List of accusations of GIs in Iraq stuns experts

[Barrett808]

The accounts are brutal: An Iraqi man dragged from his home, executed and made to look as if he were an insurgent. Three prisoners killed by their Army captors. A team of revenge-seeking Marines going home to home, shooting down unarmed Iraqi men, women, children.

The recent flurry of accusations against U.S. servicemen has stunned military analysts and experts. Many see a critical new point in the war — though few agree whether it shows the toll of combat stress, commanders resolved to stamp out war crimes, or, as some claim, an overzealous second-guessing of the troops.

But the number and gravity of the latest allegations have drawn the greatest outcry against U.S. military actions since the Abu Ghraib prison abuses.

“All of a sudden there seem to be charges right and left,” said Loren Thompson at the Lexington Institute, a defense think tank in Arlington, Va. “It clearly has happened in some cases. But it’s hard to tell whether this is a pattern of wrongdoing on our part or just a pattern of closer supervision.”

(more)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13506794

[MADem]

1. They know the situation is untenable; they know about this shit...

U.S. Sen. Barbara Boxer released documents today that appear to show that the Army completed its investigation in September 2005 into the deaths two years ago of two California National Guard soldiers in Iraq, but waited nearly nine months to inform the family of its conclusion that the two Americans had been killed by Iraqi forces during a joint patrol.

"The family was not told the truth," Boxer, D-Calif., told reporters during a conference call. "It's troubling that the Pentagon would withhold this information from the family. It's troubling that Specialist McCaffrey told his family that he had been attacked twice before by Iraqi soldiers. It's troubling that it took the involvement of a Senate office to get the autopsy and a written report about his death." http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/06/21/MNGJMJI2PB4.DTL

And they see no way out, and it ain't getting any better over there:

Iraqi Government Declares State of Emergency

BAGHDAD, Iraq, June 23 — The Iraqi government declared a state of emergency in Baghdad after American forces were involved in quelling a firefight in the city's center.

Elsewhere in Iraq, at least 12 people died and 24 were wounded after a bomb exploded just outside in a Sunni mosque in the village where Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was killed. And at least 10 people were killed by a car bomb in the southern city of Basra, news services reported.

The American military announced today that two soldiers were killed by a roadside bomb in Baghdad, and reported the deaths on Wednesday of a marine who was killed in combat operations in al-Anbar province and of a soldier in Baghdad, whose death was unrelated to fighting.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/23/world/middleeast/23cnd-iraq.html?hp&ex=1151121600&en=8fa854281d3e95cf&ei=5094&partner=homepage

[cantstandbush]

32. Not much new here. same shit went on in Viet Nam. nt

[radwriter0555]

2. Why are the troops held to a higher standard than their masters? The

regime is corrupt and abberated, so why would anyone be shocked when the US troops follow the examples set by a criminal administration?

Just as the bush admin gets away with political and government assassination, the US military gets away with the real deal.

It's pretty bad and getting worse.

[reality based]

3. Their role models have not exactly been paragons of virtue.

Those who have perpetrated unjust war are murderers and deserve their days in the dock at the Hague, from which there can be no Presidential pardon. These incidents are not surprising given the lack of "core values" at the top.

[AmandaRuth]

4. what does anyone expect - these are 18 year old kids

Marines are trained to be the first responders in the most brutal of combat situations. That's what they are trained for. They are not trained for peacekeeping. If these accusations are true, I am in no way excusing what happened, but for petes sake these kids are 3 years older than my daughter. Add to that the stress of their environment and the culture of corruption of their leaders, can anyone be surprised when stuff like this happens? These kids MUST come home as soon as possible.

[Minnesota Libra]

5. I still think at least some if not most of the "war crimes" have been....

.....committed by "security forces" over there.

There have been some reports of "security forces" who, because of equipment, look and act very much like American Military forces. I know some here won't agree with my assessment and that's fine, but this is my opinion none the less.

[daleo]

23. Negroponte would have no problem lending them the uniforms. n/t

[jobycom]

6. This is what happens in every war

this is why you don't start wars. Someone should tell Republicans that.

[wickerwoman]

7. Dear Mr. Thompson,

"But it’s hard to tell whether this is a pattern of wrongdoing on our part or just a pattern of closer supervision."

Doesn't the second option also mean that there is a pattern of wrongdoing? Aren't the real options 1.) we've been doing this for ages and we're just now getting caught and 2.) we've been doing this for ages and we're just now getting caught. And isn't that in fact one option?

Back to the think tank with you. Clearly, you haven't thought enough.

[Terran1212]

8. After Abu Ghraib, many more torture stories came out

It seems like one big story has to break before the others are allowed to come into the limelight.

[saigon68]

29. Lots of Criminals

They will be coming home soon to wreak havoc on their tormentors

Ask John Muhammad or Tim McVeigh

[Matriot]

9. As a service member

I hear stories from fellow soldiers who have been over there and it's actually much worse than what the news portrays. In the past when speaking with my grandfather and my father's friends who have been to Vietnam, the same situation is happening here. Our soldiers view the Iraqis, as less than human beings and they're all categorized together in a group as "them" or "those people", the same that happened in Vietnam. Many soldiers do this to save their sanity because in reality they can't picture killing other human beings. By all means it's not right. It's gotten to a point where soldiers don't even value life. How can they though? Where I'm stationed I know that there is no support for soldiers with PTSD, nor is there a screening process for those that might be suffering from it. Instead, I hear all the time of soldiers' hatred towards the Iraqis, all of them, and meanwhile the Army isn't doing a damn thing to help them realize that what they've done isn't right. As a matter of fact, soldiers will turn their backs on these news stories of Iraqi abuse as the Iraqis deserve it, just so they don't have to face their own actions.

The other thing is that there is no justice system over there. Iraqis, based on what I've heard, are being detained without protection from our soldiers and that's only if they make it to being detained, if you get my meaning.

It's obvious that the soldiers can't handle combat and it's reached a point to where the Iraqi people will never be helped by the U.S. because in todays military they aren't even viewed as people anymore. There is no other choice but to bring the soldiers home, otherwise there is going to be more and more abuse. Further, we'll have soldiers that lose more and more of their humanity. It's no wonder that soldiers come home and kill their families. They don't value human life anymore.

I can tell you another thing and that's the fact that many soldiers feel betrayed by the government for sending them out there for no reason. Some soldiers have told me that they saw weapons of mass destruction, but in my mind if it were true the media would have been all over it. You know they messed with the soldiers to give them a cause to kill.

In all honesty what can we do to stop this? Is there any organization with credibility that would go to Iraq and build up the cases against our soldiers? I figure if that happened, public figures would have no choice but to step down once when they find that Iraqi abuse is much larger than everyone actually thinks it is. You know I wouldn't be surprised if the government already knew but refused to let everyone else know.

Either way, it's been going on and it's still going on, from what I've understood even sanctioned by commands. It's got to stop and the only way is to expose it, the problem is how.

[atreides1]

12. Bush makes all the decisions

"Is there any organization with credibility that would go to Iraq and build up the cases against our soldiers?"

It wouldn't matter if the Pope, the Dalai Lama,and the Archbishop of Canterbury went in there, the problem is right here at home with the people that continue to support Bush and his Republican rubber stampers.

The biggest problem is Bush himself, as he said in Hungary he does what HE thinks is right, he will
only listen to a higher power.

The troops need to start writing back to family and friends and make it crystal clear about what is going on, the only ones who can save you and your buddies now, are you and your buddies. You cannot
depend on the Congress, you cannot trust your commanders, the media, and in some cases you won't be able to trust your own families. It's up to the troops now, they have to decide if they want to be
cannon fodder for a corrupt administration, or in they truly want to defend America from all enemies
both foreign and DOMESTIC.

[rodeodance]

19. yes, the real power is with Bush-he alone Could stop this --if he had the

WILL to do so.

....The biggest problem is Bush himself, as he said in Hungary he does what HE thinks is right, he will
only listen to a higher power.

[BeyondGeography]

13. Great post; nothing better reflects the impossibility of this situation

Meantime, Rove plays the "cut and run" card thinking it might help with the mid-terms. One wonders if the man ever had a soul.

Keep writing, Matriot.

[Hekate]

14. Please come home safely, Matriot. We need your voice.

:hug: Your fellow servicemembers need your voice.

Hekate

[Matriot]

17. You know what I wish Hekate?

I wish I knew how to change the world. It's just that I see my fellow service members not getting the care and treatment that they need to bring them back to humanity. Then they go back to the states angry and full of hate.

Just the overall treatment of soldiers in the military is unacceptable. We're numbers, nothing more. People get promoted in the military by kissing ass, what organization they're in (like the masons), gender and race, instead of what they've accomplished or how professional they are. There's a total system break down that has allowed the demoralization of our soldiers and produced incompetent leaders. It's who you are, not what you are. I almost feel it was made to be that way to better make us follow where the government wants us to go. It used to be that the majority of the leaders spoke out to take care of their soldiers, instead soldiers are being abused and harassed all in an effort to make the leader look better and attain that next higher position and leaders are getting away with it. Tell me how do you change a systematic problem when commands refuse to recognize it and the systems that were set up to protect us, fail because they don't want to deal with the overwhelming issues that are popping up?

[pokercat999]

18. Pawns always were, always will be, nothing more ...pawns/nt

[Matriot]

20. We weren't pawns before

I was in during the first gulf war and came back in service the second time. It used to be that the leadership actually cared about the soldiers. We were a tight knit organization that bonded together. Now we suffer from the abuses of our leaders because they're out to make a name for themselves and not make waves for what they know is wrong.

[pokercat999]

25. One word...Vietnam...nt

[Hekate]

21. I believe the civilian leadership MUST be changed

My heart goes out to you and the other troops. My congresswoman is on your side already, so I know there's one voice for you in the House. Lois Capps is tight with our local VFP -- always has been (long story). She really listens to their concerns, although as she says, she is outnumbered by Republicans.

Speaking of the Vets for Peace, I met them during the run-up to the invasion of Iraq. They were the group marching with the US flags, which I really appreciated because I feel so strongly that we need to be able to take back the symbols of our own nation. They are among the finest bunch of people I've ever known. When you are finally home and settled (God willing that it be soon) you might want to look them up. They more than anyone want to see active duty personnel and returning vets treated right.

I'm aware of some of what you refer to. It gets discussed at DU, and these issues are of deep concern among the vets I've come to know. The public needs to be made aware through letters to the editor and by whatever other means possible. And most of all our political leaders need to be leaned on, and hard. More than anything else, the entire Bush administration has got to go. I lay the degradation of our military directly at the evil feet of Cheney and Rumsfeld.

:hug:

Hekate

http://www.vfpsb.org/index.html
http://www.veteransforpeace.org

[stepnw1f]

22. They Need to Be Changed, and Prosecuted for War Crimes

This Chickenhawk GOP Exclusive crowd needs a major kick in the ass... behind bars for life.

[Matriot]

24. Thanks for the websites

signed the petition on VFP

[newspeak]

28. hello matriot

:hi: How you doing? Hope to see you soon.

[creeksneakers2]

10. I don't see how false accusations can be ruled out

If Iraqis are trying to kill our troops, isn't also possible that there are some who would level false accusations? I'm not saying that's what happened, but I think it should be included on the list of possibilities.

[acmejack]

11. I think you should believe what the matriot says.

That is the unvarnished truth of warfare. Life means nothing, not even your own. But most especially not theirs.
Thanks for your service, Matriot.

[teryang]

15. "We're taking the gloves off"

This was Dick Cheney's official pronouncement when we went into Afghanistan. Prisoners were summarily executed in the early days of the war there. The accounts of corpses of prisoners being found with their hands ziptied behind their backs with bullet wounds in their heads after interrogation by American forces were reported on television without comment.

If that wasn't a clue, perhaps the arbitrary procedures and human rights abuses at Guantanamo Bay could have been an indication of the terror to come.

In Afghanistan family get togethers such as a marriage ceremonies were subjected to American bombing attacks.

And if we thought that rejection of the Geneva Convention and the International Criminal Court by the White House didn't mean anything, then we also were meant to believe that torture at Abu Ghraid was the work of rogue soldiers not properly supervised.

Maybe no one in America understood the rules of engagement in the siege of Fallujah. They were openly discussed and endorsed by national security media consultants on cable tv for anyone to hear. Any person remaining in the city was presumed to be "a terrorist." The city was a free fire zone. People were killed indiscriminately, in hospitals, ambulances, and homes. The city was arbitrarily bombed and burned into rubble with remaining occupants slaughtered in the process.

So I suppose these recent atrocities come as something of a suprise.

[saigon68]

31. Then Cheney complains when one of ours is siting holding his

Detached Head

[Hekate]

16. A former Marine's column in the LA Times struck home

Al Martinez is a Korean War vet and one of my favorite columnists. He doesn't write a lot about being a Marine, but it is a thread that runs through his work over time. His conclusion, that "we are different than we were," comes after a discussion of the Bush regime’s policies. I recommend the entire essay at the link below –
Hekate

June 16 he wrote:
HAS THIS BECOME THE MARINE WAY?

One moves cautiously in war.
Death can be waiting behind a tree, over a hill or in a darkened room.
Duty conflicts with fear as a soldier steps silently through an enemy zone.....Any moment, a sudden burst of gunfire sprayed from the deepest silence of one's fears can end a life that, moments before, had tingled with energy and animation.

It isn't that difficult to die in a war.

And yet there are rules to the games of horror that humanity has created. ..... You kill those who threaten to kill you, but not those who cower in corners.
You don't kill the helpless.
>snip<
As an ex-Marine, I was stunned at the breakdown of combat discipline that allowed the massacre to occur. As a human being, I was appalled and saddened. As an observer, I wasn't surprised.
>snip<
Defenders of the dozen Marines tell us that we don't know what it was like at the moment of confrontation because we've never been there.
But I have been there.
I have seen friends die in war under the cruelest of circumstances. I have been enraged.... I have wanted to scream, to fire my rifle
into the air, to scorch every village that lay in our path, to bring wild vengeance down on their heads.

I did none of that, and I never witnessed any American soldier who did. We were trained, as one man put it, to use our brains before we used our guns. We didn't shoot each other in fits of rage or panic, and we sure as hell didn't shoot civilians.
>snip<
>snip<
I will listen to the excuses, but I will still know deep in my heart what lies at the evil core of the deed.
We're different than we were.

http://www.latimes.com/news/columnists/la-et-martinez16jun16,1,7523163.column?coll=la-news-columns

[outofbounds]

26. You send 130000

18 yr old kids to a foreign land to kill the enemy. Our uniform is khaki sand colored, the enemy uniform is street clothes. The enemy has no regard for their own life, let alone innocent civilians, the people they dress like. The enemy hides among the civilians and behind them. The frustration of the American targets has to be surreal. You hear shot fired see people running the targets give chase and kill who? The enemy is not dressed as an army, they look like civilians. Leaving decisions like this to 18yr old kids is inexcusable. And why, Pres Bush said it himself " Saddam is an evil man, he tried to kill my dad." That is the reason we are allowing our children to be killed. That and money of coarse. I swear when I heard Baby Bush say that I knew we were going to be there a while, if not forever. Iraq had how many hijackers on those planes none. Funny how they can find Saddam in a six foot hole but Osama is still hiding out in Bushes basement.

You know it’s the same way with the borders and the illegal immigration. Washington knows what Americans want. They are just blatantly refusing to represent the people. They are blatantly refusing to bring our kids home. And when they do bring our targets home, what will they have become.
I apologize for the rant, but this pisses me off.
:banghead:

[soothsayer]

27. are any of the accused hapless nat guard types? they've got to

feel they're in wayyyy over their heads.

[Jacobin]

30. If they are 'stunned' they are not experts

Our soldiers are in an impossible situation with impossible 'leadership' that does not deal in reality. The results, if awful, are utterly predictable.

[bling bling]

33. Our soldiers.

Sent over to "protect us" from terrorists.

However,there weren't any terrorists. There weren't any weapons of mass destruction.

But, their right-wing fan club at home urged them on. They slapped yellow stickers on their cars and thanked the soldiers during well-staged photo-ops for "defending our freedom".

That's gotta cause a little bit of cognitive dissonance. They've got to know by now they aren't defending anything for the U.S. They're the attackers, the offenders, and they created a war with people who were defending their own territory. They were killing innocent people, destroying people's lives. For what?? And then real terrorists saw this as a fantastic opportunity, and slipped through the borders. And our soldiers started seeing their friends killed and maimed.

And yet, if they come home and call out the administration, will they be treated like the others before them who have done the same? Suddenly transformed from hero to traitor, ridiculed by a bunch of chicken-shit neocons who've never even seen combat. You know, the same people who "support the troops."

They must understand by now how very little their lives are truly valued by the fuckwads who have put them up to this. Maybe it is a bit of a blessing for dems right now that the white house, senate, congress, and supreme court are all controlled by the right. If we had power over anything, the Republicans would be blaming any and all tribulations on the liberals. I guess they still have the "liberal" media to blame things on...but how much longer can even the dopiest of dipshits keep on falling for that one?

If only the soldiers in the military could speak out against the tragedy they've been forced to play a role in. Maybe they wouldn't be losing their sanity if they only had the luxury of freedom of speech and furthermore the luxury of a "liberal" media that would dare to print the situation as it really is.

[Amonester]

34. Wait a minute. they have guns & all, and the super-crooks...

who lied to everybody in order to get them there so the war-profiteers in their BFEE could more easily loot the Treasury at the expense of generations to come got themselves cowardish deferments or family-rich connections and only have between 13 and 36 percent approval ratings (that's a miracle...) and these poor guys can't talk themselves together in order to try to restore true Justice in their homeland? It's not like the cowards in the WH would even try to 'resist' their own arrest for high crimes and misdemeanors...

Gee... How more depressing must them using of their lives (and deaths) get before they'd even start to wake up?

(Revolution stuff...)

[bling bling]

35. The longer they're over there, the more likely they'll get bolder.

Right now the only thing keeping most them going is that magical date they'll get to come back home and forget about Iraq. I think a lot of them have been there much longer than they originally bargained for. But, most likly a new batch of troops will be deployed to replace them before they actually reach their breaking point.

A revolution is MUCH more likely should a draft be put in place. That's when the masses would be forced to be involved. Right now it's too easy to just ignore it. But if/when EVERYBODY's kid is at risk, the playing field will be leveled.