U.S. Forces Kill 54 Iraqis in Samarra

[Must_B_Free]

By SLOBODAN LEKIC, Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq - U.S. forces repulsed two coordinated attacks by insurgents in Samarra, killing 54 Iraqis in the bloodiest combat reported since the end of the war that ousted Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s regime, the military said Monday.

But local residents said troops fired randomly at townspeople, and that most of those who died were civilians caught up in the clash.

more

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031201/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq&cid=540&ncid=716

[Jester_11218]

1. We are really good at that.

Killing, that is.

[Vitruvius]

28. Err-- we didn't recover any enemy BODIES; that "54 dead" is just a claim;

see 'private_ryan's thread at http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=247461

By-the-way, the local Iraqi hospital says we killed 8 civilians and wounded 60; see 'Barrett808's post on that thread. Which ties in nicely with 'The Magistrate's remark that green troops overestimate the effect of their fire by at least a factor-of-10.

So yes, the Bu$h gang is good at killing -- killing civilians. But not quite as good as they think...

P.S: 'No bodies' suggests that the enemy kept control of the battlefield and chased our guys out-of-there. No verified enemy casualties, enemy in control of the battlefield -- doesn't sound like a victory to me.

Bu$h put our boys in a no-win situation, and they are losing. Which is no problem for Bu$h -- he's living it up in safety & comfort, dreaming of Iraqi oil.

[leftchick]

2. this is so sad.....

Looks as if things have really gotten out of hand......

[JailBush]

3. Nonsense - it's just practice for the coming civil war, which, in turn,

will be good practice for the coming wars with Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia!

[depakid]

4. Oh boy! more Body Counts

Vietnam Deja Vu....

[leftchick]

5. How to win hearts and minds.....

from aljazeera...
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/E4D19123-9DD3-11D1-B44E-006097071264.htm

<A hospital in the town said it received the bodies of eight civilians, including a woman and a child. Also, more than 60 people wounded by gunfire and shrapnel from US rounds are being treated at the hospital.

Workers at a nearby pharmaceutical plant said at least two colleagues were killed and many wounded as they walked out of the factory gates at the end of their shift. A US tank was shooting randomly in all directions, they said.

At 13:45 (10:45 GMT), just as staff at the State Enterprise for the Manufacture of Drugs and Medical Equipment finished their shift, a second tank arrived and opened up with machine guns, employees said.


US-led occupation forces and residents alike spoke of multiple attacks in the central Iraqi city that was once home to Izzat Ibrahim al-Duri, Saddam Hussein's deputy and the alleged paymaster of many attacks against occupation forces.

MacDonald said US troops also destroyed three buildings used in the attacks and notably fired tank shells against the attackers, who were allegedly wearing the black uniforms of Saddam's Fidayin fighters.




I don't see this poor fella's black uniform......

[izzie]

6. Try al Jazeera on this one.

I hate to say it but this looks like one that is going to take years to get the real truth.Everyones report is somewhat off the story.I have a sick feeling that George jumped up and down and said 'kill all those B-----' and we have reached the point of shooting anything that moves. Free Rep. has gone into seventh heaven with the killings. This is really getting to make me ill. We have become something I never thought we would do.Besides that we will be lost on the sands, so to speak, of the Middle East as armies have for 4000 years.

[xchrom]

7. as long as we keep killing

civilians -- whether we are attacked or not -- it ratchets up the perception of occupier in the minds of the iraqis.
when you lose a father, mother, brother , sister -- and they were bystanders it's hard to get over that.
why can't the u.s. understand -- we're not winning here?

[leftchick]

8. You have that right....

from the BBC....

<The BBC's Peter Greste, also in Samarra, says there is an unmistakeable sense of anger among local people - who say the US response to the attacks was indiscriminate and unnecessary. >


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3251690.stm

[izzie]

9. On TV they were talking about they knew they were in army from

Tattoo that some of the people had. Interesting as in the part of the world many people have them, tattoo. It is a custom, I think, as I have seen then in pictures in books also.Women, children etc.

[Zynx]

10. This number is likely overstated.

It was based on our soldiers' accounts of how many they thought they killed.

[UpInArms]

11. here's a link to substantiate your suspicion

Locals Dispute U.S. Claims of 54 Dead in Iraqi Battle

http://www.news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2244801

The US army claimed today that 54 Iraqis were killed in Samarra as they used tanks and cannons to fight their way out of simultaneous ambushes while delivering new Iraqi currency to banks.

But residents of the northern town said today that the casualty figure was much lower and that the dead were mostly civilians.

By the American account, yesterday’s fighting was the bloodiest combat reported since the fall of Saddam Hussein’s regime in a US led invasion.

...more...

and this "uniform" - isn't that like shooting and killing anyone wearing black? Guess all the goths need to start worrying.

[dArKeR]

13. Whore CNN is saying the Iraqi police are saying 8 dead.

[loudnclear]

12. Those killed were not all attackers.

Our media is so complicit in this war against humanity.

[mainer]

14. Just like in Vietnam, our ignorance condemns innocents

During the Vietnam war, U.S. soldiers believed that any villager who had an underground tunnel or hidey-hole in their hut was, by definition, "Vietcong" and could be killed as the enemy.

As anyone familiar with Vietnamese village life will tell you, almost ALL huts had underground holes for food storage.

No wonder the U.S. killed so many innocents there; we couldn't tell friend from foe because of our ignorance.

[Ernesto]

20. In my experience

Vietnamese villes all had holes and bunkers to afford the local folks some protection from incoming ordnance, where ever it came from...... As a matter of fact: most ordnance came from us.

[newyorican]

15. And we're off!

Don't worry. The corrections will come Friday evening on the news crawl.

Conflicting reports on Samarra death toll: Residents say at least eight civilians shot dead by US forces

American troops killed 54 Iraqis after a forceful gunfight in the northern Iraqi town of Samarra on late Sunday, American official statements said. But residents said Monday that the casualty figure was much lower and that the dead were mostly civilians. According to them, just eight or nine people died.

----

It should be noted that contrary to official US reports, occupation troops killed unarmed civilian bystanders when they opened fire on all directions, locals told news agencies.

Many residents said the Americans opened fire at random when they came under attack, and targeted civilian installations. A kindergarten was damaged, apparently by tank shells.

http://www.albawaba.com/news/index.php3?sid=264554&lang=e&dir=news

[muriel_volestrangler]

16. I don't normally do this

but here's a 'cover-up' theory:

US troops came under attack, and killed too many civilians in the battle. To make it look better, they import a few bodies they've killed elsewhere and are unclaimed (people killed outside their home area), dressed in black so they can say they were Fedayeen. These bodies are taken away, and the numbers of them inflated anyway.

This way the battle looks much larger, and the civilian dead a smaller proportion, and more like 'inevitable casualties'. The local hospitals deal with the civilians. Anyone who was in the actual attack is removed; the bodies can be used later if they aren't claimed by a local.

As an added bonus, the blood thirsty right wing nuts in the US feel good about the increased body count.

[jmcgowanjm]

19. 4 pows were engineers from pharma plant

A great battle victory turns into just
another war crime.

But we're not talking about:
Spain 7 dead
Japan 2 dead
SKorea 2 dead
and the bloodiest month yet for US.

All of this adds up to the essential ridiculousness
of the moment: On the homefront, the president
is shaping his political campaign around the
notion that we shouldn't show weakness and
we can't cut and run. Meanwhile, it's clear to
pretty much everyone in Iraq that we're doing both.
Josh Michaels

[TheLastMohican]

17. Just been watching.....

several news channels. Doctors showed children in the hospital who had been shot, (didnt know children were allowed to join fedayeen!) Witnesses laughed when told what the Americans were claiming and said in all, around 20+ civilians had been killed, there was no ambush by fedayeen or anyone else. Saw pictures of buildings, cars and even trees shot up by the panicking psycho grunts, looks like they got scared (as usual) and lost control (as usual) and shot up everything in sight (as usual). Instead of looking elated at defeating 50+ fedayeen, when being interviewed, LC McDonald, looked and sounded nervous and defensive. Those cowards will be better not show their faces in Samarra again because they have just made even more enemies and recruited at least half of Samarra for the resistance. Cheers numbskulls.

[J B]

18. I think I know the real story.

From the Scotsman article:

"Many residents said Saddam loyalists attacked the Americans, but that when US forces began firing at random, many civilians got their guns and joined the fight. Many said residents were bitter about recent US raids in the night."

So they grabbed their guns, went out to join the fight - against tanks - and got utterly slaughtered.

Since they're Iraqis with weapons, they were posthumously declared terrorists.

What a tragedy.

[wabeewoman]

21. This is getting lots of media play

which, following the bush fly-in to Iraq, makes me wonder....its being played as American forces fight back as they were ambushed which may be totally true. The thing that caught my eye was the line : "After putting down the attacks with tank and cannon fire, US troops discovered that many of the dead and wounded Iraqis were {b}wearing uniforms of Saddam's Fedayeen./b} That just doesn't make sense to me. If you are fighting a guerilla war, since when do you wear uniforms.

[fishnfla]

22. The first casuality of war is truth

the locals are all giving the same description of the events

Are they all telling the same lie? damned clever of them!

[jmcgowanjm]

23. IMO-PolCommissars picked out best day's attack to cover foreigndeaths

In short, we will never see war, thus becoming
immune to the all too real, chilling and sobering
effects of man killing man with the most violent
of weapons.

http://www.interventionmag.com/cms/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=557

And the way Walter Rdgers keeps
salivating over vaunted US tanks/Bradleys
in the Great Battle for Samarra-ghoulish
12Eastern CNN
Until the story just fades away...
never to be reexamined (in primetime).

And keep shopping!

[bvar22]

24. Is anyone else ASHAMED that this is being called COMBAT???

sounds like a slaughter or massacre to me. Most REAL soldiers would feel ashamed.

My father was a Marine who fought across the Pacific in WWII. Before he died several years ago, he told me that he was PROUD to be a Marine, and PROUD to have served his country....but that he was deeply ASHAMED and HAUNTED by several incidents where they had massacred units of the Japanese Army who had lost the ability and resources to fight effectively, but still refused to surrender.

[pdove]

26. When facing gerrillas we panic

When facing bystanders we combat and kill.

What a great army we are!

[leftchick]

25. fishy story, fuzzy numbers.....

update from Aljazeera....

<The town’s police chief Colonel Ismail Mahmud Muhammad said about 20 of the injured sustained their injuries while worshipping at a mosque during sunset prayers.

Two Iranian passports reportedly
belonging to victims of US attack

Resistance fighters who had attacked occupation forces had withdrawn when the Americans returned fire, said Muhammad.

Troops had done so indiscriminately with all weapons in their arsenal, he added.

“There was an attack and an exchange of fire between the Americans and the resistance lasting half an hour. The resistance withdrew, then bombardments started using all manner of weapons in all directions and without any discrimination,” said Muhammad.

He also said eight civilians were killed, including a child. >

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/56EE3BDE-1510-4F73-9D74-C820DF8FFD67.htm

[Barrett808]

27. Hospital: "Eight civilians killed, 60 wounded by US fire in Iraq town"

SAMARRA: At least eight Iraqi civilians were killed and more than 60 wounded by US fire in bloody clashes with insurgents in the Iraqi town of Samarra, local hospital director Abed Tawfiq told a foreign news agency on Monday.

US commanders previously said they killed 46 Iraqi insurgents in the clashes. Accident and emergency department anaesthetist Bassem Ibrahim said we received the bodies of eight civilians, including a woman and a child.

Tawfiq said more than 60 people wounded by gunfire and shrapnel from US rounds are being treated at the hospital. He said there were so many casualties from US fire during their intense clashes with insurgents who ambushed American convoys in the town Sunday afternoon and evening that they had had to be treated in the hospital's corridors.

http://www.hipakistan.com/en/detail.php?newsId=en46483&F_catID=&f_type=source