High gasoline prices boost public transit

[lovuian]

http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/?sid=a690ab761cb41d20

Soaring U.S. gasoline prices are boosting ridership of the nation's public transit systems.

snip...
Washington Metrorail recorded its sixth-busiest day Thursday, USA Today reported.Salt Lake City's ridership was up 50 percent on its 19-mile light-rail system. Tulsa Transit's March ridership was the highest since August 2003. And ridership on San Francisco's Bay Area Rapid Transit is up 4.1 percent since July 1
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Field of Dreams
Build it and they will Come
Build Mass transit and they will ride it...

[Coastie for Truth]

1. Sure shoots down the "Conventional Wisdom"

of the auto executives, and the oil executives, and the political bribees.

[lovuian]

2. People should be DEMANDING Mass transit...

America is so behind...

[Coastie for Truth]

3. In the "Good Old Days" when light rail, trolleys, and interurban

trains were being torn up at GM's bidding (to be replaced with buses)

That was when GM was lobbying San Francisco to tear up ALL OF THE CABLE CAR LINES and replace them with buses. And a little old grand ma in tennis shoes fought them - and beat them.
:hi:

We had a "Man Against The Democratic Machine" Dem running for Mayor - Pete Flaherty. The biggest part of his campaign was defeating a rapid transit line. His arguments:

1) Nobody is building transit - everybody is going to "Modern Buses" - this is when DC Metro and SF BART were under construction.

2) Unless there is a cop on each train and station platform there will be rampant crime.

3) In some neighborhoods - "This will just enable the criminal element to have easier access to your neighborhood."

4) In other neighborhoods - "It's racist because the fancy neighborhoods are getting the system ten years before your neighborhood."

5) "The technology is unproven. (It was an amalgam or blend of Paris Metro, DC METRO, and SF BART technology).

I voted against that idiot - but he got elected, the bond issue was defeated, he got re-elected, the City dropped from about 600,000 to about 275,000 and went into "Municipal Bankruptcy" last year.

[Blue_Tires]

6. back in the day

the guy that owned Firestone tires bought the trolly system in L.A. and dismanteled it, iirc

[MurrayDelph]

10. I always thought

it was Judge Doom

[NEOBuckeye]

4. People still love their cars way too much.

They love the so-called "freedom" that comes with being stuck for hours on a multi-lane highway during rush hour. Go figure. :eyes:

I'd take a railway any day. Maybe we'll finally get serious about building them when gas exceeds $5.00 per gallon and stays there. Something will eventually have to give.

[Coastie for Truth]

8. "Personal Cars"

Here's the Toyota "PM - Personal Mobility" Concept Car


<>





And here's the Sparrow Electric - back in production


<><>

[AnneD]

16. I never had much use for buses...

and there was no available rail here in Texas. But when I traveled to Europe and used their system, I just can't say enough about how great it is. If we had a system like that, I'd take that over the car any day. You only need a car for special trip and carrying large loads.

[mwooldri]

20. There's an intermediate solution: Demand Response Transit.

It's a blend of the economies of bus transit and the convenience of a taxi. You call to schedule your ride ahead of time, and the bus meets you at a mutually agreed upon point (end of driveway, end of a local road, etc). The bus would then travel to an end destination (mass transit hub, connection to a fixed-route bus, shopping center, etc) and arrange pickup from that same place at another mutually agreed upon time.

Greensboro has it for its disabled residents. My home village of Cranleigh in England has it for the outlying areas - but for everyone (so no longer restricted to the infrequent regular fixed-line bus service).

Combine Demand Response Transit with fixed-line buses, also develop mixed-mode School/Transit bus (serving the schools during school time, and taking regular passengers at other times). You would then have something beginning to approach the flexibility of car travel - without the car.

Mark.

[lostinacause]

7. It isn't conventional wisdom. Their goals are different.

Both benefit from the other charging lower prices. Unlike collusion between companies that produce the same product this type of collusion would be very difficult to maintain without a formal agreement and side payments. Side payments are very transparent.

Further, look at what the high gas prices are doing to the (not so) Big 3. GM and Ford both have had huge losses and Chrysler would be in the same situation if their marketing strategy wasn't as good as it is. The success of these auto manufactures has been due to low oil prices.

[corporate_mike]

5. Map of Gas Prices (gasbuddy.com)

[lostinacause]

9. It's interesting that you can see the way gas prices relate to the market

from that picture. The effects of tax rates and fuel standards (California) and proximity to main shipping routes (Texas and the Midwest) are quite clear.

[ForPeace]

12. There's some correlation with the red/blue map

The blue states are being hit harder at the pump.

[lostinacause]

21. Higher fuel taxes and fuel standards in blue states.

If the taxes are 20% higher even in a perfectly competitive market the price will be 20% higher.

[kestrel91316]

11. It has been a long time coming, but finally the Hummers and giant SUVs

seem to have vanished from our streets. And the Priuses are just thick.

YAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lovuian]

13. Hey why is Idaho so low??? whats in Idaho???

whats the deal up there???

And people have to eat and if mass transits saves them money they will ride it

Look at Europe Japan and britain... their people use it...

[lostinacause]

22. Idaho is so low because it is close to Alberta.

Alberta, if it were a country, would be in the top 10 producers if I am not mistaken.

[newswolf56]

14. Five reasons the mass transit we need will not ever be built:

(1)-Because we the people no longer have any say in our governance, which means that desperate public need is no longer factored into political decision-making (for absolute proof look at New Orleans);

(2)-Because such construction requires massive redistribution of wealth -- specifically fair taxation of Big Business generally -- which Big Business will never allow;

(3)-Because construction of mass transit would reduce the profits of Big Oil, which Big Oil will never allow;

(4)-Because even if such funding could be forcibly extracted from Big Business (whether by taxes or outright nationalization), the cost of land (an accurate measurement of the increasing worthlessness of the dollar) has risen to such levels that the necessary land-acquisition expenses make mass transport impossible;

(5)-Because the outsourcing of raw materials and technology has similarly inflated these costs, again placing them forever beyond reach.

The only rational mode of public transport is powered by electricity and runs on rails. But the United States -- which already has the worst public transport in the industrial world (that is, the slowest, most expensive, most viciously discriminatory, least efficient) -- is condemned forever to its herky-jerky bus system: a hallmark of the Third World, and proof positive of the extent to which the U.S. is already a Third World country. This is because -- apart from all the other factors -- building a rail transport system is impossibly expensive. Such systems cost nearly $70 million per mile in 2000:

http://www.publicpurpose.com/ut-lrt2001.htm

and because of the skyrocketing costs of land acquisition, the per-mile cost has risen as much as 25 percent per year since then. Seattle's system -- which is already nine years behind schedule due to political and bureaucratic sabotage (the ruling class regards rail transport as "Manhattanization" and fiercely opposes it) -- is already costing $180 million per mile:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_rail

(scroll down) and for that reason will never be completed.

The time to build transport systems was during the 1960s and 1970s, when the federal Urban Mass Transit Administration (UMTA) had matching-fund programs, with the federal share as high as 90 percent. Such programs will never again be allowed; American big business -- that is, global capitalism -- has no intention of ever again investing even a penny in anything that will benefit American workers. This is the bottom line, and this is why there will not be -- now or ever -- any meaningful expansion of public transport in the U.S.

_________
Edit: typos

[area51]

15. Great post.

"... its herky-jerky bus system: a hallmark of the Third World, and proof positive of the extent to which the U.S. is already a Third World country."

I'd also say that rampant offshoring/inshoring of our jobs, lack of universal healthcare, people hocking family heirlooms to buy enough gas to get to work, plus a rapidly disappearing middle class, are also proof positive of us already being a 3rd World country.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

17. Now, now... Portland is expanding our Max line again this year...

This leg is going to go right near my place, from Wilsonville, through Tigard to Beaverton, where it will connect to the other 3 lines.

More is being planned.
http://www.trimet.org/projects/index.htm

Some of us are getting on the bandwagon :)

[newswolf56]

18. Portland actually proves my point. Portland is as progressive...

as Seattle is reactionary and xenophobic: the core of the Portland system -- which makes all the rest of it possible -- was built during the 1970s with UMTA money. During that same time the Seattle establishment was busy killing three separate rail-transport proposals, two local (1969 and 1970) and one statewide (1980).

The statewide system, proposed through the legislature by Tacoma's Sen. Ted Haley, envisioned building a core high-speed light rail network on the Interstate 5 median -- land already owned by the state -- and using the savings to build into the major Puget Sound area cities: Olympia, Tacoma, Seattle, Everett, Bellingham. Had the system been build, it would by now be running from the Canadian border to the Oregon state line and would link to the Portland-area system.

But the Seattle establishment killed it: the Seattle Old Guard didn't want ANY rail system because they regard rail transport as "Manhattanization," and Metro (the Seattle-area bus system) didn't want to be subservient to a regional transit authority.

Indeed, it was only because of a huge three-county voter-mobilization battle in which Tacoma was once again the leader that the present system was approved in 1996 -- a system the Seattle establishment has bitterly fought every step of the way since then. Now of course -- nine years behind schedule -- the system will never be completed.

In this context it is especially interesting that Seattle repeatedly claims to be the most environmentally enlightened city in the nation -- a claim that this shameful public transport situation reveals as outrageous hypocrisy.

At least though we have our painfully slow herky-jerky limited bus service: most parts of the United States don't even have that.

[Bridget Burke]

29. Even Houston has managed to begin with Light Rail....

One line is finished & another is being planned. Our progress was impeded because Tom DeLay controlled federal funding & he opposed the project. (& his soon-to-be-former constituents live in Commuter Hell!)

Our "herky-jerky bus service" feeds the light rail & works well for those of us who live & work in certain areas. Many here cannot use public transit for legitimate reasons. But some who COULD refuse to get on those "herky jerky" buses. Sometimes, because they see the "sort of people" who ride them. Let those elitist/racist fools bitch about high gas prices & astronomical parking fees.

[depakid]

19. Yeah, but #@*&% dammit

I can't find a spot to hang my bike anymore. It's been hard to even find a place to stand with it the last couple of weeks!

[Viva_La_Revolution]

24. Hey you!

:)

Sounds like maybe we'll have to fill out a couple of those comment cards, adding more hooks for bikes. I'm afraid this problem may get worse. :(

[kestrel91316]

25. Heck, the whole Willamette Valley must be bussified by now............

[Viva_La_Revolution]

26. Bussified and trainified...

I don't think those are real words... :)

Here in the Metro area, you can get from any where to anywhere in 2 hours or less. Pretty cool. :)
They replaced the #5 with the Yellow line Max Train a few years ago, and now they are working on replacing the #12.

[Coastie for Truth]

23. Right of Way Acquisition

You posted:

(4)-Because even if such funding could be forcibly extracted from Big Business (whether by taxes or outright nationalization), the cost of land (an accurate measurement of the increasing worthlessness of the dollar) has risen to such levels that the necessary land-acquisition expenses make mass transport impossible;

Horrible story - see my append #3()Back in the era of transit construction in the first quarter of the 20th Century - the traction company had obtained all of the easements and rights of way - cheap. After the bond issue was defeated in 1969 - Mayor Cuckoo Bananas Flaherty sold those easements and rights of way for pennies on the dollar. And for that the people re-elected him.

Second point -- most of our light rail lines in CA are in the medial strip.

[newswolf56]

27. I saw your post and didn't respond specifically because...

what you said was complete unto itself. Similar outrages were taking place all over the United States: note for example the campaign to shut down all Seattle's trackless trolleys, halted only because an exceptionally fine alternative newspaper (The Seattle Sun, 1974-1981) exposed what was being done and stirred up genuine citizen anger.

Indeed (as I have posted on other threads), I suspect the reason Bush has sicced Homeland Security on the Jack Anderson estate is that Anderson laid bare the effectively secret Congressional records of the hearings c. 1948 that exposed the Big Oil/Big Automotive scheme to destroy public transport throughout the USA: the objective, of course, was to make the country hopelessly dependent on the automobile -- thanks to the eager collaboration of the politicians, an objective achieved in every sense of the word. Anderson wrote about this a lot during the oil crises of the 1970s, making it clear that this sort of conspiratorial behavior was not the work of a few rogue elements but rather the capitalist norm in action: precursors to Enron in every sense -- greed, manipulation, corrupt politicians and the methodical victimization of everyone not independently wealthy.

Sorry I returned so late to this thread: I desperately needed a mental health day and took it. Even got a little sun burn. :)

[noonwitch]

28. Detroit has terrible public transportation, I will continue to drive

Plus, I'm one of those people who loves to drive.

[Left Coast Lynn]

30. Public transit

it was the answer all along.

[KamaAina]

31. Ah, the irony: Just now, New Orleans RTA is headed down the tubes

thanks to our dear friends at FEMA :sarcasm: , which is pulling the plug on transit aid to N.O. (and Baton Rouge, which needs additional service for its new, larger population) as of June 30.

http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/frontpage/index.ssf?/base/news-5/1146034780198660.xml

The authority began bracing for the worst after it was notified recently that after June 30 the Federal Emergency Management Agency would stop paying for an "emergency plan" supporting mass transit operations in New Orleans and Baton Rouge, which has grown rapidly since displaced residents fled there....

The news came in a letter from Wayne Fairley, chief of FEMA's Response Operations Branch.

"To make sure that there is a smooth transition on June 30, I thought I might give a few reminders," he wrote. "The three bus missions will end at midnight, June 30, 2006. There will be no extensions for any reason. No extension for time. No amendments for additional funding and no new mission assignments. Per FEMA regulations, no new mission assignments will be authorized beyond June. 30."...

"Without a cash infusion from the state or the federal government, the RTA must prepare for the worst-case scenario, which means operating transit only in those areas where there is substantial repopulation, an area that could be largely limited to 'the sliver by the river,' " (RTA head -Ed.) Reiss said. "If your revenue is severely limited, that's where you run service."

Boy, both Fairley and Reiss are real charmers, aren't they? In fact, Reiss was among those making ugly statements right after the storm about not wanting certain kinds of people (his own riders, actually :eyes: ) to come back. And what better way to make sure they don't than to gut transit, forcing anyone wishing to resettle to burn $3-a-gallon gasoline to get to work, shopping, school, or anything else, while they're already tapped out from the expense of rebuilding? Heckuvajob, Fairley and Reiss! :sarcasm:

edit: italics