NY Times: A Religious Push Against Gay Unions

[ruggerson]

Interesting that they know it won't pass and they're pushing it solely as a cynical, political ploy.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/24/washington/24catholic.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

By DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK
Published: April 24, 2006
WASHINGTON, April 23 — About 50 prominent religious leaders, including seven Roman Catholic cardinals and about a half-dozen archbishops, have signed a petition in support of a constitutional amendment blocking same-sex marriage.

Organizers of the petition said it was in part an effort to revive the groundswell of opposition to same-sex marriage that helped bring many conservative voters to the polls in some pivotal states in 2004. The signers include many influential evangelical Protestants, a few rabbis and an official of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

But both the organizers and gay rights groups said what was striking about the petition was the direct involvement by high-ranking Roman Catholic officials, including 16 bishops. Although the church has long opposed same-sex unions, and the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops had previously endorsed the idea of a constitutional amendment banning such unions, it was evangelical Protestants who generally led the charge when the amendment was debated in 2004.

"The personal involvement of bishops and cardinals is significantly greater this time than in 2004," said Patrick Korten, a spokesman for the Knights of Columbus, a lay Catholic group.

(more)

[Maven]

1. Another day, another attack

I'm starting to get worn out. Don't these people have their own LIVES?

[marmar]

2. Let's see...

We've got a madman in the White House threatening a nuclear war, gas is close to $3 a gallon, the debt is about to sink us into economic ruin, the middle class is shrinking faster than the polar ice caps, public education is in a crisis...and these alleged "men of God" are going to help their country by supporting the writing of discrimination into the constitution.
:argh:
America the not-so-beautiful sometimes. :cry:

[ninkasi]

15. You've put things into perspective, marmar

I agree completely. We have real, and dangerous challenges right now. Things are so frightening, with our government becoming more and more dictatorial, with the ever increasing threat of nuclear war looming, and people have nothing better to do than to legalize hatred and discrimination against members of our society.

I guess the current wave of bigotry and hatred is just a symptom of how warped the human mind can be. Instead of letting people be who they were born to be, letting them lead their own lives, these warped, narrow minded clerics are adding even more fuel to the fires of hatred that is threatening to consume the world today.

[LeftHander]

21. Time to start picketing churches....

I say picketing on Sunday when the followers of these churches come to worship. Nothing like being told you are a puprosely discriminating against another person....

Most people do not really want to be like that. But the zealots that lead then are counting on them to go along with waht they say.

If religion chooses to attack I say attack back with the sting of guilt...something that many of these faiths are all about. The people that succumb to many of these faiths will only react when they feel guilty.

[Critters2]

30. But please picket the RIGHT churches

My church is "open and affirming", which means we support gay unions. We're not alone (though almost). So just be in front of churches that deserve it, is all I'm asking.

[bananas]

3. I though it said "Gary Union" when I first read the title

you know - Gary Union and the U.S. Bonds

[arwalden]

4. One Might Think Those Seven Roman Catholic Cardinals...

... could find more pressing issues... closer to home... in their OWN BACK YARD... that was more deserving of their attention and concern. Wouldn't one?

[napi21]

5. You should have listened to Bernie Ward this morning.

on his program "God Talk" he was discussing the Catholic Church's argument banning gay couples from adopting children from their adoption agencies. Some fundie called him to argue how evil gay relationships were. I can't do Bernie any justice in trying to explain how he dealt with her, but he got her to deny every one of her or 6 reasons why it was evil!

Bernie is one of the best debaters on the radio!

[Erika]

6. OK, gay issues again reign for the religious crats.

Now what is the stand on death penalites? Catholics are running so schizoid.

[beam me up scottie]

7. It's not "the groundswell of opposition to same-sex marriage"

they're trying to revive.

It's the Dark Ages.

[radfringe]

12. a few weeks ago

NPR had a short story about this. They interviewed one woman who was against Gay marriage/unions.

The woman described marriage (hetrosexual) as being a "special privilege"

I was under the impression "SPECIAL PRIVILEGES" is the argument against equal rights for gays/lesbians

This past week - my partner asked one of the legal-aide assistants to look over our documents regarding health/hospitalization proxies and other papers giving us each authority to make decisions for the other in case of emergencies.

the legal-aide asked "why do you need this?"

my partner: because we are not recognized as a family, and should anything happen we need to be able to make decisions for the other person.

legal-aid: That's ridiculous - you've been together a long time, there shouldn't be a problem. The law should be changed to allow that.

my partner: yes, but until the special privilege of marriage is changed, we need to have these papers signed and all legal. Even then there may be problems

[Placebo]

8. There is nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come.

And one day, gays and lesbians will have the same rights in this country as their heterosexual counterparts.

It's inevitable.

Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow—but someday.

And then we'll all look back on these days with shock, horror, and shame.

[Skittles]

9. I wish the religious would stick to their fairy tales

and stay out of real life

[Arugula Latte]

31. If you'll pardon the expression: Amen.

Why can't they just be happy with their little silly stories and fables playing in their heads and leave everyone else the fuck alone?

:grr:

[Up2Late]

10. I guess it's time to change the subject again. Someone should do a...

..."Billy Madison" (or was it "Happy Gilmore?") to them. Remember in one of those movies, Adam Sandler gets right up in someones face an yells at the top of his lungs

"SHUT UP!!!!!"

:mad:

BTW: here's a link to the same article in the "International Herald Tribune" for anyone who prefers not to give the NY Times marketing department their data: <http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/04/23/news/catholic.php#>

[merwin]

11. Just in time for the runup to the elections.

[Solon]

13. Tax Exemption revoked for the Catholic Church please...

This is NOT allowed according to the IRS regulations for 501(c) organizations, which churches are most definately ARE. Not only are these Bigotted assholes we are talking about here, these are assholes who violate the law, make'em pay taxes if they want to get political. Fucking assholes hiding behind the damned cross!

[salin]

14. One would think that some of those being "appealed" to would

start to grow cynical as well... that these only get pushed in the months before a critical election where republicans are behind. However, I am guessing that some are being too busy being whipped up into a furor to notice and become cynical.

[LostinVA]

16. Hmmm... can we say "tax-free status" boys and girls?

I knew we could.

[BR_Parkway]

17. We really need to organize a religion around being gay - the tax

free status and legal protections would be wonderful.

[megatherium]

18. Time to start outing Catholic prelates. nt

[xchrom]

19. 50 prominent tapeworms quivering in fear

that they might lose their sucking action grip on the minds of the populace.

[Nomen Tuum]

20. I support a Constitutional amendment banning child molesting priests.

It's fair game!

[Ian David]

22. List of signatories

The Right Reverend Keith L. Ackerman, SSC
Episcopal Bishop of Quincy, IL

Daniel Akin, Ph.D.
President, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary

The Right Reverend Peter H. Beckwith
Episcopal Bishop of Springfield, IL

Bishop Charles E. Blake
First Assistant Presiding Bishop, Church of God in Christ (COGIC)

The Most Reverend Charles J. Chaput, O.F.M. Cap.
Roman Catholic Archbishop of Denver, CO

Charles W. Colson
Founder and Chairman, Prison Fellowship

His Eminence Archbishop Demetrios of America
Primate of the Greek Orthodox Church in America

James C. Dobson, Ph.D.
Founder and Chairman, Focus on the Family

David Dockery, Ph.D.
President, Union University, Jackson, Tennessee
Chairman, Board of Directors, Council for Christian Colleges and Universities

The Right Reverend Robert Duncan
Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Pittsburgh, PA
Moderator of the Anglican Communion Network

His Eminence Edward Cardinal Egan
Roman Catholic Archbishop of New York, NY

His Eminence Francis Cardinal George, OMI
Roman Catholic Archbishop of Chicago, IL

Timothy George, Th.D.
Dean, Beeson Divinity School of Samford University
Executive Editor of Christianity Today

The Most Reverend Jose H. Gomez
Roman Catholic Archbishop of San Antonio, TX

The Reverend Ted Haggard
President, National Association of Evangelicals

The Reverend Dr. Jack W. Hayford
President, The International Church of the Foursquare Gospel
Founder/Chancellor, The King's College and Seminary
Pastor Emeritus, The Church On The Way

The Most Blessed Herman
Archbishop of Washington and New York
Primate, The Orthodox Church in America

The Right Reverend John W. Howe
Episcopal Bishop of Central Florida

Bishop Harry R. Jackson
Senior Pastor, Hope Christian Church, Lanham, MD
President, High Impact Leadership Coalition

His Eminence William Cardinal Keeler
Roman Catholic Archbishop of Baltimore, MD

The Reverend Dr. D. James Kennedy
Chancellor, Knox Theological Seminary, Fort Lauderdale, FL

The Reverend Dr. Gerald B. Kieschnick
President, The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod

Dr. Richard Land
President, Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission, Southern Baptist Convention

Rabbi Daniel Lapin
President, Toward Tradition

Steve W. Lemke, Ph.D.
Provost, New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary

The Reverend Dr. Peter A. Lillback
Senior Pastor, Proclamation Presbyterian Church, Bryn Mawr, PA
President, Westminster Theological Seminary

The Reverend Herbert H. Lusk, II
Senior Pastor, Greater Exodus Baptist Church
President & CEO, People For People, Inc

His Eminence Roger Cardinal Mahony
Roman Catholic Archbishop of Los Angeles, CA

His Eminence Theodore Cardinal McCarrick
Roman Catholic Archbishop of Washington, DC

The Most Reverend Robert C. Morlino
Roman Catholic Bishop of Madison, WI

The Most Reverend John Myers
Roman Catholic Archbishop of Newark, NJ

The Most Reverend Joseph F. Naumann
Roman Catholic Archbishop of Kansas City, KS

Elder Russell M. Nelson
Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

The Reverend Richard John Neuhaus
Editor in chief of FIRST THINGS

The Most Reverend John C. Nienstedt
Roman Catholic Bishop of New Ulm, MN

Rabbi David Novak
J. Richard and Dorothy Shiff Chair of Jewish Studies,
Professor of the Study of Religion and Professor of Philosophy, University of Toronto
Visiting Professor of Religion, Princeton University (2006)

The Most Reverend Thomas J. Olmsted
Roman Catholic Bishop of Phoenix, AZ

His Eminence Sean Patrick Cardinal O'Malley, O.F.M., Cap.
Roman Catholic Archbishop of Boston, MA

Rev. Dr. Luciano Padilla, Jr.
Senior Pastor, Bay Ridge Christian Center, Brooklyn, NY

Dr. Paige Patterson
President, Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary

His Eminence Justin Cardinal Rigali
Roman Catholic Archbishop of Philadelphia, PA

The Reverend Eugene F. Rivers, III
Founder and President, The Seymour Institute for Advanced Christian Studies

The Reverend Samuel Rodriguez, Jr.
President, National Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference
National Hispanic Association of Evangelicals

Rabbi Meir Soloveichik
Associate Rabbi, Congregation Kehilath Jeshurun of Manhattan, NY

The Most Reverend John G. Vlazny
Roman Catholic Archbishop of Portland, OR

The Reverend Dr. Rick Warren
Founding Pastor, The Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, CA
Author, The Purpose-Driven Life

Rabbi Tzvi Hersh Weinreb
Executive Vice President, Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America

The Reverend David Welch
Executive Director, U.S. Pastor Council

The Most Reverend John W. Yanta
Roman Catholic Bishop of Amarillo, TX

Malcolm B. Yarnell, III, Ph.D.
Director, Center for Theological Research
Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary

(link to hate site deliberately omitted)

[CatholicEdHead]

36. Why am I not suprised about Nienstedt

"The Most Reverend John C. Nienstedt
Roman Catholic Bishop of New Ulm, MN"

He is the most radically conservative (of the blind Republican kind) Bishop in Minnesota. His pastoral skills are pathethic, he is nothing except cross all the t's and dot all the i's. His "pastoral" letters are a revolving joke of anti-abortion, anti-stem cells, anti-gay marriage, anti-gay adoption, confession to make a stronger obedience to the church etc...

He is a shadow of his well respected late predecessor Bishop (who he attacked one of his books after his death).

I view Nienstedt a failure in his duties as a Bishop, he is a laddar climber, no more no less, taking the "prudent" positions hoping for a ArchBishop or Cardnial position in the future.

http://www.dnu.org/bishop/

[Ian David]

23. On the OTHER side... people of faith IN FAVOR of gay marriage...

MASSACHUSETTS DECLARATION OF RELIGIOUS SUPPORT FOR THE FREEDOM OF
SAME-GENDER COUPLES TO MARRY


The most fundamental human right, after the necessities of food, clothing and shelter, is the right to affection and the supportive love of other human beings. We become most fully human when we love another person. We can grow in our capacity to be human -- to be loving -- in a family unit. This right to love and to form a family is so fundamental that our Constitution takes it for granted in its dedication to "secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity"; our Declaration of Independence likewise affirms the essential right of human beings to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

Throughout history, tyrants have known that by denying the right of oppressed peoples to form and nurture families, they can kill the spirit of those peoples. From the shameful history of slavery in America, the injustice of forbidding people to marry is evident as a denial of basic human rights. The American laws forbidding interracial marriage, now struck down, were clearly discriminatory. Denial of the status of marriage, to those who would freely accept its responsibilities, creates legal and economic inequities in addition to its social injustice. We feel called to protest and oppose this type of injustice.

As religious people, clergy, and leaders, we are mandated to stand for justice in our common civic life. We oppose appeals to sacred texts and religious traditions for the purpose of denying legal equity to same-gender couples. As concerned citizens, we affirm the liberty of adults of the same gender to love and marry. We insist that no one, especially the state, may either coerce people into marriage, or bar two consenting adults of the same gender from forming the family unit that lets them be more fully loving, thus more fully human. We respect the fact that debate and discussion continue in many of our religious communities as to the theological and liturgical issues involved. However, we draw on our many faith traditions to arrive at a common conviction: we are resolved that the State should not interfere with same-gender couples who choose to marry and share fully and equally in the rights, responsibilities, and commitments of civil marriage.

We affirm the right to freedom of conscience in this matter: we recognize that the state may not require religious groups to officiate at, or bless, same-gender marriages. By the same token, a denial of civil recognition dishonors the religious convictions of those communities and clergy who do officiate at, and bless, same-gender marriages; the state may not favor the convictions of one religious group over another to deny individuals their fundamental right to marry and have those marriages recognized by civil law.

As faith leaders, we commit ourselves to public action, visibility, education, and mutual support in the service of the right and freedom to marry.


©2005 Religious Coalition for the Freedom to Marry
11 Beacon Street, Suite 1125 • Boston, MA 02108
Voice: 617.878.2390 • Fax: [phone] • [e-mail]

More:
http://www.rcfm.org/declaration/index.html



Submit to RCFM's

People of Faith Testimony Book

To be delivered to legislators
before the next constitutional convention
Both clergy and laity are encouraged to participate.
This is the single, most powerful and effective way to move hearts and minds to support marriage equality.

New Extended Deadline: April 28, 2006

[Ian David]

24. New Orleans preacher things being anti-gay more important than pro-levee

Dr. Steve W. Lemke
Professor of Philosophy and Ethics

Office: Regular office -- the Frost Building, 3939 Gentilly Blvd., New Orleans LA 70126; Temporary office -- North Georgia extension center, 862 Columbia Drive, Decatur, GA 30030
Office Phone: 1-800-NOBTS-01; or [phone] ext. 3216
Fax: [phone]
Home Phone:
E-Mail: [e-mail]

More:
http://www.nobts.edu/Faculty/ItoR/LemkeSW/Default.html

[Megahurtz]

29. Rofl!

:rofl:

[DuaneBidoux]

25. What states wouldn't sign the amendment? (38 needed)

They can push this thing and push it but it is damn hard to change the Constitution.

My estimation of states that wouldn't sign:

Vermont
Massachusetts
Connecticut
New York
New Hampshire (mainstream republican)
Rhode Island (mainstream republican)
Pennsylvania
Minnesota
Washington
Oregon
California

What do you think. Pretty accurate? Any body disagree with this list?

That is not to mention all the state legislatures where it would be on the fence and they can tie it up for years with procedural stuff until the thing loses momentum (which it will once the current oldest generation starts dying off--poles show much more tolerance among young people for gay rights.

[ruggerson]

26. I would add

Maine
New Jersey
Delaware
Illinois


I don't think this thing has a snowman's chance in hell out of getting out of congress in the first place.

And then there are at least 15-18 states which would vote against it.

There is a big difference between opposing same sex marriage (country is 60-40 against, roughly) and wanting a federal constitutional amendment to ban it. (country is probably 60-40 against)

[geniph]

28. I don't think Hawaii would sign, either

This is asinine. Anytime a religious leader or institution starts spending this kind of time in political activity, the institution to which they belong should be liable for income and property taxes. Once a church becomes a PAC, it should be subject to the same rules as any other PAC.

[Ian David]

33. Hawaii might sign it because of that deal they have with Alaska though?

You sign our bills, we sign yours?

[CatholicEdHead]

37. In the state legislature's current state MN is safe

The MN GOP is pushing all the devicive issues to take the state senate and control all three parts of state government (house, senate, governor). They did loose big in the state house in 2004 where it is now down to almost exactly 50/50. I do not see them getting the DFL controlled senate this year though they tried hard with the smear campaign over the state anti-gay marriage ammendment.

[TankLV]

27. TAX the fucking hypocritcal PEDOPHILES!

GOD spare me from your followers.

Can I hate these people even more than I do now?

YOUR fucking religion ENDS when it interferes with MY RIGHTS!

Stay in your goddamn CHURCH and LEAVE US ALONE!

Go practice your hatred and bigotry IN PRIVATE, AWAY FROM THE REST OF US!

[Ian David]

34. Let's revoke the Corporate charters of the McVatican franchises

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1013455#1013553

[HockeyMom]

32. What's next if they get away with this?

push to ban all divorce and remarraige? Push to ban ALL birth control (nevermind abortion), including condoms?

[Zenlitened]

35. If you oppose same-sex marriage... don't have one!

Is that so difficult?

These religionist relics are demented, they really are. Morally corrupt. Their minds are so twisted up with hatred and lies, it's a wonder they can speak a word.