Bush says National Anthem should be in English

[jerry611]

Bush says National Anthem should be in English
By JEANNINE AVERSA, AP Economics Writer

WASHINGTON - The national anthem should be sung in English — not Spanish — President Bush declared Friday.

A Spanish language version of the national anthem was released Friday by a British music producer, Adam Kidron, who said he wanted to honor America's immigrants.

When the president was asked at a Rose Garden question-and-answer session whether the anthem should be sung in Spanish, he replied: "I think the national anthem ought to be sung in English. "

He made his remarks on the matters during a wide-ranging briefing with reporters.

"I think people who want to be citizens of this country ought to learn English," Bush said.

The president's comments came amid a burgeoning national debate — and congressional fight — over legislation pending in Congress, and pushed by Bush, to overhaul U.S. immigration law. Large numbers of immigrant groups have planned an economic boycott next week to dramatize their call for legislation providing legal status for millions of people in the United States illegally.

"I am not a supporter of boycotts," Bush said. "I am a supporter of comprehensive immigration reform. ... I think that most Americans agree that we've got to enforce our border."

His remarks followed release of the Spanish language version of the song, called "Nuestro Himno" or "Our Anthem."


http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20060428/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_national_anthem_1

[phusion]

1. BUSH telling people they ought to learn English?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[xultar]

2. That is exactly what I was gonna post...

:rofl:

[slackmaster]

3. Me three

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[BrklynLiberal]

5. I was going to ask if he would recognize English if he heard it.

[saigon68]

12. HE DOESN'T RECOGNIZE MUCH OF ANYTHING

LOOK AT THE FUCKER'S EYES. alt title ( This is your brain on Crack)

[BrklynLiberal]

72. Is that a pic from one his childhood albums?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[KalicoKitty]

173. OMG....his twin!!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[dipsydoodle]

25. This from a man whose autobiography

will doubtless be titled A Book What I Wrote.

[Jansen]

45. ...

"will doubtless be titled A Book What I Wrote."

or A Book What I Ought To Have Wrote



I wonder if he was told that he should slide the word ought into conversation as much as possible to come off as a cowboy.

[Olney Blue]

116. Hi Jansen- welcome to DU!

:hi:

[goclark]

74. He thinks that he speaks Spanish, no? ROTFL

"Me s un espanole gringo. Ki yo tees es bueno..." ROTFL


He can't speak English or Spanish.

[Alameda]

86. National Anthem in English?

From what I understand, the US does not have an official state language as some other places. Another thing nobody has seemed to mention or perhaps know about is certain provisions in the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo that specified Spanish language be kept, in particular in official areas. That was how many of the land grants were lost, when they went to court, it was in English and they lost.

Of course, it's good to be able to read, write and speak the predominant language, but....

[JerseygirlCT]

114. Yeah right -- you first Bush! nt

[Bill McBlueState]

and I think Pepsi is a type of pop

But if people go around calling it "soda," it's no loss to me.

[redqueen]

4. I like the Spanish version... I hope it's played at sports games,

and in schools, very soon.

Why can other countries be tolerant and multicultural, but not us? This is embarassing and shameful.

[jerry611]

7. Do they sing the national anthem of France in arabic?

10% of the population of France is arabic.

If they sing this in spanish at a football game, believe me, there is going to be more boos than you can imagine.

You want a racial backlash, this is the best way to do it.

[phusion]

9. The French are overly protective of their culture...

We, however, are a country of immigrants...I don't think you'd see a racial backlash if the Spanish version was also played.

[bjb]

28. USA

We are a nation of CITIZENS!

[redqueen]

30. American Indian citizens? If not, you're a decendant of immigrants.

Did you REALLY not know this?

:rofl:

[Ignacio Upton]

75. Well, technically the Indians did migrate too

Although they did so in pre-historic times.

[redqueen]

76. Yes they did.

Which is one reason why this whole native/immigrant thing is just SO fucking STUPID.

[Ignacio Upton]

79. Every human who has ever lived in the Western Hemisphere

is an immigrant in one way or another.

[teknomanzer]

89. Thats absurd...

by that line of reasoning if you were a Frenchman living in France you'd be an immigrant because the Franks invaded the Roman province of Gual... and they did it more recently than the migration of peoples across the Bering Straight. Hell, if your not currently living in Central Africa you would be an immigrant by that line of reasoning. Why not take it further... if your not living in the ocean you're an immigrant. Its just an absurd thing to say, and I'm sure that more than one Native American would take issue with such a statement.

[Ignacio Upton]

90. Not intended to be inflammatory

Of course, I'm using this to argue against the point that any European who came over is an "immigrant." If your ancestors came here several hundred years ago aboard the Mayflower, or even if you are second-generation, you are still a "native" America. The majority of my direct ancestors came here from the 1880's-1900's. My great-great grandfather came to Brooklyn from Scotland during either the 1870's or 1880's, three of my great-grandparents came from Britain, Norway, and the former Austrio-Hungarian Empire, respectively. I also have ancestry going back to the Revolutionary War.

[teknomanzer]

100. Not an attack against you...

but I think saying that "We are all immigrants... Native Americans included..." sort of diminishes what happened to them... and what is still happening to them in this country. I think we need to acknowledge their displacement, and not push it aside with a statement such as that.

Edited to say that it wasn't like Europeans came over and said "Hey, we're starting a new country would you indians like to join us?"

[Ignacio Upton]

110. That's not my intention

Anyone who justifies the genocide committed against them is an idiot. I was just trying to point out how the term "Native American" could also be applied to people who themselves were born here, regardless of race.

[Tight_rope]

171. I couldn't agree with you more!

[Homer Wells]

111. To follow that line of reasoning to its logical end

Since all of mankind is said to have originated from the African continent, it stands to reason all Europeans were immigrants, too.
How long does it take for a group to be considered a native of a particular land. Native Americans have been here on this continent for many thousands of years. I think that entitles them to be considered Natives and not IMMIGRANTS.
But perhaps I am being too logical!?
:sarcasm:

:hippie:

[Ecumenist]

63. Sad, BJB

[redqueen]

13. They sing the national anthem of Canada in French.

What's the big deal?

I want a backlash against racists... bring. it. on.

[Lisa]

53. and sometimes, we compromise by alternating French and English lines

Admittedly it sounds a bit strange (since the French and English lyrics are quite different in terms of content), but we've gotten used to it. Most Canadians under the age of 40 (at least from Manitoba on east) can recite at least a few of the French lines phonetically, even if they haven't had more than a couple of years of elementary/high school French.

[redqueen]

58. I so love the multiculturalism up there.

I hope to move there someday. Some place I can be proud of, if electronic voting systems and corporations continue to conspire so that I can no longer be proud of my home. :(

[Ecumenist]

64. Exactly, redqueen... They do have french version, for the

quebecoise-speaking citizens.

[Canuckistanian]

94. French woman speaking?

Sorry, but québecoise means French Woman from Québec.

"Québecois" only refers to the people, not the language. It's just called french, or français.
:hi:

[Ecumenist]

96. Mea Culpa, thank you Canuck

But I assume that they mean the women too. I'll endeavour not to make that mistake again.:hi:

[Canuckistanian]

97. Pas de problème....

Or, rather, je t'en prie (you're welcome).

[Ecumenist]

104. You know, I have family members that are in Canada

FRENCH Canadian, (accadians). The family info on them is that they left Louisiana in the early 19th century because of the influx of "Americans", who apparently weren't the kindest to my family. My family is VERY mixed and that side was Creole but many of the members were indistinguishable from the white cajuns. My husband and I are planning an extended trip to Canada and possibly looking to buy, if possible, some property in on the west coast of the Canada.

Thank God for a nearby country that is at least somewhere near sane.

[Canuckistanian]

93. It wasn't always like that

While I was growing up in very english Toronto, you'd never hear the anthem in French.

When they started singing it at hockey games in French (in the 70's), there were actually a lot of boos for a while.

Now, we hear it all the time. And no boos any more.

[democracyindanger]

14. What does France and arabic

have to do with anything? :eyes:

[RaleighNCDUer]

15. To paraphrase Henry Higgins, in France they don't particularly

care what you do so long as you pronounce it correctly.

So the Chimp believes we should emulate France? That's a first.

This is jingoistic nonsense. The first generation of immigrants always speaks English poorly, if at all. The second generation speaks both languages fluently. The third generation speaks English, and must take classes in HS to learn the former mother-tongue.

It's been that way since the first immigrant (except that the 1st Europeans did not adopt Native American languages).

It's a talking point without a foundation in reality.

I, for one, am real interested in how the translation reads.

[liberalpragmatist]

41. Exactly

Most second-generation Hispanics speak English fluently even if they speak Spanish at home. Perhaps the large concentration of Hispanics will make Spanish more common in a couple generations, but there's nothing to suggest that Hispanic immigrants are any different in this respect than earlier waves of Italian, German, Chinese, and Yiddish-speaking immigrants. At the times people used to complain how even those groups used to ghetto-ize and didn't integrate or learn English. There's nothing to suggest that Hispanics aren't going to hold to the same pattern.

[Ecumenist]

62. Welcome to DU, Jerry

Enjoy what will probably be a very short stay. :hi: Have a happy sT-R-O-L-L through our lovely, INTELLIGENT forum. Don't look now but your freep is showing...

[jerry611]

85. So because I am against illegal immigration...

That makes me a right-winger?

[Igel]

43. I'd like to see it in Czech.

Why limit the languages to the two most spoken in the US?

Nweh would be kind of cool. So would Efik. And some Khoe dialect, before the blacks finish wiping them out.

[TankLV]

152. I vote for Ukrainian.

I could care less about Spanish.

Make it Ukrainian or shut up!

This discussion will get us all nowhere.

I tend to agree with the posters that say this, too will pass.

By the third generation, most will "forget" their mother tongue, unfortunately.

I tried to take Ukrainian in college for 2 years and still would leave my grandmother in tears whenever I spoke to her - she was laughing so hard at me!

But I feel like I was missing out.

We need a common language if our country is to remain united. Introducing separatness is NOT a good idea, IMO.

But I believe this will all sort itself out eventually, until somebody gets their nickers in a twist about some future immigrant group that decides to come to this country enmasse.

First some wave Mexican flags and "you people" (rightfully) don't like it - now that immigrants have taken it upon themselves to learn the anthem in their own language - OUR anthem - and "you people" STILL don't like it!

Make up your fucking minds! Seems like "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" mentality.

I just can't believe some are upset that people are trying to sing OUR national anthem - OURS - in their own language - that should be PRAISED! Think of it - they so love this country that they are willing to learn to sing it so they can understand it!

A lot more love than some repukes who probably don't even know the ENGLISH words!

[partylessinOhio]

6. Well, that will get him the Hispanic vote!

:sarcasm:

[Critters2]

26. That's what I thought

Karl must have had a heart attack when he said that!

[sidpleasant]

52. The GOP has given up on the Hispanic vote

Thanks to Tancredo's racist immigration bill Rove's much - touted plan to convert Hispanics into a reliable Republican voting block is dead forever and the Republicans know it. Frist and McCain are still scheming to see who can kiss the most fundamentalist ass in preparation for 2008 but nobody in the White House or Republican HQ cares about anything further out than November 7, 2006. Everything they do now is aimed at saving GOP control of both houses of Congress at any cost. Rove has to gamble everything on whipping up the most reactionary elements of the GOP base so they'll turn out on election day; I have no doubt that KKKarl told Bush to make this comment. It wasn't a typical Bush malapropism, it was deliberate.

[teknomanzer]

87. That would be an interesting gambit...

could prove to be effective... after all illegal immigrants (or if you prefer undocumented workers) can't vote. On the other hand... some of their relatives, friends and other associates may.

As a side note... I guess I qualify as hispanic and I don't really speak spanish at all. I don't really see why the anthem should have to be sung in english... why should potential citizens experience our anthem in a language they can understand.

[Book Lover]

8. Are you kidding me? It should be translated into every language on earth!

[slackmaster]

16. Hmmm, it's awkward enough in English

I can't imagine what it would sound like in Tagalog or Serbo-Croatian or Afrikaans.

[struggle4progress]

80. Maybe we should consider scrapping it and finding a new one.

It's set to an old English boozing tune almost no one can sing, about Bacchus and Venus, and it's nigh impossible to sing the original words to the tune -- which suggests that it could have been the basis of one of those drinking games where ya hafta take another gulp whenever ya mess up.

The giant naked statute of him strolling near Fort McHenry notwithstanding, Francis Scott Key had almost no poetic talent.

And the song only became the national anthem in the 1930's so it doesn't have an ancient provenance ...

[jerry611]

18. BUT THEY CHANGED THE WORDS!!!

You do understand that the words of the anthem were changed to support the rights of illegal immigrants.

The Star-Spangled banner was written by Francis Scott Key as the British were attacking Fort McHenry in the war of 1812.
How can illegal immirants come into our country against the law, and re-write our national anthem in their language and you want that version played at all sporting events?

That's insane. No country on this planet allows that.

When my ancestors came to America, did they try to re-write the national anthem? No. Did they go out in the streets and demand rights by waving the flag of a foreign nation? No. They wrapped themselves in the American flag and they became part of America. They didn't come here and try to change anything. They came here because they wanted to be Americans.

I am all for legal immigration. I am not a racist. I want people from all over the world to come here to learn or work. But today, these people hop across the border and then protest in our streets waving the flag of a foreign nation and demand they have some sort of right to get what they want? That's just not right in my opinion.

[redqueen]

19. The words were changed to support what now?

Logic dictates that they were changed to match the meter of the song.

If you have PROOF otherwise, post it.

[jerry611]

22. It was said that the words were changed....

I havn't been able to find a copy of the lyrics on the internet yet. But the person who wrote this version says he dedicates it to illegal immigrants in America and some of the wording was changed to support their cause.

And to further the stupidity...this was written and produced by a man in Britain. It isn't even made by anyone who immigrated here.

[redqueen]

31. He owns a record label in New York.

Are you sure that he lives elsewhere?

[Ecumenist]

68. IT WAS SAID???

You don't know first hand about something that makes no difference in how the vast majority love this country and yet you pop off with some goofy statement about "changing the words"? Boy, you should have taken that turn off that offramp off of 99 before you passed through Fresno...

[fasttense]

20. Did they really change the words???

So what do the new words translate into? Spanish was my first language (but I can't speak it now) so singing the National Anthem in Spanish doesn't really bother me. In fact, I find the Spanish language rather soothing. I just thought the music was awful. It wasn't the traditional National Anthem music. The beat was off and they tried to jazz up the instruments. It was just bad music. I wish they would do it straight and just translate the current words.

[redqueen]

32. It's nearly impossible to translate into another language,

while keeping the same beat, and having it match the up with the music.

[RaleighNCDUer]

57. That is exactly right.

That's why translations of the Greek tragedies work best if the translator works with quatrains, rather than the original meter -- the languages are too different to keep a literal translation and the original meter.

If they want to keep the tune for the SSB, they have to change the lyrics to make them fit. That doesn't mean that the intent and message of the lyrics need be lost.

[Orsino]

168. And who knows?

It just might be that different versions could illuminate the original in ways that are uniquely beautiful or inspiring.

Nothing is lost.

[Book Lover]

36. No. I thought it was a straightforward translation.

If the words were changed, then it's a different piece of music and shouldn't be called the national anthem. But I have no problem with anyone having made the changes in the first place; no one gets their artistic license from a government.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

55. oh my God NOT AT SPORTING EVENTS!

HOLY FUCKING SHIT THAT WOULD BE HORRIBLE!!!!

[redqueen]

66. Are you being sarcastic? n/t

[SlavesandBulldozers]

148. yes.

:D

[Ecumenist]

67. So what, Jerry?

How is their changing the words undermining your pride in your country or anyone else's? Does that take away from your belief in what this country used to mean and hopefully will stand for again once this criminal regime is tossed out on it's ear? AND dragged to the Hague.. for war crimes

[jerry611]

73. Because it wasn't written to support illegal aliens

If I were to move to another country, I would never have the nerve to ask that country to change their beliefs, culture, language, or society to make me feel more welcome.
Now look...I live in Florida. And I have gone to some areas in Miami where you would think you were in Havana because not one person speaks English. That's ridiculous.

These people that are coming here illegally are refusing to assimilate. They are refusing to respect the laws, they are refusing to embrace America, they are refusing to learn english.
Three of my co-workers I work with every day are immigrants. One from Mexico, another from Venezuela, and the third from Cuba. All are legal and they tell me they are EMBARRASSED because of what these illegals are doing today by invading this country and walking in our streets with a foreign flag. That is absolute total disrespect.

[Ecumenist]

82. Noone is asking you to change your beliefs, culture, language or

society... By the way, I live in California and speak SPANISH... I find it interesting that noone is looking at or saying anything about what I know first hand is happening... People from Europe, eastern, central, the UK come here on visitor's or student's visas or more often, vacations and STAY!! It's happening here in northern California and I have seen it with my own eyes since 1987. Alot of these people are from Russia, Ukraine, Hungary, Poland, you name it, they come here and get jobs working for cash in construction companies owned by legal immigrants, some of whom have been here since the mid-50's and definitely put native Americans out of work or drive down the wages. Many Illegal immigrants who come from Europe make their way from CANADA and noone has mentioned that fact. I notice that you never see anything about these Illegal immigrants and I suspect that it has alot to do with the fact that these people LOOK LIKE THEM AND ORIGINATE FROM THE SAME REGION OF THE WORLD that these "minutemen" do.

I have a problem with people who get on their high and mighty soap boxes because 9 times out of 10, their ancestors got to this country by getting off the boat or stagecoach wherever it stopped. If you can trace your bloodline back before the 1890's, you came in illegally. Noone got visas when they just moved onto this continent. I find it hard to believe that these workmates of yours would talk abut being embarrassed about people who're struggling like they are. It just sounds far too coincidental and a bit freeperish too.

By the way, notice that the name "Florida" as well as the names of many of it cities and towns and landmarks, ie, Okeechobee, Boca Raton, which means "rat's mouth", Miami aren't english in fact are derived from the first people who were there, SEMINOLES, (My father's mother grew up on a reservation in the everglades) AND OTHER Native americans AND SPANISH- the horror.. Hell, Florida was named and settled BY THE SPANISH Even Key West is actually CAY, which is the spanish word which denotes the small islands. American english is a hybrid language, mongrel tongue. ALWAYS HAS BEEN and has incorporated words that come from other tongues, including but no limited to SPANISH, French, German and an overwhelming number of native placenames..Michigan, Ohio, Mississippi, Alabama, The Dakotahs, Wisconsin, Utah, Oklahoma, Missouri, Kansas, Tennessee, Arkansas, Connecticut, Wyoming or spanish place names-Nevada, New Mexico, Arizona, Texas, Florida; French place names, Vermont, St Louis, Louisiana, New Orleans, Beaumont, Montpelier; Latin-Corpus Christi.. Need I go on?

How will this change things? This has been going on for as long as we've been in existence.. The real problem is the fact that people which a hell of alot more money than most of us are trying to to turn us against one another IN STEAD OF changing the reason why this happening. Could making things better for the average working person by enforcing fair wages and treatment for all people both sides of the border? Maybe it would be made better by making it possible to work with dignity?

[jerry611]

88. I never said I am against immigration

And you are talking abount a country in the mid-1800s where there was a ton of land. The country back then can accommodate all those people coming in.

Today. We can't even accommodate our own citizens. 40 million Americans don't have healthcare and we are going bring another 30 million people in? We are in debt by $8 trillion dollars. Our education system is a gigantic mess. Class sizes are approaching more than 40 students a teacher. We have inflation problems on the horizon and the average house costs $300,000+ to buy.

Not only this, but there is a ton of criminal activity on the border. Drugs are coming in. Human trafficking. Terrorists... you name it. And what does congress and the president do about it? Nothing? Neither party wants to do anything about it. And it is pissing me off... It appears to me that the politicians in government don't care about America anymore. They are just running it into the ground trying to milk out every cent they possibly can out of it before it crashes. Because i doubt we are going to last another 50 years the way this country is being run. It's a pathetic thing to watch. Our children are going to have a hell of a mess to clean up when they take over the world.

[Ecumenist]

95. YYou're atually tell me with what I'm assuming is a straight face

that this is all attrubutable to "illegal Immigration"? Not only that, that there is only crime trouble at that borders? There's still "a ton of land", jerry.. I live in northern california and there are literally counties up here where you can go ALL DAY WITHOUT SEEING ANOTHER PERSON ON A ROAD. Wake up, so you really expect to convince that this national debt, terroristic threats and all the various and sundry horrors that we've seen increasing in the last 6 years have always been there? Have tou been paying attention to the machinations of this republican controlled congress, senate and the government ? Are you aware that the Democrats haven't been able to even hole hearings, not even call these meetings Hearings by the republicans when they've tried to turn things around? I am not monolithic in my politics but I am realistic and can see things as they are and why they are the way they are right now.

Read PNAC, Jerry, it will go a long way to telling why we find ourselves in this situation and this is the latest in this criminal regime to disctract us from what is really important. Illegal immigration isn't important to this group neither are the reasons around it. This is part of an orchestrated attempt to help the republicans stay in power UNCHECKED AND UINBALANCED. People are falling for it because an entrenched and inherent xenophobia and racism. They're not looking at those faces and people who look like themselves.

[jerry611]

98. Cons might use it to distract...

But it looks to me like the liberals and progressives are encouraging it. Look at California legislature voting to support the protests for Monday. Watch the news on Monday...every news channel will be covering the protests. If this is such a non-issue, why are liberals and Democrats supporting the protests and hope that major cities are shut down and that corporations will be hurt? If that happens, you can forget about talking about Iraq, oil, or Karl Rove for the rest of the summer. Immigration will become the election year issue.

That is just ANOTHER reason I don't support this May 1st protest. This protest will do nothing to hurt Bush. In fact, it probably helps him. The corporations would LOVE that guest worker program. They want that cheap labor.

[Ecumenist]

107. you know, painting all the people on the left with the such

a broad brush isn't correct. Most of the people who belong to the republican party are NOT part and parcel of this driveby on my country. In fact, despite their attempts to convince us, the politicians on the right ARE NOT republicans but are, by their own words, NEOCONs. By the same token, for you to say that THE LIBERALS AND PROGRESSIVES ARE SUPPORTING the marches is COMPLETELY WRONGHEADED.

Are you sure you belong in this forum because almost everything you're saying seems to be directly from the playbook of these same neos and freeper hive mind set. There is a diversity of opinions on either side of the aisle and political rheostat. I will tell you that the issue will not be about the immigration issue. It will be about oil problems, fuel prices and all the attendant peoblems it causes, economically and socially.

[jerry611]

112. Have you looked around this forum??

Most of the posts discussing this issue in this forum is in favor of the May 1st boycott.

Also check this out...
http://www.insidebayarea.com/sanmateocountytimes/localnews/ci_3761950

And you are attacking me because you claim I paint everyone with the same brush. Yet then you also attack me, calling me a neocon, just because my view might be different from yours. And because I am against supporting illegal immigration.

[Ecumenist]

115. Ummm, I'm on this forum and tens of thousands of others

and you'll not find a monolithic, lockstep that is the same for all 80k+ members here. I haven't attacked you, just expressed my opinion baased on your statements. You're assuming that just because you read A THREAD where some have expressed a approval for the marches, that everyone feels that way. That's not even a human reality, no matter what the subject is.
Where do you live? Obviously, you don't understand societal politics northern California, California the state or by extension, the west coast.

[jerry611]

119. Florida...nm

[Ecumenist]

117. Where did I say or accuse you of being a Neocon?

Point that out to me and I already know you'll not be able to because I NEVER DID. What I said was, "In fact, despite their attempts to convince us, the politicians on the right ARE NOT republicans but are, by their own words, NEOCONs. By the same token, for you to say that THE LIBERALS AND PROGRESSIVES ARE SUPPORTING the marches is COMPLETELY WRONGHEADED."

Taken word for word from my last post.. Where does it say that you, Jerry611 are a NEOCON?

[jerry611]

118. Re-read your posts

"almost everything you're saying seems to be directly from the playbook of these same neos and freeper hive mind set."

"Don't look now but your freep is showing..."

You've read what?...maybe 5-10 posts from me, if that, on one issue, and using that you are making a very broad judgement on my entire political beliefs and philosophy. Considering the lecture you are giving me about making assumptions about people, maybe you should use some caution as well.

[Ecumenist]

120. You are making quite a leap from taking things from a playbook

and being one of them. Jerry, I call things as I see them and if I'd meant to say you were a Neocn, it would not have been left up to interpretation, trust me. It is possible to take a page out of, for example, any book, the Bible, for example AND NEITHER A CHRISTIAN NOR JEW. I'm not surprised AT ALL that you're from the East coast whenit comes to your characterisation of California. You don't know what you're talking about when you post something from the San Mateo Times. That's relatively small county on the Penisula and quite wealthy overall. There are counties here in California almost as large as your state and there is a broad diversity of opinion and thought on everything in the same way as it is in any situation or subject.

[jerry611]

121. Fair enough...

I apologize.

[Ecumenist]

122. No problem, I apologise for making you feel as if I viewed you

in that fashion. It's just that there are so many assaults the everyday man in this country that it's gotten us to the place where instead of looking at the people at the top of the power structure, we are turning on one another and it only servesto help these folks in completing their agenda.:hi:

[wickerwoman]

124. "they are refusing to learn english(sic)"!!!!!!!!

That's up there with "they choose to be gay"!!!! among the all time asinine right-wing received "wisdom".

No one "refuses" to learn anything. Have you ever worked a 60-80 hour week doing back-breaking manual labor and then gone home to crack the books? It takes full-time students 4-6 years to become reasonably fluent in any foreign language and English is consistantly rated the second most difficult language in the world (after Mandarin). Some people just aren't that great with languages. I've lived in a foreign country for almost three years and can just barely get by on the day to day stuff. God help me if I ever have to go to the hospital or get in trouble with the police. Am I "refusing" to learn Mandarin because I work full-time and am generally too tired when I go home to remember what I study? And I have the money and leisure time to at least take classes in the first place.

Come to China. You know what's the first thing you notice? All the street signs are in Chinese and English. When you ride the subway there's a short program on the TV screens teaching English idioms. Most businesses have bi-lingual signs. Is this an assault by America on traditional Chinese culture, history, language, values (blah, blah, blah) or a gracious and helpful way to treat people who are different from you (and are, after all, your guests.)

[Ecumenist]

145. Amen Bezdomny

It is difficult to even have the energy to find time to dspend time with your family when you are working like a rented mule. Yet, the same people who accuse others of trying to change the country, whichis alwayws in flux and always has been, often don't or refuse to understand what new immigrants, legal or otherwise, are going through even though they've never had to deal with the additional stressors that they likely will never know.

Many of these same peole complain about having to spend time maintaining their lawns IF it takes time from their weekend sports, barbecues or beer drinking.

[TankLV]

153. Gee - you haven't traveled much, have you?

Guess you missed the Polish and Ukrainian sections of Buffalo, Syracuse, NYC and others.

Let alone the Italian sections.

About a hundred years ago, those neighborhoods were called those names because those neighborhoods was were people of similar ancestry congregated when they first immigrated here. I know of old grandmothers and grandfathers that STILL have difficulty speaking English to this very day! And the original anti-immigration laws were enacted almost a hundred years ago to this very date because of such circumstances that "offended" the lilly white WASP sensibilities back then.

What the country needs is a return to the open immigration policies that existed a hundred years ago that allowed OUR OWN ancestors to immigrate!

[Orsino]

167. "...Allows that?"

Who cares how many different lyrics are sung to the same tune? In what way is anyone favorite diminished by the existence of others?

"These people"?

And who the heck is advocating mandatory replacement at sporting events?

I'm not gonna have to break out a gay-marriage analogy, am I? ;-)

[saltpoint]

10. And while we're at it, let's get a government that understands the words.

I'm thinkin' blue and not red.

[leveymg]

11. Do we need ANOTHER constitutional amendment?

Add this one to a ban on gay marriage and flag burning. Also, I think W Ketchup should be the official American condiment

:eyes:

[radfringe]

136. My thought exactly

any bets some reich-winger will petition or introduce legislation which makes it a illegal to sing the anthem in any language but English? or will they take it a step further and want to make it illegal to speak any language but english?

coming soon - O'Reilly declares a war on ENGLISH Language...

[Selteri]

17. I think this falls on my list somewhere between...

The dangers of rmpant parie dogs and the dangers of Ick on fish on he national food economy.

AKA It's no issue to me, it's just a song, we stole it from the brits.

[Placebo]

21. Oh my god, I actually agree with something Bush said!

This is scary.

[yurbud]

23. Koko the signing gorilla knows more English than Bush

[Julius Civitatus]

24. What the f-ck does he know? Seriously

People should be aware that English is NOT the official language of this country. Sorry, but it's true. If it was left to the founding fathers, we would be speaking Greek (look it up). The founding fathers didn't want English to be America's language (to drive a further wedge with England), and for a while proposed Greek instead.

Now Boy King George telling people what they should or shouldn't' speak. HE should learn to speak proper English first, the idiot.

[TankLV]

154. Actually, they wanted it to be GERMAN. It lost on a couple votes or

something (don't know if there was an actual "vote" on it, but I remember reading something about the English/German thing a while back).

All I know is it was very close at the time.

[951-Riverside]

27. This shit is his fault to begin with

If he didn't push for his stupid immigration reform in a lame attempt to get hispanic support NONE of this would have happened also isn't it a little strange a british producer is changing our anthem?

[redqueen]

33. I thought he was pushing the issue to distract people

from the unnecessary war in Iran he's trying to start.

[951-Riverside]

40. That too. (eom)

[Julius Civitatus]

35. This is Karl Rove's wedge issue to distract in the 2006 elections

Just like they brought gay marriage aout of the blue in 2004, they are demonizing immigrants (not just illegal, all immigrants) to distract in the 2006 midterms.

Make no mistake: this is a completely fake and manufactured issue.

[951-Riverside]

44. Re: "they are demonizing immigrants"

When?

I'd love to see quotes.

[Julius Civitatus]

50. Yes, Rove plan is to demonize BROWN immigrants, and quite

specially Hispanic. Quotes? Are you joking? Do you really think they go on interviews saying "we are here to demonize them brown Mexicans." Give me a break.

After Mexicans, most illegals in this country are Asian and for the former Soviet Republics. But they are not brown. Nobody is complaining about illegal immigrants from Eastern Europe. Here in NYC, Polish and Russian illegal immigrants are everywhere. Parts of Brooklyn only use the Cyrillic Russian script. You go to Conney Island and you would think you were in Odessa, yet nobody is bothered about an "invasion." If they were brown, things would be quite different.

There's the mantle of "it's only about the illegals," but it seems to me that there's a serious backslash against the entire Latino culture, as we are witnessing (language issues, anthem in Spanish, etc). None of these these things were front-page issues a month ago. Now these are the top headlines.

Very convenient. This is the "gay marriage" issue of 2006.

After November 2006, all this talk will be relegated back to the Lou Dobbs hour, just like nobody is talking about gay marriage today. Wait and see.

[Ecumenist]

146. Julius, that exactly what I was saying in an earlier post on this

thread. Here in Northern California, we are rife with eastern Europe, Ukrainian, Kygyrzstan, Hungary, Poland, Romania... and you'd be AMAZED how many are not only illegal but at least in a small subculture, involved in illiegal activities. There's happening business in false documents, prostitution, car theft rings, drugs--you name it. The cheekiest thing is when I've actually had an ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT FROM ROMANIA actually have the nerve to tell me to go back to Africa. That broad is lucky that I was a Christian because otherwise, you'd have been reading about it.

While I don't begrudge anyone the right and ability to have children, many of the Ukrainian families are HUGE and they get by on welfare and foodstamps. They regularly raid church related food pantries and charity clothes closets, in caravans. I believe that the many of these families need the things the're given BUT many of them take these items and sell them. How do I know this? I was engaged to a man in the late 80's and saw this with my own eyes and still see it happening today.

You don't hear or see anyone complaining about these immigrants and the only thing I can conclude is that this group looks like thee people complaining. I don't agree with these xenophobes at all BUT i say that if you're going to make an issue of this, make an issue of ALL THE ILLEGALS, including the ones who look remarkably like the person you see in the mirror. Alot of the illegal immigrants come from the UK and there is a substantial population of Canadians living in the Gold country but again, they don't seem to get the reaction from the anti immigration types. I wonder why?:eyes:

[TankLV]

156. Maybe they don't demonize these peoples because the number of them

doing this are miniscule and the total numbers of Eastern European immigrants are MINISCULE compared to the ones from SOUTH AMERICA?

Way to go - demonize whole OTHER groups WITHOUT ANY SUPPORTING EVIDENCE, just your PREJUDICE!

Nice!

[Ecumenist]

157. TankLV, what are you talking about?

What are you implying?

[Julius Civitatus]

158. Exactly

I agreee.

[RaleighNCDUer]

65. They demonize immigrants the same way they connected

Saddam with 9/11.

With inference, suggestion, code words and grammatical links which don't exactly say what the average listener hears.

[TankLV]

155. Umm - making illegals a FELONY ring a bell?

You DO know that is the REPUKE bill before Congress, don't you?

[onehandle]

29. Why not German?

Free Republic Anthem

Die Fahne hoch die Reihen fest geschlossen
S. A. marschiert mit ruhig festem Schritt
Kam'raden die Rotfront und Reaktion erschossen
Marschier'n im Geist in unsern Reihen mit

Die Strasse frei den braunen Batallionen
Die Strasse frei dem Sturmabteilungsmann
Es schau'n auf's Hackenkreuz voll Hoffung schon Millionen
Der Tag fur Freiheit und fur Brot bricht an

Zum letzen Mal wird nun Appell geblasen
Zum Kampfe steh'n wir alle schon bereit
Bald flattern Hitler-fahnen Uber allen Strassen
Die Knechtschaft dauert nur mehr kurze Zeit

Die Fahne hoch die Reihen fest geschlossen
S. A. marschiert mit ruhig festem Schritt
Kam'raden die Rotfront und Reaktion erschossen
Marschier'n im Geist in unsern Reihen mit

---

ENGLISH TRANSLATION

Flag high, ranks closed,
The S.A. marches with silent solid steps.
Comrades shot by the red front and reaction
March in spirit with us in our ranks.

The street free for the brown battalions,
The street free for the Storm Troopers.
Millions, full of hope, look up at the swastika;
The day breaks for freedom and for bread.

For the last time the call will now be blown;
For the struggle now we all stand ready.
Soon will fly Hitler-flags over every street;
Slavery will last only a short time longer.

Flag high, ranks closed,
The S.A. marches with silent solid steps.
Comrades shot by the red front and reaction
March in spirit with us in our ranks.

[ProudDad]

128. Sounds like the nazis

copied that unsingable, flag waving obscenity bush loves so much.



Piss on all flags!



I prefer this anthem written by an old friend of mine...

http://www.fiskemusic.com/music.html#earthcd

There's a link to play the mp3 version of Earth Anthem at this site.

[raccoon]

141. Just the thing for the Empire! :sarcasm: nt

[megatherium]

34. How 'bout writing it in Klingon? nt

[area51]

84. "... writing it in Klingon?"

Yes! :thumbsup: ;)

[Endangered Specie]

37. At least he didn't want it in German

[utopian]

38. But we need to protect our anthem

And our flag.

And the institution of marriage.

And our language. :sarcasm:

What a stinky load of red herring. It's a fucking song, and a shitty one at that. I say we change it to "This Land Is Your Land".

What we need to protect is our rights and those of our brothers and sisters.

[trogdor]

51. I think it should be 4'33" by John Cage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4%E2%80%B233%E2%80%B3"

Lyrics:

[Critters2]

166. Great choice!

Better music than that thing we have now!

[liberal N proud]

39. Merkins should speak in merkin languages

[Demeter]

42. There goes the Big Tent--Blowing in the Wind

That was the most spontaneous, off-the-cuff, unrehearsed and honest remark Dubya has ever made.

[redqueen]

46. Well... that and the one about him being the dictator.

Or was that planned?

[Demeter]

47. It Sounded Planned to Me

It was far too snide and practiced to be off-the-cuff.

[redqueen]

48. That's what I thought about his "Elites, i call you my base" comment.

So despicable...

[genieroze]

49. Maybe he shoulda be lernin inglish.

[suston96]

54. Here's a thought...

Why should an American national anthem be in ENGLISH?

We Americans don't even have our own language, so why all this fuss over the language the people speak...that is to say, the language that many, if not most speak?

I have that anthem in my bookmarks and I will be playing it all day Monday to celebrate and support all those "Spanish speaking" Americans and all those "Spanish speaking" uh, guests who all work so hard for us and who will parade on May 1.

[MissB]

56. I think Bush should learn English too.

It'd be good for him.

[redqueen]

59. What makes you think the preznit dudn't speak English?

;)

[Ecumenist]

60. That's a cheeky thing to say considering that the gibberish he mumbles

Doesn't approximate english in an understandable fashion approaching what the most of us recognise comes near the level of the average 18 month old toddler.

[stopbush]

61. An English translation of bush's full remarks will be issued later. n/t

[Bush_MUST_Go]

69. I agree with bush also.

There is only ONE National Anthem. Just like there is only ONE National Bird & ONE National flower, etc.

Of course, there are many different patriotic songs & those can be in various languages.

[Kahuna]

109. I don't understand how people can get all worked up over a song,

a flag and a pledge and yet are so willing to piss on the constitution which is legally what America is about. That really boggles my mind. Song = sacred. Constitution = who cares? How shallow and ignorant Americans have become.

[DRoseDARs]

70. And the Bible should be read in ancient Aramaic... so shut the fuck up. nt

:)

[tanyev]

138. Yup. Nobody complains about the Bible being translated into

every language on the planet. Is the Star Spangled Banner more holy and sacred than the Bible?

Personally, I don't care if people sing it in Pig Latin. I certainly won't sing it again until Bushie Boy leaves the White House, preferably in disgrace.

[mbperrin]

149. NOW yur talkin'!

Yes, indeed, the original Aramaic, Hebrew, Greek is the only way to fly. AND no more O Christmas Tree, dammit! It's O Tannebaum!!!

And English has to give back all the words ending in -tion (they're really French that we stole), and a whole bunch more! Better bone up on Old English, boys, it's the real stuff!!!

[Jack Rabbit]

71. Who cares what he thinks?

I don't.

If someone wants to sing The Star Spangled Banner in Spanish, French or Tibetan, it's all right with me.

[Ignacio Upton]

77. Well, I don't think that the Spanish version should receive equal time

English, while not being the official language of our country, is still our main language, and if you immigrate here, you have to learn it. Tell Mexico to play their national anthem in Spanish and they will say no. Or tell Britain or France to play their national anthems in Arabic and they will say no (since both countries have a lot of Muslim immigrants.)

Issue aside, Bush is just speaking out on this in the name of pandering. He can't afford to lose his base over immigration, as he is more aligned with the pro-cheap labor corporatist wing of the party.

[Imagevision]

78. Should be "sung" in english ---> duh!!! --no shit!!!!

[IndianaGreen]

81. Seiously, how many of us can even sing the goddamned thing in English?

I vote for America the Beautiful, or This Land is Your Land as the new national anthem.

[ProudDad]

130. This land is our land is much better

We should take our land back...


The verses usually left out of Woody's original lyrics:


One bright Sunday morning in the shadows of the steeple
By the relief office, I seen my people
As they stood there hungry, I stood there whistling
this land was made for you and me

I've roamed and rambled, and I've followed the beer cans
To the toxic cities, from the poisoned farmlands
And all around me, were billboards reading
This land was made for you and me

As I was walking I saw a sign there
And on that sign it said "no trespassin'"
But on the other side it didn't say nothin'
That side was made for you and me


And of course:

I n d i a n v e r s i o n

This land is your land, it once was my land,
before we sold you Manhattan Island,
you pushed our nations to the reservations,
this land was stole by you from me.

[raccoon]

142. How about "Born in the USA"?

I've suggested "My Hometown" before; nobody except me seems to be enthused about it.

Many people, including at least one in the Reagan administration, mistakenly think that "Born in the USA" is a nice catchy little patriotic song. They obviously haven't listened to the lyrics.

[Julius Civitatus]

83. In English, just like the Bible!!!

Bush added: "If Jeysus wrote the Bible in English, then that's good enough for me!"

[pauliedangerously]

161. Delicious

Nice one Julius!!!

[Quantess]

91. B.F.D.

:boring:
This is not newsworthy. Who really cares about whether a national anthem is being sung in a language other than English? If I were a native-Spanish-speaking American, I would think it was pretty cool. Anyone who is is upset by this, needs to get a life, and find something truly worth worrying about.
:boring:

[HuffleClaw]

92. they are bound and determined to SCAPEGOAT america's

immigrants. another leader, some years ago, scapegoated another group of people too as i recall.

[savemefromdumbya]

99. Can we have a version in Irish Gaelic?

[Coastie for Truth]

101. Oh Bull Roar

When I was a kid - growing up the Rust Belt - where most of the "Grandparents" were immigrants - we used to have all manner of foreign language newspapers, foreign language store fronts, evens (sheesh) kids in school used to sing "The Star Spangled Banner" and "America The Beautiful" etc. in the ethnic languages (yes - languages - PLURAL) of the neighborhood. And the Grandmas would be there with tears streaming down their cheeks.

My Grand Dad(who was an ESL teacher for the union) used to say that you were not truly literate unless you read, wrote, spoke, and understood at least seven languages.

By the time I was in 2nd grade I could sing "The Star Spangled Banner" and "America The Beautiful" in a bunch of languages - it really sounds neat in Italian.

BTW - in my state of birth - Pennsylvania (not California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, or Florida - but Pennsylvania - in the northeast) - the Pledge of Allegiance and legal documents are legal in both:

1. English, and
2. The language the "Affiant" knows best.

And, that's been the law since the 19th Century waves of German, Polish, Slavic, Russian, and Italian migration to Pennsylvania.

[alarcojon]

102. Nice wording from the BBC

Between weightier matters like Iran's nuclear threat and prices at the pump, the beleaguered president stood in the Rose Garden of the White House on Friday, looking very earnest.

He tried to nip this part of the immigration debate in the bud by declaring flatly that the anthem should be sung in English and that anyone coming to live in this country should learn English.

He stumbled on the word English but the point was taken.

:rofl:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4956834.stm

[kineneb]

103. let's just dump Francis Scott Key's lyrics and go back to originals

If we really want the "English" words...

(I e-mail this out every July 4th to select friends...)

from:
http://www.potw.org/archive/potw234.html

The ANACREONTIC SONG

Words by RALPH TOMLINSON ESQ

1.      To ANACREON in Heav'n, where he sat in full Glee,
          A few Sons of Harmony sent a Petition,
          That He their Inspirer and Patron wou'd be;
          When this Answer arriv'd from the JOLLY OLD GRECIAN
                        "Voice, Fiddle, and Flute,
                        "No longer be mute,
         "I'll lend you my Name and inspire you to boot,
         "And, besides, I'll instruct you like me, to intwine
         "The Myrtle of VENUS with BACCHUS's Vine.
                                                   
2.        The news through OLYMPUS immediately flew;
          When OLD THUNDER pretended to give himself Airs_
          If these Mortals are suffer'd their Scheme to pursue,
          The Devil a Goddess will stay above Stairs.
                            "Hark! already they cry,
                            "In Transports of Joy
         "Away to the Sons of ANACREON we'll fly,
         "And there, with good Fellows, we'll learn to intwine
         "The Myrtle of VENUS with BACCHUS'S Vine.

3.       "The YELLOW-HAIR'D GOD and his nine fusty Maids
         "From HELICON'S Banks will incontinent flee,
         "IDALIA will boast but of tenantless Shades,
         "And the bi-forked Hill a mere Desart will be
                      "My Thunder, no fear on't,
                      "Shall soon do it's Errand,
         "And, dam'me! I'll swinge the Ringleaders I warrant,
         "I'll trim the young Dogs, for thus daring to twine
         "The Myrtle of VENUS with BACCHUS'S Vine.

4.        APOLLO rose up; and said, "Pr'ythee ne'er quarrel,
         "Good King of the Gods with my Vot'ries below:
         "Your Thunder is useless_then, shewing his Laurel,
          Cry'd. "Sic evitabile fulmen, you know!
                      "Then over each Head
                      "My Laurels I'll spread
         "So my Sons from your Crackers no Mischief shall dread,
         "Whilst snug in their Club-Room, they Jovially twine
         "The Myrtle of VENUS with BACCHUS'S Vine.

5.        Next MOMUS got up, with his risible Phiz,
          And swore with APOLLO he'd cheerfull join_
         "The full Tide of Harmony still shall be his,
         "But the Song, and the Catch, & the Laugh shall bemine
                     "Then, JOVE, be not jealous
                      Of these honest Fellows,
          Cry'd JOVE, "We relent, since the Truth you now tell us;
         "And swear, by OLD STYX, that they long shall entwine
         "The Myrtle of VENUS with BACCHUS'S Vine.
                                         
6.        Ye Sons of ANACREON, then, join Hand in Hand;
          Preserve Unanimity, Friendship, and Love!
         'Tis your's to support what's so happily plann'd;
          You've the Sanction of Gods, and the FIAT of JOVE.
                          While thus we agree
                          Our Toast let it be.
          May our Club flourish happy, united and free!
          And long may the Sons of ANACREON intwine
          The Myrtle of VENUS with BACCHUS'S Vine.


 

[lynne]

105. This isn't the first Spanish translation of The Star Spangled Banner -

- according to about.com. This is either the 4th or 5th one. The other's didn't catch on. This one won't, either.

I agree with Bush. I feel I would be disrespectful of the culture of another nation were I to walk into their country and sing their National Anthem in English in lieu of in its native tongue.

I don't think it too much to ask that we have the same respect given to our anthem. Especially by those who are advocating that they wish to become a part of our nation.

[Solon]

123. Your excuse makes no logical sense...

First, the American culture, and language is a combination of all cultures that came here before, and also, just an FYI, quite a few of those people we call immigrants have been in this country for well over a hundred years, many didn't even move in order to become members of the nation.

We are such a nation of many different cultures, are we going to rename Los Angeles as Angel City? How about my state, should it be renamed the people who build long canoes as that is what the name Missouri means in the Illiniwek language? After all, English is the only "PURE" language allowed, right?

Seriously, what culture should be respected, the Tex-Mex culture of Texas, or the Mexican/Pueblo cultures that dominate much of the southwest? Are we to make Puerto Ricans speak English by fiat? Oh shit, I think I just used a few more foriegn words!

[Kahuna]

106. He's an idiot. Isn't this the same guy who called us rascist over

the Dubai deal. :crazy:

[Ecumenist]

108. he can't make up what passes for his mind.

[Raine]

113. ROFLMAO Chimp himself

can't even speak English, he's a fine one to tell others anything about language. :eyes:

[jdelullo]

125. Hypocracy

Listen, our National Anthem is in English, always has been. But, is English really our language? Didn't we "steal" it from the UK some 200 years ago? So unless Bush plans on learning some Cherokee and translating the Anthem, he better get used to Latinos saying it in Spanish.....its not that big a deal. This country is a melting pot, its about time it starts acting like it.

PS when I was in high school spanih we opened the day by saying the pledge of allegiance in spanish and I can still receite it to this day....

[Spider Jerusalem]

126. No, English is the predominant language in the US...

because the original thirteen states were former British colonies whose inhabitants were predominantly of English, Irish and Scots ancestry. Just like Spanish is the predominant language in Mexico because Mexico was a Spanish colony, and they speak Portuguese in Brazil because it was a colony of Portugal. Might as well ask 'Is Spanish really the language of Mexico? Shouldn't they be speaking Nahuatl, or Maya?' Which is, of course, ridiculous.

[Julius Civitatus]

127. Spanish was also spoken in California, Arizona, Nevada, NM, TX, LA, FL

way BEFORE the puritans ever set foot in Massachusetts.

I find it amazing how still today we follow an extremely anglo-centric history of the USA, when a huge portion of the US territory spoke Spanish way before there were English-speaking colonies n the northeast. Furthermore, the Spaniards had active colonies and very successful cities going on all over the US map way before the puritans had their fundie communities.

I can't believe people still buy the whole thanksgiving turkey bullshit of the pilgrims, when Europeans were already having their thanksgivings a century earlier in El Paso, Texas since 1541. But of course, those were not anglo saxon europeans, so they don't really count:

http://adventuretravel.about.com/od/historicaladventure1/a/112504.htm

http://hnn.us/articles/406.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanksgiving

This is just one of example of many. America is not just the anglo-saxon culture. This country was built by many different peoples, and in the last 150 years it was populated by millions of immigrants from all over the planet. Most Americans today have immigrant descendants, many within a couple of generations. It's the so-called cultural "melting pot."

All this sudden scandal about immigration is a Rovian ploy for the 2006 elections, a wedge issue to drive the racist and xenophobic vote towards the Republican party. Immigration in 2006 is what gay marriage was in 2004. After November, nobody will be talking about immigration in the media for a while. Wait and see.

[Spider Jerusalem]

137. I'm aware of that, thanks.

And don't you mean 'English colonists', not 'Puritans', and 'Jamestown', and not 'Massachusetts'? (Last I checked, 1607 was a bit earlier than 1620.)

[ProudDad]

129. I prefer this anthem

written by an old friend of mine...

http://www.fiskemusic.com/music.html#earthcd

There's a link to play the mp3 version of Earth Anthem at this site.

[rodeodance]

131. Bush Enters Anthem Fight on Language

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/29/washington/29bush.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin

April 29, 2006
Bush Enters Anthem Fight on Language
By JIM RUTENBERG

WASHINGTON, April 28—President Bush has never been shy about speaking Spanish in public, and he is known to love all kinds of music: country, folk and even Tex-Mex style rock. But one thing you will not find on his iPod: "Nuestro Himno," the new Spanish version of the national anthem that was released on Friday as part of the growing immigrants' rights movement.

Asked at a news briefing in the Rose Garden on Friday whether he believed the anthem would have the same value in Spanish as it did in English, Mr. Bush said flatly, "No, I don't."

"And I think people who want to be a citizen of this country ought to learn English," Mr. Bush said. "And they ought to learn to sing the national anthem in English."

Mr. Bush has tried to occupy a middle ground in the raging debate over immigration, supporting legislation that would grant immigrant workers temporary legal status and perhaps a path to citizenship, while pushing for immigrants to learn English also pressing for more steps to stop the flow of newcomers over the border. But his statement about the anthem was taken by members of both parties as a clear signal to conservatives that he stood with them on what many of them see as a clash between national identity and multiculturalism.

[rodeodance]

132. more----I think it is wedge issue--with a big P. Patriatism.

.....Mr. Bush's comments were striking for a president who has embraced Spanish in his political life. Mr. Bush grew up in Midland, Tex., alongside Spanish-speaking children. As a politician who became governor and ran for president aiming to build a broader Republican coalition, he seized every chance to win over the fast-growing Hispanic population.

"He recognized that Texas was rapidly becoming a state that would have more Hispanics and more African-Americans than it would Anglos," said Senator Lamar Alexander, Republican of Tennessee, who plans to introduce a resolution on Monday "to remind the country" why the national anthem should be always sung in English.

Mr. Bush took aim at Hispanics as an important voting bloc during the last two president campaigns. Mr. Bush has starred in his own Spanish-language advertising, and he was the first president to give his weekly radio address in Spanish. (The Spanish wire service Agencia EFE once said he spoke the language poorly, "but with great confidence.")

[grasswire]

133. look at this startling statement

"he is known to love all kinds of music: country, folk and even Tex-Mex style rock."

Huh? He's known to love all kinds of music? Sez who? I'll bet it's not true.

[rodeodance]

134. nominated

[rodeodance]

135. "Nuestro Himno" or "Our Anthem." note the "OUR"

[skip fox]

139. Damn Straight!! Jesus spoke in English, just ask W. ("It's in the Bible.

In RED!!"), and if it's good enough for Jesus . . .

[suegeo]

140. A cure for cancer, growing enough food, clean air

Why oh why are we cursed with this nincompoop Bush?

There are so many things we should be working on, in order to leave the camp site in better shape than when we found it.

How about ensuring each child gets an education that includes the ability to speak at least one other language other than their native one?

Pathetic.

[raccoon]

143. All this brouhaha about a real non-issue, singing the

Star Spangled Banner in Spanish--

Does anybody besides me think the timing of this non-newsworthy but inflammatory story is REAL CONVENIENT, right before the planned May 1 boycott by Hispanics?

[kskiska]

144. He didn't mind Spanish when he was campaigning

(snip)

Mr. Bush's comments were striking for a president who has embraced Spanish in his political life. Mr. Bush grew up in Midland, Tex., alongside Spanish-speaking children. As a politician who became governor and ran for president aiming to build a broader Republican coalition, he seized every chance to win over the fast-growing Hispanic population.

(snip)

Mr. Bush took aim at Hispanics as an important voting bloc during the last two president campaigns. Mr. Bush has starred in his own Spanish-language advertising, and he was the first president to give his weekly radio address in Spanish. (The Spanish wire service Agencia EFE once said he spoke the language poorly, "but with great confidence.")

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/29/washington/29bush.html?hp&ex=1146369600&en=de88be2e28ed3412&ei=5094&partner=homepage

[Coventina]

147. Bingo. It all depends to whom he is pandering.

The man is beneath contempt.

[sweetheart]

150. Oh say can you see, in the bomb's early light,..

What so proudly we hailed, in the twilights last gleaming,
Whose prison walls and gun towers thru the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched no enemy came streaming?
And the rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our guns were still there.
Oh, say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

[Exiled in America]

151. RE BUSH: READ THE BIBLE IN ORIGINAL HEBREW / ARAMAIC OR STFU.

[termo]

159. the bible is in greek no ?

[dmallind]

160. depends

Depends which book of the wholly bibble you mean. It was written over a span of many centuries after all, so not in a single language.

Oh and to stay on topic don't give a rat's patoot what language anyone sings the anthem in. None of them will get any widespread acceptance in a country which is for the most part so woefully ignorant of other languages.

[politrix]

162. "Oe're The Land Of The Free (white people)

"And, the home of the slaves"


That was the state of the union when that song was written. It's garbage. Just like the Declaration Of Independence".

Written by slave-owners who signed it and then went home and raped their slaves.

[dmallind]

165. Not germane though

Yeah but we can't throw out everything somebody did because they were bastards in other areas. As somebody else said, Key wasn't exactly a great poet, and the tune is notoriously unsingable and of dubious heritage. These are valid criticisms of the anthem per se. Who owned slaves and when and how fair society was are important points true, but bugger all to do with an anthem. If you want to discard the cultural contributions of anyone who wasn't a politically and morally pure progressive, then the vast majority of anything worth a crap in art, literature, music etc goes out the window. I'm not willing to lose the glorious operatic contributions of Wagner for example just to somehow get back at him, 120+ years after he's dead, for being anti-semitic. a) It does nothing to stop him or others from having been so b) If it did, the price is too high. c) I have no guilty conscience to assuage. I drive a car made by a company that assisted Hitler. They don't now and punishing them would have no impact at all on those who did. Same goes for the cultural artifacts of slave owners or racists - singing an anthem, reading a poem or enjoying the liberties created by slaveowners does nothing to encourage or condone slavery. refusing to do so cannot obliterate one second of slavery nor remove one racist idea from those who still harbor them so why bother?

Now sure b) would not apply for this rather ill-constructed anthem but a) and c) certainly do.

[expatriot]

163. I am monolingual English and i don't see why people care

whether the U.S. is a bilingual society or not. Just because we have always been predominately English-speaking doesn't mean things can't change. It's not like the other bilingual societies out there have always been bilingual... some demographic shift occurs and then they are bilingual. Why are people so afraid of change?

[BrightKnight]

164. pure meaningless nothing n/t

[geniph]

169. DU'er geniph says Bush "ought to speak English"

I think people who want to be President ought to be fully literate in the language, don't you?

[Tight_rope]

170. This coming from a jackass who can barely speak English himself!

:argh:

[brentspeak]

172. Is this the latest "War On Christmas" diversionary tactic?

BREAKING NEWS ON FOX: We've just received more information on the "War Against The National Anthem"...