not that I believe any of this nonsense, but there it is. This was intended to be inflammatory. Why, I do not know.

[951-Riverside]

60. Re: "It's the equivalent of putting Jesus into hell."

Glad you brought that up because I've seen images of Jesus naked, smeared with poo, pooing on people, etc I've also seen images of God, Buddha but I never see anyone throw raging child-like tantrums over them. I don't think every muslim gets worked up unfortunately because of the propagandist media in both the east and west you don't get to hear from these people.

But this isn't about protecting religion this is about testing the waters when it comes to censorship.

EVERY Muslim will take issue with this.

This is what the sexually frustrated, confused & deprived fundies would love to believe its simply not going to happen.

[madmark2]

49. muslims are more aggressive about bad press than the scientologists

[snooper2]

58. But they both hate South Park

:)

[noonwitch]

59. Why are muslims reading catholic magazines?

are they just looking for things to be offended by?

If a publisher chooses not to print an image of mohammed out of respect for muslims, that's one thing. Not because anyone asked for it to happen, but just because the publisher is respectful.

However, I'm one of those people who thinks that if a group tries to tell the larger population what to read, draw, or look at, then I think it is the publisher's responsibility to ensure the allegedly offensive item is printed. To do otherwise is to cave in to terrorist tactics.

It's like my beliefs about flag burning. I never have burned a flag and have no reason or compulsion to do so. If they make it illegal, however, I will start to burn flags, because then I will have a reason to protest in such a manner.

[Bridget Burke]

66. Apparently, not many people are reading this magazine.....

But the publisher is hoping this maneuver will prop up his sagging circulation.

The publisher was being rude. People have the right to say he was being rude.

[951-Riverside]

67. And he has a right to be rude

[Bridget Burke]

68. Did I say he didn't?

Anti-Muslim prejudice appears to outweight anti-Catholic prejudice in this matter.

Too bad there are so many anti's....

[951-Riverside]

72. No.

Anti-Muslim prejudice appears to outweight anti-Catholic prejudice in this matter.

Too bad there are so many anti's....

Like Anti-Bush, Anti-War.... :sarcasm: (I'm both of those by the way)

[DemExpat]

82. Related - I support many more instances of demonstrating free speech!

This courageous Dutch (Iranian refugee) intellectual is walking a dangerous line here in The Netherlands with his views warning of the dangers of growing Islamic radicalism within our societies as well as beyond. And his advocacy for MORE, not less free speech - even that which offends religious sentiments - to counteract the censorship.

http://afshinellian.blogspot.com/

21 January, 2006
Stop Capitulating to Threats – A Manifesto
PRESS RELEASE - Winternachten - international literature festival The Hague

Dutch/Iranian poet and Professor of Law Afshin Ellian:
Stop self-censorship - stop the ban on the film 'Submission'


Unfortunately after the murder of Van Gogh there was a change of heart on freedom of expression. This concerns film Submission, made by Theo van Gogh and the Dutch member of parliament Ayaan Hrisi Ali about the oppression of women in Islamic culture.

The film Submission has not been shown since 2 November 2004.

In fact, the film is under an informal screening ban. This ban has been decreed not by any authority but by criminal groups threatening terrorist acts. In 2005 in the Netherlands the producers do not dare show a ten-minute film to the public because the safety of their production company cannot be guaranteed. We are beginning to regard this as normal in the Netherlands as elsewhere. Actually, why are we fighting for freedom of expression for artists and journalists in autocratic countries like Iran when the situation in the Netherlands is starting to look suspiciously similar?........................snip....................

I also support more publishings of satirical cartoons pertaining to religious beliefs.

DemEx

[DemExpat]

83. His view on cartoons, jokes about Islam, religions.....

A call to all intellectuals: "Make Jokes about Islam!"
("Maak grappen over Islam!")
Volkskrant, 6th November 2004

The author and film director Theo van Gogh had made a film about Muslim women's rights called Submission Part 1 together with member of parliament Ayaan Hirsi Ali. He was murdered on 2nd November by a Moroccan-Dutch Islamist Mohammed Bouyeri, who is referred to in the Dutch media as "Mohammed B." and recently received a life sentence. A few days after the murder, Afshin Ellian called upon all intellectuals and lawmakers to discuss Islam more openly, arguing that genuine tolerance has its origins in the possibility to criticize religion.

The first poet whom Mohammed A. (ibn Abdollah) had declared the enemy of Islam was called K'ab ibn al-Ashraf. The prophet gave the order to murder the poet with a knife. (…)
The prophet Mohammed A. was an example to Mohammed B, who slaughtered Theo van Gogh as the enemy of Islam. Welcome to the Middle East. But aren't we in Europe? The artistic, philosophic and judicial critique of religion is an essential aspect of European culture. (…) Yet here there seems to be a kind of self-censorship when it comes to Islam. (…) Dutch Muslims have learnt that no one is permitted to express critical thoughts about their religion. For this reason Islam is being strongly discriminated against. Dutch culture treats Islam as forbidden territory for critical inquiry, and in this respect, the Netherlands resembles the backward cultures of the Middle East. (…)

Hereby I call upon all artists, writers and academics to stop discriminating against Islam. When on television and in hundreds of theatres jokes are being made about Islam, and when academics will start treating Islam more critically, then Muslims will learn tolerance. The terrorists can intimidate and eliminate a handful of critics of Islam, but they can never kill hundreds of critical minds.

Come on friends, and enter the brothels and torture chambers of Mohammed A. and Allah, you will find great inspiration there. Come on, fellow academics, put Islam on the operating table of philosophy. Otherwise it will remain a question of how many murders our society can deal with.

http://afshinellian.blogspot.com/

I believe that this is what is called for in the fight to defend our democracies of protected civil rights.

DemEx

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

92. The actual cartoon which doesn't portray Mohammed at all

"The drawing in Studi cattolici takes its inspiration from Dante's Divine Comedy, in which the 14th-century poet imagines being guided through hell by the Latin poet Virgil, and sees the prophet cut in two as his punishment for spreading division. In the cartoon, Virgil points out another figure to Dante, saying: "And that one there with his pants down, that's Italian policy towards Islam." The caption uses a play on words to suggest Italy has chickened out in its attitude to Muslims."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoonprotests/story/0,,1755352,00.html