Hezbollah was using UN post as 'shield'

[ECH1969]

The words of a Canadian United Nations observer written just days before he was killed in an Israeli bombing of a UN post in Lebanon are evidence Hezbollah was using the post as a "shield" to fire rockets into Israel, says a former UN commander in Bosnia.

Those words, written in an e-mail dated just nine days ago, offer a possible explanation as to why the post -- which according to UN officials was clearly marked and known to Israeli forces -- was hit by Israel on Tuesday night, said retired Maj.-Gen. Lewis MacKenzie yesterday.

Just last week, Maj. Hess-von Kruedener wrote an e-mail about his experiences after nine months in the area, words Maj.-Gen. MacKenzie said are an obvious allusion to Hezbollah tactics. "What I can tell you is this," he wrote in an e-mail to CTV dated July 18. "We have on a daily basis had numerous occasions where our position has come under direct or indirect fire from both (Israeli) artillery and aerial bombing.

"The closest artillery has landed within 2 meters (sic) of our position and the closest 1000 lb aerial bomb has landed 100 meters (sic) from our patrol base. This has not been deliberate targeting, but rather due to tactical necessity."

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=37278180-a261-421d-84a9-7f94d5fc6d50

[bemildred]

1. Better blow it up then, the hell with the peacekeepers.

The peacekeepers no doubt were "complicit" for allowing the Hizbullah fellows to get near them.

[msongs]

2. oh sure, use a dead man to defend a point when he cannot verify any

of it. If the claim is true, there ought to be a live person to make it as well.


Msongs
www.msongs.comhowarddean2008.htm

[rodeodance]

17. rather late for this mysterious email to surface-

[Just Me]

36. The email IN NO SHAPE OR FORM provides a defense for the,...

,...bombing of that UN post!!!

How the hell does that email provide any form of defense for the bombing? It doesn't. As a matter of fact, there's a plethora of evidence of the UN CONSTANTLY contacting the IDP that they were there and bombs were being dropped too close with ABSOLUTELY NO FUCKING INDICATION THE "ENEMY" WAS NEAR THEM!!!!

THOU SHALT NOT KILL. THOU SHALT NOT KILL. THOU SHALT NOT KILL.

They are not only killing innocents, they are killing peace-makers. They might as well kill any presence of God and all those in their path of aggression.

[Amonester]

69. And they are (stupidly) killing international support for their cause.

Isn't it rich?

Israel Neocons rule:

No proper investigations.
No warrants. No proof of any wrong-doings.
No trial. No condemnation. No warnings.

Barabarian Death Penalty Enacted upon a silly (anti-democratic and criminal) 1% suspicion rule.

Methinks The Hague Awaits.

[struggle4progress]

56. Here's a link to the full text email from a week and a half ago:

A Canadian soldier's report from South Lebanon
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/print/CTVNews/20060718/mideast_lebanon_UN_060716/20060719/?hub=Specials&subhub=PrintStory

Unsurprisingly, a considerable amount of "creative" reading is required to obtain the wingnut interpretation of it ...

<edit: ooops! Mr Prax has posted another link to the text in #22 infra>

[struggle4progress]

55. UN observer's wife calls attack 'intentional'

Updated Thu. Jul. 27 2006 11:30 PM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

The wife of Maj. Paeta Hess-von Kruedener, missing and presumed dead after an Israeli attack on his UN observer post, has charged the bombing was "intentional."

"The building was clearly marked, their vehicles were clearly marked, they were clearly marked as UN observers," Cynthia Hess-von Kruedener told reporters Thursday ...

She also said that Israel had attacked the area several times before, "for weeks upon weeks," according to her husband ...

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060726/harper_soldier_death_060727/20060727?hub=CTVNewsAt11

<edit: ooops! LynnTheDem&c has posted a link to this in #48 infra>

[barb162]

58. Then she's contradicting her husband's words

"This has not been deliberate targeting, but rather due to tactical necessity."

[struggle4progress]

64. That's not at all clear: he may have been correct that tactical ..

.. necessity was involved in the fire at the time he wrote the email, and she may be correct that the UN post was deliberately targeted a week later ...

[Lerkfish]

3. I'm skeptical. Regardless, even if true, it does not excuse

targeting the UN site, not after 10 calls and promises that the shelling would stop.

[On the Road]

4. Oh. My. God.

That is all.

[xultar]

5. ...

[QuettaKid]

7. This is nothing more than spin.

If they were really using it as cover, they would have told the IDF this and they would then have gotten well out of the way.

[Igel]

62. Probably not.

The same day 4 other posts were described in UNIFIL press releases as having had Hezbollah fire originate adjacent to them. The UNIFIL folk stayed put.

In one instance, a Hezbollah mortar landed in a UNIFIL compound. In another, a UNIFIL convoy was fired at by Hezbollah. In a third, a Hezbollah rocket exploded in a UNIFIL base, critically wounding a UNIFIL man. No mention of UNIFIL withdrawing its people. In fact, no mention of this in the press. You pretty much have to read UNIFIL press releases to find out this kind of detail; but if the IDF targets a position near a UNIFIL base, we know it.

[truth2power]

45. Where'd you get that flag thingie? It's great! n/t

[Raster]

50. Love the flag and love the sentiment. BULLSHIT!!!

[acmavm]

6. Well I must admit it took longer than I thought it would for the

old "Hebzollah was here" excuse to be whipped out.

[Scurrilous]

8. CanWest:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CanWest_Global

"CanWest is often cited as an example of how the ownership of Canadian media has become concentrated in the hands of a few individuals and large corporations. CanWest founder Izzy Asper was known as a strong supporter of both Canada's Liberal Party and Israel's right-wing Likud party, and of many laissez-faire policies in both countries."


Editorial controversies:

"The government of Israel and conflict in the Middle East. Veteran Montreal Gazette reporter Bill Marsden has said that the Aspers "do not want any criticism of Israel. We do not run in our newspaper op-ed pieces that express criticism of Israel and what it is doing." In 2004, the Reuters news agency protested after CanWest altered newswire stories about the Iraq war and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, such that Reuters felt it had inserted CanWest's own bias under Reuters bylines. The changes were apparently made in accordance with a CanWest policy to label certain groups as terrorists."



CanWest...the same folks that gave us the story about Iran requiring Jews to wear yellow armbands.

[iverglas]

40. and Lewis MacKenzie:

Not just a retired general, but a Progressive Conservative candidate in the 1997 election. (Not the same as the present Conservative government, but not completely unrelated.)

Neither CanWest's nor MacKenzie's credentials negate any truth there may be in the story.

But as has been said in this thread: whether or not the story is true, the shelling was still committed by Israel with full knowledge of what the likely result would be.

Just exactly the same as when the shelling kills kids and other living things.

[NorthernSun]

43. CanWest also published the following false story

The National Post is sending shockwaves across the country this morning with a report that Iran's Parliament has passed a law requiring mandatory Holocaust style badges to identify Jews and Christians.

But independent reporter Meir Javedanfar, an Israeli Middle East expert who was born and raised in Tehran, says the report is false.

"It's absolutely factually incorrect," he told The New 940 Montreal.
"Nowhere in the law is there any talk of Jews and Christians having to wear different colours. I've checked it with sources both inside Iran and outside."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2006/05/19/montreal-news-station-say_n_21299.html

[Spazito]

9. Hezbollah was NOT firing from within the immediate vicinity when

Israel bombed the UN post:

She said 21 strikes occurred within 300 metres of the base and 12 artillery rounds fell within 100 metres of it, with four hitting the base directly.

The strikes occurred despite the fact "Hezbollah firing was not taking place within the immediate vicinity of the patrol base," she said.

Lute said that following the hit, Israeli troops continued to fire during the rescue operation and that incidents of firing close to UNIFIL positions were still happening Wednesday morning.

But Lute noted that UNIFIL has also come under direct attacks by small arms fire from Hezbollah.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/07/25/un-lebanon.html

and to add to this, the perspective from another Canadian peacekeeper who spent time in the same area with regard to whether the bombing could have been intentional:


Harry Bloom, eastern vice-president of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry Association, spent a year in the early 1970s patrolling the exact terrain where Hess-von Kruedener served.

snip

Bloom, now retired at 66, said he wasn't surprised by news that an Israeli bomb had hit the post - and he doesn't believe it was an accident.

"I agree with (UN Secretary General) Kofi Annan's comment that it seemed to be an intentional hit. It would have to be. The outposts are so well-identified with blue and white paint and flags. A pilot cannot mistake that outpost for anything else."

Bloom described repeated "altercations" with Israeli forces when he was stationed there.

more

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=7eb2c665-888b-4025-8975-f405d1237e0e&k=7216&p=2

[Tom Joad]

10. We also have allow for the fact that Israel uses blind folks to do

the targeting. It's part of their effort to integrate sight-disabled people into the vital work of the nation.

[barb162]

59. "Hezbollah was using UN post as 'shield'"

Maybe Israel should have the perfect pinpoint accuracy of the hez rockets being shot into Israel?

[iverglas]

65. quoting a headline

Now there's an authority for you.

Especially a headline from CanWest Global. Read anything else in the thread, did you?

[barb162]

67. Did you read anything else in the thread?

[BooScout]

11. Well the bombings certainly wasn't Israel's fault....

was it? :sarcasm:

[Igel]

63. It's a question.

I would hope that the investigators don't prejudge the issue.

[Minstrel Boy]

12. retired Maj-Gen Lewis MacKenzie is a right-wing shill

who has run and lost for the Conservative Party more than once.

[azurnoir]

13. This post from

ealier today said something a bit different- you have to read the link it's toward he end of the article
what it says is that Israeli troops would fire from behind the post to draw Hezbollah fire towards the post.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1743987

[rodeodance]

18. planting the seeds of doubt--

[daleo]

14. The quote doesn't say what the headline claims

"Tactical necessity" could mean all kinds of things. Lewis MacKenzie has become a spokesman for the right wing in Canada since his military days. That includes running for Parliament as a Conservative, IIRC.

[stepnw1f]

15. lol... how convenient

he's dead. What kind of excuse is it even if this were true. I say BS.

[babylonsister]

16. And if you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn... nt

[leesa]

19. Right. The old 'hiding behind their skirts' excuse...works every time.

Why did Israel repeatedly say they would stop the bombing then when asked to stop that day?

[Recursion]

20. Not saying I buy it...

...but some people here are talking like it's inconceivable that Hezbollah would deliberately set up beside/behind a UN post. I think it's not only very conceivable but pretty plausible. Hezbollah has also killed civilians to blame their deaths on IDF (that's from a Lebanese Christian I know who survived one such shooting). I'm sure IDF has done similar evil stuff too; I'm not going on a pro-IDF position here, I'm just saying I've seen and heard from eyewitnesses of non-state militants using UN posts as human shields, and it wouldn't be at all surprising if Hezbollah was doing the same thing.

[mom cat]

26. Even if Hesbolla did set themselves up neer the UN post, does that justify

bombing it for 8 hours after recieving 6 calls from that post begging the IDF not to bomb them?

[Recursion]

29. By the international law, yes

Maybe the law is bad, but the law says somebody who sets up operations near civilians / UN / Red Cross / whatever is the one who bears responsibility for what happened.

Note: I'm not saying Hezbollah was doing this

I'm saying that if they were, by the laws of war they are the ones who are responsible for what happens. Just like how by the laws of war Israel is responsible for forward settlements getting hit.

[iverglas]

44. and again: do you have a source you could cite?

How's about this one?

http://deoxy.org/wc/wc-proto.htm
(It relates to civilians and protected persons, but I figure something similar applies to UN facilities and personnel.)

Not the easiest to interpret, but give it a go; I'll provide some emphasis.

Article 57: Precautions in Attack

1. In the conduct of military operations, constant care shall be taken to spare the civilian population, civilians and civilian objects.

2. With respect to attacks, the following precautions shall be taken:

a. those who plan or decide upon an attack shall:

i. do everything feasible to verify that the objectives to be attacked are neither civilians nor civilian objects and are not subject to special protection but are military objectives within the meaning of paragraph 2 of Article 52 and that it is not prohibited by the provisions of this Protocol to attack them;

ii. take all feasible precautions in the choice of means and methods of attack with a view to avoiding, and in any event to minimizing, incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians and damage to civilian objects;

iii. refrain from deciding to launch any attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated;

b. an attack shall be canceled or suspended if it becomes apparent that the objective is not a military one or is subject to special protection or that the attack may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated;

c. effective advance warning shall be given of attacks which may affect the civilian population, unless circumstances do not pemmit.

3. When a choice is possible between several military objectives for obtaining a similar military advantage, the objective to be selected shall be that the attack on which may be expected to cause the least danger to civilian lives and to civilian objects.

... 5. No provision of this article may be construed as authorizing any attacks against the civilian population, civilians or civilian objects.

I know that doesn't answer our question here, but I thought it might be interesting.

I'll be interested in your explanation of what this "responsibility" for the consequences of the other party's actions is, and where it is set out.

[iverglas]

52. ... guess not.

[Tom Joad]

21. This is as worthless as the yellowcake forgery, and from the same fools.

[iverglas]

53. well, no

It's an email from a Canadian military officer, the text of which can be read here.

There's some question as to what it means, and what MacKenzie's interpretation of it is, and whether the representation of either by the media outlet is accurate. But you can read the email itself, and have no reason to doubt its authenticity.

[MrPrax]

22. The word 'shield' is not mentioned

at all...

Here is the letter that was written to the Canadian media. The National Post is trying to make it seem as if the letter said this; a lie.

Note the strange editing that Canada.com does to make it fit their "former UN commander in Bosnia" opinion, who is using the word, 'shield'.

Note that the letter was from July 18th and that might have been the case up to that point, but the attack was on the 25th...the implication is that nothing different happened in a whole week of escalating Israeli bombing attacks. Specious.

Note that this story is basically 'colour' for the current Canadian Prime Minister's unfortunate Bush-like remarks yesterday:

PM wants to know why UN post manned

HOPEWELL CAPE, N.B. — Prime Minister Stephen Harper says Israel’s deadly attack on a UN observation post in Lebanon, which claimed the life of a Canadian soldier, was a “terrible tragedy” and he doubts whether the bombing was deliberate.
...
But Harper said the facts suggest otherwise.

“I certainly doubt that to be the case, given that the government of Israel has been co-operating with us in our evacuation efforts, in our efforts to move Canadian citizens out of Lebanon and also trying to keep our own troops that are on the ground, involved in the evacuation, out of harm’s way,” he said.

“We want to find out why this United Nations post was attacked and also why it remained manned during what is now, more or less, a war during obvious danger to these individuals.”

TorStar

It's damage control by a rightwing proudly Pro-Israel Neo-Con paper originally set up by Conrad Black for the distinct purpose of promoting 'Tory' values during the era of a Liberal government.

Harper is a fucking moron just like Bush.

Additional Reports: (so as not to belabour the obvious)

" In a briefing note to the UN, Jane Lute, assistant secretary general for peacekeeping operations, said the IDF had been repeatedly firing too close to the patrol base on Tuesday.

She said 21 strikes occurred within 300 metres of the base and 12 artillery rounds fell within 100 metres of it, with four hitting the base directly.

The strikes occurred despite the fact "Hezbollah firing was not taking place within the immediate vicinity of the patrol base," she said.

Lute said that following the hit, Israeli troops continued to fire during the rescue operation and that incidents of firing close to UNIFIL positions were still happening Wednesday morning.

But Lute noted that UNIFIL has also come under direct attacks by small arms fire from Hezbollah.
CBC

This is what occurred after the massacre on the Gaza beach...Israel was caught redhanded in a demonstrable war crime, they responded with a pathetic propaganda compaign suggesting it was Hamas 'sand booby traps'

[daleo]

33. It was interesting to read the full letter

As you say, a bit is taken out of context and is stretched to mean something different than what he said. The apologists for this killing are twisting the victims words to imply that his murder was an accident.

I am beginning to wonder if Olmert has full control over his military.

[iverglas]

49. not copyright to CTV - here it is

(One additional note: I'm not sure whether it's been mentioned, but Lewis MacKenzie is in the paid service of CTV:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1047836673529_99//?hub=Specials)

_________________________________________

We have had a brief "tactical pause" in the action here, so I am taking this opportunity to provide you some information on the situation here in south Lebanon. At the outset, I will provide you with a brief background on who I am, What the Org and Mission is here and then answer some of the bank of questions you provided.

Background

My name is Major Paeta Hess-von Kruedener, and I am an Infantry Officer with the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, of the Canadian Forces. I was sent to this Mission (United Nations Truce and Supervision Organization -UNTSO) last October 05, and am currently serving as an unarmed Military Observer. I have now been stationed here in south Lebanon for Approximately nine months.

I am currently writing to you from the UN Patrol Base Khiam, which is situated approximately 10 km from the nexus of the Israeli, Lebanese and Syrian Borders. I am serving with Observer Group Lebanon, or OGL, and I am on Team Sierra. The Patrol Base is named after the village it is situated in, El Khiam, which sits on one of four ridges which dominates both the Hasbani River valley, which then changes to the Houla Valley when it crosses the Lebanon-Israel border 10 km to our south.

The patrol base was initially an observation post and was built in 1972, but was later destroyed in 1976 during the fighting between the PLO and the South Lebanese Army (SLA). In 1978 it was rebuilt again and manned by elements of the Norwegian Battalion serving with UNIFIL. In 1980, Observer Group Lebanon (OGL) assumed responsibility for it. Historically, the area of the El Khiam and Hasbani valleys to the north and the Houla valley to the south have been the main axis for invasion in to Lebanon and Palestinian Territories.

Mission

The mission of Team Sierra and OGL within the greater context of UNTSO is to maintain the integrity of theWithdrawal Line (Blue Line), and report on any and all violations or activities that threaten the cease-fire and international peace and security here along the Lebanese/Israeli border, and Israeli Occupied Lebanon, and to support the UNSC resolution 1559, within our mission mandate.

Information Requested

(1) Currently, there are several nationalities that are here on the patrol base with me. I am serving with an Australian, Chinese, Finnish, Austrian, and Irish Officers. They come from various different backgrounds, levels of experience and services (Army, Navy and Air Force) from within their militaries.

(2) I have been here for nine months of a one-year tour of duty. Since I have arrived here in Lebanon, this current incident is the fourth I have seen and by far the most spectacular and intensive.

The first was 21 Nov 05, when the Hezbollah tried to capture IDF soldiers from an IDF observation position overlooking the Wazzani river near the town of Ghajjar on the Blue Line. This action was unsuccessful and resulted in the deaths of the Hezbollah raiding force.

On 01 Feb 06, a young shepherd boy was Killed by an IDF patrol near an abandon goat farm called Bastarra. Hassan Nasrallah vowed that there would be consequences to this action. Team Sierra was tasked on 2 Feb 06, to assist in the investigation of the incident, and we sent one team to do so while the other team conducted its normal mobile patrolling activities.

On 03 Feb 06, a limited engagement took place initiated by the Hezbollah on several of the IDF defensive positions located in occupied Lebanon.

Then on 28 May, the Islamic Jihad (PLO) fired rockets from South Lebanon, into Israel, which elicited an immediate aerial bombardment of positions near our patrol base and in the Bekka valley.

(3) Our Team's normal operational activities are to plan, and execute daily vehicle and foot patrols of the Blue Line area within our area of responsibility. Unfortunately, with the current artillery and aerial bombing campaign being carried out by the IDF/IAF, it is not safe or prudent for us to conduct normal patrol activities. Currently, we are observing and reporting on all activities in our area of responsibility, with specific attention to activities along the Blue Line, which is clearly visible from our hilltop position.

(4) Team Sierra is currently observing both IDF/IAF and Hezbollah military clashes from our vantage point which has a commanding view of the IDF positions on the Golan mountains to our east and the IDF positions along the Blue Line to our south, as well as, most of the Hezbollah static positions in and around our patrol Base. It appears that the lion's share of fighting between the IDF and Hezbollah has taken place in our area. On the night of 16 July, at 2125 hrs, a large firefight broke out between the Hezbollah and the IDF near a village called Majidyye and lasted for one hour and 40 minutes.

(5) Based on the intensity and volatility of this current situation and the unpredictability of both sides (Hezbollah and Israel), and given the operational tempo of the Hezbollah and the IDF, we are not safe to venture out to conduct our normal patrol activities. We have now switched to Observation Post Duties and are observing any and all violations as they occur.

This is all the information of a non-tactical nature that I can provide you. I cannot give you any info on Hezbollah position, proximity or the amount of or types of sorties the IAF is currently flying. Suffice to say that the activity levels and operational tempo of both parties is currently very high and continuous, with short breaks or pauses. Please understand the nature of my job here is to be impartial and to report violations from both sides without bias. As an Unarmed Military Observer, this is my raison d'etre.

What I can tell you is this: we have on a daily basis had numerous occasions where our position has come under direct or indirect fire from both artillery and aerial bombing. The closest artillery has landed within 2 meters of our position and the closest 1000 lb aerial bomb has landed 100 meters from our patrol base. This has not been deliberate targeting, but has rather been due to tactical necessity.

I thank you for the opportunity to provide you with some information from the front lines here in south Lebanon.

Maj Hess-von Kruedener

[MrPrax]

57. Not the only thing about Lew...

I would guess the night before he became a temporary spokesman for Israel...he was here:

STAND WITH ISRAEL

Community solidarity rally to be held TONIGHT in Toronto

TORONTO, July 26 /CNW/ - More than 100 Jewish and non-Jewish
organizations from across Toronto will join together to sponsor Stand with
Israel, a community-wide solidarity rally to be held tonight at 7:30 p.m. at
the Toronto Centre for the Arts (5040 Yonge Street, north of Sheppard Avenue).
Primary organizational support for the rally is being provided by UJA
Federation of Greater Toronto, Canadian Jewish Congress Ontario Region and the
Canada-Israel Committee.
The rally will feature keynote speaker Retired Major-General Lewis
MacKenzie, the first commander of UN forces in Sarajevo at the beginning of
the Bosnian civil war, an internationally respected military analyst and one
of Canada's most decorated peacekeepers. Among the other speakers will be
Ya'acov Brosh, Israel's consul general in Toronto, and Robert Lantos, an
award-winning film producer, who will emcee the rally.
The rally will also feature a special live satellite broadcast at 8pm
Toronto time and 3am Israeli time from northern Israel, where its citizens
have been subjected to a constant barrage of rocket attacks by Hezbollah.

Mackenzie, Brosh and Lantos will be available to meet with members of the
media at the Toronto Centre for the Arts prior to the rally from 6:45 p.m. to
7:15 p.m.

NOTE: Proper media credentials will be required to gain entry.

Reminder:
Stand with Israel Rally
TONIGHT, 7:30 p.m.
Speakers available to media 6:45-7:15 p.m., Studio Theatre
Toronto Centre for the Arts, 5040 Yonge St., Toronto



For further information: Howard English, Vice President of Marketing and
Communications, UJA Federation of Greater Toronto, [phone] (office),
[phone] (cell), [e-mail], www.jewishtoronto.com ; Wendy
Lampert, National Director of Communications, Canadian Jewish Congress, (416)
631-5844 (office), 416-845-4674 (cell), [e-mail], www.cjc.ca


http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/July2006/26/c9277.html

Not that it means anything...

[iverglas]

60. noooooo

He's a perfectly impartial analyst, you silly billy.

Robert Lantos. Oh well. ... Oh good, he actually left Alliance Atlantis after the merger,
http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1ARTA0010020
so if I had any inclination to CSI, I wouldn't be lining his pockets, I guess. Fortunately, I don't, so I don't have to figure it out.

Y'know, the one time I complained to CTV about something, about a year ago, I actually got an answer (actually agreeing with me: it is inappropriate to say "Red China" in a newscast ... hardly a major victory in this century). I wonder what complaints about MacKenzie would produce.

Ha ha ha.

And I know it's a delicate subject around here (and there is criticism aplenty to go just about all the way around regarding the entire decades-long mess), but he's also an apologist for Milosevic, and chose to insert himself into electoral politics from another angle by criticizing the NDP for cutting a Milosevic apologist loose from endorsement as the party candidate in a BC riding.

http://dominionpaper.ca/media_analysis/2006/03/20/the_good_g.html

Retired Canadian General Lewis MacKenzie wrote in the National Post in 2004 that "Those of us who warned that the West was being sucked in on the side of an extremist, militant, Kosovo-Albanian independence movement were dismissed as appeasers." The former peacekeeper noted that the KLA was "universally designated a terrorist organization and known to be receiving support from Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda."

MacKenzie also commented on Canadian media coverage.

The recent dearth of news in the North American media regarding the increase in violence in Kosovo compared to the comprehensive coverage in the European press strongly suggests that we Canadians don't like to admit it when we are wrong. On the contrary, selected news clips on this side of the ocean continue to reinforce the popular spin that those dastardly Serbs are at it again.

Canadians don't like to admit it when we're wrong ... or Lewis MacKenzie doesn't like not getting his own way.

[iverglas]

66. anybody miss the actual EMAIL here? ^^^

I draw your attention to this excerpt:

The patrol base was initially an observation post and was built in 1972, but was later destroyed in 1976 during the fighting between the PLO and the South Lebanese Army (SLA). In 1978 it was rebuilt again and manned by elements of the Norwegian Battalion serving with UNIFIL. In 1980, Observer Group Lebanon (OGL) assumed responsibility for it. Historically, the area of the El Khiam and Hasbani valleys to the north and the Houla valley to the south have been the main axis for invasion in to Lebanon and Palestinian Territories.

Mission

The mission of Team Sierra and OGL within the greater context of UNTSO is to maintain the integrity of the Withdrawal Line (Blue Line), and report on any and all violations or activities that threaten the cease-fire and international peace and security here along the Lebanese/Israeli border, and Israeli Occupied Lebanon, and to support the UNSC resolution 1559, within our mission mandate.

Why was UNTSO there?

Because that was the place to be, to do its job. It appears rather obvious to me that the location was a strategic one for Lebanese defensive forces before the UN got there -- that the UN was there because the Lebanese defensive forces were there, NOT the other way around.

[HongKonger]

23. Fuck the propaganda.

And Fuck Canadian News. Which is owned by Israel Asper.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Israel+Asper&btnG=Google+Search

Have fun.

[iverglas]

61. The Canadian right wing; strange birds

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Asper

Also in 1970, Asper was elected leader of the Manitoba Liberal Party (defeating university professor John Nesbitt). Asper represented a right-libertarian strain within the party. In the Manitoba election of 1973, he promoted a laissez-faire economy, and advocated the elimination of the welfare state. He also advocated the public financing of election campaigns, to ensure that politics would not be dominated entirely by monied interests. ...

He was a prominent member of Canada's Jewish community, and was well-known for his strong faith and support for Israel. While a Liberal in domestic Canadian politics his views in regard to Zionism coincided with the right wing Likud - he was an admirer of Vladimir Jabotinsky.

Asper would occasionally pen editorials defending the nation in his various papers and was accused by a number of media observers of censoring opinions critical of Zionism or which he deemed sympathetic to the Palestinians. He was also a critic of public broadcasting media, especially the CBC both for competing with the private sector as well as alleging that CBC News had a pro-Palestinian bias. Critics have accused Asper of simply attempting to eliminate competition to his business and political opinions.

Of course CanWest isn't owned by him any more, since he's dead. ;)

The usual snot-nosed rich brat now holds the reins of the playthings Daddy provided him with. Can't think of his name off the top of my head.

Asper was also a close friend of many of Canada's prominent political and business elite, including Jean Chrétien and Paul Martin.

Nooo -- the li'l guy from Shawinigan, a member of the political and businss élite? The Liberal Party not really the home of all things good and pure in Canada? Who'd 'a thunk it.

[Roland99]

24. Seems a bit of a stretch to claim Hizballah was using it as a shield.

Even then, why not surround it and wait out the enemy? Why blow the hell out of it and kill innocents?

[Boxerfan]

25. I call BULLSHIT!!!

Prove they needed to kill them,not ask them to retreat thier post.

The Isreali's "defense" claims are horridly fals. Same as saying...

"Because 2 yellow jackets from a nest stung me. The nest was on the neighbors house. So to defend myslef I bombed his house with white phosporous bombs!. It's only fair! I was attacked 1st & them damn yellowjackets were hiding on his house!

[Recursion]

30. I don't buy it, but that is the law

I think that's being forgotten. In the eyes of international law, the person who operates right next to civilians (or peacekeepers, or whatever) is the one who bears the responsibility for any harm that comes to them. If you shoot from a hospital, or a mosque, or a church, you're the one whose responsible when the other guy blows it up, not the guy who blew it up.

Messed up? yeah, but the alternative is worse.

Anyways, I'm not saying Hezbollah did this. I'm saying that if they did, they were criminal. Just like if Israel set up an airfield right next to a hospital and they both got blown up; in that case Israel would be criminal.

[iverglas]

42. are we sure of that?

In the eyes of international law, the person who operates right next to civilians (or peacekeepers, or whatever) is the one who bears the responsibility for any harm that comes to them.

A party which does that is indeed committing a war crime.

That in no way means that a party that deliberately attacks non-military or international or humanitarian targets behind which another party is sheltering is not also committing a war crime, and "responsible" for the harm caused.

I mean, really; the devil made them do it?

[alcibiades_mystery]

27. Israeli After Action Report

[anotherdrew]

28. an email from a dead man is easily FAKED. I call it FAKE! n/t

[Kagemusha]

31. So let's say this is true.

Why the hell did the Israeli liaison officer falsely claim that the shelling would stop when his commanders had no intention whatsoever of the shelling stopping? Why didn't he say, "If you stay your lives are forfeit, flee while you can"?

Seriously. Why didn't he?

[twaddler01]

32. So what about the peacekeepers?

:shrug:

[Spazito]

34. UN observer's wife calls attack 'intentional'

The wife of Maj. Paeta Hess-von Kruedener, missing and presumed dead after an Israeli attack on his UN observer post, has charged the bombing was "intentional."


"The building was clearly marked, their vehicles were clearly marked, they were clearly marked as UN observers," Cynthia Hess-von Kruedener told reporters Thursday.


"So why were (the Israelis) firing on that base? ... In my opinion, those were precision-guided missiles, so the attack was intentional."


She also said that Israel had attacked the area several times before, "for weeks upon weeks," according to her husband.

more

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060726/harper_soldier_death_060727/20060727?hub=TopStories

[Just Me]

35. bullfuckingshit!!!! OUTRIGHT BULLSHIT RATIONALIZATION!!!

The UN was in constant contact with the Israeli government about the bombings.

*throws hands up in air*

I am sick of the lies and rationalizations and bullshit.

THEY DID IT ON FUCKING PURPOSE!!!!

[jrd200x]

37. I guess they should have let the Hez missles stay there

so they could shoot at them the next day and kill more innocent Israeli's.

Yea, that's what they should have done.

[daleo]

38. Are you saying Hezbollah was storing missiles on the U.N. base?

That's a new story. Do you have a link for this accusation?

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[daleo]

46. Sometimes I like to ask a direct question of people

When they make ambiguous statements. That gives them a chance to explain themselves.

[CHIMO]

39. The Lion, The Fox & The Eagle

Go fade away.

[smacky44]

47. How low will Israel stoop during its blood bath of Lebanon?

[LynnTheDem]

48. "UN observer's wife calls attack 'intentional'"

The wife of Maj. Paeta Hess-von Kruedener, missing and presumed dead after an Israeli attack on his UN observer post, has charged the bombing was "intentional."


"The building was clearly marked, their vehicles were clearly marked, they were clearly marked as UN observers," Cynthia Hess-von Kruedener told reporters Thursday.


"So why were (the Israelis) firing on that base? ... In my opinion, those were precision-guided missiles, so the attack was intentional."


She also said that Israel had attacked the area several times before, "for weeks upon weeks," according to her husband.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2418163

[tuvor]

51. 10 phone calls over 6 hours from peacekeepers to Israeli military...

"Cut it out, you're getting too fucking close."

[w4rma]

54. This is Harper's work, I bet. (nt)

[Megahurtz]

68. Somehow I just don't believe it. n/t