Chavez Begins Training Civilian Militia

[cal04]

President Hugo Chavez constantly warns Venezuelans a U.S. invasion is imminent. Now he's begun training a civilian militia as well as the Venezuelan army to resist in the only way possible against a much better-equipped force: by taking to the hills and fighting a guerrilla war. Supporters of the president, a former paratroop commander, are increasingly taking up his call.

Chavez wants 1 million armed men and women in the army reserve, and 150,000 have already joined, surpassing the regular military's force of 100,000. Now Venezuelans are also organizing neighborhood-based militia units for Chavez's Territorial Guard. Critics of Chavez say the real goal of the mobilization is to create the means to suppress internal dissent and defend Chavez's presidency at all costs. Thousands of Territorial Guard volunteers - housewives, students, construction workers - are undergoing training, earning $7.45 per session.

``We're going to be a country of soldiers,'' declares Roberto Salazar, an unemployed 49-year-old, after scrambling under barbed wire, wading through a mud trench and skirting burning tires with other volunteers. Venezuela's citizen-soldiers come mostly from the slums where Chavez draws his fiercest support. They train on weekends, learning how to handle assault rifles and run obstacle courses through clouds of tear gas.

``Venezuelans need to know how to be military people so that we can defend our fatherland and our president,'' Salazar says. Chavez insists the plotters of a 2002 coup that briefly unseated him had Washington's blessing. The United States quickly recognized the interim leaders; U.S. intelligence documents indicate the CIA knew dissident military officers were plotting against Chavez. Chavez now says all Venezuelans must be prepared for a ``war of resistance,'' and has noted that the hills around Caracas provide excellent cover.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-5764387,00.html

[ShortnFiery]

1. Not such a bad idea considering "Mr. Danger" is fu*king NUTS!

[Judi Lynn]

2. It would help if you posted some links bearing out your claims.

Information really helps anchor a charge others might not respect.

[NorthernSpy]

4. "Mister Danger" is Chavez' nickname for George Bush...

... and as for the evidence for "Mister Danger" being effing nuts, just consider the current disaster in Iraq (his idea!) and his recent refusal to rule out using nuclear weapons on Iran, to name just two.

[Judi Lynn]

11. He's given the world proof of his unsuitability for the office he stole

from his first day as pResident. What a horror we're seeing in our daily lives. God only knows how many lives he has destroyed. He's weak mentally and spiritually. He's got NOTHING of value about him.

[Judi Lynn]

5. It appears you weren't aware "Mr. Danger" is a character from

Venezuelan literature. Hugo Chavez didn't create that name, nor did he claim he did.

[corporate_mike]

61. Chavez' attempt to drive up oil prices so he can profit more

everything he says is an attempt to scare analysts and drive up the price of oil

[cosmicdot]

67. gee, and I was thinking it was Bu$h-Cheney-Rice-Rumsfeld n/m

[Poppyseedman]

3. Spot on

Critics of Chavez say the real goal of the mobilization is to create the means to suppress internal dissent and defend Chavez's presidency at all costs.

Chavez has already fundamentally changed the Constitution to strengthen his control over the legislators house after the 2002 coup.

This move is to blunt the military leverage as Venezuela has a history of coups when a single person gets too powerful

For now oil is his lifeblood to his power.

[killbotfactory]

6. What changes were made after the 2002 coup?

[Poppyseedman]

10. Several things he has done to consolidate power.

He changed the Constitution by replacing a bicameral Congress to a unicameral National Assembly, thus squeezing out dissent.

All promotions in the armed forces now are directly approved by Chavez instead of a Armed Services Commission

Removed a Constitutionally provision for government funding of electoral candidates to give them equal footing with sitting candidates

[Judi Lynn]

12. Some links on these claims would be helpful, if you'll take the time

to back up your charges.

[Poppyseedman]

15. Gee, I didn't think I was was making charges against Chavez.

Just stating facts. How they are viewed is entirely up to the reader.

As for a link, the source I stated is a subscription service I paid for and non payers do not have access.

But in interest of protocol I will see if I can't google a link.

[worldgonekrazy]

46. Well I will

The man is trying to solidify his position as dictator. I don't think many here on DU would even disagree with that statement. They would say that at least he is a benevolent dictator and thus better than the oligarchy that only cares for the rich. You could certainly make a persuasive argument in that direction, but the bottom line is that dictators are bad, period.

[Bacchus39]

47. actually alot here would disagree with you

believe me I know. however, I do tend to agree with you. and "benevolent dictator" is an oxymoron.

[killbotfactory]

51. Yep. Dictators always win free and fair elections

Hey, did you know he was friends with Catstro!? OMG!

[rman]

54. Unsourced 'facts' insinuating Chavez dictatorial tendencies

You can call it "facts" but that doesn't mean it's true.

[Poppyseedman]

17. A couple of links

With a new Venezuelan constitution adopted in 1999, the country renamed "the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela." There was a new presidential election that Chavez won, and allowed him to stay in power for six more years. On 30 July 2000 Hugo Chavez won reelection with 60% of the popular vote. The national election, the fifth in 18 months, pit Chavez against his 1992 military coup d'etat comrade, Francisco Arias Cardenas. Mr. Chavez' Patriotic Pole party also won a controlling majority in the country's new unicameral legislature. Chavez' six-year term runs through 2006, but Venezuela's constitution allows for a referendum at the mid-point of his term in August 2003.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/ops/venezuela.htm


While Arias may not be able to pull off a win on May 28, he could yet become the standard-bearer for a new opposition to take the place of Venezuela's discredited traditional parties. Meanwhile, Chavez' own political forces are expected to fall short of a majority in the new unicameral Congress. If that happens, the President will have to horse-trade to see his agenda through. Battles on everything from pension reforms to land rights may ensue. At least it would herald a return to democratic politics, something investors should certainly welcome.
http://www.businessweek.com/2000/00_20/b3681293.htm

[Judi Lynn]

18. What would lead you to believe he replaced the earlier legislators

himself? This would seem, somehow, to reflect the will of the VOTERS who elected them.

DU'ers know much better than to swallow that one.

[killbotfactory]

20. These changes happened well-before 2002

By a constitutional referendum.

You stated he made changes after the 2002 coup attempt, I was wondering what those were.

[Judi Lynn]

23. Your first source, globalsecurity.org is a defense think tank.

John Pike, the director of GlobalSecurity.org, a Washington-based defence think-tank, who reviewed some of the Lincoln Group stories, said he found them unconvincing. "Anybody who knows about propaganda knows the first rule of propaganda is that it should not look like propaganda," he said. "It's embarrassing enough that got caught ... but then for their product to be so cheesy ... It's just embarrassing."

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0330-04.htm

Your second source, represents American business interests, who favor the old pro-U.S. bidness interests. Distinctly anti-Chavez.

[anaxarchos]

49. For the record, unicameral legislatures...

...tend to be more democratic. The contemporary argument is that bi-cameralism is somehow designed to protect regional interest, etc. but the historical record is clear. Bi-cameralism grew out of the mistrust of popular elections (and "the people", themselves) and were designed to frustrate quick shifts in political power and particularly, popular power. The U.S. senate is typical. It is at least as powerful as the democratically elected house yet it is possible to get a majority there with less than 14% of the population. The Senate wasn't even popularly elected until the 1920's.

A move towards a unicameral legislature is likely to indicate a trend towards greater democracy, not less.

(BTW, if you accept the argument that bi-cameralism "protects minority rights", that is entirely true too... What is at issue is exactly which minority that might be...)

[IndianaGreen]

7. Venezuela's citizen-soldiers come mostly from the slums

Why shouldn't the poor, the workers, and the peasants defend their hard won gains under Chavez? If they didn't oppose an American invasion and/or coup, they will be the ones that will be murdered and tortured by a Venezuelan Pinochet.

I am tired of the rich and powerful killing the dispossed, let the elites be the ones on the receiving end for a change!

Patria o muerte! Venceremos!

[killbotfactory]

8. We all know you can't trust the poor!

They're niave and stupid (even after given free education by programs created by Chavez), that's why they're poor! Just ask any good-hearted republican. :sarcasm:

You'll also notice that in the media, whenever the government does something that benefits rich people, it's sound fiscal policy. Whenever the government does something to help the poor, it's "pandering" and/or it will bankrupt the country.

[Cha]

36. I would join that army

if I lived in Venezuela knowing what I know about the bushites. And it sounds like Chavez does his homework.

I was watching a tv show(NCIS) last night and it looked like they were going to have the villian be a Venezuellian Diplomat but it turned out to be one of our own career Navy Officers. I was so happy they didn't go down that path.

[corporate_mike]

9. Venezuelan population below poverty line : 67%

Not a smart way to spend the oil billions.

[Judi Lynn]

13. It was 80% before he was elected. Try to aim for honesty. n/t

[Judi Lynn]

42. Here's the 80% figure again from a new article posted yesterday.

Hugo Chavez has given them what they never had before. Think they won't fight to keep it and him? Wouldn't you in their place if the alternative was desperate poverty? That's what 80% of them had before, they're still poor and deprived, but everyone gets free: first rate health and dental care and education through as high a level as they can attain. They also get subsidized food, the legal right they never had before to own the land their homes were built on and lots more. The result is a significant improvement in the lives and welfare of the Venezuelan poor that comprise the great majority of the population and Chavez's base of support.
(snip)

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12788.htm

Excellent article posted by leftchick on another DU thread.

[ronnie624]

43. Good essay. A recommended read. n/t

[killbotfactory]

52. Obviously a dictator

And not democratic in the least...

:sarcasm:

[corporate_mike]

55. Venezuela is one of the five founding members of OPEC (cartel)

How can people not blame them for high oil prices?

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

58. Maybe he's trying to lower that poverty rate you seemed so

worried about a couple of posts above. After all higher oil prices means more money for them.

[killbotfactory]

21. What a waste of money...

"Let's go see what the money from the gringos and their SUVs bought. In barrios like this, there's a happy bounce. Chavez has finally tackled the health and education problems suffered by Venezuela's poor. He's imported 15,000 Cuban doctors and teachers, too. Before Chavez spread the oil wealth, 55% of the population lived in poverty. Now poverty is down by a third, and a million-and-a-half people have been taught to read."

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/04/12/140206

His supporters must be idiots! :eyes:

[rman]

45. At least now they have healthcare, education

and food - free for those who can't afford it.

That's a smart way spend the oil billions, as is spending some on defending it.

[sam sarrha]

14. once bush starts Nuking, his megalomania wont stop with Iran.. too many

shadows and voices to get rid of..

[Judi Lynn]

16. You're right. He'll need to send more people out to lose their lives

slaughtering complete strangers to prove he's no coward who tried to duck serving his country from his safe hide-out in the Champagne Brigade, T.A.N.G. That really makes sense, doesn't it?

[ladjf]

26. If he ever "nukes" Iran, there is going to be some serious hell to

pay on the part of the U.S. and I don't mean terrorism. I mean armed and capable Countries will gang up on us. We will get hit by incoming weapons and not even know the origin.

Remember that just because we've got enough nukes to kill everybody on the planet several times over and our future opponents only have enough to kill everybody once, we shouldn't assume that any form of victory would be possible for us.

The World will not let Bush just go from Country to Country, wiping them out with nukes. That can't happen.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

37. Nah. No need for any of that.

Confiscation of US assets worldwide for reparations would be enough.

[lovuian]

19. Getting ready for invasion... is right!!!

You got oil Bush wants it...

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

22. Arming and training the masses?

That's the clear sign of a tyrant.

:sarcasm:

[killbotfactory]

24. It's like our Second Amendment, AKA the Tyranny act

Power in the hands of the people leads to oppression, right?

[ladjf]

25. His idea makes some sense. However, if the "people" ever

get mad at him and want him out, this move could mean trouble.

[Zorra]

27. A trained guerrilla force for national defense is a brilliant idea.

Venezuela, with it's huge oil reserves, is a logical target for future invasion. Having a well equipped, trained guerilla resistance in place would be an enormous tactical deterrent to invasion. From what I've read about guerrilla forces, they are a very difficult and demoralizing enemy to fight. Look at the problems the PNAC forces are having against the quickly thrown together, ragtag guerrilla resistance in Iraq. And of course, there was Vietnam also.

If Chavez is successful in training a substantial guerrilla army for national defense, Mr. Danger will get his ass kicked if he decides to invade. And only Mr. Danger and the PNAC would be foolish enough to invade a country that already has a trained guerrilla resistance in place. All other world leaders would be sensible enough to not go there.

Chavez is an intelligent, socially aware foresighted leader.

The complete opposite of Commander Cuckoobananas.

[bemildred]

28. I understand it was popular here in the USA at one time ... nt

[tatertop]

29. Viva Chavez!!! He is just josh darn good for the world

[corporate_mike]

57. Chaves wants high oil prices (even more so than oil companies)

The petroleum sector dominates the economy, accounting for roughly a third of Venezuela's GDP, around 80% of export earnings, and more than half of government revenues. The oil sector operates through the government-owned Petroleos de Venezuela (PDVSA), which among other things owns the US-based distributor CITGO, which has 14,000 retail gasoline outlets in the United States.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuela

[Judi Lynn]

60. It's been that way long before Hugo Chavez became the President.

Or didn't you know that?

Seeing your stat, I did a very quick google and found the following:

1992 4/5 of all countryþs export earnings came from oil industry.

http://www.american.edu/TED/VENEZ.HTM

He wasn't elected as the Venzuelan President until 1998.

[Zorra]

63. The difference between oil companies and Chavez:

Eighty-two percent of Venezuelans think Chavez is doing a good job. That's more than twice the approval rating by Americans of Bush. He roundly defeated an attempt to recall him. So why is Washington lecturing Caracas?

"The government is making billions of dollars and spending them on houses, education, medical care," notes CNN. And--gasp--people's lives are improving.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/eo20060418a2.html

Chavez: Our oil reserve does not belong to Mr. Bush
snip----
"The United States government would very much like to keep all our oil for itself," Chavez said. "But our oil reserve does not belong to Mr. Bush. The oil belongs to the Venezuelan people."

http://www.energybulletin.net/4656.html

High Oil Profit Leads to Venezuela's Plan to Subsidize Heating in United States

The plea came in a letter from a group of U.S. senators to nine big oil companies: With huge increases in winter heating bills expected, the letter read, we want you to donate some of your record profits to help low-income people cover those costs.

But the lawmakers received only one response. It came from Citgo Petroleum Corp., a company controlled by the Venezuelan government of President Hugo Chavez, a nettlesome adversary of the United States who has accused the Bush administration of plotting to assassinate him and invade his oil-rich country.

The chief executive of Citgo wrote to the senators that the company is "studying potential plans for ongoing, sustained assistance programs in the United States with the goal of lifting our neighbors in need to an improved quality of life." Citgo is planning to announce today that it will provide discounted heating oil this winter to many low-income residents of Massachusetts, Venezuelan officials said, adding that the plan was in the works before the senators sought help. The company also plans to offer similar aid in New York.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/21/AR2005112101800.html

Chavez gives some of the oil money back to the people of his country.

Oil companies keep all their money.

[BrotherBuzz]

30. One would assume the NRA would applaud this action....

Chirp, chirp, chirp......

[Bacchus39]

31. Colombia has an "auto defense force" so did Guatemala

not exactly a very stellar history.

[Bridget Burke]

32. I know the US is helping para-militaries in Colombia.

Tell me more about Guatemala.

[Bacchus39]

33. Guatemala trained organized community auto defense forces

Before I start though, its worth mentioning that the Colombian paramilitaries are disbanding. The rebels, however, are not looking to make peace.


the URNG (Unidad Revolucionaria Nacional Guatemalteca) was the biggest rebel group I believe. never all that big but mostly made up of indigenous peasants. the military dictatorships of the 70s and 80s created autodefense forces in these smaller communities to "protect" the population against the rebels. the most infamous leader of Guatemala at least in modern times is General Efrain Rios Montt. He is still alive and actually ran for president last go around.

the Defense forces including the "auto-defense" forces were responsible for tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of deaths. Mostly Mayan indians.

I believe the low level civil war was ended in 1996.

[Bridget Burke]

34. Another word might be "death squad"....

During the darkest years of the conflict, the United States backstopped the bloodletting with moral and material support. Recent confirmation of the U.S. role came in late February 1999, when the independent Historical Review Commission released a well-publicized report that named the United States (in particular the CIA) as a collaborator in Guatemala's dirty war against dissidents and peasants.

President Clinton embarked on a tour of Central America shortly thereafter, and paused to say this in Guatemala: "For the United States, it is important that I state clearly that support for military forces and intelligence units which engaged in violence and widespread repression was wrong, and the United States must not repeat that mistake."

www.parascope.com/ds/papertrail/paperTrailSpring1999.htm

Without US support, how will Chavez's forces meet those standards?

[Bacchus39]

35. oh I am sure they can find a way

give peasants guns and authority and there is no telling what they can do.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

38. As opposed to proper patricians, who aren't like those savage brutes

right?

[Bacchus39]

39. again, this is what the government did in Guatemala for example

now I guess in Guatemala there was at least an opposing force who did in fact launch attacks. So there was at least a pretense for the Auto-defense Forces in the first place.

Chavez is preparing for an imaginary invasion by a non-existent foe. Mark my word though, Chavez will declare victory after Bush completes his term or leaves in disgrace prior to its completion.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

40. It is imaginary BECAUSE he is preparing.

Si vis pacem para bellum.

[saigon68]

41. bella matribus detestata

That was my mom

[ronnie624]

44. Your logic is quite faulty.

How exactly do you associate the establishment of a militia in Venezuela with the history of an "auto defense force" in Colombia or Guatemala? Do you truly see nothing wrong with ascribing to President Chavez the past activities of fascist governments in other countries? I've noticed you adopting the same tactic in other threads. It is very dishonest and more than a little irritating.

[Bacchus39]

48. all are civilian defense forces

I do not believe the defense forces in Guatemala or Colombia were originally set up as death squads or executioners either. in many cases, that is what they turned out to be. although, in Colombia's case, the forces were set up to counteract the FARC. while in Guatemala they were for community "protection". somewhat of a difference there but their abusiveness and impunity often ended in the same tragic result.

Venezuela is setting up a civilian force too. a little caution is in order I believe rather than just blind cheerleading.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

50. You don't seem to be a big fan of the 2nd Amendment.

Civilians with guns = bad? Or worse, civilians with guns = bad only if they're trained?

[killbotfactory]

53. Civilians with guns are bad if they are poor

You know, because the poor are easily misled fools, why else would they be rallying around the brutal Dictator of Caracas?

[Bridget Burke]

56. And if their officers aren't trained in the School of the Americas...

Or whatever they are calling it now.

[Virginia Dare]

59. The U.S. government's problem with Chavez...

has nothing to do with whether he's a dictator or not, as evidenced by the coming out party we just hosted for our good friend Mr. Hu.

The problem we have with him is that he's a populist, who is not willing to toe the corporate capitalist line.

He's also paying down his world debt which is a big no-no.

[Judi Lynn]

62. Info. from Human Rights Watch claims Colombian paramilitaries

were involved in a plot to assassinate Venezuelan officials, including Hugo Chavez. I posted this earlier in a Colombia thread, and I'm convinced it should be added to this thread, as well:

Colombia: Uribe Must End Attacks on Media
by Human Rights Watch (reposted) Wednesday, Apr. 19, 2006 at 6:35 AM
(New York, April 17, 2006) - Instead of attacking the news media for reporting allegations of criminal activity in a Colombian intelligence agency, President Álvaro Uribe should ensure a full investigation of the charges, Human Rights Watch said today.

Over the last two weeks, major news media have extensively reported on allegations of paramilitary infiltration of the Colombian executive branch's intelligence agency (Departamento Administrativo de Seguridad, or DAS), targeted killings of labor union leaders and academics, and electoral fraud in the 2002 presidential elections. President Uribe has reacted by charging the news media with being dishonest and malicious, and with harming Colombian democratic institutions.
(snip)

According to García's statements to prosecutors and journalists, for approximately three years the DAS worked in extremely close contact with several paramilitary groups, particularly the "Northern Block" led by paramilitary commander "Jorge 40." He claims that these links were established by Jorge Noguera, then director of the DAS and currently the Colombian Consul in Milan. Among García's many detailed allegations, which have received extensive coverage in Colombia, are:

* Extrajudicial executions of labor union leaders: García states that during this period the DAS provided the paramilitaries with lists of labor union leaders and academics, many of whom were subsequently threatened or killed.

* Electoral fraud: According to García, Noguera collaborated with the paramilitaries to carry out massive electoral fraud when he was Uribe's campaign director in Magdalena state during the 2002 presidential elections. García alleges that the fraud resulted in 300,000 additional votes for Uribe. A similar plan, he claims, had also been implemented in congressional elections in several northern states. If proven, his allegations would confirm recent studies attributing highly unusual voting patterns in the 2002 congressional elections to electoral fraud.

* Political assassination in Venezuela: García recently said in an interview that the DAS collaborated with paramilitaries in a plot to assassinate several Venezuelan leaders, including President Hugo Chavez and a prosecutor, Danilo Anderson. More than 100 alleged paramilitaries were arrested near the Venezuelan capital of Caracas, and a few months later, Anderson was killed. Based on testimony by one of those arrested, Venezuelan authorities have charged former DAS director Noguera with knowledge of the alleged plot.
(snip/...)

http://www.indybay.org/news/2006/04/1816326.php

[Yadira]

64. I'm venezuelan and ussually I make no comments here, but

since you are talking about Chavez i think I have the right tell you all what I think. (please forgiveme if my grammar is wrong, but spanish is my 1st language)

One thing i want to say before i start telling you what i think: saying that everyone in venezuela agrees with Chavez because he was elected by the people is like saying all americans agree with the war in Irak because Bush was elected (and reelected!!!)


I'm not pro-Bush (I think the guy is nuts and i can't belive he got reelected) but i definately don't like Chavez. I'm not rich (I tell you this because pro-chavez people always say that only rich people are against him).

Why I don't like chavez? well, 1st of all he doen't like me. I feel insulted every time i see his weekly tv show "Alo presidente!" (Hello president!). He ussually calls "traitor" or "antipatriotic" anyone that disagrees with him. I disagree with him but i do love my country.

Do you understand that when i see all this people that Chavez is arming i don't see a threat against USA but a threat to me and my family? Do you know that i was in a protest that ended in gunshots and that people died there.... and the people that was shooting (captured in videos) is free because it was "selfdefense"?

Do you know that the goverment released some numbers saying that unemployment was reduced by chavez, and whe you check it out you can see that they changed the concept of employment so people that work only 1 hour a week are considered as having an steady job?

Do you know that the "consejo electoral" (the organism that regulates the elections) is ruled by people that are openly pro-chavez? even going to public reunions of his party (MVR)?

I read a thread here about that producer that was asked to leave when he asked a question to the chinese president, and you all think is againt "free press". Do you know that to most of the official acts only the goverment tv chanel "venezolana de televisión" is allowed in?

Do you know that a popular way of protest in venezuela called "cacerolazo" (banging empty pots and cans to make noise, so it represents the hunger of the people) is now a "criminal act"? a "violent act"?

Sorry I don't have links right now (it's almost 2:00am here and i'm a little sleepy and all i can find right now is spanish. But i'll try to post something later.... if you are really interested please try to find some info about this in enlish) but i had to write this because reading all your comments and those "sarcasm" gifs almost made me cry in desperation. Because what I feel is real. I do feel we are in the wrong road when i see al those posters in the streets (and there are a lot) that say "rumbo al nuevo socialismo" ("in the way to the new socialism").

My situation (both economic and social) has gone so bad that i'm actually considering moving away. And I really don't want to, because even when chavistas say "if you don't like it, go away" I love my country.

btw, someone in a post here said that Chavez is not so bad because he gives free medical care and food to the people. Do you know that it has always been like this? When I was little, children got free uniforms, and food... and i was born in a public hospital... I went to a public university (is one of the best in latin america). This is nothing new. He just likes to change the names (usually to "Misión" something) and say he just created the idea :/

Thanks for reading this, tho it probably won't change your opinions.

Yadira Camacho (ci 14121186) and I tell you this because according to the new venezuelan press law (ley de comunicaciones) no comment should be made unless the person identifies correctly.

[Yadira]

65. Interesting link about Chavez

I finally found one in english.
Is about the "Lista Tascón" (Tascón's List. Tascón is a pro-chavez assemblyman. Maisanta is the name of the software that's being distributed, nothing more than a database reader). PLEASE read this.

http://www.vcrisis.com/index.php?content=pr/200512061532

The tascon's list is a list of the people that signed the petition for the referendum some years ago. He "borrowed" the database from the "consejo electoral" and made it public on the net. Now that list has expanded, and anyone can look at it and know if you signed for the referendum, if you voted, if you participate in any of chavez's missions and groups, etc. A lot of people have been denied jobs because they appear in the list as anti-chavez (some friends of mine did lose a lot of job offers because "they weren't patriotic enough")
I was asked if i signed the petition for the referedum and if i participated in any of chavez's groups when i went to renovate my c.i. (our national i.d.) I lied my teeth out and i got my id, i know of people that didn't.

Do you think this is democratic?

[Judi Lynn]

68. Your source is operated by a rabid anti-Chavist, Aleksander Boyd

Looking for a quick summary of his value as a spokeman, I found this remark in a google search. Venezuela-watching DU'ers are very aware of his record. Pathetic:

Comments made by fellow Aleksander Boyd are really not surprising knowing that his organisation known as Proveo and affiliation with political party Sumate - right wing of course - , clearly represents the voice of those who never had to deal with poverty and misery in HIS country. Well living in London and trying to prove that the CIA was never ever involved - directly or indirectly - in the attempted coup against Chavez in 2002 must keep him busy but it is vital to note that putting Venezuela in the same basket as North Korea and Syria just reflects the poor level of decision making policies made in the Pentagone. After decades of non stop corruption from governements of Carlos Andres Perez, Jaime Lusinchi, Luis Herrera and others Caldera it is really refreshing to see something new and constructive, whether people like it or not. Of course a government is going to be criticized, of course not ALL problems can be resolved but people see the effort put into it, people see changes that are real. And when you have an opposition that does not even appeal to the people because they do not even relate with their everyday life, the opposition gets frustrated, divided and lacks complete leadership.
(snip)

http://blogs.washingtonpost.com/earlywarning/2005/11/venezuela_fumbl.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Who is Aleksander Boyd?

Boyd is the person who operates a very aggressive anti-Chavez website called Vcrisis.com, based in London, England.

On more than one occasion, Boyd openly called for the use of violence to oust Chavez, Venezuela's democratically-elected President. So did Carlos Andres Perez (CAP), a former Venezuelan president who was (in the past) convicted of embezzlement and who is now hiding (in the USA) from Venezuelan law on additional criminal charges.

For the years that I have been aware of Vcrisis.com and Boyd, he has done nothing but condemn Chavez and verbally menace anyone who does not side with the violent and criminal Venezuelan anti-Chavez movement.

It will soon become a crime in the UK to incite people to use violence ... something that Boyd is quite accustomed to doing. If Boyd gets arrested in the UK for having incited people to use violence in order to "get rid of Chavez" (terrorism), he will probably be shipped back to Venezuela, where he will probably also face the courts for inciting people to use violence.

First, I will present readers with evidence supporting what I state about Boyd. Later in the article, I will present additional information about him that will make VHeadline.com readers fall of their chairs!

In October 2004 Boyd published an article entitled "Venezuela‚s opposition: to rebel or to die under Chavez‚ boot" in which he states the following:

"Paraphrasing Gerry Adams; 'sometimes violence is the only means to achieve goals' The more the time elapses, the blunter the constitutional violations of the regime, the more I become convinced that the sole way of effectively opposing Chavez is through violence ...

Hence there is a solution: to disown the regime for its violations to democratic values, principles and guarantees and encroachment of human rights are evident. Said stance should go in hand with violence, as Gerry Adams pointed out, if some sort of consensus and respect from Chavez and his thugs is to be achieved."
(snip/...)
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/70618

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More on Alesander Boyd:
Aleksander Boyd lives in London. He serves as one example of the unscrupulous opposition and their attempts to use the internet to malign President Chavez and those who want to see democracy and the rule of law prevail in Venezuela. This self-styled, obsessive firebrand runs a vanity-site called VCrisis, on which he misrepresents and maligns the current Venezuelan government.

For examples, Aleksander Boyd attempts to portray a linkage between President Chavez and terrorism: "The link between the Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez and terrorism seem to be a recurring theme". He is fond of using "red-baiting" methods to portray Chavez as a "Marxist". On January 8, he wrote: "The Marxist government of Venezuela expropriated its first cattle ranch this morning ..." - a clear attempt to misinform the international community about a procedure in which the Venezuelan government exercises its legal right to appropriate land much in the same way as the U.S. uses land for the good of the majority under its laws of eminent-domain. Boyd also publishes articles written by or for the minority opposition which often resort to unsupported rants about day to day life in this South American nation. For example, Boyd published one recently by Gustavo Coronel in which the author states:

"The Venezuelan day to day is a huge soap opera, never a dull moment. The antics of the revolutionary regime offer abundant opportunities for entertainment although much of what is happening is also very tragic."

Today, in the article below, VHeadline published an article by Carlos Herrera in which he makes a public call to the British Intelligence Services to investigate Boyd's antics in the U.K. and suggests that the Venezuelan ambassador to the U.K. pressure British authorities "to act in strict compliance with the law". Boyd has responded to his critics by launching a media campaign on his vanity site to malign VHeadline and others. For some readers, all this may seem to amount to little more than a schoolyard fight between two internet sites. We view it as an important example of how the internet is being used to attack the most authentic example of real democracy in the western hemisphere, arguably in the world. - Les Blough, Editor
(snip/)

http://www.axisoflogic.com/cgi-bin/exec/view.pl?archive=85&num=14955

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One of DU's finest posters informs us "Don't forget he's also a proud Freeper who posts there under his own name."
Thanks, again, to that great Guy!

Here is a photo of the world-famous prostitute/would-be right-wing reporter, Jeff Gannon at a Free Republic rally:



Freepers are known throughout the country for their fabulous pro-_Bush, pro-Iraq war rallies, at which you may expect to see upwards of several people in attendance!

[Yadira]

70. But the list exist, my friend, and Chavez doesn't deny it

If you don't trust it, ok. But what i can say is what i see with my own eyes. And that list exist. And I DO have friends that have being denied of jobs because they appear as anti-chavez in that list. I'm really sorry this is all I can give you.
And above all this.... they DON'T DENY IT EXIST. Chavez talks about it all the time T_T

Yadira Camacho.

[Judi Lynn]

71. It would be appropriate if you took some time out from trying to convince

DU'ers of your anti-Chavez message, and located some references from sites OTHER THAN RABID ANTI-CHAVEZ SITES.

We've had a couple of other DU visitors who claim to be living in Venezuela, as well, who are intensely anti-Chavez.

The poster I trust 100% is the man who was posting here FROM CARACAS at the very time the coup was underway, and he kept us informed almost around the clock on what was happening there, in detail. He supports Hugo Chavez strongly, and I'm certain I believe him beyond all doubt, when he posts here, as he has for the last several years. We have seen enough of his character to know he's no liar, nor is he a right-winger pretending to be a Venezuelan citizen.

[Yadira]

72. And how can I prove that I'm who I say?

My name is Yadira Camacho Omaña, daughter of José Camacho Fernández and Zoraida Omaña. I'm 26 (birhdate 24/9/1979). I went to school to Colegio Teresiano - La Castellana (a private school, but i recivieed economic help because i couldn't afford it). University: Universidad Simón Bolívar. Electronic Engineering. Do you need any more info? Por supuesto que vivo en Caracas y hablo español, no soy ninguna person haciéndose pasar por venezolana. Soy caraqueña, criollita. El alma llanera es mi himno y bailo tambores como cualquiera. Ask your venezuelan friend to translate it.

I don't have a link in english but this a synopsis about what Tascón himself says about the list. He badmouths here Súmate and a lot of anti-chavez people, so you won't say he's an anti-chavez rabid, right? He says he got the list because Sumate selled it to him for a little money (unos reales). So as you can see, this man, a pro-chavez assemblyman, does not deny the list exists.
He says it's not a crime to distribute the list, but it's a crime to do anything againts the people that appears in the list. But noone from the gov has done anything against it. Chavez asked tascon to remove the list from the net, but it can still be found. And, I'll say this again, I DO KNOW PEOPLE (not know of people who knows of someone who knows of someone...) but close friends who were denied of jobs because they were in the list. Not an excuse for not getting the job, they were actually said "Porque no eres un patriota. Un bolivariano" (Because you're not a patriot. a bolivarian)

http://www.analitica.com/va/sintesis/nacionales/4434018.asp

I edited this after reading the arcticle again. quote "dijo en entrevista concedida en Venezolana de Televisión." ( (he) said in an interview in Venezolana de Televisión) Venezolana de television (or VTV) is a public tv channel that belongs to the venezuelan goverment. Would you call this as "rabid anti-chavez" too? see, they don't deny the list exist.

[Yadira]

73. and, because i don't like chavez i must be a liar, not a real venezuelan?

So if I come here and say I love Chavez and I think he's the greatest president would you trust me? Isn't that a little bias? There's absolutly no way that a real venezuelan wouldn't like what chavez says and does?
Well, then I'll talk here, everyday if I have to, because it's really frustrating being called a liar just because i don't think like you do. It' almost 4 am and i'm so angry right now that i can't sleep. I though that since this is DEMOCRATIC underground people would be more open to someoneelses toughts.

[Judi Lynn]

66. In case anyone has forgotten it's likely you will see phoney articles

appearing all over the place penned by people with a political agenda presenting themselves as ordinary citizens, here's a reminder of what kind of business we know Republican pResidents have been incorporating into their own special styles while running the country:

Otto Reich

Reich is a right-wing Cuban-American who, under Reagan, ran the Office for Public Diplomacy. It reported in theory to the State Department, but Reich was shown by congressional investigations to report directly to Reagan's National Security Aide, Colonel Oliver North, in the White House.

As head of the Reagan administration's Orwellian Office of Public Diplomacy, Reich ran "Operation 'White Propaganda.'" The OPD planted stories and op-eds in the U.S. media that were ghostwritten by Reich's operatives or assigned to "independent" experts. Tainted articles ran in the Wall Street Journal, New York Times and Washington Post, among other outlets.

His office also engaged in such dirty tricks as charging that reporters in Nicaragua were paid for their anti-U.S. coverage with the services of Sandinista-supplied prostitutes. See the report on the National Security Archive web site.

This is the man President George Bush tasked to be his key policy-maker for Latin America. The visits by Venezuelans plotting the coup against President Chavez, including Carmona himself, began, say sources, 'several months ago', and continued until weeks before the putsch. The visitors were received at the White House by - guess who - Otto Reich. The US administration was not only aware the coup was about to take place, but had sanctioned it, presuming it to be destined for success.

Reich has close ties to Venezuela, having been made ambassador to Caracas in 1986. His appointment was contested both by Democrats in Washington and political leaders in the Latin American country. The objections were overridden as Venezuela sought access to the US oil market.

On the day Carmona claimed power, Reich summoned ambassadors from Latin America and the Caribbean to his office. He said the removal of Chavez was not a rupture of democratic rule, as he had resigned and was 'responsible for his fate'. He said the US would support the Carmona government.

Washington’s celebration proved short-lived, however, as the Venezuelan junta disintegrated in barely 24 hours under the pressure of mass protests and conflicts within the military command.

Reich's recess appointment to the Department of State has lapsed becuase the Senate did not confirm him. He has been given another post as "Special Adviser" to the Secretary of State. One finds it hard to see an intelligent person like Colin Powell needing any advice at all from Reich. The attitude of Secretary of State Powell to any future Reich appointment requiring Senate confirmation will tell the world much more about how far Colin Powell is prepare to sacrifice principle in the service of his Commander-in-Chief, than it will about Reich.
(snip)

http://www.eurolegal.org/useur/uspubpol.htm

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~snip~
He ran a government office which engaged in "prohibited, covert propaganda activities" within the U.S to support the "contra" fighters against the Sandinista Government of Nicaragua as part of the Iran-Contra scandal under President Reagan; this was "beyond the range of acceptable agency public information activities," and in violation of "a restriction on the State Dept.’s annual appropriations prohibiting the use of federal funds for publicity or propaganda purposes not authorized by Congress," according to the Republican-appointed Comptroller-General of the U.S.
(snip)

http://www.afrocubaweb.com/ottoreich.htm

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~snip~
Over the past two weeks, the Spanish-language version of the Miami Herald, El Nuevo Herald, has run a three-part series on the growing threat of organizations and individuals that support the Venezuelan Government from within the United States.<3> The articles, written by right-wing Cuban-American journalist Casto Ocando, who has written dozens of fervently anti-Chávez articles for that same paper, pretend to expose a network of Chávez supporters in universities and progressive groups that, at the appeal of the journalist, should be considered “foreign agents” or almost “terrorist” by the U.S. Government and public. One of the articles even includes a map of where such pro-Chávez groups are located in the U.S., with a large image of President Chávez in military fatigues imposed on top, as though the author were exposing some clandestine terrorist network secretly operating within the United States.

The groups and institutions mentioned by the Herald that form part of the “sinister” pro-Chávez network in the U.S. include Harvard University, New York University, Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), Global Exchange, Global Women’s Strike, San Romero de las Americas Church in New York and its Pastor, Luis Barrios, the catholic missionary Maryknoll group, the author of this article (yes, me), and several Bolivarian Circles, small community-based organizations that support Chávez modeled from the Venezuelan grassroots organizations that carry the same name. Sounds like a scary group!

I am sure that thoughts of Maryknoll missioners, prestigious university professors, Harlem-based Pastors and the environmentally-friendly Global Exchange all lauding a foreign government that is investing its oil wealth in improving health care, education, housing and raising salaries, has driven fear into the hearts and minds of ordinary Americans.<4>

Media-CIA Relationship Exposed

But maybe the author’s intent and not the content of the article should cause alarm. During the publishing of the three-part series on the growing threat of pro-Chávez supporters in the U.S., journalist Casto Ocando appeared on a local Miami television show on Channel 22, discussing such “threats” in detail alongside fellow Cuban-American F鬩x Rodríguez, ex-CIA Officer responsible for the assassination of Ernesto “Che” Guevara and who was also an Iran-Contra operative.<5> Just days earlier, this expert in CIA assassination techniques used against foreign leaders, F鬩x Rodríguez, was interviewed on that same program, “Maria Elvira Confronta” (Maria Elvira Confronts), providing details about an assassination plot in motion against President Hugo Chávez.<6> Ocando and Rodríguez’s association merely points to a collaborative effort between CIA and news media, a relationship established decades ago by the United States Government.
(snip)

http://www.handsoffvenezuela.org/us_aggression_propaganda_golinger.htm

[Yadira]

69. By this you mean that Chavez' civilian army is a lie?

Because is not (i live in venezuela and i know what i see in the news, not any chanel, but the goverment's tv chanel, so it's not "anti-chavez propaganda"). I don't doubt there's a lot of articles that are not at all sincere and objective. An that sometimes they have a hidden plan. But that happens on both sides, or do you belive all anti-chavez articles are "political propaganda" and the pro-chavez not? what proof do you have of this?
And, in case there's any doubt, I'm not "presenting myself as ordinary citizen" I'm an ordinary Venezuelan.

Yadira Camacho.