U.S. to test guns on lakes

[tuvor]

'The world's longest undefended border no longer exists,' says Sarnia Mayor Mike Bradley.

By CHIP MARTIN, FREE PRESS POLITICS REPORTER

Now that it has armed its boats with machine guns, the U.S. Coast Guard wants to test-fire them on the Great Lakes.

While the Coast Guard prefers to call the 34 test-fire areas "safety zones," a spokesperson concedes they're designed to provide "operational readiness" for national security, defence and maritime law enforcement. He also conceded there's no plan to alert Canadian boaters or harbourmasters to the tests.

One of the test-firing areas is barely 20 kilometres north of Sarnia and the move has so upset Sarnia Mayor Mike Bradley, he's appealing to Prime Minister Stephen Harper to stop it.

"The world's longest undefended border no longer exists," Bradley said, adding he's "stunned" at the development that follows an agreement to allow arming Coast Guard cutters.

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2006/09/02/1795468-sun.html

[laylah]

1. I call

BULLSHIT! What the hell will these assholes think of next, war games in the Rockies? :mad:

Jenn

[gmtmaster]

7. Well..

Since you are most likely against Americans being able to defend themselves, dont you think that our military should be able to at least practice so they can protect you in case of emergency?

I really dont think you will see an environmental impact..If that is your concern.

[newyawker99]

8. Hi gmtmaster!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Richard Steele]

12. That sounds like a Limbaugh-based notion of "what we're against".

QUOTE:
"Since you are most likely against Americans being able to defend themselves"...
Why do you think such a SILLY idea is 'likely'?
Where did you get that idea?

You obviously have some MISTAKEN ideas about what WE are against.
I hope you'll stick around and educate yourself.

[OKthatsIT]

15. POSSE COMITATUS is being dismantled...WHY IS THAT?

AND...while you're at it...why don't you explain why the US CONSTITUTION is being dismantled.

[laylah]

19. I have to say

that your response was pretty lame and inflammatory at best. Welcome...stay awhile, you might learn a thing or ten.

Jenn

[hogwyld]

20. What are they going to protect us against?

The dreaded terrorist fish?

[Poll_Blind]

2. And I'm sure the Coast Guard, when firing, is firing at the water,...

...cheerfully introducing lead into the ecosystem. And as my ma used to say "You can never have enough lead in an ecosystem!". What bullshit. I really can't see what the Canadians can do about this, though. However, citizens in the area who are concerned about preserving the lakes shoud get on the Coast Guard's asses to fire at targets on land, on the U.S. side. That would also provide appropriate symbolism, methinks.

  If they need bobbing targets I'm sure they could enlist some freepers to hold the targets (on appropriately-long posts, of course). They needent be instructed to wave them around: Once the firing starts I'm sure their movement of the targets will appropriately simualte a very rough sea.

PB

[jwirr]

22. Depleted Uranium?

[jody]

3. So what?It's not effective to train crews with boat guns in the desert. nt

[filer]

4. Since most boaters don't venture too far from the shoreline,

and they'll be shooting on the American side of the lakes, it's more likely the Coast Guard will accidentally kill Americans than accidentally kill Canadians. So what's the problem? Do I really need the sarcasm bar?

[heliarc]

13. well, I hope they're not equipped with Depleted Uranium bullets. n/t

[crikkett]

5. That + more stringent border searches = hostilities with Canada?

Is Canada getting ready to legalize pot or is all this because of the newly-melting arctic passage that will be such a huge boom to Canada in the next decade or so?

[madrchsod]

6. top secret photos showing the terrorist fleet

waiting to attack the shores around the great lakes..

[CHIMO]

9. Alarm over using lake as firing range

Environmentalists are concerned because the Coast Guard will be using lead-based ammunition. They say the lead could threaten many species of fish including the lake trout — one of the region's most popular sport fish — because it kills off bottom-dwelling organisms that the lake trout like to eat.

"Lead is on the International Joint Commission's list of 11 chemicals for virtual elimination," said Miriam Diamond, a University of Toronto professor studying water pollution. "It's immediately toxic to fish, algae and plankton."

"We've had to reduce the use of birdshot on the lake," he said. "Lead brings on disease and other problems when the ducks ingest it."

The Coast Guard says it has done an environmental assessment with the help of two independent research companies. But according to the Michigan Environmental Council, that report isn't publicly available.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1157147419596

[krispos42]

10. This is so overblown

Of course the Coasties should have machine guns on their patrol boats, either a .30 or a .50. And they should practice with them on a regular basis.

The amount of lead introduced into the Lakes will be undetectable. I bet far more lead is lost in fishing sinkers than in machine-gun fire bullets.

And Lake Superior is 37,000 square miles of water, bigger than the State of Maine. I'm pretty sure that the radar on the patrol ships can be used to make sure nobody is within the 4-mile absolute maximum range of a .50.

If there is a true lead concern, the the Coasties can get some total-metal-jackets made. Normal military bullets are lead encased in copper, but the base is left exposed, do the the manufacturing process. These are called 'full metal jackets'. However, do to concerns about lead, manufacturers also make 'green' bullets that are either lead-free or totally enclosed in copper.

[heliarc]

14. Uh, I'm more concerned about Depleted Uranium. n/t

[CHIMO]

11. Interesting

Wonder when the war ships will be appearing?

U.S. puts machine-guns on Great Lakes coast guard vessels
Last Updated Wed, 15 Mar 2006 16:00:53 EST
CBC News

For the first time since 1817, U.S. Coast Guard vessels on the Great Lakes are being outfitted with weapons – machine-guns capable of firing 600 bullets a minute. Until now, coast guard officers have been armed with handguns and rifles, but the vessels themselves haven't been equipped with weapons.

The War of 1812 saw violent battles on Lake Erie and Lake Huron between U.S. troops and British forces, which were largely composed of militias from Britain's colonies in what is now Canada. After the war, the United States and Britain – and later Canada – agreed to demilitarize the Great Lakes waters.

The Rush-Bagot Treaty of 1817 allowed each country to station four vessels, each equipped with an 18-pound cannon, to safeguard the Great Lakes.

The antiquated treaty has recently been reinterpreted because of U.S. concerns about customs violations, human smuggling and international terrorism.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/03/15/coastguard-060315.html

The article goes on to say that there is no intention at this time to arm them with .50 calibre machine guns.

[baldguy]

16. Why? Is Canada now to be considered a threat?

The northern frontier WAS the longest undefended border on the planet, because of the long-time friendship & alliance between the US and Canada.

What's changed?

[struggle4progress]

17. Pointless military spending: designed to bankrupt the US treasury ..

.. and transfer $$$ to the Corporate Overlords.

[hogwyld]

18. Don't you all know...

This isn't to keep the Canadians out, it's to keep us in after the pukes steal another election! No more of this "I'm going to Canada" stuff will be tolerated. Now report to your detention center. Welcome to the American penitentiary!

[leftchick]

21. I agree with Mr. Bradley, this is insane!

<snip>

Bradley complained he only recently learned about the plan.

"We treasure the Great Lakes as a safe zone, not as a free-fire zone," he said. "This is simply unacceptable. You can see the potential for tragedy. I find it incomprehensible this would even be considered."

He said he takes no comfort in the fact the zones would be on the American side of the lakes since Canadian and American boaters are constantly in each other's water.

"When did the Harper government know about this and was this part of the deal when they let the Americans re-arm the Great Lakes? That is the key question," he said.