N.H. leads a rebellion against driver's license regulations

[Mr_Spock]

N.H. leads a rebellion against driver's license regulations
By Katharine Webster, Associated Press Writer | April 25, 2006

CONCORD, N.H. --New Hampshire has suddenly become a battleground in the fight over privacy rights versus homeland security, with state legislators voting against strict new federal standards for issuing driver's licenses.

At issue is the federal Real ID Act, which is intended to keep terrorists from getting fake IDs. It requires states by 2008 to verify documents such as birth certificates, Social Security cards and passports when people get driver's licenses. State databases with driver information and photos will also be linked.

Last month, the Republican-controlled New Hampshire House overwhelmingly voted to bar the state from participating in the program. A vote in the GOP-dominated Senate is expected in two weeks. Democratic Gov. John Lynch remains undecided.

The move has won backing from the American Civil Liberties Union as well as conservative privacy advocates and Christian fundamentalists.

"I think New Hampshire will set the dominoes falling in the states," said Barry Steinhardt, director of the Technology and Liberty Program of the ACLU, who testified for Rep. Neal Kurk's bill at a recent Senate hearing alongside a member of the conservative Cato Institute. "Who's going to say, `The emperor has no clothes?' New Hampshire's in a good position to do that."

...

http://www.boston.com/news/local/new_hampshire/articles/2006/04/25/nh_leads_a_rebellion_against_drivers_license_regulations/

Sometimes "Live Free or Die" really means something. Even Repugs in NH know about the state motto...

[rodeodance]

1. gawd---I am so ready for a REVOLUTION against the crapola

[rodeodance]

2. nominate. How can we support them?

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

3. move to NH

I guess

[Mr_Spock]

4. "I think New Hampshire will set the dominoes falling in the states,"

Let's hope this wakes up other states...

[davepc]

5. live free, or die

[Demeter]

6. This IS A Job for New Hampshire

That state is uniquely qualified to take on the Feds on this issue and prevail. Go for it, guys!

[mopinko]

7. intended to keep terrorists from getting fake IDs. NNOOOTTT!!

intended to keep poor people from voting.

[GuvWurld]

8. Three cheers for NH!!! - This is municipal civil disobedience

and we need more, lots more.

Blueprint For Peaceful Revolution (.pdf)

[Mr_Spock]

9. NH is famous for this

They lose out on highway funds because they refuse to have mandatory seatbelt laws. I think this is the kind of libertarianism that I like.

[Mr_Spock]

10. self kick

:D

[Phx_Dem]

11. I think improving standards for IDs is a good idea nt

[Mr_Spock]

12. Are you also a Patriot Act proponent?

just curious...

[Phx_Dem]

13. no of course not

I'm a liberal--I deal with DLs every day, they need to be standardized. You know there is a difference between rights concerning freedom and a "right to be anonymous", which of course does not exist.

[Mr_Spock]

14. Well, I'm all for what New Hampshire is doing

I was born & raised here & I'll be damned if I'm going to bring my birth certificate to renew my license at 50 years old - I did that when I was 16. Not my fault if these morons didn't keep good records.

[toopers]

15. Why do you have a problem bringing your birth certificate?

I am puzzled by that. What information on your birth certificate is private?

[Phx_Dem]

16. maybe because he is a libertarian? nt

[Mr_Spock]

17. Why should I have to re identify myself - I was born here

I am not willing to have to prove that I live here - they have more than enough information on us.

I am a libertarian liberal also as the below poster describes.

I am a "live free or die" liberal.

I'd rather die than live under the daily whim of my government...

[timtom]

18. If you would permit me...

I do not speak for Mr_Spock, but I would like to share my view on the matter...

I would have a problem showing my birth certificate for any reason. I never had a copy. I am 63 years old.

And it's a goddam AFFRONT!!!

Just like the "security" at airports.

It is a slap in the face of each and every one of us.

Terrorists, my ass!

[Phx_Dem]

19. you do not have the right to be anonymous nt

[Name removed]

20. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mr_Spock]

21. Do Reporters Have The Right To Protect Anonymous Sources?

?

[Phx_Dem]

23. NO, that's why they go to jail when they don't nt

[Mr_Spock]

24. So you don't believe in whistleblowers being protected?

Do you...?

[Phx_Dem]

27. different issue

I support federal whistleblower protection.

[Mr_Spock]

25. Internet Critic of Jefferson County Politician Has Right to Anonymity, Co

Internet Critic of Jefferson County Politician Has Right to Anonymity, Court Rules

http://www.citizen.org/pressroom/release.cfm?ID=1854

Former Commissioner Lost Re-election After Resident Sent E-mails About Wasted Tax Money

WASHINGTON, D.C. – A person who sent e-mails criticizing a Texas politician for helping to cause a budget deficit and make wasteful expenditures has a right to remain anonymous, a judge ruled today. The Internet critic, known only as recall_carl01, sent a series of e-mails in February and March 2004 identifying wasteful expenditures and urging fellow citizens to keep those in mind when voting.

Former Jefferson County Commissioner Jimmy Cokinos, who lost his re-election bid in March, filed a petition in June in the District Court of Jefferson County. He claimed that several of the e-mails were defamatory and demanded that the court order recall_carl01 to be identified.

Public Citizen, which has been a strong defender of First Amendment rights on the Internet, urged the court to allow recall_carl01 to remain anonymous. By seeking re-election, Cokinos voluntarily made his conduct a fair subject for comment, argued Paul Alan Levy, a Public Citizen attorney representing recall_carl01. Further, courts have ruled that subpoenas to reveal the names of anonymous speakers can chill free speech, and those courts have upheld the right to communicate anonymously over the Internet.

Today, District Court Judge Gary Sanderson agreed, ruling that a subpoena that would identify recall_carl01 should be quashed.

...

[Phx_Dem]

28. Sure

but he did not break any laws, I stated that I support this persons right to remain anonymous.

[Mr_Spock]

29. "you do not have the right to be anonymous nt"

You made a broad-brush statement - why did you do that?

[Phx_Dem]

30. The internet/www is a new milieu for communication

I think it is significantly different from other forms of communication so it's natural that 1st amend. rights are still evolving. I still stand by my stmt, maybe 1st amend. free speech will be interpreted as protecting anonymity on the web, I think that it probably should be.

I was referring to human activity in the community, I had not really thought about how this relates to internet activity. OK?

[Mr_Spock]

22. Protecting the right to be anonymous online.

Do you think we should have that right?

The Delaware Supreme Court thinks so - do you?

[Phx_Dem]

26. yes to a degree

if law enforcement has probable cause that a crime is being committed then no you don't have a right to browse the web anonymously.

There was a case a few years ago that made it to the supreme court, it involved a person walking down the street that was stopped by a peace officer who requested ID. SCOTUS ruled that ID must be provided.

It may seem hard for you to believe, but I'm a huge supporter of privacy rights. But privacy has nothing to do with anonymity, you are a citizen of this country and as such there are areas where the State has a compelling interest in your life (like obtaining a birth cert for example).

[toopers]

31. Did you ever receive a social security card?

Why is proper identification a slap in the face? If you do not want to prove who you are, then don't drive a car. There is no such thing as a "right to drive".

[leesa]

37. That's what your Social Security Number is linked to. It's been done once

That's enough.

[happyslug]

33. Then why don't you ask congress to pass a ID act

Instead of asking the STATES to make their DIVER LICENSES a National ID system.

There are Merits (and de-merits) to a National ID system, but these are NOT be discussed for technically the State do NOT issue IDs but license people to operate motor Vehicles on the Public Roads. How can a mere license to operate a Motor Vehicle EVER BE A GOOD ID system? People use Driver's License as ID but that is the only ID most people carry (Especially since the abolishment of Draft Cards in the early 1970s, which in the Post-WWII era almost became a National ID for males given all Males over 18 had to carry one AND produce it upon demand under penalty of criminal sanctions).

There has been NO DEBATE on the need for a National ID, Congress just said the States must upgrade they Driver's Licenses to be better IDs (Which Driver's Licenses were NEVER suppose to be, there were authorized by the States as license to Drive NOT IDs). One of the biggest mistakes ever made the the switch to photo Driver License (I live in Pennsylvania which along with Vermont issued paper Driver Licenses till the late 1970s when the Banks wanted Picture IDs to cash checks had the Congress made every State Adopted Photo Licenses).

My point is, if Congress was really serious about passed a "Real ID Act" all it has to do is pass some sort of National ID. Almost every other country in the world issue such IDs thus is not some impossible act, The problem for Congress to pass such an act means holding hearings on HOW such an act should be written and implemented, that will lead to a discussion on the merits of the need for a National ID. By using the State Driver's License as IDs, Congress avoids the whole issue. Congress can pass broad guidelines but the HOW those guidelines are to be implemented will be up to the States. The States can NOT debate the merits of a National ID unless the states (like New Humphshire) rejects the Federal Guidelines. Even then it is NOT a National Debate but a state by State Debate. When I hear about HOW this law is being implemented I keep remembering how the Kings of France kept their power in pre-revolutionary France. The King basically refused to call into session the Estates General (The National Assembly) and ruled through the provinces, playing one province against the next. If a Province decided to ignored the King he had the other Provinces pass the same act and put pressure on the hold out provinces to comply "In the National Interests". Thus the Kings of France, as Dictators of France, ruled through the Provinces NOT the National Government. The problem is such local assemblies can NOT debate national issues (Thus when the Government went into Financial Crisis in the 1780s the King HAD to call the Estate General and from its call up you had the French Revolution which tried to make sure what the Kings of France did from the late 1600s to 1789 Could not happen again by abolishing the provinces, which had some independence from the National Government of France, and replacing them with "Districts" which ere completely subservient to the National Government.).

My point is to avoid Debate is to permit things to happen WITHOUT KNOWING THE COMPLETE RAMIFICATIONS OF THE ACTION BEING DEBATED. Do e need a national ID? That is the real issue NOT how to implement a National ID system (Which is all we are doing now under the "Real ID Act").

[Vinca]

32. As a New Hampshire resident, I find this amusing.

Despite all the "Live Free or Die" baloney, New Hampshire is the most regulated state I've ever lived in. In our town, if you want to cut a tree along the road, you have to flag it for a year so anyone can object if they think you shouldn't do it. When we installed a new septic system it took weeks to get an expensive design and permit, meanwhile nasty stuff was bubbling up in the back yard. I would never have moved across the river from Vermont if I had known how bad New Hampshire was when it comes to regulations, permits and fees for everything. The only things it's got going for it are a few spots without signage that are quite pretty and the chance to meet interesting politicians up close and personal during the primary season.

[OKthatsIT]

35. Why would you leave Vermont for New Hampshire?

Vermont is soooo cool.

[Vinca]

36. It was a great real estate deal

and we love our particular location near the top of a hill. (The road was featured in Yankee Magazine once for the daffodil displays in the spring.) It's very rural, but only 3 miles from grocery stores, gas stations, etc. I lived in Vermont for much of my life (born there, in fact) and had no idea the differences were so great between Vermont and New Hampshire. (Note: the move was prior to the time I had any interest in politics.) We'll be pulling up stakes again soon (downsizing) and will go back to Vermont if Democrats regain Congress or Canada if they don't.

[OKthatsIT]

34. COME ON REPUBLICANS...you're suppose to be behind this, too!

NH has always been the home of the Republican values of old.

Home of the Minutemen..."Liberty or Death"

What happened to you Republicans? We've lost our National Identity, our Constitutional Rights, our fiscally responsible watchdogs.

I have been a Left Winger most of my life. I have criticized Republican values because I didn't understand the necessary 'balancing effect' they had in running the Govt. Never had I thought I'd see the day where I wished for Republican values to PLEASE STAND UP. (Man, I'll get down and beg if I have to)

New Hampshire is the state of LIBERTY and against foreign elites taking control of our Govt, security, manufacturing, jobs, and real estate. New Hampshire is "Live Free or Die". New Hampshire is ANTI-Posse Comitatus to the Max....I find myself in the strangest place...praising the old ways of the Republican party. I hope New Hampshire continues to show the Nation the positive nature of old republicanism.

Things are so bad now...I have come to realize how much we need each other. As Americans, from the grassroots...we need to stand up together and show Washington...show Congress what it is to be an American...a True American.

Thank You New Hampshire. Thank You.