Castro appears improved on state TV

[cal04]

Fidel Castro, looking notably better than he did when last seen almost three weeks ago, happily greeted Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez during a brief visit aired on state television Friday.

"Brother!" the 80-year-old Castro said from his sickbed, his face lighting up as Chavez entered the room Friday where he was recuperating and gave him a warm embrace.

"Gentleman of the heroic resistance!" the Venezuelan president responded with a smile to his good friend and ally.

"What joy!" Castro said after sitting up on his bed. "A million thanks!"




http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060901/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/cuba_castro_4

[bemildred]

1. Hmmm.

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

[onehandle]

2. Please live until January 20th, 2009. nt

[Mika]

3. Video HAS to be FAKE..

.. just like the pics of him in a hospital room with a copy of Granma. Ask just about any of DU's Castrophobes..

Castro is dead. :crazy:


:rofl:

[Yupster]

4. Maybe he'll be well enough

to campaign for his next reelection race. He may have to sit during the debates though.

[RangerSmith]

17. lol

well, haven't you heard, he is so well loved the people don't even want elections!

[wakeme2008]

5. movie here

http://cbs4.com/video/?id=[e-mail]

Nice looking plane Chavez has. :)

[Say_What]

7. Excellent video...

thanks for posting :yourock:

[Judi Lynn]

11. Yes, thank you, for sure. Very, very interesting.

Seemed like a very heart-felt encounter on both sides.

Most appreciated.

[UTUSN]

6. state TV appears improved on Castro n/t

[Say_What]

8. They saved the best sentence for last....

LOL loved this comment:

...Chavez argues the United States _ not Cuba _ needs a transition to democracy.


Fidel Castro appeared in new video broadcast chatting in his sickbed with Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez and his brother Raul, Cuba's interim president.(AFP/TV Cuba)
AFP/TV Cuba - Sep 01 5:48 PM

[Yupster]

9. Look at his left hand

Any doctors here? What is that a sign of?

[Say_What]

12. Based on photos and videos I've seen over the years

I think it's arthritis, but that's only a guess. He does look like he's lost weight, but for 80 he's in very good shape. He's always really paid attention to his health and has longevity in his family--his mother lived to 95. There was an article about his health this past June. He was still working 16 hours a day!!

Most of his old Gusano enemies in Miami are six feet under. :evilgrin:

[Yupster]

14. IMO we need to stop this Gusano crap on DU

A dictator calls his enemies worms. That's fine. That's what dictators do. They dehumanize people who oppose them.

But here on a Progressive website there's not any excuse for that.

Even if you dislike or hate whole groups of people you shouldn't call them dehumanizing things like worms. Yet it happens here every day.

[Say_What]

22. CUBANS on the island call them GUSANOS...

they have committed countless acts of TERRORISM against the island and frankly I think GUSANOS is a rather kind word for their ilk. BTW, this is NOT *whole groups* of people. This is a small powerful group of zealots aka GUSANOS, nested in Miami, who have intimidated, bombed, and murdered those who dare to go against the anti-Cuba GUSANO hardline. (Google CANF +terrorism +cuba) Their actions against the more moderate Cuban-Americans who dared to propose normalizing relations with the island were well documented in an article a few years ago titled The Burden of a Violent History.

<clips>

Sanctuary for Terrorists?
U.S. tolerance of anti-Cuban terrorism, as discussed at a conference hosted by the Center for International Policy in Miami on October 8, 2005

By Wayne Smith, Shauna Harrison and Sheree Adams

Summary
Many Cuban exile terrorists got their start by working with the CIA on acts of violence against targets in Cuba. But as the CIA closed its base in Miami and de-emphasized such tactics, its former “operatives,” among them Orlando Bosch and Luis Posada Carriles, turned freelance.

Declassified CIA and FBI documents leave no doubt that Bosch and Posada were then involved in acts of terrorism, such as the bombing of a Cubana airliner in 1976 with the loss of 73 innocent lives. Bosch was also reported to have been behind the 1976 assassination in Washington of former Chilean diplomat Orlando Letelier and his American assistant, Ronnie Moffitt. And Posada acknowledged to The New York Times that he was responsible for the 1997 bombings of tourist hotels in Havana, resulting in the death of an Italian tourist and the wounding of several other people.

These were but the tip of the iceberg. There were many other exile terrorists, many other assassinations and other acts of violence against Cuban-Americans who disagreed with the exile hardliners, in addition to intense efforts to intimidate those advocating dialogue with Cuba and/or those who insisted on traveling to the island.

Most disturbingly, almost none of these terrorist acts, even those in the U.S., have been punished by U.S. authorities. On the contrary, there has been a clear pattern of tolerance. Orlando Bosch, for example, despite all the evidence against him, was pardoned by the George H.W. Bush administration—at the specific request of Congresswoman Ileana Ros-Lehtinen and now-Governor Jeb Bush. Thus, Bosch has lived freely and unrepentant in Miami since 1988. And now comes Posada Carriles. In prison in Panama on charges growing out of his intention to assassinate President Fidel Castro during a visit there, he, along with three other exile terrorists, was pardoned in August of 2004 by the outgoing president of Panama, Mireya Moscoso, at the request of Congresswoman Ileana Ros-Lehtinen and Congressmen Lincoln and Mario Diaz-Balart.

http://www.ciponline.org/cuba/ipr/SanctuaryForTerrorists.htm



<clips>

A bomber's tale: Taking aim at Castro
By Ann Louis Bardach and Larry Rohter, New York Times, July 1998

MIAMI -- A Cuban exile who has waged a campaign of bombings and assassination attempts aimed at toppling Fidel Castro says that his efforts were supported financially for more than a decade by the Cuban-American leaders of one of America's most influential lobbying groups.

The exile, Luis Posada Carriles, said he organized a wave of bombings in Cuba last year at hotels, restaurants and discotheques, killing an Italian tourist and alarming the Cuban Government. Posada was schooled in demolition and guerrilla warfare by the Central Intelligence Agency in the 1960's.

In a series of tape-recorded interviews at a walled Caribbean compound, Posada said the hotel bombings and other operations had been supported by leaders of the Cuban-American National Foundation. Its founder and head, Jorge Mas Canosa, who died last year, was embraced at the White House by Presidents Reagan, Bush and Clinton.

A powerful force in both Florida and national elections, and a prodigious campaign donor, Mas played a decisive role in persuading Clinton to change his mind and follow a course of sanctions and isolation against Castro's Cuba.

Although the tax-exempt foundation has declared that it seeks to bring down Cuba's Communist Government solely through peaceful means, Posada said leaders of the foundation discreetly financed his operations. Mas personally supervised the flow of money and logistical support, he said.

"Jorge controlled everything," Posada said. "Whenever I needed money, he said to give me $5,000, give me $10,000, give me $15,000, and they sent it to me."

http://www.nytimes.com/library/world/americas/071298cuba-plot.html


October 19, 1976 A bomb destroys a Cubana Airlines flight from Georgetown, Guyana to Havana shortly after takeoff from Barbados, killing all 73 aboard. Among the dead are the teenaged members of Cuba's national fencing team.


The Cuban-American National Foundation provided this undated photographs of Jorge Mas Canosa, its founder and president until his death last year, with President Bush.


The Cuban-American National Foundation provided this undated photographs of Jorge Mas Canosa, its founder and president until his death last year, with President Clinton.

[Judi Lynn]

25. You're so damned right! "Gusanos" is amazingly charitable.

It really takes all kinds, doesn't it?

Anyone who knows a trace of their activities since they first started leeching here can only scoff at any pretended claims of insult.

In the words of their "famous" (in his own mind) leader, Miami's little godfather, Jorge Mas Canosa....

7/31/94 The Miami Herald reprints an interview with Jorge Mas Canosa from the Spanish newspaper El Pais. Mas Canosa was asked by El Pais whether he believed Americans would take over Cuba if Fidel Castro fell. The Herald quoted Mas Canosa as saying, in part, "They haven't even been able to take over Miami! If we have kicked them out of here, how could they possibly take over our own country?" (MH, 7/28/94; WP, 7/28/94)
(snip/…)

http://cuban-exile.com/doc_126-150/doc0146b.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There are some people who wouldn't mind seeing them kicked outta here, other than the knowledge Cubans already had their fill of them by the time of the revolution in the 1950's.

[Bridget Burke]

71. Some would consider "yupster" a derogatory term. n/t

[NeedleCast]

94. His Hand

It's a sign of being old.

[Judi Lynn]

95. You've got THAT right, NeedleCast! I almost thought the poster was fooling

around, as any one who has lived to adulthood has already seen many hands which look like that, among his grandparents, other older relatives, neighbors, people in public.

It seemed very odd to try to make something of it, as it's a very, VERY familiar sight among the sighted!

Welcome to D.U.!

[Judi Lynn]

10. Thanks for posting the AFP photo. It's a great still shot of the great

news clip posted by wakeme2008. It will probably cause a lot of teeth being ground down to powder in South Florida!

He looks pretty darned good for an 80 year old man who's just had serious surgery a short time ago.

[Say_What]

13. More in the post above and then there's the son...

Man, this kid is a knockout!! :bounce:


Cuba's team doctor Antonio Castro (L), son of Cuban leader Fidel Castro, celebrates his team's win with Cuba's Yunieski Maya after their Olympic qualifier tournament of the Americas baseball game against Nicaragua in Havana August 29, 2006. REUTERS/Enrique De La Osa (CUBA



Antonio Castro (L), son of Cuba's President Fidel Castro and an orthopedic surgeon and doctor on Cuba's national baseball team, in a 2003 file photo. Castro's family has not been immune to the political rift his left-wing rule has caused among Cubans since his 1959 revolution. Castro's six sons live in Cuba and support their father's government from a second-row position, increasingly showing up at public events. But other members of the family live abroad, from where they often make a living by spewing vitriol. (Claudia Daut/Reuters)

[Yupster]

15. Is he next in line after Raul?

Hard to keep the succession rules straight within monarchies.

[Say_What]

23. LOL Get an education, Yupster. Your understanding about the island

leaves MUCH to be desired.

[Yupster]

31. ??? Get an education???

about the workings of the Cuban chain of succession?

Here's my understanding. You can educate me.

Fidel is the Chefe.

That makes him President For Life because it just does.

Should Fidel fall, then his brother Raul becomes Chefe. He earned this coveted spot 40 years ago when Fidel named him heir. That's a right of the Chefe I guess.

Should Raul fall no one knows what would happen because the current President For Life hasn't announced who the new Chefe would be in that case.

You can fill in the Enabling Legislation.

[Judi Lynn]

32. Last I heard, Fidel Castro was elected by the National Assembly

in the last election. That's the way it works.

It would stand to reason, if the Defense Minister were to become the President, he would have to be elected first.

[Yupster]

34. Is that the Enabling Legislation?

All dictators use it.

[Judi Lynn]

36. Sorry, it may be that you're making sense, but I don't detect it. n/t

[Yupster]

38. Oh well - I guess

we have a complete disconnect because I can't for the life of me see why people defend dictatorships and Presidents For Life here on DU.

[Say_What]

90. Anyone who believes a book written by an ex-CIA agent

is hardly informed on Cuba. So yeah, do some research and while you're at it educate us about your term *Chefe*.

:rofl:

[Judi Lynn]

20. Surely! Never have seen those before. That must be some group.

Interesting to learn he's in sports medicine!

Here's Fidelito, and his mother, Mirta with Fidel Castro:

[Say_What]

26. Seems like I read that there's more than one doctor...

One thing's for sure. When it comes to brains, this family has plenty. And the Bush twins do what, exactly?

...Their sons range in age from Angel, about 25 and studying medicine, to Alex, a
computer systems manager in his mid-30s. Antonio is studying to be an
orthopedic surgeon, and Alejandro and Alexis are computer programmers.

...All but Angel and Alejandro Castro Soto del Valle are said to be married and have
children of their own, making Castro a grandfather many times over. Alejandro,
known as a computer and softball nut who always dresses informally, is said to
be the only one still living at home with Fidel and Dalia.

http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/fidel/castro-family.htm



Cuba's Alexander Mayeta celebrates his home run with the Cuban team's doctor Antonio Castro (C), son of Cuban leader Fidel Castro, during an Olympic qualifying game against Colombia in Havana August 25, 2006. REUTERS/Enrique De La Osa (CUBA)

[Judi Lynn]

29. Interesting seeing that article in the Miami Herald!

They're all going to be lost when Fidel Castro does die, as they won't have anyone specific to blame for the last Cuban revolution, and they're going to have to face the fact Cuba STILL doesn't want them back!

[greccogirl]

16. What "heroic resistance" is he

gentlemen of?

[Psephos]

18. Is he in the room next to Arafat's? n/t

[Judi Lynn]

19. He's in Havana. n/t

[brentspeak]

21. Fidel felt much better after viewing old film of Che machine-gunning

their political prisoners.

Good ol' Che Guevara the mass murderer isn't around any more, but Fidel can still chuckle, light up a stogie, and fondly reminisce about the old days.

[Say_What]

24. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

That Gusano Guano is the kinda tripe that comes right off Calle Ocho. Are you really THAT uninformed?

BTW, Fidel hasn't had a stogie for more than two decades and please, indulge us with some FACTS on Che's being a mass murder. :boring:

[Judi Lynn]

27. I'll never forget the dipstick who insisted she remembered so clearly

hearing all about the time after the revolution in Cuba when Fidel Castro started sending all the political prisoners to the huge soccer stadium, where they were tortured, and many of them killed, and others simply disappeared.

She thought she was going to get away with it until someone reminded here that she was telling the story of what happened in CHILE, for christ's sake, in the 1970's, and that there hadn't BEEN any huge soccer stadiums in Cuba at the time of the revolution.

She dropped out of sight in a hurry. Not nearly soon enough to avoid giving a lot of people a laugh.

Oh, yeah, the terrifying machine gunning of prisoners. Who could forget that?

[brentspeak]

28. I sense denial

"In January 1957, as his diary from the Sierra Maestra indicates, Guevara shot Eutimio Guerra because he suspected him of passing on information: “I ended the problem with a .32 caliber pistol, in the right side of his brain.... His belongings were now mine.” Later he shot Aristidio, a peasant who expressed the desire to leave whenever the rebels moved on. While he wondered whether this particular victim “was really guilty enough to deserve death,” he had no qualms about ordering the death of Echevarría, a brother of one of his comrades, because of unspecified crimes: “He had to pay the price.” At other times he would simulate executions without carrying them out, as a method of psychological torture.

Luis Guardia and Pedro Corzo, two researchers in Florida who are working on a documentary about Guevara, have obtained the testimony of Jaime Costa Vázquez, a former commander in the revolutionary army known as “El Catalán,” who maintains that many of the executions attributed to Ramiro Valdés, a future interior minister of Cuba, were Guevara’s direct responsibility, because Valdés was under his orders in the mountains. “If in doubt, kill him” were Che’s instructions. On the eve of victory, according to Costa, Che ordered the execution of a couple dozen people in Santa Clara, in central Cuba, where his column had gone as part of a final assault on the island. Some of them were shot in a hotel, as Marcelo Fernándes-Zayas, another former revolutionary who later became a journalist, has written—adding that among those executed, known as casquitos, were peasants who had joined the army simply to escape unemployment."

[Judi Lynn]

30. It was their WAR, wasn't it?

Batista was BOMBING their asses. He had tortured to death many of the rebels even before the revolution began, and thrown them out in the streets, the fields, etc. A gun to the head to one of the suspected "leftists" would have been a relief.

The revolution concerned ridding the country of the government which would torture opponents to death, and throw their bodies out in public as a caution to others to not cross it.

Such delicacy arising after idiots comb through books trying to find instances of rebels shooting anyone is completely unexpected from people who wildly support US agression against very small countries.

[brentspeak]

39. Who is the "idiot" who "supports US agression against small countries"?

Can you be more specific?

[Judi Lynn]

40. It would be someone who surmises Cubans should not have

overthrown a bloodthirsty criminal like Bastista at ALL costs, someone who won't take the time to acknowledge there was enough wrong in Cuba due to the US-supported monster to cause the revolution or it would not have happened.

[Yupster]

42. Batista came in by coup

so I have no problem with revolution to throw him out.

Especially a revolution which promised free elections within 15 months.

I'm not going to support a dictator who's been in power for 47 years though.

[Judi Lynn]

43. So you're claiming they don't have elections, now?

There are DU'ers who have been in Cuba at the time of elections. Maybe you could explain it for their sakes, how you acquired this tremendous awareness of Cuban politics, so well kept a secret that even the Cubans are unaware of it.

If you only had taken as much time trying to find out more about Cuba, rather than absorbing whatever the propagandists told you unquestioningly. Did it ever occur to you to start trying to find out why you can't go to Cuba? To find out why the U.S. is trying to choke the life out of the Cuban economy? To find out why it is the U.S. has done this to OTHER countries, and won, temporarily?

You have a HUGE amount of reading ahead of you. If you already know about these things, and are trying to mislead people, it's quite another matter altogether.

[Yupster]

44. You're claiming Cuba currently has

free and fair elections and you're saying I'm listening to propaganda?

Here's a general critique of the Cuban electoral system. Read the links and reports for weeks if you want to. There's plenty to criticize there as there is with any dictatorship's sham elections.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Cuba#Criticism_of_Cuba.27s_electoral_system

The communist party is actually in the Cuban Constitution. How's that for a fair system?

Here's a summary in a paragraph

"Critics also point out that whatever the merits of the system for electing the National Assembly, that body is itself a facade for the reality of PCC rule in Cuba. The Assembly meets only twice a year for a few days. The 31-member Council of State, in theory elected by the Assembly but in practice appointed by the PCC, wields effective state power, and the PCC Politburo, as in all communists states, is the ultimate political authority. Although the Assembly has eight standing committees, they do not exercise any effective authority over legislation. During its biannual plenums, the Assembly plays a passive role as audience for various government speakers. Once the Council of State's legislative proposals have been presented, they are summarily ratified by unanimous or near unanimous vote of the Assembly.<13>"

[Common Sense Party]

47. The Cuban people "elect" Fidel the same way Saddam got "elected."

At the point of a gun.

[Mika]

120. Please produce one reliable link that confirms your absurd conjecture.

If its true then there should be dozens of links to stories that confirm that Cubans vote "at the point of a gun".

[Mika]

65. Wikipedia is useless on Cuba

Wiki on Cuba is primarily opinion, not fact.


From the Miami Herald archives..

War of words: website can't define Cuba
What's a neutral point of view? The Cuba entry in the online reference site Wikipedia shows just how difficult it is for the volunteer-run website to tackle politically charged subjects.
http://www.miami.com:80/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/14485633.htm

One editor complained that Havana sympathizers were transforming a scholarly enterprise into ''their own private Fidel Castro fan page.'' A user was tossed out after threatening to sue another for libel.

The fuss is over the Cuba entry in Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia created, edited and administered entirely by volunteers with the altruistic purpose of becoming a Web-based knowledge repository for humanity.

But the Cuba entry, like those on President Bush and abortion, has been snared in intense political divisions over everything from the impact of U.S. sanctions on the communist-ruled island to whether it should have a separate section on its human rights record. Russia and North Korea do not.

There have been so many dueling edits -- 30 entries on April 27 alone -- that the article has been placed off-limits to first-time or unregistered users. The article has notices alerting readers that the neutrality of four sections is under dispute.

A central tenet of Wikipedia is that articles must be written in a neutral point of view. But, as the debate on the talk page attached to the Cuba article demonstrates, neutrality is often in the eye of the beholder.

The debate over Cuba turned intense after Adam Carr, who identifies himself as having a Ph.D. in history from the University of Melbourne in Australia and a gay rights activist, introduced this sentence high in the article: ``Cuba is a socialist republic, in which the Communist Party of Cuba is the sole legal political party, and is the only state in the western hemisphere that is not a democracy.''

SPIRITED DEBATE

This prompted responses that went from scholarly citations of political scientists with definitions of democracy, to accusations of not-so-hidden political agendas.

Bruce Hallman wrote that calling Cuba undemocratic is a ''logical fallacy'' because it applies ''capitalistic values'' in the context of a socialist society. 'Might it be possible to write the article without using the word `democracy' at all?'' he suggested.

''Sorry, comrade, no dice,'' answered Carr, one of the few writers who posts a description of himself. ``These comments show quite clearly that you are a communist, or at least someone who actively supports the Castro dictatorship, not just . . . someone who is naïve about the realities of Cuba.''

With neither side giving in, on April 15 a ''mediation cabal'' -- an informal mediator -- joined the discussion. The cabal suggested citing reputable sources to back the Cuba-is-not-a-democracy sentence.

''If we need a citation that Cuba is not a democracy, then maybe we need citation that Cuba is in Latin America,'' retorts CJK, another user.

''Cuba is a dictatorship, plain and simple,'' says Carr, calling Castro's foreign supporters ``gullible idiots.''

Failing to produce an agreement, the cabal departed after complaining that several editors were being rude.

Others argued that if the article discusses human rights in Cuba, then it should also point out U.S. human rights abuses. ''We will not be distracted by the well-known communist diversionary tactic of playing bogus moral equivalence games,'' Carr responded.

Scott Grayban, a talk page writer who claims to be a U.S. Air Force veteran, calls Carr ''nothing more than a pro-Bush hate-Cuba type person'' and in a separate e-mail threatened to sue Carr for libel. An administrator promptly banned Grayban for life from editing Wikipedia.

Other users also have been banned, including ''Comandante,'' who has changed the Cuba article more than 700 times. Another participant wrote that Comandante's Internet address suggests he lives in Cuba.

POPULAR SITE

A few years ago, online discussions of this sort would have gone unnoticed. But Wikipedia is now the 17th-most-visited site in the world, according to Alexa Internet, a Web-ranking outfit owned by Amazon.com.

Created by Web entrepreneur Jimmy Wales, who today heads the foundation that oversees the site, Wikipedia is an example of ''social computing'' -- the ability of users to create their own content without relying on the filters of newspaper or hard-copy encyclopedia editors.

Wikipedia has had some stumbles. A hoax entry wrongly implicated journalist John Seigenthaler in the JFK assassination. Several U.S. congressional staffers have been caught altering their bosses' entries.

There are now 900 volunteer administrators patrolling the site to keep troublemakers at bay, as well as formal arbitration mechanisms.

Most articles are uncontroversial, says Kat Walsh, an administrator for Wikipedia. But ''where people are out fighting in the real world, they're going to have differences of opinion on Wikipedia as well,'' she said.

---

Cuba entry in Wikipedia stirs controversy
http://www.miami.com:80/mld/miamiherald/14481721.htm

WASHINGTON - One editor complained that Havana sympathizers were transforming a scholarly enterprise into ''their own private Fidel Castro fan page.'' A user was tossed out after threatening to sue another for libel.

The fuss is over the Cuba entry in Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia created, edited and administered entirely by volunteers with the aim of becoming a web-based knowledge repository for humanity.

But the Cuba entry, like those on President Bush and abortion, has been snared in intense political divisions over everything from the impact of U.S. sanctions on the communist-ruled island to whether it should have a separate section on its human rights record. Russia and North Korea do not.

There have been so many dueling edits -- 30 entries on April 27 alone -- that the article has been placed off-limits to first-time or unregistered users. The article has notices alerting readers that the neutrality of four sections is under dispute.

A central tenet of Wikipedia is that articles must be written in a neutral point of view. But, as the debate on the talk page attached to the Cuba article demonstrates, neutrality is often in the eye of the beholder.

The debate over Cuba turned intense after Adam Carr, who identifies himself as having a PhD in history from the University of Melbourne in Australia and a gay rights activist, introduced this sentence high in the article: ``Cuba is a socialist republic, in which the Communist Party of Cuba is the sole legal political party, and is the only state in the western hemisphere that is not a democracy.''

This prompted responses that went from scholarly citations of political scientists with definitions of democracy, to accusations of not-so-hidden political agendas.

Bruce Hallman wrote that calling Cuba undemocratic is a ''logical fallacy'' because it applies ''capitalistic values'' in the context of a socialist society.

'Might it be possible to write the article without using the word `democracy' at all?'' he suggested.

''Sorry, comrade, no dice,'' answered Carr, one of the few writers who posts a description of himself. ``These comments show quite clearly that you are a communist, or at least someone who actively supports the Castro dictatorship, not just ... someone who is naïve about the realities of Cuba.''

With neither side giving in, on April 15 a ''mediation cabal''-- an informal mediator -- joined the discussion because the talk page had become ``huge.'' The cabal suggested citing reputable sources to back the Cuba-is-not-a-democracy sentence.

''If we need a citation that Cuba is not a democracy, then maybe we need citation that Cuba is in Latin America,'' retorts CJK, another user.

''Cuba is a dictatorship, plain and simple,'' says Carr, calling Castro's foreign supporters ``gullible idiots.''

Failing to produce an agreement, the cabal departed after complaining that several editors were being rude.

Others argued that if the article discusses human rights in Cuba, it should also point out U.S. human rights abuses. ''We will not be distracted by the well-known communist diversionary tactic of playing bogus moral equivalence games,'' Carr responded.

Scott Grayban, a talk page writer who identifies himself as a U.S. air force veteran, calls Carr ''nothing more than a pro-Bush hate-Cuba type person'' and in a separate email threatened to sue Carr for libel. An administrator promptly banned Grayban for life from editing Wikipedia.

Other users also have been banned, including ''Comandante'' who has changed the Cuba article more than 700 times. Another participant wrote that Comandante's internet address suggests he lives in Cuba.

''If he has a computer and free access to the internet, that makes him part of the privileged elite in Cuba,'' Carr wrote.

''If Congressional staffers are banned, certainly a propagandist for Castro deserves the same,'' wrote 172, who claims to be a history professor at a U.S. undergraduate institution.

A few years ago, online discussions of this sort would have gone unnoticed. But Wikipedia is now the 17th most visited site in the world and its traffic continues to grow at a fast pace, according to Alexa Internet, a web-ranking outfit owned by Amazon.com.

Created by web entrepreneur Jimmy Wales, who today heads the foundation that oversees the site, Wikipedia is an example of the power of ''social computing'' -- the ability of users to create their own content without relying on the filters of newspaper or hard-copy encyclopedia editors.

''We've got this whole movement of social computing and information of users, by users, for users,'' says Peter Kim, of the Internet research firm Forrester Research. ``The beauty of this sort of technology is that its editable and that the community will police itself.''

Type in ''Cuba'' or ''Fidel Castro''' into Yahoo! or Google and Wikipedia is one of the top hits. The encyclopedia has more than 1.1 million entries in the English language alone.

Wikipedia has had some widely reported stumbles.

A hoax entry wrongly implicating a journalist John Seigenthaler in the JFK assassination went unnoticed for seven months, and several U.S. congressional staffers were caught altering their bosses' entries.

But one study suggested that Wikipedia has only marginally more errors than Britannica, which disputes the conclusion.

Most articles are uncontroversial, said Kat Walsh, a volunteer administrator for Wikipedia. But ''where people are out fighting in the real world, they're going to have differences of opinion on Wikipedia as well,'' she said.

Despite all the revisions, the Cuba article contains some glaring omissions -- no mention of the Helms-Burton Act that tightened the embargo, for example -- some mangled syntax (''After two decades of government without elections, repetitive failures of economic experiments, lack of freedom and respect for basic human rights made discontent among Cuban population to grow'') and no agreement.

Walsh says this is all part of the plan.

She says Wikipedia already has more than 900 volunteer administrators patrolling the site to protect it from vandals and other troublemakers.

And contributors can ask for a non-binding mediation -- as the Cuba writers did on April 28. If that fails, a binding arbitration can be requested.

''There are some chaotic elements but on the whole, the community is developing ways to respond to it,'' Walsh said.

[Yupster]

66. Here's Human Rights Watch then

http://www.hrw.org/wr2k3/americas5.html

Of particular interest is the Varela Project that President Carter talked about on his visit there.

It turns out that the Cuban Constitution grants the right of popular referrendum to any petition that gets 10,000 voters to sign. Who knew?

Well a group of very brave dissidents went through the trouble of getting 11,000 brave Cuban voters to sign onto a referrendum requesting multi-party elections and government reforms. They delivered it to the Assembly two days before President Carter's visit, and President Carter told the Cuban people about it in a televised address he made in Spanish on Cuban TV.

So when's the referrendum coming, and how's it going to change Cuba?

Come on. This is a dictatorship. We don't vote for things the President For Life doesn't want.

Instead of scheduling the referrendum, The Chefe announced a new petition drive. This one gathered many more signatures and it declared the socialist status of the Revolutionary Cuban government to be permanent and unchangeable.

Faced with two petitions, what could the Assembly do?

They cancelled any talk of a referrendum and quickly passed the petition organized by the President For Life.

Such is the workings of Demcracy when you have a President For Life.

At least the Cuban people know there is such a thing even if it isn't being followed thanks to President Carter's brave visit. Maybe after the President For Life dies someday, the Cuban people can have a little more say in their government.

President For Life Fidel has named his brother heir though, and the Chefe has plenty of sons behind him, so it could end up a long-term monarchy too. Only time will tell.

[killbotfactory]

70. Hey, look, another side to this coin...

As for the Varela Project, both its name and its program were created by the CIA and Oswaldo Paya was hand picked by the Agency to be the leader of this Washington sponsored farce. With all of the resources of the Times, Brooks cannot be ignorant about this.

The 75 so-called "dissidents" were all people who were funded right out of the American Interest Section located in Havana by the American section chief James Cason. Some $20 million, according to press reports, was funneled to the "democracy movement" through organizations associated with the misnamed National Endowment for Democracy a surrogate CIA front which, even though its money mostly comes from the US government, masquerades as an NGO.

How would Attorney General Ashcroft react if he found 75 American citizens carrying on with demonstrations and demanding "real" democracy in the US, who were secretly on the payroll of a foreign government openly dedicated to the destruction of the US government? Would he go for indefinite detention without access to a lawyer or a trail maybe?

http://politicalaffairs.net/article/view/154/1/76/

[Yupster]

72. So the Cuban Constitution allows

for referrendum if 10,000 voters sign a petition.

Ten thousand brave Cubans signed the petition demanding a vote on allowing opposition parties to campaign for office and they get instead a law proclaiming the Socialist Party the permanent ruling governing body of Cuba and you're on the government's side?

You don't think opposition parties should be allowed to campaign for office?

Well there's one thing you, Bush and Fidel would all agree to.

[killbotfactory]

83. From the previous article:

"(he needed notarized signatures which he didn’t get)"

[killbotfactory]

85. From the Carter Q&A session in Havana

Jose L. Toledo, Dean – Law School:
It is a tribute to justice that you recognize part of the work of our Revolution, which has been built during these long and hard years of work by our people and there are those who have tried to keep it hidden, to misinterpret it and who for 40 years have been working to destroy it. A reflection of this can be seen in the lack of knowledge of the organization that permeates the Cuban State and its operations.

We have frequently heard that in Cuba there are no free elections, when in fact every five years this country celebrates the most free election process, because no one is told what party to vote for, because no citizen is limited in their right to vote, because our President has to be elected by congressmen every 5 years and then, in a second round must be elected again in order for him to be President of the country, and many more things which I could not cover in one session and which is not my goal.

I think it is also necessary, since you have talked of our Constitution, to clarify that legislative initiative is not the same as constitutional reform. The legislative initiative, a right given by the constitution, which was adopted through about 98% of our people exercising their right to vote freely. This right is exercised with strict respect for the Constitution and its laws.

It is not possible to try to use a bill to contradict the legal order of this nation. And the reform, which is provided for in our Constitution and few Constitutions grant this right to their citizens.

This Aula Magna, in which we find ourselves is center of the academic life and location of many of our historical battles, keeps among its most valuable treasures the remains of Felix Varela, priest, one of the patriots who, through his ideas, helped to set the foundations of the Cuban nation and whose legacy is the highest moral standards which are represented by the Cubans as their independence, sovereignty and freedom. And among this legacy is the most valuable for Cubans, which is the one that says that only the Cubans, in total autonomy and originality, should decide on our issues, which was proven when he proclaimed that Cuba should be not only a geographical island but a political one. For this reason, I believe that it is such a great insult to this noble Cuban intellectual, when his name is used to designate a project whose origins, as far as we know, lie among those people in the United States, and whose intentions are to destroy the people’s revolutionary work, to undermine the legal and constitutional government that the Cuban nation has erected in due exercise of their sovereignty. Something that is inconceivable is to use the legal structure of a country to subvert its basic principles.

With all due respect, and asking that you forgive my previous comment, possibly for its length, and knowing your honesty, and your high ethical standards that you are known for and as well as your experience as a politician, I ask you:
Does the Constitution of the United States of America offer the possibility for a minority group of infamous citizens, fostered by alien influences, to change the founding principles of the American nation? Thank you (Applause).

http://www.cartercenter.org/documents/584.pdf

[Judi Lynn]

86. Just read some of this translation already, and have to thank you

for posting it here. Have never seen it until now. It's excellent.

I'm so glad the people in the audience got a chance to talk with President Carter, and it was excellent that one of them got it on record that Cuba PAID appropriate compensation to people for properties appropriated by the new government, except for the ones who moved to the United States, who rejected the offers.

It was good that it was formally discussed with Carter, and entered into record for his public files. In only a couple of hundred years or more, most Americans will FINALLY understand this, after the truth has had a chance to get past the propaganda.

It was good one of the people pointed out that the priest Varela would have turned in his grave knowing his name had been used in connection with a project handled by a small group in Cuba, tied to the Miami Cuban Mafia which has been responsible for killing and maiming Cubans over these 45+ years in continual acts of terrorism.

I'm glad he listened, and thought these things over, and that they are all on record at his Carter Center now.

[Mika]

77. So the petition that had fewer sigs should be enacted?

The Cuban National Assembly formally received the Varela petition (which calls for a complete change of the Cuban parliamentary system, the Cuban health care system, the Cuban education system, all to a privatization system that includes religious/Catholic institutions receiving taxpayer support for their schools and hospitals) for consideration by the petition committee (made up of elected representatives of the Assembly) - all well and good and legal.

11,000 signatures for Varela.


Meanwhile there was a referendum in which the Cuban people can vote on whether or not they want to retain their socialized system of government infrastructure or move to a privatized/semi privatized system of infrastructure.

Over 6,000,000 vote to retain, and make permanent, the current socialized system of government.



Now.. you wonder in some kind of faux amazement that the Cuban National Assembly isn’t moving forward to enact, on a national scale, the Varela petition signed by 10,000 members of the (Catholic) Christian Democratic party - and is, astonishingly, functioning democratically by majority vote?


Instead, you call the (unbeknownst to you) democratic process in Cuba "a dictatorship".

You've stated that the privatization/faith based funding petition signed by a stark minority should be enacted, and that the vote of the majority of citizens be ignored.

Your stance seems more in line with Bushista policy.


:crazy:

[Yupster]

79. No one was insisting on enactment

The call was for a referendum of the voters. That's all.

[Judi Lynn]

45. I found a thumbnail look at Batista, to refresh the memory of anyone

who has momentarily forgotten about him, or never really knew about him to start with. This tiny look is wildly abbreviated but contains the overall picture very well:

3 FULGENCIO BATISTA
President of Cuba
Cuban Army Sergeant Fulgencio Batiste, first seized power in a 1932 coup. He was FDR's handpicked dictator to counteract leftists who had overthrown strongman Gerardo Machado, "the Butcher". Batista ruled for several years, then left for Miami, returning in 1952 just in time for another coup, against elected president Carlos Prio Socorras. His new regime was recognized in a flash by President Eisenhower.
Under Batista, U.S. interests flourished and little was said about democracy. With the loyal support of Batista, Mafioso boss Meyer Lansky developed Havana into an international drug port. Cabinet offices were bought and sold and military officials made huge sums on smuggling and vice rackets. Havana became a fashionable hot spot where America's rich and famous clinked cocktails with mobsters.
As the gap between the rich and poor grew wider, the poor grew impatient. In 1953, Fidel Castro led an armed group of rebels in a failed uprising on the Moncada army barracks. Fidel temporarily fled the country and Batista struck back with a vengeance. Freedom of speech was curtailed and "subversive" teachers, lawyers and public officials were fired from their jobs. Death squads tortured and killed thousands of "communists." Batista was assisted in his crackdown by Lansky and other members of organized crime who believed Castro would jeopardize their gambling and drug trade. Despite this, Batista remained a friend to Eisenhower and the U.S. until he was finally overthrown by Castro in 1959.
(snip/)

http://home.iprimus.com.au/korob/fdtcards/Caribbean.html#Card%203

[Yupster]

48. He's been gone for 47 years

What relevance does he have today?

[N90ATC]

109. Exactly!

Castro is a leftover relic of the Cold War. He can't die fast enough. Democracy now!

[Say_What]

115. Gusano guano...

[Yupster]

33. Raul was pretty good at the execution game

as they were taking power too. Give credit where credit is due.

[Judi Lynn]

35. The US-supported dictator they were fighting was "pretty good" at

rounding up young men and women, torturing them, sometimes to death, throwing their bodies into the streets and fields, bombing them, and running an absolutely filthy government, from the city which was called the "Whorehouse of the Caribbean."

But that's not important as long as right-wing assholes have complete power. None of that matters.

[Yupster]

37. I don't understand your argument

You're defending summary executions because of what their enemy did? Is that your position?

Why defend a dictatorship? Why defend a President For Life and his little brother?

[killbotfactory]

50. The "summary executions" occured over 40 years ago

What relevence do they have today?

[Yupster]

54. The relevance is

that the guy who did them will likely soon be appointed President for Life of a dictatorship. You don't see that as a problem?

[killbotfactory]

55. Who? Castro?

He's almost dead.

And if you have any sense of irony, check this out:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2489910#2494172

[Yupster]

57. Raul

He's five years behind Fidel. That makes him President For Life The Second.

[brentspeak]

63. It wouldn't matter if the executions occurred 40 THOUSAND years ago

As long as the alleged perpetrators are still alive, they are still subject to judgement.

[Common Sense Party]

46. Aren't torture and executions of civilians BAD things?

Or are such atrocities only bad when right-wingers commit them?

The irony and double standards are so thick here one could cut them with a knife.

I guess, brentspeak, some DUers don't want to let facts get in the way of hero-worship.

[Judi Lynn]

51. Where is your resource for your claim on torture and execution of

civilians? If you take a moment to think about it, you'd see it'd be excellent if you could substantiate your charges.

The one about voting at the point of a gun is priceless. Believe me, I know you're not going to have a link for that one.

[Common Sense Party]

52. Post 28.

[killbotfactory]

53. Oh, an unsourced account

And it's repeated in a bunch of blogs! Very credible.

[killbotfactory]

49. here's slightly different account

Matthews' visit was naturally very brief. As soon as he left us we were ready to move on. We were warned, however, to redouble our guard since Eutimio was in the area; Almeida was quickly ordered to find him and take him prisoner. Julito Díaz, Ciro Frías, Camilo Cienfuegos, and Efigenio Ameijeiras were also in the patrol. It was Ciro Frías who overcame Eutimio easily, and he was brought to us. We found a .45 pistol on him, three grenades and a safe conduct pass from Casillas. Once captured with this incriminating evidence, he could not doubt his fate. He fell on his knees before Fidel and asked simply that we kill him. He said he knew he deserved to die. He seemed to have aged; there were a good many grey hairs at his temple I had never noticed before.

The moment was extraordinarily tense. Fidel reproved him harshly for his betrayal, and Eutimio wanted only to be shot, recognizing his guilt. None of us will forget when Ciro Frías, a close friend of Eutimio, began to speak. He reminded Eutimio of everything he had done for him, of the little favors he and his brother had done for Eutimio's family, and of how Eutimio had betrayed them, first by causing the death of Ciro's brother — who Eutimio had turned over to the army and who had been killed by them a few days before — and then by trying to destroy the whole group. It was a long, emotional tirade, which Eutimio listened to silently, his head bent. He was asked if he wanted anything and he answered that yes, he wanted the revolution, or better said us, to take care of his children.

The revolution has kept this promise. The name Eutimio Guerra resurfaces today in this book, but it has already been forgotten, perhaps even by his children. They go by another name and attend one of our many schools; they receive the same treatment as all the children of the country, and are working toward a better life. One day, however, they will have to know that their father was brought to revolutionary justice because of his treachery. It is also just that they know that the peasant — who in his craving for glory and wealth had been tempted by corruption and had tried to commit a grave crime — had nevertheless recognized his error. He had not even hinted at asking for clemency, which he knew he did not deserve. They should also know that in his last moments he remembered his children and asked our leader that they be treated well.

A heavy storm broke and the sky darkened. In the midst of the deluge, lightning streaking the sky, and the rumble of thunder, one lightning bolt struck followed closely by a clap of thunder, and Eutimio Guerra's life was ended. Even those compañeros standing near him could not hear the shot.

[Yupster]

56. What a beautiful execution

Fidel even murders with revolutionary poetry.

Was General Ochoa's execution of similar literary merit?

[Judi Lynn]

59. You're just gibbering now, aren't you?

How do you compare the execution of a traitor with the actions practiced by our own CIA since long ago of slaughtering people simply to scare their fellow civilians in other countries?

You can find out all you can stand to read about psy-ops General Edward G. Lansdale and his sophisticated approach to life from his own words.

A Lansdale discussion of psy-war tactics outlined in a two-volume U.S. Army psy-war manual published in 1976 (Army Pamphlet 525-71) focuses on this conflation of terrorism with humor and makes one wonder whether the long-term damage of the terror approach has been seriously considered. The examples given also reflect a deeply condescending assumption of the target populations' simple-mindedness:

When I introduced the practical-joke aspect of psywar to the Philippine Army, it stimulated some imaginative operations that were remarkably effective.... One psywar operation played upon the popular dread of an asuang, or vampire.... When a Huk patrol came along the trail, the ambushers silently snatched the last man of the patrol.... They punctured his neck with two holes, vampire-fashion, held the body up by the heels, drained it of blood, and put the corpse back on the trail. When the Huks returned to look for the missing man and found their bloodless comrade, every member of the patrol believed that the asuang had got him and that one of them would be next.... When daylight came, the whole Huk squadron moved out of the vicinity.82
(snip)

http://www.statecraft.org/chapter4.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

More recent, more complex operations were developed in later stages. Here's more:

December 11, 2003

Preemptive Manhunting
The CIA's New Assassination Program
By DOUGLAS VALENTINE

~snip~
The CIA has concocted various euphemisms for its long-standing policy of assassinating civilians whose ideas and political beliefs it hates. In a 24 July 2003 article for CounterPunch titled Nation of Assassins, I listed some of them: "targetted kill" being the most popular, along with neutralize and "executive action". I've been waiting for the new euphemism with which the media will assuage the public and now we have it from disinformation specialist Seymour Hersh: "Preemptive Manhunting."

Preemptive Manhunting is the new name for assassination and, according to Hersh (quoting one of his usual anonymous sources), the rationale for resorting to this immoral and illegal measure is that "The only way we can win is to go unconventional. We're going to have to play their game. Guerrilla versus guerrilla. Terrorism versus terrorism. We've got to scare the Iraqis into submission."

This is a textbook description of "selective terrorism" as the ultimate form of psychological warfare, and Hersh is correct in describing Preemptive Manhunting as the rebirth of the CIA's Phoenix Program in South Vietnam.

For those who are unaware of it, a typical Phoenix Program operation occurred in February 1968, when former Senator Bob Kerrey (now added to the 9/11 Investigation team) led a seven-member Navy SEAL team into Thanh Phong village and murdered more than a dozen women and children--a war crime for which Kerry received a Bronze Star. That's right--Kerrey lied when he got back to camp and reported that he and his boys had killed 21 Viet Cong guerrillas. We can expect a lot of this in Iraq, Afghanistan, and any other place Bush sends the CIA to terrorize the civilian populoation into submission.
(snip)

http://www.counterpunch.org/valentine12112003.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Perhaps a display of your delicate reproach could be well spent here in a finely honed comment on really BIG vicious, murderous behavior from your own country.

[Yupster]

64. A traitor?

General Ochoa was executed for drug trafficking though it's hard to find anyone who actually believes that line outside of the Cuban propaganda machine.

So what was he executed for then?

We'll never know until the dictatorship is ended and the vaults are opened.

In the meantime all we know is that he went from revolutionary hero who lived a Spartan life to accused, arrested, tried, convicted and executed in one month.

What an efficient judiciary Cuba has. It serves the Chefe.

[killbotfactory]

67. This propaganda machine?

http://www.walterlippmann.com/Cuba-after-ochoa.html

[Yupster]

73. I don't think General Ochoa's execution

had a thing to do with drug trafficking.

So why was he murdered?

Maybe he became too big a hero in Angola for the Chefe and his brother. Maybe he criticized the Chefe one time too many. He was known to have said he didn't like Cuban boys being sent to die in far off wars.

So why was he killed?

We'll probably never know. He went from a lifetime hero to executed in a month.

Are there any DU'ers who would support that?

Why are DU'ers supporting this dictatorship? We wouldn't put up with this from any other government on earth and somehow anything is fine with anything the Chefe does.

What's with the blinders whenever Fidel comes up?

[killbotfactory]

84. Well, then, that's your opinion

It seems like it was all about drug trafficing, and trying to shut down any narcotics operation which would give the US an excuse to invade, like in Panama.

[Common Sense Party]

58. Source?

[killbotfactory]

69. It's from Death of a Traitor

by Aleida March, Che's wife.

[Yupster]

75. Think of all the time and money that could be saved

if we would just use spouses opinions instead of courts and lawyers.

Yes he killed that guy, but his wife said it was the right thing to do.

Well that's good enough for us, isn't it. Lawyers are such a pain in the ass anyway. Always slowing things down.

[killbotfactory]

82. Yeah, imagine! Killing people in a revolutionary war!

Monsters

[brentspeak]

107. Congratulations. You finally got something right

He (Che) was a monster, as Fidel still is.

Hitler, Stalin, Che Guevara, Pol Pot, Batista, Pinochet, Mao, Idi Amin, Fidel Castro, Mussolini -- a Hall of Fame of 20th century monsters.

Now if you were to admit that anybody willing to spam propaganda on their behalf is a liar as well as a complete and utter fool, then there might be hope for you yet.

[killbotfactory]

102. And, actually, it was by Che himself

The copyright confused me, and the sight was down for a while.

http://marxists.org/archive/guevara/1963/reminiscences/index.htm

But, hell, it doesn't have the flair of the heavily redacted diary passage, which gives the impression that che just shot the guy to take his stuff.

[Judi Lynn]

60. Wondered why you opted not to include your source, so I found it myself.

It was written by Alvaro Vargas Llosa, who is entirely involved in the right-wing, conservative movement. He's a conservative writer. He wrote a book to explain what a zero Che Guevara was.

Here's a short bio.:

Alvaro Vargas Llosa
Senior Fellow and Director of the Center on Global Prosperity
Send Email


Alvaro Vargas Llosa is a Senior Fellow and director of The Center on Global Prosperity at the Independent Institute. He is a native of Peru and received his B.S.C. in international history from the London School of Economics. He has been a member of Board of the Miami Herald Publishing Company and op-ed page editor and columnist at the Miami Herald and a contributor to the Wall Street Journal, Los Angeles Times, BBC World Service, and Time Magazine. In addition, Mr. Vargas Llosa has been a commentator at Univision TV, news director at RCN radio (both English and Spanish), London Correspondent for Spain’s ABC daily newspaper, commentator at Radio Nacional de Espana in Madrid, international affairs editor at Expreso (Peru), arts editor at Oiga, commentator at Panamericana Television, host of the weekly TV program “Planeta 3” (aired in twelve Latin American countries), and columnist at La Nación (Argentina), El Nacional (Venezuela), Reforma (Mexico), El Tiempo (Colombia), El País (Uruguay), El Listín Diario (Dominican Republic).

His articles have also appeared in Granta Magazine, International Herald Tribune, El País, and El Mundo, as well as distributed through Agencia Interamericana de Prensa Economica (AIPE). He is the author of the books, The Madness of Things Peruvian, Guide to the Perfect Latin American Idiot (with Carlos Alberto Montaner and Plinio Apuleyo Mendoza), The Manufacturing of Poverty (with Carlos Alberto Montaner and Plinio Apuleyo Mendoza), El Exilio Indomable, Cuando Hablaba Dormido, El Diablo en Campaña, En el Reino del Espanto, Tiempos de Resistencia, La Mestiza de Pizarro, La Contenta Barbarie, and Liberty for Latin America.

Mr. Vargas Llosa was press spokesman for the Democratic Front presidential campaign (1990) in Peru and Advisor on International Relations for the presidential campaign of Perœ Posible (2001). He is the recipient of the A.I.R. Award for Best Current Affairs Radio Show in Florida in 1998, Puerto Rican Parliament Award for the Defense of Freedom (1997), the Award for the Defense of Freedom from the Peruvian Asociación de Pescadores Artesanales de Chimbote (2000), The Freedom of Expression Award given by the Association of Ibero-American Journalists (2003), and his book Liberty for Latin America received the Sir Antony Fisher International Memorial Award (2006).

He has lectured widely on world economic and political issues including at the Mont Pelerin Society, Naumann Foundation (Germany), FAES Foundation (Spain), Brazilian Institute of Business Studies, Fundación Libertad (Argentina), CEDICE Foundation (Venezuela), Florida International University, and the Ecuadorian Chamber of Commerce.

Books:
The Che Guevara Myth
Liberty for Latin America

Events:
5/3/2005 - Liberty For Latin America: How to Undo 500 Years of State Oppression
5/14/2004 - Why Liberty Is Failing in Latin America
- Alvaro Vargas Llosa Book Tour: Liberty for Latin America

The Independent Review:
Winter 2004 - The Individualist Legacy in Latin America
Winter 2002 - Latin American Liberalism: A Mirage?
(snip)

http://www.independent.org/aboutus/person_detail.asp?id=494

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

His article you quoted was published in the Independent Institute's website:
http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1535

It was originally published by the New Republic, a neo-con, nasty bit of rubbish.

The Independent Institute is a conservative organization.

[brentspeak]

62. Character assassination won't help you. He's a journalist, nothing more

I found his article on the New Republic, which is a "neo-con, nasty bit of rubbish" only if you focus solely on the neo-con syndicated columnists who write for it and ignore the equal number of anti-neo-con syndicated columnists who also write for it.

You've already pretty much admitted in your first response to my post that Che did in fact commit those executions referred to in the article-excerpt. Attacking the messenger and ad hominem issue-diversion will not change the reality of actual events.

[killbotfactory]

68. He's a member of a pro-Free market think tank

http://www.independent.org/aboutus/person_detail.asp?id=494

Just the source you would go to to find unbiased information on socialist leaders.

[Judi Lynn]

87. Very odd thing just happened, around 5:30 am, est, Wednesday

I was looking for a photo of the White House plumbers, hoping to discover a group photo with all the Cuban "exiles" together with the others, and this came up on page four:

http://images.google.com/images?q=White+House+plumbers&ndsp=18&svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2004-37,GGLD:en&start=54&sa=N

It's a photo of the same cretin, Alvaro Vargas Llosa! Small world!

[Judi Lynn]

101. Not a trace of character on his face, either. Pure slime.

Yuck.

[Say_What]

89. *Journalist* published by anti-Cuba, anti-Chavez, and RW rags

in Gusanoville. Oh yeah, REAL credible. :crazy:

[killbotfactory]

100. not only that...

"has been a member of Board of the Miami Herald Publishing Company and op-ed page editor and columnist at the Miami Herald"

http://www.independent.org/aboutus/person_detail.asp?id=494

clearly, he doesn't have an axe to grind.

[Say_What]

103. Miami Herald aka the Oligarch's Daily n/t

[Mika]

121. Miami journalists take U.S. pay

Miami journalists take U.S. pay
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/15465622.htm

At least 10 South Florida journalists, including three from El Nuevo Herald, received regular payments from the U.S. government for programs on Radio Martí and TV Martí, two broadcasters aimed at undermining the communist government of Fidel Castro. The payments totaled thousands of dollars over several years.

Those who were paid the most were veteran reporters and a freelance contributor for El Nuevo Herald, the Spanish-language newspaper published by the corporate parent of The Miami Herald.

Makes one wonder: just how many more are there?

Funny how the reichwing, and their propagandists, accuse those who promote normalization with Cuba, those who provide realistic information about current Cuba, are accused of spamming, lying, of being paid propagandists, Castro lovers, etc, etc.

They mewl and whine about "character assassination" of their Bushbot sources who are writing for reichwingnut rags.

Meanwhile, it turns out that many of their sources are actual US government paid propagandists.

[brentspeak]

108. As I said -- denial

And useful idiots.

[Say_What]

112. BWAHAHAHAHAHA

typical GUSANO response

:rofl:

[Judi Lynn]

116. How long HAS it been since you've seen the old "useful idiots" insult?

It really takes a person back......

[brentspeak]

117. Unfortunately for you

I'm neither a worm nor a Miami Cuban exile -- just an average American who loves democracy and hates liars. In fact, I consider both Batista and Che to have been murderous criminals, and I despise the Miami/NJ pro-Batista crowd as much as I do the non-Cuban Fidel sycophants. (Though non-Batista crowd Cuban-Americans and ordinary Cuban nationals are both fine in my book.)

Some of the more "heartwarming" scenes from Fidel's Cuba, during the Che period:






"“I ended the problem with a .32 caliber pistol, in the right side of his brain.... His belongings were now mine.” - Che Guevara, January 1957

[Judi Lynn]

118. We have more recent events than that, of course, you can revel in.

Consider the ongoing blood bath _Bush unleashed in Haiti, not to mention the unbelievable photos on the internet from Iraq: BOTH absolutely EVIL, and UNJUSTIFIED in every possible sense.

You'll not impress anyone with your childish display.

[Bridget Burke]

61. So--what's your source?

Where's Che's famous "machine gun"?

Some people died during the Cuban Revolution. And some were executed afterward. But there were no "mass murders."

Suggested Readings: Che Guevara: A Revolutionary Life by Jon Anderson. Companero: The Life & Death of Che Guevara by Jorge G Castaneda. Guevara, Also Known as Che by Paco Ignacio Taibo, II. All fairly recent biographies by respected writers.

[Endangered Specie]

41. Funny, I was thinking "Oh Brother" reading this

:eyes:

[RadiDem]

74. Viva Fidel! Viva Hugo! Viva Evo! Viva La Revolucion! Fuera Yanquis!

:-)

[Anakin Skywalker]

76. Damn! I Thought No One Can Be Healed

without the miraculous blessings of Pat Robertson and his holy 700 Club, man?!

[ProudDad]

78. What a tyrant

The poor Cuban people. Having to live under that tyrant...

They have to suffer with universal health care (with an MD in a clinic in every neighborhood), guaranteed housing and food and one of the most vibrant arts community in the world.

Poor bastards!

:sarcasm:

[Yupster]

81. It's not fair saying they have to live under Castro

Even though Fidel has pledged to stop people from illegally emigrating from the island, many still are able to.

Many can also legally leave.

If you get to travel you can defect too.

And once every generation or so the gates open and thousands can leave at once.

So it's not fair to say Cubans have to live under Castro.

[Mika]

88. Both the US and Cuban govs agreed to the immigration accords

Posted by Yupster -->"Even though Fidel has pledged to stop people from illegally emigrating from the island, many still are able to."


Castro this Castro that, blah blah blah. (((YAWN)))

Both the US government and the Cuban government agreed to the current immigration accords. It was the US government that pushed the Cuban government to stop illegal migration to the US. Its kind of hypocritical to accuse the Cuban government of having some kind of ill intent in this when it is the US gov pushing them to do so. Just as is the US gov pushing Mexico to do the same thing, except that the Cuban government is living up to its end of the agreement.

--


Posted by Yupster -->"Many can also legally leave."


Over 20,000 legal US immigration visas are offered to Cubans in Cuba - more than any other nation - yet, not all are even applied for, AND the US gov is stalling the process so badly that it has created a backlog. (Of course the Cubaphobes mewl that it is Castro stalling the process - Castro this Castro that..)

--


Posted by Yupster -->"If you get to travel you can defect too."


And just what percentage actually do? What 1%? 2%? (For those that do, the US offers a plethura of special perks that are available only to Cuban immigrants, such as - instant entry, instant work visa, instant green card status, instant social security, instant access to welfare, instant access to section 8 assisted housing (with a $41,000 income exemption for Cuban expats only), instant food stamps, plus more. IOW, extra special enhanced social programs designed to entice Cuban expatriation to Miami/USA. FOR CUBANS ONLY.


--


Posted by Yupster -->"And once every generation or so the gates open and thousands can leave at once."


According the US/Cuba migration accords signed in the mid 90's ANY mass migration from Cuba to the US is tantamount to a declaration of war by Cuba upon the US. This was pushed by the US gov negotiators.


Of course the Cubaphobes continually mewl that by Cuba's preventing of illegal migrations to the US by Cubans seeking the special perks offered to them (no matter what their criminal past might be) and thereby preventing war with the US is a sure sign of Castro's brutality (as if Cuba should be desirous of an attack/occupation by the US military).
:crazy:

[Yupster]

92. So why do so many people want to leave Cuba?

We in America have an illegal immigrant problem.

Cuba has an illegal emigrant problem.

Doesn't it say anything that so many people want to leave Cuba that they will even do it illegally?

I understand why so many want to leave Mexico. The country can't provide enough jobs or services to its exploding population.

So what's with Cuba?

Why do so many want to leave there?

And I understand that most DU'ers have no use for Presidents for Life regardless of where they reside, but I don't get this minority group of DU'ers that will defend the Chefe so strongly. Some people will defend stuff in Cuba that they would never defend anywhere else.

On this thread we have people defending

Revolutionary Justice
Summary Executions
The Execution of a national hero in one month
A Constitution which guarantees the Communist Party a Central Role
Legislation guaranteeing the government will always remain socialist
Candidates not able to campaign for office
Seizure of private property
A President For Life
Who names his brother heir

This thread didn't even get to Cuba's foreign military adventures or support for Puerto Rican bombers.

So what is it about Cuba that makes some DU'ers support things there that they rightly condemn anywhere else, especially in the USA.

When a revolutionary hero is accused of murder, he's defended by quoting his wife saying the killing was the correct thing to do. Where does this blind adherance come from? If any other member of a dictatorship murdered someone, would any DU'er be bold enough to offer that the murderer's wife waid it was okay? I just don't get this support of Cuba.

For me it takes too many compromises to support El Chefe so I won't.

[Judi Lynn]

93. You're attempting to avoid reference to the 45+ year old EMBARGO

forced upon Cuba, starting with the Eisenhower administration, the crippling pressure which has nearly destroyed Cuba, and forced it into measures other countries have never had to face.

Countries like Mexico and all the others from which immigrants stream to the U.S., dying by the HUNDREDS ANNUALLY haven't had this deliberate attempt to destroy them with which to struggle.

It is denounced formally yearly by the General Assembly at the United Nations, and was denounced by the Pope and any other rational person.

The Effects of the US ’Embargo’ Against Cuba
Rémy HERRERA – 7 October 2003

The U.S. embargo against Cuba is condemned by an ever larger and by now overwhelming majority of member-states of the United Nations General Assembly. However, it continues to be imposed by the U.S. government’s isolated but stubborn will.
In spite of the United Nations repeated injunctions, notably its resolution 56/9 of the 27th of November 2001. The purpose of this expose is to denounce this embargo in the strongest terms for the violation of law it represents, and for its total lack of legitimacy. These measures of arbitrary constraint are tantamount to a U.S. undeclared act of war against Cuba; their devastating economic and social effects deny the people to exercise their basic human rights, and are unbearable for them. They directly subject the people to the maximum of suffering and infringe upon the physical and moral integrity of the whole population, and in the first place of the children, of the elderly and of women. In this respect, they can be seen as a crime against humanity .
(snip/...)

http://www.alternatives.ca/article876.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Denial of Food and Medicine:
The Impact Of The U.S. Embargo
On The Health And Nutrition In Cuba"
-An Executive Summary-
American Association for World Health Report
Summary of Findings
March 1997

After a year-long investigation, the American Association for World Health has determined that the U.S. embargo of Cuba has dramatically harmed the health and nutrition of large numbers of ordinary Cuban citizens. As documented by the attached report, it is our expert medical opinion that the U.S. embargo has caused a significant rise in suffering-and even deaths-in Cuba. For several decades the U.S. embargo has imposed significant financial burdens on the Cuban health care system. But since 1992 the number of unmet medical needs patients going without essential drugs or doctors performing medical procedures without adequate equipment-has sharply accelerated. This trend is directly linked to the fact that in 1992 the U.S. trade embargo-one of the most stringent embargoes of its kind, prohibiting the sale of food and sharply restricting the sale of medicines and medical equipment-was further tightened by the 1992 Cuban Democracy Act.

A humanitarian catastrophe has been averted only because the Cuban government has maintained a high level of budgetary support for a health care system designed to deliver primary and preventive health care to all of its citizens. Cuba still has an infant mortality rate half that of the city of Washington, D.C.. Even so, the U.S. embargo of food and the de facto embargo on medical supplies has wreaked havoc with the island's model primary health care system. The crisis has been compounded by the country's generally weak economic resources and by the loss of trade with the Soviet bloc.

Recently four factors have dangerously exacerbated the human effects of this 37-year-old trade embargo. All four factors stem from little-understood provisions of the U.S. Congress' 1992 Cuban Democracy Act (CDA):

1. A Ban on Subsidiary Trade: Beginning in 1992, the Cuban Democracy Act imposed a ban on subsidiary trade with Cuba. This ban has severely constrained Cuba's ability to import medicines and medical supplies from third country sources. Moreover, recent corporate buyouts and mergers between major U.S. and European pharmaceutical companies have further reduced the number of companies permitted to do business with Cuba.

2. Licensing Under the Cuban Democracy Act: The U.S. Treasury and Commerce Departments are allowed in principle to license individual sales of medicines and medical supplies, ostensibly for humanitarian reasons to mitigate the embargo's impact on health care delivery. In practice, according to U.S. corporate executives, the licensing provisions are so arduous as to have had the opposite effect. As implemented, the licensing provisions actively discourage any medical commerce. The number of such licenses granted-or even applied for since 1992-is minuscule. Numerous licenses for medical equipment and medicines have been denied on the grounds that these exports "would be detrimental to U.S. foreign policy interests."

3. Shipping Since 1992:The embargo has prohibited ships from loading or unloading cargo in U.S. ports for 180 days after delivering cargo to Cuba. This provision has strongly discouraged shippers from delivering medical equipment to Cuba. Consequently shipping costs have risen dramatically and further constricted the flow of food, medicines, medical supplies and even gasoline for ambulances. From 1993 to 1996, Cuban companies spent an additional $8.7 million on shipping medical imports from Asia, Europe and South America rather than from the neighboring United States.

4. Humanitarian Aid: Charity is an inadequate alternative to free trade in medicines, medical supplies and food. Donations from U.S. non-governmental organizations and international agencies do not begin to compensate for the hardships inflicted by the embargo on the Cuban public health system. In any case, delays in licensing and other restrictions have severely discouraged charitable contributions from the U.S.

Taken together, these four factors have placed severe strains on the Cuban health system. The declining availability of food stuffs, medicines and such basic medical supplies as replacement parts for thirty-year-old X-ray machines is taking a tragic human toll. The embargo has closed so many windows that in some instances Cuban physicians have found it impossible to obtain life-saving medicines from any source, under any circumstances. Patients have died. In general, a relatively sophisticated and comprehensive public health system is being systematically stripped of essential resources. High-technology hospital wards devoted to cardiology and nephrology are particularly under siege. But so too are such basic aspects of the health system as water quality and food security. Specifically, the AAWH's team of nine medical experts identified the following health problems affected by the embargo:

1. Malnutrition: The outright ban on the sale of American foodstuffs has contributed to serious nutritional deficits, particularly among pregnant women, leading to an increase in low birth-weight babies. In addition, food shortages were linked to a devastating outbreak of neuropathy numbering in the tens of thousands. By one estimate, daily caloric intake dropped 33 percent between 1989 and 1993. 2. Water Quality: The embargo is severely restricting Cuba's access to water treatment chemicals and spare-parts for the island's water supply system. This has led to serious cutbacks in supplies of safe drinking water, which in turn has become a factor in the rising incidence of morbidity and mortality rates from water-borne diseases.

3. Medicines & Equipment: Of the 1,297 medications available in Cuba in 1991, physicians now have access to only 889 of these same medicines - and many of these are available only intermittently. Because most major new drugs are developed by U.S. pharmaceuticals, Cuban physicians have access to less than 50 percent of the new medicines available on the world market. Due to the direct or indirect effects of the embargo, the most routine medical supplies are in short supply or entirely absent from some Cuban clinics.

4. Medical Information: Though information materials have been exempt from the U.S. trade embargo since 1 988, the AAWH study concludes that in practice very little such information goes into Cuba or comes out of the island due to travel restrictions, currency regulations and shipping difficulties. Scientists and citizens of both countries suffer as a result. Paradoxically, the embargo harms some U.S. citizens by denying them access to the latest advances in Cuban medical research, including such products as Meningitis B vaccine, cheaply produced interferon and streptokinase, and an AIDS vaccine currently under-going clinical trials with human volunteers.
(snip/...)

http://www.cubasolidarity.net/aawh.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~snip~
Back in Washington, the proponents of the embargo insist that needed medical supplies can still get to Cuba. But the 300 page AAWH report, "Denial of Food and Medicine: The Impact of the U.S. Embargo on Health and Nutrition in Cuba," provides startling documentation of dozens of cases in which Cuban hospitals could not secure the medicine and equipment they needed because of the sharp restrictions imposed by the 1992 Cuban Democracy Act.
Dr. Julian Ruiz, a surgeon at Calixto Garcia, recounts his 15-day search last September for a Z-Stent Introducer, a small contraption that he needed to operate on a man with colon cancer. Not one could be found in the country. The manufacturer of the Z-Stent, Wilson Cooke Medical Inc. of Winston-Salem, N.C., refused to sell it to the Cubans. Ruiz' staff, scouring the world, finally found a Z-Stent they could buy in Mexico. By that time, the man's cancer had spread.
Exacerbating the shortages are takeovers of foreign firms by U.S. pharmaceutical companies. In 1995, for example, Upjohn Co. merged with Pharmacia, a major Swedish drug company that had been supplying Cuba with millions of dollars worth of chemotherapy drugs, growth hormones and equipment for its medical labs. Within three months, Pharmacia closed its Havana office and stopped all sales.
That same year, Nunc, a Danish firm that supplied Cuba with materials for HIV and hepatitis screening tests, was absorbed by Sybron International of Wisconsin. Eight days after the merger, Nunc executives notified Cuba by fax: "Much to our regret, we have to inform you that unfortunately our cooperation of many years has to be terminated.... In future, we therefore have to follow the directions laid down by the U.S. Government in relation to Cuba."
Nothing has drawn the Catholic Church and the Cuban government closer together than their mutual opposition to the U.S. blockade of medicine and food supplies to Cuba's people.
"Even in warfare, you don't bomb hospitals and schools," says Patrick Sullivan, the pastor of a church in Santa Clara and the only American priest permanently stationed in the country.
A Cuban official in charge of finding and paying for food from abroad recounted her frustration with the embargo. "To ship a thousand tons of powdered milk from New Zealand, I must pay $150,000, when bringing the same amount from Miami would only cost me $25,000," she says.
(snip/...)

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Human_Rights/Cuba_embargo.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So you have the U.S. crushing Cuba on one side with a devastating embargo, and on the other side, luring Cubans to emigrate to the U.S. by offering them a wide assortment of material and legal benefits NEVER offered in such amazing abundance to ANY immigrant group, from ANYWHERE, at ANY TIME. And people like you take time out of their busy days to wonder why it is some Cubans come to the U.S.

I guess you are unaware that some of them move back, too, aren't you? Figures.

I know someone else asked you on this thread, but you didn't answer. I'd like to find out, too, feeling so angry that my years in school studying Spanish didn't even teach me what "EL CHEFE" means. Would you be kind enough to enlighten us?

[Yupster]

96. El jefe means the chief

I've been spelling it wrong inadvertantly.

It's hardly an insult. It just means the boss, or the leader.

As far as Cuba's many problems go, in a shocking development it turns out that it's all America's fault. Who would have thought? What a surprise.

Of course they trade with just about every country of the world, but if they have a shortage of something, it must be America that isn't giving it to them.

I just don't get the blinders that people have about Cuba.

To me this President For Life is no better than any other one around the world. And this single party dictatorship is no better than any other.

[Judi Lynn]

97. You're fact free on the embargo. Things go a lot faster when you're

unencumbered by information you took time to learn.

That's why I included the links, and there are many others behind them.

The embargo is destructive beyond Cuba's ability to overcome. THAT'S WHY THE U.N. CONDEMNS IT ANNUALLY.
The idiotic claim Cuba can just "trade" with every other country side steps the fact. Important machines needed in medicine, etc., etc. bought from other countries cannot have any components manufactured in the U.S., or originally created in the U.S.

It's mentioned in one of the links I posted for your benefit, as it appears you're missing some vital truths.

The EXPENSE of importing items from great distances is, as indicated, far far greater for Cuba than for other countries.

It's so tempting, apparently, for some people to resort to flippancy, but it's a flippancy born of ignorance, or it's a flippancy concealing deliberate misrepresentation.

Once you decide to lower yourself to the responsibility to do your homework, and look for the reality rather than the half-baked conclusions based on propaganda thoughtfully provided you, you'll be a more reliable poster.

[killbotfactory]

99. They want it both ways

They claim the embargo does practically nothing to Cuba, then argue for it's continued existance because it is harmful to the "Castro Regieme".

[Say_What]

104. They NEED Fidel...

if Fidel dies the very lucrative and corrupt Anti-Castro industry in Gusanoville bites the dust. Ros-Lehtinen and her sidekicks the Ditzy-Balistic brothers (Fidel's favorite nephews) may even be challenged in an election rather than running unopposed in that most democratic of all places South Florida. :sarcasm:

I just love watching people unravel every time Fidel or Raul's names are mentioned ;-)


This undated photo released Tuesday Sept. 5, 2006 by Granma, the official publication of the Central Committtee of the Communist Party of Cuba, shows Fidel Castro. Fidel Castro said in a statement Tuesday that he has lost more than 41 pounds since he had intestinal surgery but added that the 'most critical moment' was behind him. The statement was accompanied by photographs of Castro during his convalescence. (AP Photo/Granma)

[Say_What]

98. Congratulations. You demonstrated using a dictionary...

now please do some research instead of regurgitating Calle Ocho GUSANO propaganda.

:rofl:

[ProudDad]

111. You obviously don't know how things

really work there. I do. I've been there, talked with the people.

It's not the dire place the only propoganda the U.S. media allows would have you believe.

A new president every 8 years doesn't define a democracy. The phony elections we have here in the U.S. sure don't indicate a democracy. Hell, we voted for a different guy each of the last two Prez elections than that prick that lives in the white house.

It's how the decisions are made at all levels and the degree to which the needs and desires of the people are taken into account that's important.

[Say_What]

113. Exactly right! US propaganda on its own citizen works fine as

demonstrated by the DU *Cuba* experts that read a book about Cuba by an ex-CIA agent, regurgitate 40-year old Gusano propaganda about the island, and think they're informed.

Meanwhile, in their one-party-two-name corptocracy they're under the impression that they live in freedom and democracy. In the USSA *freedom and democracy* are determined by the color of your skin, 40 million don't have health insurance, millions are homeless, basic education is a joke and higher education will soon be unafordable except for the wealthy.

The USSA--the Banana Empire of the world.

Viva Cuba!!

[Mika]

105. The poster avoids most points made in response to his/her "arguments".

Ignoring the fact that the US offers Cuban migrants (including those who have failed a legal visa who get here by illegal means) a ton of special perks is a specialty of Cubaphobes. Ignoring the fact that there are millions more immigrants who come from all over the Caribbean and the Latin Americas who receive no such perks as do the Cuban immigrants is all too much to discuss.

The Castro fixation is obviously on this side of the Gulf Stream.


Too busy on "El Chefe" (Castro this Castro that) :rofl:

El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that
did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that El Chefe did this El Chefe did that

[Say_What]

114. Could it be...

that they are ignorant about Cuba? No, not possible!! They read a book by an ex-CIA agent about the island and think their *informed*.
:rofl:

[ProudDad]

110. What part of sarcasm

don't you understand?

[ProudDad]

80. VIVA Chavez, VIVA Fidel!

The best hopes for the planet...

[RangerSmith]

106. Unless of course your a journalist

who writes a story he doesn't like...

Sheesh...

Why do you excuse shit from these thugs that you won't excuse here?

[Mika]

119. You mean "journalists" like these?

Miami journalists take U.S. pay
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2499884&mesg_id=2499884


Except that when you do such things as take money from the US government in another country you are a paid agent of a foreign entity (and one must declare oneself as such). One little problem with being a paid agent of the US gov - it (the US gov) is the DECLARED enemy of the Cuban government and seeks to overthrow the Cuban gov using paid agents. Such actions are just as illegal in the US as it is in Cuba.

[Name removed]

122. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Billy Burnett]

123. They're undeclared paid agents of a foreign gov, illegal in the US too.

Why the disgusting ad hominem attack on another DUer? Just because he has another (well informed) opinion than you doesn't justify such a putrid person attack. Dr Mika has extensive background on and in Cuba. To resort to such a low smear is puerile at best.

Here's a little background info on the so called "independent journalists" on the US payroll who were busted in Cuba;


Dissidents funded by US government

Perez exhibited vouchers of monies received last year from the US by several illegal organisations in Cuba. The Centre for a Free Cuba received US$2.3 million. The Task Force for the Internal Dissidency received US$250,000. The Program for Transition in Cuba, headed by Frank Calzon, received $325,000. Support Group for the Dissidency received $1.2 million from the International Republican Institute. Cubanet, an internet magazine, received $98,000 and the American Centre for International Labor Solidarity, whose mission is to persuade foreign investors not to invest in Cuba, received $168,575.

At a series of trials of Cuban dissidents in early April it was revealed that James Cason, the current head of the USIS, had conspired with them to provide information that Washington can use in its economic, political and propaganda war against the Cuban workers' and peasants' government.

On March 18, Cuban police began charging those involved in the US-funded dissident network. They were charged under a number of different articles in the Cuban penal code and subsequently sentenced to between 15 and 27 years imprisonment.

Article 5.1 of the penal code, under which many of those arrested were charged, states that any Cuban citizen “who seeks out information to be used in the application of the Helms-Burton Act, the blockade and the economic war against our people aimed at disrupting internal order, destabilising the country and liquidating the socialist state and the independence of Cuba, shall incur a sanction of deprivation of liberty”.

Article 6.1 states that any Cuban citizen “who gathers, reproduces, disseminates subversive material from the government of the United States of America, its agencies, representative bodies, officials or any foreign entity to support the objectives of the Helms-Burton Act, the blockade and the war, shall incur a sanction of deprivation of liberty”.

Others were charged under Article 91 of the penal code that states that any Cuban citizen “who executes an action in the interest of a foreign state with the purpose of harming the independence of the Cuban State or the integrity of its territory shall incur a sentence of 10 to 20 years of deprivation of liberty or death.”

The arrests of the dissidents came after an increase in tension between Washington and Havana over intensified activity by those the US government calls “independent journalists” and “human rights organisations” within Cuba.

Since September, Cason has played the most interventionist role of any previous US diplomat in Cuba. On March 10, the Cuban government delivered a note to Cason asking him to cease his provocative statements and his role organising meetings of Cuban dissidents. Two days later, Cason organised another meeting of dissidents at his residence.

The USIS has also been involved in providing up to $60,000 to the magazine El Dissidente which is sent to the USIS in diplomatic pouches and then distributed by the USIS to Cuban dissidents. Another political magazine, la Revista de Cuba, is actually printed at the USIS.

The case against the arrested dissidents was based on evidence given by a number of Cuban security service agents who had infiltrated the dissident network organised by Cason, including Odilia Collazo Valdes, who headed the Pro-Democracy Party of Cuba, and had been a Cuban security services agent since 1961. These were the key witnesses who provided evidence at the trials about the subversive role of the United States Agency for International Development (USAID).

The USAID web site introduces its Cuba section with the statement: “The overarching goal of US policy toward Cuba is to promote a peaceful transition to democracy on the island. To that end, policy is proceeding on a multi-faceted track: pressure on the regime for change through comprehensive economic sanctions; outreach to the Cuban people; the promotion and protection of human rights; multilateral efforts to press for democracy; and migration accords to promote safe, orderly and legal migration.”

In 1996, USAID awarded the first grant aimed at “promoting democratic transition” in Cuba. The grant was awarded as a result of the Cuban Democracy Act of 1992 which authorises the US government to provide assistance “through appropriate non-governmental organizations, for the support of individuals and organizations to promote nonviolent democratic change in Cuba”.

The Cuban Liberty and Solidarity Act of 1996 further elaborates the types of assistance and support the US president is authorised to provide for individuals and independent non-governmental organisations to support “democracy-building” efforts in Cuba.

At the April 9 press conference, Perez said: “The Helms-Burton Act has paragraph 109 which directs the government to distribute money for subversion in Cuba through USAID and it has paragraph 115 which favours giving the money through secret channels, the special services' channels. USAID itself says that the amount they give is the smallest part and, according to Franco, it has been $22 million since 1997.”

Perez noted some of the funds that had been provided: “To help create independent NGOs in Cuba $1,602,000; to give a voice to independent journalists $2,027,000; to plan the transition in Cuba $2,132,000; to assess the program, how it is working $335,000.”

He also showed some passes for free access to the USIS which were in

the possession of several of the convicted dissidents — Oscar Elias Biscet and Hector Palacios — who, said Perez, “have official status” at the USIS, in contrast to the numerous restrictions that have been imposed on all US diplomatic offices under new security regulations after the September 2001 terrorist attacks in New York and Washington.

He insisted that “abundant proof” from experts and witnesses had been presented at the dissidents' trials. “For example, experts from the Central Bank of Cuba testified how the money flowed from the US government and agencies to their agents in Cuba. The routing of dirty money and how it had arrived had been determined: from the US government-front agencies, NGOs, groups and institutions in the US to Cuba, in the form of contraband, under the cover of family remittances, all known to the smallest detail. This is public money from the USAID, we are not talking here about money for special services, the money that the Interest Section gives directly (to their agents) and all that."

It all shows, Perez said, that the US government “plays the main role in creating these groups, in directing, financing, stimulating and protecting these mercenary groups”. He said that while Washington's “intent is to present this as an independent movement arising in Cuba, the so-called civil society, while ignoring the more than 2000 NGOs and Cuban associations which include those from kitchen chefs to feminist organisations, environmental groups, research centres, youth groups, students, and the most diverse areas of social and economic activity in the country, truly insulting all these organisations and their dozens, hundreds of thousands and, in some cases, millions of members”.

[Mika]

124. Bush policy: Agitate and attack.

That is how the W* admin on working on all fronts.

In this case -

Agitate: pay so called journalists to fabricate stories for foreign online news rags - which, as undeclared paid foreign agents, is illegal in Cuba just as it is in the US.

Attack: accuse the Cuban government of restricting the rights of "independent" journalists. (Plus, it is now revealed in the Miami Herald that the attacks against Cuba are being performed by "journalists" IN THE US who are being paid by the US government for their fabrications attacking Cuba.)


You are supporting Bushco policy by attacking Cuba's legal arrests of foreign paid agents - paid by the declared enemy of the Cuba government (the US gov) that seeks to overthrow the system of government in Cuba.

[Virginia Dare]

91. Oh well, I guess they can put away the champagne...

and stop dancing in the streets in Miami. I'm so glad the MSM wasted hours of time bringing us footage of that. Maybe they can save themselves some money and just rerun it when he really dies. :eyes: