Fears of 'extreme' TB strain

[Gman]

New drug-resistant infection is 'nightmare' say health experts

Robin McKie, science editor
Sunday September 3, 2006
The Observer

Health experts are to hold an emergency meeting in Johannesburg this week, following the discovery of a deadly new strain of tuberculosis.

The strain - known as extreme drug-resistant TB - has horrified World Health Organisation doctors. In one outbreak in South Africa, 52 of 53 patients died within weeks of becoming infected.

'This new strain leaves us facing a nightmare,' said Paul Nunn, coordinator of the WHO's drug-resistance unit. 'It is resistant to nearly every drug in our arsenal. We are now on the threshold of the appearance of a strain of TB that is resistant to every medicine known to science.'

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,1863850,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=12

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The "Intelligent Designer" has been hard at work these last 10 years or so.

[shanti]

1. this bad news....

i know of someone being treated for TB in northern california. this was the main cause of death not too long ago. :scared:

[izzie]

8. Makes one think of the old TB hospitals they had every place,

It is sort of scary just reading about them. If I recall right the state put people in them until two things happened. You got well or died. It was like a real sub-culture. Having been born in the 30's I can recall people talking about people in them. I would say they were run into the early 50's or late 40's any how. Now drugs take care of what they knew about .

[hedgehog]

24. How ironic that as Richard Feynman was working on the first atomic

bomb, his wife was dying from tuberculosis in a sanitarium.

[acmavm]

25. My Mom was committed to a TB sanitorium in Kearney, Nebraska

for a year and a half in the 60s.

That's the way things were done back then.

[InkAddict]

30. TB is not a forgotten disease for many Americans

It shaped their family history and may still have an impact on the Boomers generation. My spouse's grandparents died from TB in the 40s. On their death, his parents married. During WWII, while Dad served, Mom shared their apartment with a co-worker. Without family support, or perhaps just by choice and a lack of any sense of necessity to do otherwise, this lady continued to live in my husband's family's home for the next 50 years where she was afforded all the benefits and responsibilites of her "adopted family." At some point during the early/mid 50s she tested positive for TB and admitted to a sanitarium, quarantined, and treated for months. It was never conclusively proved that she actually had TB though diagnostic tests available in the 50s did reveal a lung "lesion" that eventually cleared. During WWII and thereafter this individual worked at a "creamery," essentially a dairy warehouse where she manually candled and packed eggs for the marketplace, a company owned by Beatrice Foods, now known as being one of the socially irresponsible corporations of our times. BTW, she was also a heavy smoker.

[acmavm]

32. Here is a GREAT site to get info on any disease or ailment....

http://medlineplus.gov/

[izzie]

37. Well we all grew up with that and polio. We thought about them

We also on the whole did not have free use of a doctor unless you had some money, as my family did. My father said he had to make money as my mother was so ill. Doctors did go to people for free, at times, and churches were known to help but even in a mid-income town where I grew up most kids did not see eye, teeth or just regular doctors as a general thing. People for get that. Schools did a lot as they came in from the state and told people what to do if they were ill or needed glasses etc.

[yorkiemommie1]

41. my mom was in one too

late 30s. she recovered, had 4 kids, is still alive.

[alfredo]

31. My uncle died in Waverly Hills Sanitorium outside of

Louisville. They were going to cut out one lung and he refused. He said he'd rather die than being cut on. When things turned worse he made us bring him a pack of Camels. He figured he was a goner so why do without?

[izzie]

36. I have read about that hospital and in fact some place on

this PC is a site with many many pictures. I was trying to find one in NH and came on to that site and it was so interesting and yet scary in a way. In NS, Can. I once stooped at a home that was opened to the public where a man had set up the home to save his daughter. He did but it shows it was just every place. As a kid in the 30's and 40's they used to come around and test us in school. In Maine. I would always be one of them they took off some place to the x-ray hospitals for more study. I never had TB but for some reason used to test wrong.

[alfredo]

42. They used to test us too. Our school was part of the testing for

the Salk vaccine. I got poked and prodded over and over again for that study. It was for a very good cause, but to us kids it was horrible.

I remember visiting the sanitorium at Waverly Hills. I wasn't allowed to go inside so I was left by myself to wander the grounds. I used to get cardboard and use it as a sled. Even in the summer it worked because the hill was steep enough and the grass was slick. I wish I would have gone further down the hill. I would have found the tunnel they used to haul out the bodies. They did it that way to hide the grim reality from the patients. The hearse wasn't visible to the hospital.

[Pathwalker]

33. My mother spent the last years of her life in a TB

sanitarium, in Arizona in the 50's. She died in surgery having her lung removed, and gave the disease to both my Father and Brother. My other brother and I tested positive for exposure by age five, and were followed by the Arizona State Health Department for our entire childhood. We were required to endure day long medical testing every six months, and they came armed with a court order after our Grandmother let us skip one - once, because we were hysterical about those tests.

When I moved to Michigan at age 18, the Michigan Dept. of Health showed up on my doorstep, and ordered me to take a medicine for a year - in order to be ALLOWED to remain in Michigan.
I grew up in that sub-culture - it was beyond scary. It scarred me.

[izzie]

38. I know a lady doing state treatment in Maine now.

It seems to be iffy if she has TB but they are making her do thing just to be sure. From what I have read it is harder to get rid of it now than ever,

[silverweb]

2. No surprise.

"Super bugs" have been predicted for years now and our over use of antibiotics and antimicrobials is a large part of the cause.

As any doctor or scientifically aware person knows, a pathological organism must be completely eradicated with a sufficiently potent and sustained course of treatment; otherwise, it will just mutate to become more resistant. Traces of our treatment drugs are now in the food supply and ground water, just sufficent to breed resistant pathogens.

So here we are.

Keep washing your dishes and hands with trace amounts of antimicrobials, folks, and be sure to take an antibiotic pill or two whenever you feel a little sick.

Let's see just how fast we can get MRSA, VRE, MDR TB, and other pathogens even more resistant to all known treatment agents!

[Delphinus]

18. I raised this concern at a

pandemic flu preparation meeting I recently attended. I asked the two very qualified medical professionals leading the meeting if, since the flu is a virus, would the anti-bacterials they suggested using would be of any help. The answer was no.

I've not used anti-bacterial soap (for my body or my dishes) and don't plan to start. It's like what I read with aspirin and the 1918 Spanish flu - if people had not taken the aspirin, which took the fever down and stopped people's own immune system from stepping in - they might have lived.

[silverweb]

34. Exactly.

Antibacterials are completely ineffective against viruses and it's long been proven that any plain old surfactant with water is adequate to remove 99+% of contaminants from hands, dishes, surfaces, etc.

I've been using plain white vinegar with a tiny squirt of 7th Generation dish detergent as a surfactant to clean just about everything, including fruits and vegetables, for quite some time now. My daughter was annoyed by the vinegar smell at first, but quickly realized that it fades within minutes and rinses easily.

Antibacterials in ordinary cleaning products should be banned, but that's probably too much to hope for in our corporate-dominated, demand-creating, profit-seeking society.

Your information regarding aspirin and the flu is correct, also. Fever is the body's natural response to infection and is actually beneficial unless it gets dangerously high. Aggressive hydration and rest are the best possible treatment for the flu, but they don't help people "feel better" clinically -- so we naturally seek symptomatic treatments that actually do nothing to make us better and may actually prolong or worsen the root illness.

The problems above could all be solved with massive education efforts. But that would affect corporate profits, so education be damned. Our ignorance will destroy us.

[Kutjara]

3. Sadly inevitable.

As long as doctors around the world hand out antibiotics like Halloween candy (even for viral infections); as long as patients demand antibiotics for every sniffle; as long as we use cleaning products that kill "99% of household germs" (leaving 1% alive that are now resistant to the stuff used to kill their brethren, and free to reproduce exponentially); as long as companies manufacture "antibacterial" household products, surfaces, doorknobs and steering-wheels, we will continue to create the perfect environment for the rapid evolution of 'superbugs.'

Our environment is smarter than we are; and it doesn't like us.

[Donnachaidh]

4. isn't cipro one of those drugs we should be stockpiling?

Talk about giving out antibiotics like candy --

6 months ago I went to a doctor about a sinus infection. Doc starts to write up a prescription, stops and gets me some samples. It was for CIPRO.

Isn't this the anthrax drug?

I asked him why he was prescribing this for a sinus infection when I've had other antibiotics work fine. Evidently the drug companies want them to push THIS as well. One less drug to work against superbugs or terrorist attacks.

[silverweb]

5. Cipro (ciprofloxacin) is a good general antibiotic.

It's one of the drugs anthrax is currently sensitive to, as well as any number of other common bacteria.

For now.

[Kutjara]

6. Yes it is.

But, of course, the reality is that it's all about cash. Having a bunch of drugs sitting around, getting stale, while waiting for an Anthrax or Smallpox attack isn't making anyone any money. So, in the meantime, the drug companies are pushing these same drugs as treatments for everyday illnesses. The result will be, as you point out, that when the real thing happens, these drugs will be about as useful as a cotton-candy enema.

[Richard D]

23. 100 Cipro tablets . . .

. . .250 mg, cost around 300.00 dollars (or more) in the US and Canada. I got 30 Cipro tablets in Peru for under 10.00.

[iamjoy]

45. CIPRO Is Broad Spectrum

whereas some antibiotics seem to work better for some types of infections and different antibiotics for other infections, CIPRO is a broad spectrum a/b that works on a variety of bacterial infections.

Of course doctors overprescribe, not just cos the drug companies push it but because they are covering their butts and want to feel useful to patients.

When I was having chemotherapy, they thought I had a UTI and wanted to give me levaquin. I fought them on it because I knew I didn't have a UTI. They were being overly cautious, not a bad thing when some one's immunity is compromised. But I was more worried about antibiotic resistance.

[ixion]

11. Our environment is smarter than we are; and it doesn't like us.

Yep, you said it. Well put. :applause:

[BadgerKid]

14. It's evolution in action n/t

[ShortnFiery]

20. To be specific, it's "Natural Selection" in action. eom

[lumpy]

26. My first thought

Evolution is alive and well.

[Jackpine Radical]

16. Cattle are routinely fed antibiotics as part of a "prophylactic" program.

You get antibiotics in your milk & hamburger.

[silverweb]

35. Yup.

And in poultry, farmed fish, etc. I think probably only the strictest vegans may manage to avoid antibiotics in their food -- athough even that's in question now that the overflow is being found in ground water supplies.

[Jackpine Radical]

43. Well, we buy & eat free-range beef, chicken & turkey,

all fed antibiotic-free diets.

[silverweb]

44. Yes, sorry.

I forgot to include people who go out of their way to buy organic, free-range meats and poultry.

:blush:

[Jackpine Radical]

50. I also hunt.

[Magical]

7. Read Dr. Len Horowitz's Books

Then you'll understand.
That is all.

[dipsydoodle]

9. If you were to recommend

one in particular then which would it be ?

[Magical]

10. I've only read...

Aids, Ebola, and Emerging Viruses
Death in the Air...Recommend this one.

Here's his website...
It's got some free articles also.
http://www.tetrahedron.org/articles/articles.html

Suffice it to say...
Prepare yourself for some very uncomfortable truths.

[dipsydoodle]

13. Having already rummaged through Amazon

I'd concluded that may well be the one I'd go for. Thanks for confirming my choice. :)

I don't think ebola is man made. They've already traced the food chain through the monkeys to the fruit bats they eat and are currently trying to figure how/where the bats pick up the virus. Probably not much doubt it's from forests which should never have been disturbed. The Black Death of the 14th century is now considered by some to have been an ebola type virus and not bubonic plague.

[Magical]

29. Try your library

I got mine thru King County Wa. Library.
As to 'they' who has traced any virus to any source, I would only say, read the books, reserve judgment, until you've seen the documented facts. 'They' may not be who you think 'they' are.

[nodehopper]

48. I particluarly enjoyed his pro-life wanking

Where he waxes philosophic (rather than medical) about abortion.

"Moreover, the larger question is, "Given that new life appears to begin at the moment of fertilization/conception, at minimum on the cellular level, and at maximum spiritually, does abortion--destroying a potentially magnificent versus troubled life in the hope that it may benefit the parent(s) or society as a whole--offer a positive return on the choice/investment?

Is there so little hope for us that, rather than focusing our vast wealth on saving and enriching lives for everyone's benefit, we continuously choose to use our resources to destroy things?"

Yeah, I like my scientists/doctors separate from philosophers spouting pro-life rhetoric as if it is a widely accepted absolute, and mixing their medical conclusions with spiritual conjectures, seemingly without a capacity to clearly differentiate between the two.

[nodehopper]

49. also, this is the dude who thinks vaccines interfere with god's plan, yes?

[Magical]

51. What ?

So, if someone holds a belief you don't agree with, you discount everything they have to say ?
By that measure you would listen to no one.

I personally don't care about his view on the sanctity of life. I would never abort a child, but I also leave that to others to make their own personal choice. They are the ones that have to live with the result either way.

I read/view many sources and draw my own conclusions.
I'd expect that of anyone I recommend a book to. Just one more viewpoint.
Have you read his books ?

Have you studied the data on incidence of childhood disease as related to the introduction of vaccines?
Have you looked into the source of these 'emerging viruses' as related to the experimentation in biowarfare labs?

I have, and I'm convinced there are many patterns that go well beyond 'coincidence'.
Either you'll get informed or not. Your choice.

[nodehopper]

55. when I hear a scientist invoke god and

morality that he postulates as objective one as informing his science, that makes me want to go be informed by some other scientist who uses, you know, the scientific method.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fed-up]

15. TB was one of the ailments my brother came back from GWI with, let's hope

that this one doesn't spread to the ME...

[Changenow]

17. I'm sorry,

How is he now?

[fed-up]

19. Mostly okay, the meds took care of the TB-did you know that a person can

be jailed and forced to take their treatment if they don't comply?

[hedgehog]

28. These laws were researched when AIDS first became a concern.

Eventually, it was decided that AIDS was a different situation since it isn't transmitted by casual contact. Well financed Health Departments monitor TB cases carefully. In NYC, if a patient is identified as non-compliant (I.E. not likely to take the drugs in proper doses or finish the course of antibiotics) a nurse will actually be sent around daily to administer the proper dose.

[Changenow]

46. TB asylums.

My grandparents would talk about them when we were little. I remember driving by an old building that looked like a cross between a castle and a prison with a large lawn and being told that’s what it used to be. I don’t remember where it was.

[Olney Blue]

21. It was a matter of time. This is frightening.

[mike_c]

22. not unexpected, but very bad nonetheless....

TB is a major killer. It has been more-or-less undercontrol in the U.S. for most the last century, but when it comes back it will be with a vengence.

[OzarkDem]

27. Bush is cutting funds for research

makes it hard to respond to things like this.

[krispos42]

40. of course. Entirely predictable.

Just like he cut funding for research into combat-related brain injuries and treatments.

Bush is entirely too selective on what he rings the "fiscal responsibility" bell on.

[krispos42]

39. Lies! All Liberal Lies!

This is all a plot to teach so-called "evolution" to our innocent children, with the ultimate purpose of denying belief in the Lord Our God and His Only Son!

There is no evolution! God made everything pefectly! To imply otherwise will send your soul to the eternal fires of Hell! And it is the duty of all Christians to rise up, join the GOP, and fight this evil lie perpetuated by Satin Himself! This can only be a man-made virus that the Darwinists are putting out to defeat the Holy Scriptures in the schools!

This should be unnecessary, but :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

<edit>

Ya know, I thought I was making statements just so totally outrageous that nobody could mistake them anybody but a hardcore rightwing nut. Then I looked at it a few minutes later and could see a bunch of prominate Republicans saything this at a campaign rally. Most notabably Kathleen Harris, George Allen, that crazy Ted Stevens, and Jerry Falwell. It sent a shiver down my spine! VOTE IN NOVEMBER!

[PittPoliSci]

47. everybody panic!

[Joe Bacon]

52. It's already broken out in Los Angeles' Skid Row

That's why I stopped going to the homeless missions there, it has struck a number of the homeless because they will not follow the drug protocol!

[SoyCat]

54. I'm worried that it will hit the NOLA area due to it being a major port

city. The public health system is in tatters and won't be able to handle it.

[izzie]

53. College classes for years said this would happen.

When drugs were found world wide in public waters, people who study such things said the drugs were not being used right and the illness would become stronger.All sorts of illnesses have learned how to live through the drugs.