LAT: Here Illegally, but Choosing to Pay Taxes

[Rose Siding]

They may be here illegally, but tens of thousands of undocumented immigrants are expected to abide by Uncle Sam's rules by filing tax returns — with the hope of someday becoming U.S. citizens.

Though there is no way of knowing how many people are filing taxes in response to the national debate on immigration, Southern California tax preparers are seeing a steady stream of clients eager to be on record as taxpayers.
...
The IRS, which has issued more than 9.2 million tax identification numbers since 1996, does not ask whether immigrants are legal. "Our job is to make sure that everyone who earns income within our borders pays the proper amount of taxes, even if they may not be working here legally," IRS Commissioner Mark W. Everson said in an e-mail.
...
Inside the office last week, Carmelo Santiago Hernandez signed his tax return and learned he would receive a $15 refund. Hernandez, an illegal immigrant, arrived from Mexico four years ago and works as a janitor. Last year, he said he earned just over $11,000. He paid about $700 toward Social Security and $160 to Medicare.

Hernandez, 28, decided to apply for an ITIN and file taxes after an uncle suggested it might increase his chances to become a legal resident someday. "You never lose hope," said Hernandez, who is married with three children.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-taxes17apr17,0,2638694.story?coll=la-home-headlines

[Atman]

1. Illegals won't even answer the damned CENSUS!

Because they're afraid it is just a tip-off to the fed where to find them and deport them. But they'll file TAX RETURNS? :rofl:

[mdmc]

2. yup.. the gov. is not interested in counting them, but they will take $$$

illegals know that giving tax money to the gov. will look good down the road. Tipping of the census people is a lose lose for illegals.

[DBoon]

3. I've worked for the county before

and illegals had an excellent reputation for paying their bills for social services where required. If they had to seek medical care, they would always pay - maybe only $10/month, but they wanted to establish a reputation for good citizenship so they could legalize their status down the road.

[lovuian]

10. $10 a month doesn't cover bills of thousands of dollars

thats wonderful that they do it but can Americans do that to pay their medical bills cause woohoo I'll pay 10 bucks a month...

Its their medical bills they can't pay... thats one of the biggest things Americans are paying for

[LostinVA]

13. Yes, Americans can do that in many places

You'll never pay it off, but you can do that. I know someone who owes $40,000+ in hospital bills because they had no insurance, and they pay $50 a month. And will be until the day they die.

[bleedingheart]

20. it is fine to pay $50 a month on a bill until the debt is sold...

once the hospital sells that debt....all bets are off. then the debt collectors will get nasty...

[QC]

23. Yes, I have experienced that one before.

Had to go to the ER when I was unemployed and got socked with a bill for $5k. Couldn't pay it, and the collections people threatened to contact my employer, called me all hours of the day and night, threatened to sue, etc. It was truly an awful experience.

[lovuian]

31. Your experience is one many Americans have faced

Ilegal Mexicans can change their address and telephone number and having no identity papers go off and pay nothing compared to the average American...

they are not trackable... so therfore Americans pay for their medical bills...

[DBoon]

14. they are making every possible effort to pay

and you can't assume they are are ripping off thousands of dollars from the county, because you don't know what the total amount of the bill is.

They are on a payment plan, just like any other low income person.

They are doing the honest thing and paying their bills according to the plan.

This is more than many people who make much more money do.

[Rose Siding]

21. The strain on health care by 45 million uninsured Americans is far greater

I found a number of the arguments on this blog pursuavive and informative-

snip>
MICHAEL SAYS: 1. The place increasingly difficult demands on an already overloaded medical system and inability to pay exacerbated by showing up for treatment at emergency rooms where they cannot be refused.

ALISA SAYS: My dear Michael: By far the biggest strain on our healthcare system is the 45 million uninsured American citizens who are far more likely than any undocumented immigrant to seek the free treatment you describe here. Now, before you say, “yeah, but they’re 'murkin citizens,” consider that many of them are too poor to pay taxes. So your taxes are going to pay for their free health care. This crisis has been created by our being the only Industrialized Western Democracy on EARTH without universal health care. If your concern is truly about taxpayer money being spent to pay for other people’s healthcare, you should address this problem honestly and with the correct facts.

For the record, 45 million is a number larger than the entire elderly population of this nation, larger than the entire African American population of this nation, larger than the entire LEGAL Latino population of this nation and larger than the entire country of Canada, and more than four times the entire population of Greece.

The number of American citizens without healthcare has SOARED under President Bush. The number of uninsured Americans has GROWN by 5.2 million since 2000. Most of these people are non-Hispanic, poor whites. In fact, under our current president we have witnessed the single largest increase in poverty among white Americans IN HISTORY. Could it be that you leaders would like to distract you from this and other shocking facts about their lack of leadship? Could it be that scapegoating “illegals” is a convenient way to draw the attention of concerned Americans like you from the real issues that face us all?

Finally, I will leave you with the key finding of a report by the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities regarding healthcare coverage in our nation for 2004, the most recent year for which data is available: The percentage of native citizens who were uninsured rose in 2004, while the percentage of non-citizen immigrants who lacked coverage fell.

I appreciate your alarm, but as you can see it is being misdirected by a sophisticated propaganda machine whose main puppets are Fox News, Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh. The facts do not support your concerns.

.....more......

http://alisavaldesrodriguez.blogspot.com/2006/04/more-stupidity-in-my-in-box.html

[judaspriestess]

24. obviously you don't see credit reports

a good 50% of credit reports I see are of AMERICANS who owe a butt load for medical collections and don't pay them at all, anywhoo

Thanks for posting this story!! If they are filing tax returns that means they are paying taxes through their payroll checks.

How many Americans don't pay their taxes at all? A whole lot of them or their wouldn't be all these tax attorneys in place.

[neuvocat]

7. You do have a point.

The L.A. Times has been missing the mark on politics by a mile recently. Its creditability is highly suspect.

[Acadia Blue]

4. How do we know that their employers submit the taxes?

Many corrupt employers take taxes from the pay of illegals and just keep it because they know the illegals will not file to get a return.

[Acadia Blue]

5. NPR had a story about the scam taking place in New Orleans now

where contractors hire subs who hire illegals and no one is paying into the social security pot. Its the fault of the American employers for not demanding it. One reason SS is in trouble is that billions is being ripped off by corrupt employers who hire illegals or Americans who should not be subs and then don't pay thier share. The illegals pay nothing but its the employers fault.

[951-Riverside]

6. Do they obtain their own SS card/number being here illegally?

[rigel434]

8. Not sure it's all done out of patriotism

Paying taxes can actually EARN a sufficiently low income worker money if he has (or claims to have) enough children- through the earned-income tax credit. Besides, a large employer like Tyson Foods is going to withhold taxes on all its workers, and the only way the illegals can get their refund is through a tax ID numbers.

At least that's my understanding- correct me if I'm wrong.

[LostinVA]

9. Many Illegal Immigrants have SSN cards, and pay the same taxes

we do.

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

11. Then they must be fraudulent numbers or someone else's

because the SSA has been issuing SSNs only to those who have a visa, green card or are U.S. citizens. A person who is here illegally cannot obtain a U.S. social security number (unless that person was here before the change to the SSN procedures occurred a few years ago), so any number used must either be (1) someone else's number or (2) a fake number.

[LostinVA]

12. I know that. They do have fraudulent cards

My point is just that quite a few "Illegals" pay taxes.

[thinkingwoman]

16. those fraudulent cards hurt Americans

like me. I've been a victim of Identity theft. I don't give a flip if they are paying taxes. They have to break the law (by using a fraudulent card/number) to do so.

[LostinVA]

18. The whole "Illegal" topic is something we just have to agree

to disagree on.

[thinkingwoman]

28. agreeing to disagree on opinion

is fine with me.

SS#s being bought and sold relating to the ID Theft aspect of illegal immigration is fact.

[EFerrari]

19. Then numbers used are usually fake ones or those of

a deceased person.

How YOU can be injured by that is food for thought, thinkingwoman.

I love these threads. :)

[Critters2]

29. I discovered, through the SSA, that they were using my number

There are apparently computer programs that generate random SSn's, some fake, but some coincidentally real numbers. I was contacted by the SSA when my number was turned in on a w-4 from an employer in another part of the country. They were checking to see which employee was the REAL SSN xxx-xx-xxxx.
The SSA woman said this is very common.

How you can be so unconcerned about identity theft is food for thought, sfexpat2000.

I guess it doesn't matter until it's YOUR identity that's stolen. How progressive of you.

[judaspriestess]

25. most SS #'s I've seen

are INVENTED numbers. Not Identity theft. They go to someone who makes cards up with made up numbers. The majority of the time, if the number has never been issued the credit reporting agencies will have an alert stating SS # not issued right on the report. This is all part of the partriot act reform.

[thinkingwoman]

27. but ID theft DOES happen

That's what the police officer who's in charge of my case believes happened with mine.

[DBoon]

15. except they will NEVER collect those benefits

so they are subsidizing citizens to the tune of billions of dollars.

They pay in much more to social security than they will ever take out.

[thinkingwoman]

17. Paying taxes with a fraudulent SS number

yeah, that's good citizenship all right. :eyes:

[MisterP]

22. one interesting feature about Mexican-Americans (whether they're here with

or without papers), is that they often volunteer to pay more money for social services. They've seen what "opting out" did for Mexico under an increasingly neoliberalizing PRI.

[Sgent]

26. A ITIN is not a social security

number -- but it can be used in lieu of one to legally pay taxes. There is no law that says you must present a social security card to work -- rather you must present proof lof a legal right to work (passport will do), and a tax ID number.

For citizens, their Tax ID number is their social security number; however, for foriegn nationals you can get a Tax ID number legally so you can report income and pay taxes -- including employer withholding.

[Critters2]

30. But you must be in the country legally

those with no visas can't get ITINs

[Sgent]

33. Sure you can

ITNS can be gotten by anyone anywhere in the world who ows US taxes -- including foriegners who have never set foot on US soil but who owe taxes for derived income.

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. A sign at our local pro immigration protest