CNN: San Diego Chargers' Steve Foley shot by off-duty policeman

[Charlie Brown]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/09/03/nfl.shooting/index.html

(CNN) -- The San Diego Chargers' Steve Foley was shot by an off-duty police officer early Sunday, a San Diego Sheriff's spokesman said.

The shooting came days after the linebacker had been cleared on charges stemming from a scuffle with police in April.

The 30-year-old, nine-year NFL veteran was taken to San Diego's Sharp Memorial Hospital.

Foley was shot at about 3:30 a.m. (6:30 a.m. ET) on a street in the upscale neighborhood where he lived.

[Miss Chybil]

1. One more day... one more reason to ask...

What country is this, again?

[struggle4progress]

2. "The officer involved .. was from the Coronado Police Department ..

.. about 20 miles from .. the shooting, which took place in .. Poway, San Diego Sheriff's Lt. Scott Rossall said. It was not immediately clear why the Coronado officer was in Poway or why, while off duty, the officer would stop Foley's vehicle, Rossall said .."

[tomhayes]

5. I lived in Coronado

Coronado is a long way from Poway. Coronado is a small pennisula on the coast of San Diego and Poway is very much inland.

And it's more like 30 miles by freeway. This sounds fishy.

Here's a link to the Google Maps: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&saddr=coronado,+ca&daddr=poway,+ca&ie=UTF8&z=12&om=1

BTW, Coronado has more Police per capita than anywhere else in the U.S. As a teenager we'd all get tickets for riding our bikes in illegal ways (no lights at night, kid on handlebar, riding on sidewalk, etc) and there would be three cop cars each time. They have a lot of police.

[jus_the_facts]

3. Damn...he played college football here at Northeast La. University....

....now known as the University of La. at Monroe....he's a great linebacker/defensive end....hope he's okay and wasn't doin' anything wrong....this article is so vague and bizarre. :(

[TroglodyteScholar]

16. I swear, Monroe is the center of the universe...

...Would you mind shipping me some Johnny's Pizza overnight?

/nostalgia

[jus_the_facts]

23. LOL...here's his website....

:9 *drool*

http://www.johnnys-pizza.com/menu.htm

:hi:

[TroglodyteScholar]

24. Mmmmm....sweeep the kitchen....

[jus_the_facts]

36. S'the absolute BEST pizza there is....

...every time relatives and friends come to visit after bein' away...they've gotta go to Johnny's...one friend flew a few...of Johnny's take & bake back to her husband in Florida in an ice chest last year...if you write to see about havin' some shipped from the website..send it to the main location on DeSiard Street. :D

Glad you've got fond memories o'this place...it is somewhat of an anomaly!! ;-)

[TroglodyteScholar]

51. I was a kid when I lived there...

...so I wasn't aware of all the social woes of the area. Looking back, I can tell the place was kind of stuck in the 50's.

But that aside...it seems anywhere I go, I run into someone from Monroe. I currently work with one person from Monroe and one from West Monroe. It's amazing how omnipresent the place is.

[Ferretherder]

60. I live in West Monroe, now. Used to work for Johnny when...

...all he had was the main joint on DeSiard St., in front of the college; one on Warren Dr., I believe, in West Monroe; and one on the south side of Monroe. I really believe his stuff was better in the old days, but I may be a little prejudiced by 'faulty memory'.

[jus_the_facts]

63. Everything was better in the old days...but his pizza holds up....

....the ingredients and how they're produced is what's different..but a sweep to ME tastes the very same as it did when I was little...one reason I only support Johnny's instead of any of the chain pizza places here...which only consists of Domino's and Pizza Hut now...he ran all the others who tried to settle here out o'business over the years! :hi: Good to see you back 'round here...s'been a while!! :)

[Ferretherder]

71. Thanks for the welcome.

I'm always around - just lurk more than post, these days.

[jus_the_facts]

62. That's true..I've always marveled at the people who move here and stay....

...from all over the place and call it home...behooved me when I was younger...I think there's somethin' in the water as we produce some o'the finest sports players in the country down here...from football to golf...there's a Neville HS grad. in third place against Tiger today!! :crazy: :D

:hi:

[leesa]

4. Poway. My hometown. Real redneck, Bush supportin' berg

Not a lot of brain power, but lots of loudmouths with guns. Who knows what this was about though. Sounds like somebody got their nose out of joint about the decision.

[Baka Gaijin]

8. Steve Foley

doesn't look like your typical redneck :sarcasm:

[TheWatcher]

46. Nice disabled Profile

Doesn't look like your typical DU'er.

Enjoy your stay. It will probably be quite brief.

[LordLovesAWorkingMan]

40. You may be from Poway

but I LIVE in Poway, and you are flat-out wrong. There are liberals all over Poway, even in North Poway.

[MADem]

6. Shot multiple times; driving erratically

http://www.deadspin.com/sports/san-diego-chargers/chargers-lb-steve-foley-shot-multiple-times-198344.php


It happened around 3:30 Sunday
morning..when an off duty Coronado police officer started following a man who was driving erratically. Police say the driver is Chargers linebacker Steve Foley.
The officer identified himself several times as a police officer, but Foley would not pull over. Foley then drove to his own neighborhood in Poway where he got out of the car and his girlfriend got behind the wheel. Police say Foley came at the officer who fired a warning shot. The woman then drove the car at the officer. The officer fired into the car, then shot Foley. But police say Foley kept coming, and the off duty officer shot him several more times.

Foley underwent surgery at Sharp Hospital, and his condition is unkown at this time, though the wounds aren't thought to be life-threatening. He took shots in the hand, stomach, and leg.

EDIT TO INCLUDE VIDEO LINK http://www.kusi.com/home/3815221.html

[Kagemusha]

9. Identified himself while in an unmarked motor vehicle?... while driving?

I'd like to know how that goes, and how an off duty cop manages not to look like a carjacker in disguise. Seriously.

[MADem]

10. I dunno, I wasn't there. NT

[rocktivity]

29. Good question--HOW did he identify himself as an officer?

Since he was off-duty, was he in an official unmarked car, or his personal vehicle? I think the case will hinge on that--and on why the officer didn't call for backup. Surely Foley would have stopped for a marked car or two, and if not, the police would have him dead to rights.

:headbang:
rocknation

[MikeyJones]

84. Damn good point -- how could he have known this guy wan't a fraud?

There's a rapist running around Louisiana who uses fake siren lights to make himself look like a cop. He then pulls women over and rapes them -- the fucking sicko. How could he not have known that a cop 30 miles outside his jurisdiction in an unmarked car wasn't some psycho-fan trying to kill him? I honestly think and hope this "cop" is going to get brought up on attempted murder charges. You CANNOT enforce the law outside of your jurisdiction.

"Citizen's arrest" is a nice 1950s hillbilly Gomer Pile word that nowadays in the 21st century means "impersonating a police officer" and that's a felony.

[Scurrilous]

7. Steve Foley:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/player?categoryId=69276

[nosmokes]

11. this is a load

an off duty coronado cop in poway making a traffic stop? as someone else said it's more like a 30 mile trip, and there ain't no direct route between the two towns. San diego area cops are notorious for being under paid and ill-trained which often leads to shooting incidents. because the pay is low, a lot of the cops are rookies and inexperienced, fairly fresh out of the military and still full of the military mindset. i don't know if that's the case here, but it is often a factor.

[tomhayes]

13. Actually, the off duty offier's account makes sense

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/chargers/20060903-1358-bn03foleyshot.html

About 3:30 a.m., the off-duty officer started following a suspected drunk driver in the area of northbound Highway 163 and Highway 52, Brugos said. The vehicle was described as weaving and its speed ranged from 30 to 90 mph and nearly hit several vehicles, he said.

Edit

Foley then got back into his car and the off-duty officer followed him to a cul-de-sac in Poway, where Foley lives.

Foley got out of the car and started walking toward the officer, while his female passenger drove the car alongside him, Brugos said. The officer identified himself again and then fired a warning shot into the bushes, Brugos said. Brugos said the female then revved the engine and drove directly at the officer, by then out of his car; the officer fired two shots at Foley's vehicle. The officer was not hit by the car.

Foley reached into his pants with his right hand as he approached the officer and the officer fired at the suspect. Foley acknowledged he'd been shot, Brugos said, but continued to move toward the officer, who fired again. Foley then fell to the ground.

-----
1)If an off duty cop saw a car weaving that badly they'd surely follow it.

2)If someone looking like a private citizen tried to pull me over I'd be suspiscous.

So it sounds like alcohol may have played a part in this too. Sober, *I* would have called 911 and told them someone was following me pretending to be a cop. (I assume that Steve Foley has a cellphone.)(also, since Foley was brought to the hospital with a gunshot wound they'll be able to see what kind of alcohol level he had.)

Asw for training, I agree about San Diego Cops, but Coronado is an entirely seperate , and musch better funded police force. They have great training, but they are bigger dicks.

[nosmokes]

19. *this* cop ain't well trained

warning shots are a thing of the past. the only time a peace officer should discharge his firearm is to kill or disable a suspect when his life or someone else's life is at immediate risk. i sat on the county human right's commisssion law enforcement liason panel for a california county (not san diego) and two different police chiefs and the sheriff were adamant about that. this dude went well over thge line of accepted procedure, according to his own account. assuming of course the the report is in any way accurate.

[sofa king]

26. I wouldn't trust that cop at all.

If an off duty cop shoots someone you can bet he'll offer a compelling explanation whether there was one or not. The officer's story is the classic "over the line" excuse they offer whenever they want to pull someone over by profile, completely unverifiable and guaranteed to fall in the cop's direction in court because of his status. I've had it done to me, and it happens to African-American men so often that it's earned it's own disparaging term: DWB, driving while black.

As a guy who had only just settled his differences with the police, I'd be even more suspicious of the cops than of ordinary citizens, especially off-duty ones who might be looking to settle a score. With the cops pissed off at me, drunk or sober, I wouldn't call them for anything, and I wouldn't stop for anything, either--that was the football player's mistake, stopping at all.

That off-duty cop also had a duty to call the police in that jurisdiction, probably well before he initiated the chase and certainly before he got out of the car and drew his weapon, and we can presume he too had a cell phone or even a direct communications link with the police.

[zanne]

52. How do we know the officer wasn't impaired?

Driving around at that hour, not calling for backup and firing "several" shots? Sounds like he was either drunk or out of control.

[MikeyJones]

85. It doesn't matter, when going into another police jurisdiction following..

a suspect the cop in question MUST notify the police departments of the areas in question for assistance and most definitely the sheriff's department as they have jurisdiction all over the county. This whole thing stinks to high heaven and sounds like this cop is going to prison for 10 years for attempted murder.

[HuffleClaw]

12. methinks the local gestapo is gonna end up REALLY regretting this

should be interesting to find out who was behind this stalking/hit.

[CBGLuthier]

14. Hyperbole is a word you should be familiar with.

[brentspeak]

30. You should stop snorting/smoking/injecting whatever it is you use

[hogwyld]

37. So, would a public hanging of the officer

in the center of town suffice?

[nosmokes]

61. it'd be a good start...

seriously, like 99% of other cops shooting folks, the cops will investigate and find the cop did the right thing, the DA will investigate and find the cop did the right thing, meanwhile, bottom line is foley was gunned down in front of house by a vigilante in the wee hours of the morning. and as abominable as driving drunk is, last i checked it wasn't a capital crime. in san diego the worst that's gonna happen to this outta contol pig is he'll lose his job, but more likely he'll just lose some time from work w/o pay, if he gets anything that harsh.

[NOLADEM]

15. Off Duty Cops Should NEVER pull someone over

I would NEVER stop for an unmarked car. The instructions in Louisiana are if you are being stopped by an unmarked car, put your hazards on and proceed at the speed limit to the nearest population point, and then stop, so there are witnesses.

You never know who got a badge out of a box of cracker jacks and wants to try it out.

This pig should have called for backup and waited for a marked unit to perform the stop. No need to provoke an incident.

However, most pigs are just frustrated nerds from high school who need validation from a fake penis(gun), and all have wet dreams about the day they get to actually pull the trigger at one of the bad guys and say their Dirty Harry line they have been saying in their heads for years.

Deadly force is SO RARELY justified.

I am sad for this man. Going pro from UL Monroe is no easy task. They are the sixth worst team in Louisiana (not including 5A high school ball).

[AX10]

17. I must agree. Police are also known as "peace officers". They are...

not a paramilitary force. They should not be undercover and they should have no authority while off-duty. Let the FBI take care of the undercover work. They are much better suited for that field of work.

[badgervan]

20. 3 A.M.?

What was an off-duty cop doing at 3 in the morning cruising 30 miles away from his normal beat? Coronado = retired military and lots, and I do mean lots, of money. Nice beach, though ( I was stationed on the amphib base many years ago, the year they opened the bridge. ).

[MikeyJones]

86. Excellent fucking point

you say:"I would NEVER stop for an unmarked car. The instructions in Louisiana are if you are being stopped by an unmarked car, put your hazards on and proceed at the speed limit to the nearest population point, and then stop, so there are witnesses.

You never know who got a badge out of a box of cracker jacks and wants to try it out.

This pig should have called for backup and waited for a marked unit to perform the stop. No need to provoke an incident.

However, most pigs are just frustrated nerds from high school who need validation from a fake penis(gun), and all have wet dreams about the day they get to actually pull the trigger at one of the bad guys and say their Dirty Harry line they have been saying in their heads for years."

I couldn't agree more. This idiot undercover cop should have called for back-up THE SECOND he crossed outside of his jurisdiction to the appropriate authorities. A sheriff's deputy would have been perfect as he/she has jurisdiction anywhere in the county. After explaining the situation the sheriff probably would have let Foley go and this crazy trigger-happy pig would have been arrested for impersonating a police officer as he obviously didn't call for back-up or notify the appropriate authorities and in doing so made himself a potential felon.

[krispos42]

18. Hmmm... cop should have called for local fuzz to intercept

He could have easily called his own dispatcher and had them relay a message to CHP or the local police to intercept. He was far out of his juristictions, which I think makes him little more than a legally-armed citizen at that point. He should have simply observed so he could be a witness in court.

Not having done that, the question of whether the officer identified himself properly remains. A 'verbal identification' does not suffice. A badge should have been flashed, and if the cop didn't have his on him, he should have stayed discrete.

I can't fault the officer for shooting a very large, strong, athletic man heading towards him with his hands in his pocket AFTER the officer demonstrated the gun was real, but the fact remains that Foley had probable cause to think the person was not an officer. And that officer, being the perpetrator of illegal activity, may not have had the legal right to defend himself.

You can't legally use lethal force to defend yourself while breaking into a house, for example. Something similar may be in effect here.

This is going to be a mess.

[rocktivity]

27. DING DING DING! Krispos, you're our grand prize winner!

I can't fault the officer for shooting a very large, strong, athletic man heading toward him with his hands in his pocket AFTER...demonstrat(ing) the gun was real, but the fact remains that Foley had probable cause to think the person was not an officer...

This officer demonstrated extraordinarily bad judgment. He should have called for backup--not only for his own safety's sake when Foley didn't stop, but in recognition of being out of his jurisdiction. If that's beyond his comprehension, he shouldn't be a cop any longer.

P.S. Foley is black--was the officer wondering what he was doing in such an upscale area?

:headbang:
rocknation

[brentspeak]

32. The article said that Foley was driving like he was drunk as a skunk

[rocktivity]

34. All the more reason to call for backup

Unless he was unable to because he didn't have a radio in his car, being off duty. Calling 911 on a cell phone would have been preferable to pulling up and claiming you're a police officer--suppose he'd responded by rolling down his window and firing a gun? And the more you chase such a driver, the more likely he his to get in an accident.

:headbang:
rocknation

[LordLovesAWorkingMan]

41. some San Diego geography for you guys

163 & 52 is at least 10 miles from most places in Poway, and maybe 20 miles from the super-rich area where a lot of pro athletes live. The 163 ends just after the 52, where it turns into I-15. There are several chances to exit I-15 and go into Poway, the last being way up I-15. The point is that there would have been PLENTY of time for this Coronado cop to call on-duty SD police, of which there would be MANY on the east side of I-15 at the time.

I loves me some cops, but this guy acted stupidly and outside of police protocol.

[me b zola]

67. And who is the witness that says so?

...The off duty cop behaving in an inappropriate and suspiscious manner is the person reporting that Foley was driving "like he was drunk as a skunk". Sorry. It's he said-he said, and the guy that you are backing sounds like the skunk.

[tomhayes]

68. I'm backing no one, others on this thread are

>It's he said-he said, and the guy that you are backing sounds like the skunk.

It may not be a he said he said jsut yet.

FIRST, we have only heard what the cop has said in one report.

We have not heard what Steve Foley is going to say.

There is alos other types of evidence that can colelcted:

1)The officer's call to police when he started to follow Foley . (The updated story says he followed Foley from 163 and 52 to Poway. That's 10 miles or so on Freeways that average 65-75 miles an hour. And it says he called for backup immediately.)

2)The statement from the woman in the car.

3)Physcial evidence like skid marks/etc *if8 the car was being driven at the officer.

4)The location of the warning shots, the locaiton of the shell, the location of the car.

5)Witnesses who lived in the cul-de-sac where the pursuit ended.

6)If Steve Foley was drunk or not. (The hospital should be able to shed some light on this.)

My point is that people are taking sides without us knowing this evidence.

If this was Rodney King, Al Sharpton or Al Gore I'd be *very very* suspicous of the officer's account. in this case *I have no idea what really happened*.

We've had bad cops in San Diego before (some have been convicted of robebry, rape and murder.)

But it sounds like an entirely plausible account of what could have happened.

Again, I do not know what happened. It's bad when a cop shoots anyone. I am not in favor of shootings.

And I am neutral on who did what in this case.

If this cop did anything wrong he should prosecuted for it. No one is above the law.

[MikeyJones]

87. Hasn't this pig ever heard of getting the license plate number down?

And then calling the county sheriff and let them handle the situation as they are the appropriate powers to have conducting such a follow/arrest? This whole thing stinks to high heaven. Methinks there is a legal case that that cop was legally little more than a hillbilly vigilante making an "impersonating a police officer" violation while making a "citizen's arrest." Or at least that's the way any sensible and pragmatic judge would look at it. The officer in question's activity is beyond unethical and reaches into being illegal. Who cares what a black man was doing in an upscale area. It's none of his fucking business -- people in America have a right to live and go where they freely choose. This is not a fascist police state where we need Mussolini's permission to take a piss.

[nolabels]

73. The officer said he was

Effing Yayhoo cop, OFF-duty cop playing Dirty Harry sounds like a winner.

They do like their guns though. We have called the county sheriff several times about some neighbors across the street having LOUD parties with Gangster Rap and Mariachi music that you could hear several blocks away. We often have called multiple times and waited for hours before the law enforcement ever shows up. A couple of Loud parties ago (after we had called several times) a gun fight had broke out between the party goers. Was like five minutes later after the gunfight 2 police helicopters with searchlights showed up. As far as I concerned the police are useless out here where we live

[krispos42]

47. Well, I wasn't going to make race an issue, but I may be a fool

But at the same time, Foley was almost certainly driving a very nice set of wheels and probably dressed expensively, as well. Plus, the guy's a football player; there's a decent chance the cop recognized him.

The basic fact is that the cop pushed it past reasonable. Unmarked car, no badge, plainclothes, and way out of his juristiciton. Even though he shot to defend himself, I don't think it was legal, i.e., he did not have the legal right to defend himself. He might be off to jail for assault or attempted murder.

[brentspeak]

31. The thing is, the gunshot wound isn't life threatening

according to Marv Shottenheimer (Foley's coach). Which means the cop used remarkable restraint -- and great aim -- with his shooting.

[Scurrilous]

33. Great aim?

LOL

Cops aren't trained to shoot to wound...they are trained to shoot to kill.

The fucker missed.

[rocktivity]

35. Well, maybe the officer was drunk, too

What was HE doing out at 3:30 in the morning anyway?

:evilgrin:
rocknation

[krispos42]

48. They are trained to aim for the center-of-mass in stress situtations

Things like this, the officer might well have shot to wound because he would have had time to think and aim. He had time to fire three warning shots, after all.

[nolabels]

74. Yea, real good, being stressed means it's time to pull out the gun

And they call em Peace Officers :shrug:

[MnFats]

81. as i understand it, you don't 'shoot to wound.'

if you're going to use your firearm, you use it to drop the guy.
first round, you aim for the sternum. even if you're off a little, the guy is still going down.

that said, i am not taking sides. most police departments have 'use of force' policies that increase incrementally but require the minimum amount of force to control a situation/detain a suspect.

seems like this cop skipped a couple levels and went straight to his piece.

and, as others have said, you call for officers from the local department before making a stop. absolutely do that. you make a 'felony stop' which involves officers all but surrounding the vehicle before ordering the driver out. how did this cop know the guy didn't have a handgun or sawed-off between suspects? I know of a cop who got killed doing such a thing...

should be really interesting to see how this sorts out....we need a lot more information before deciding this one...

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

43. Brent, you forgot...

Style, flair, finesse, elan' and savoir faire. :eyes:

Man, you are gonna hurt yourself, like get a hernia, if you keep this up.

[Scairp]

45. Um, it's not Marv

It's MARTY Schottenheimer. And this shooting definitely sounds fishy. What was that cop doing riding around Poway at 3:30 am? And everybody has a cell phone these days, why not call 911 and let the local department handle this? No, he had no business following a car and confronting the occupants, off-duty and all by himself. That cannot possibly be SOP.

[Roy]

64. Or he is just not a good marksman....

I guess it is all in how the speculator want to shape this incident in the mind of others. It can also be speculated that with this many shots the cop only wanted one witness.

Did the cop really say he only fired to wound ?
Aren't they trained to shoot center mass if they have to fire their weapons?
sorry, but the restraint and great aim speculation doesn't pass the smell test either.

[ecstatic]

21. SHOT 3 TIMES IN FRONT OF HIS HOME, by OFF DUTY police officer

DU Apologists, please come out and explain this one!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060903/ap_on_sp_fo_ne/fbn_chargers_foley_shot

[go west young man]

39. Judging from the A.P. article it looks like it's more than a

coincidence the cop happened to pull him over. He had scuffled with police back in April but the charges for assault on an officer were dropped. Maybe someone had a score to settle. The dubious hour, the out of jurisdiction stop, and the fact no back up was called all leave me thinking foul play was involved here. Something definently doesn't add up.

[Zorra]

22. Creeps in unmarked cars were pretending to be cops and robbing

people in Florida pretty frequently a few years back. Don't remember if any folks were murdered by them.

I sure wouldn't stop my car just because some yahoo with a gun told me that they were a cop.

[MindPilot]

25. A Coronado cop sees a black man driving a nice car in Poway

hmmmm....

I think the cop pulled a real boner there.

[tomhayes]

49. Can't we just admit that *we* don't have the facts on this one

1)He said the car that was driving in was being *very* erratic, that's a plausiable reason to follow someone. (I was not there, so I do not know.)

2)We don't know why a Coronado police officer was out there at 3:30. Could have been (in order of likelyhood) leaving someone's house after a 'booty call', he could have been planting evidence that would have convicted Scott petersen again if needed, he could have been crusing for gay sex, he could have decided to racially profile in another neighborhood for a change, or he could have been stalking and planning to kill this guy. (I wasn't there, I don't know. I can tell you that Coronado is probably the msot expensive place in San Diego to live so maybe the cop lives in Poway.)

3)We don't know if the car tried to run down the off duty officer. (I wasn't there, but *if* it did then he is probably justified in shooting the man.)

4)We don't know if or when the off duty cop called for backup. Could have called immediately or could have called after the shooting, or most likely somewhere in between. I live in San Diego and I have called 911 whil eon the freeway behind a drunk and have been on hold (for CHP) for 12 minutes, at which time the drunk driver exited the freeway. (I don't know what happened I wasn't there.)

5)If the off-duty cop identified himself and asked the driver to stay back and wait until the police came, and then the guy put his hand in his pants and started to advance while saying "That ain't a eal gun, that's a BB gun" and then the off duty officer fired warning shots and the man still walked towards him, then he proably felt trheatened. (I wasn't there, i don't know.)

What can happen is to check out both side's stories.

I know that in most cases it'd be 100% police checking on other police, but since this is a celberity there may be a chance to investigate this form antother avenue. I understand the cops are just like a street gang in some cases.

I'm pretty sure if it was a hit that Foley would be dead and have a gun planted on him.

But *we* don't have the facts on this one yet. I distrust the police like you do, but I'd like to see evidence before I pass judgement.

[MindPilot]

57. There are exactly three people who know the facts

Every one else gets to guess which account--if any--is accurate. And so far all we have is the account of the guy who screwed up, the off-duty cop.

1.) Foley may have been driving "erratically" in an attempt to evade someone following him.

2.) Yes the cop could have been coming home from work which is a very likely scenario to explain his presence in Poway. But the cops I know prefer to just get home after their shift and leave the off-duty crime fighting to the next guy.

3.) Some one who claims to be a police officer follows me home and takes a couple shots at me?! Damn right I'm going to run at him with my vehicle; at that point I'm in fear of my life defending myself as best I can against an assailant who has yet to offer any proof that he is in fact an LEO. A badge flash and a firearm demonstration does not make a police officer.

4.) A cop doesn't have to wait for 911 to answer the phone. He has other more direct numbers he can call. And Foley made it home OK; he couldn't have been *that* drunk. You assume Foley was drunk based on the account of the guy who screwed up.

5.) See number 3. Anyone who's lived in San Diego for any period of time recalls when Craig Peyor, an *on*-duty CHP officer pulled over a woman in a routine traffic stop and murdered her. Or the cop who used his authority to take young girls to the beach and rape them. Our mistrust of police is well-founded.

[tomhayes]

65. i get it, without the facts you blame the cops

And without the facts most (white) people in San Dieog will agree with the cops.

Can we argee we don't know what happened yet??

1)
Foley may hav ebeen driving insanely drunk, verring all over the road, nearly swiping cars, cutting over corners and been a real and apparent danger to the community.
-or-
Foley could have been stone cold sober and when some jackoff tried to pull him over so he could brag to his fellow racist, violent, cops that he humilated Steve Foley!!!

We don't Know

2)This off duty cop (no tin a cop car) say this danger and felt it was his duty to try to stop such an obvious danger.
-or-
This lazy no good cop, who usually doesn't give a shit just decided to be Rambo and harrass a innocent BUT black man.

We don't know.

3)I can't even tackle this one in this format. We have no idea of the real time line. According to the Union Tirbune article he:
1)Saw a dangerous drunk.
2)Identified himself to the drunk at a stop light.
3)The drunk man drove away and then stopped somewhere later. (No idea of the timeline)
4)The drunk man got out of his car and said "That's a BB gun" and got back into his car and drove away.
5)The man drove to cul-de-sac.
6)The man started walking towards the cop with a woman driving the man's car along with him.
7)The cop fired a shot into the bushes to prove it was not a BB gun.
8)The woman in the car attempted to run down the cop.
9)The cop fired two shots at the car. (I'd think the cop was incredibly scared now, while the drunk man was angry.)
10)The drunk man reached into his pants and walked toward the cop. the cop shot him once. He fell to the grown, acknowledged he got shot and keep walking/crawling toward the cop.
11)The cop fired again.
12)The man was taken to the hospital.
13)The woman was taken to the police station.

What's missing from the officer's account:
1)How long this all took. Was it 6 minutes, or was it 30 minutes?
2)When/or did he call for backup? (Or call for Police.)

Plus, we have not heard Steve Foley's account. Or any police account other than the officer's witness statement.

I'd like to hear what Foley has to say, what the woman has to say and if he was drunk and how the officer identified himself.

Let's hope that
1)Steve Foley survives and his carreer is not ended.
2)The cop is relieved of duty until the investigation is complete.
3)The investigation is honest. (That's the tough one.)

I'm with holding judgement on this until i hear more.


Follow-up: http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/chargers/20060904-9999-1m4foleyshot.html

[Wally101]

88. You gotta be kidding me!

Okay....no judgement on whether the cop did the right thing or not, I'll wait for more information. He might have profiled the guy and shot him because he hates black people, or he might have been completely justified, we'll know more soon. But....

"And Foley made it home OK; he couldn't have been *that* drunk."

You gotta be joking with this line right? As long as you make it home OK you're not "that" drunk? Ever hear of people driving home and not remembering it the next day? Happens all the time. You may want to rethink that line.

Jeez....

[Hard_Work]

66. Yeah, no facts

"...then the off duty officer fired warning shots and the man still walked towards him, then he proably felt trheatened."

This is the most idiotic thing I've heard, and I hear it ALL THE TIME. I seriously doubt that a man with a gun would feel "threatened" by an unarmed man, no matter how big he was. And yeah, I read the part about him putting his hand in his pocket. So what? You already have a gun pointed at him, so even if he does pull out a gun, you already have the drop on him. There was still no reason to pull the trigger before evidence of a gun was established. Cops are trained to recognize and react to these situations faster than you or I could.

Oh, and if he felt that the car was gonna hit him, why not shoot te driver of the car? Why shoot the man walking toward him?

[krispos42]

70. Gunshot would are rarely immediately fatal or incapacitating

Barring a head or upper spinal cord shot, a person can be both fully functioning and dangerous for at least 12 seconds, the minimum time is takes to bleed out into unconciousness through a major wound through a major artery.

It's not me saying this, it's the FBI acadamy manual saying this as well. The effect of a bullet wound from a pistol is to a large extent psychological. The awareness of being shot is just as likely to cause incapacitation as the wound itself. A person who is shot and is not aware of it, the pain numbed by stress and adrenaline, can continue for quite a while. This effect is magnified by the presence of drugs in the system. On the flip side, there have been people who, by the fact that they were grazed or lightly wounded by a bullet, have stopped fighting and given up. It's the panic and the awareness of one's own mortality that often times does it.

It is entirely possible that, had an angry Foley charged, the officer could put four or five bullets in his and STILL been in a hand-to-hand fight for his life, as least until Foley collapsed from blood loss. It is also quite possible that, had Foley been going for a gun, Foley could still have drawn the hypothetical gun and fired it even with the officer shooting first and often.

Television and movies tend to play up the power of handgun wounds, at least until it's time for a dramatic "I'm too tough to die" scene by the hero or villian. Look at "Saving Private Ryan". Except for the ones turned to barbeque by a flame thrower, all the Germans killed died without any fuss. However, Caparzo, Wade, Mellish, Horvath, and Miller all have dramatic death scenes.

[Hard_Work]

75. If he pulled out a gun...

Do you honestly think the cop wouldn't have shot him in the head? Since he would have been fully justified in doing so?

Oh, and the Chargers have decided to put him on the non football injury list for the year, and will not pay him. I'm not saying they should, but he should sue that cop for every penny of the $775,000 he is not going to be paid this year.

[krispos42]

76. Head's a small and moving target

Nobody goes for the head in a fast-moving situation because it's just too damn small. It's bobbing up and down and side to sid, and possibly ducking as well. It's too easy for the attacker to jerk their head out of the way when he sees the gun barrel lining up on his eyeball. The cops go for the center of mass, the mid torso area, when they have to shoot fast.

The cop may also be in a ton of hot water because he may not have had the legal right to defend himself, because people engaged in a criminal act do not have the right to defend themselves. Of course the cop will say it is better to be judged by twelve than carried by six, but the general cosensus on this thread was that the cop screwed up big time.

And you're damn right: that cop should be sued for injuries, pain and suffering, and loss of income.

[Zomby Woof]

28. Fuck fuck FUCK

FUCK.

He should get good care. Sharp is one of the best hospitals in the state.

FUCK.

[jus_the_facts]

38. Sounds insane doesn't it.....he IS one scary lookin' dude though...

....they'd interview him after games here at ULM and he was always so soft spoken...gentle giant like...I hate this has happend and can't even begin to imagine what the FUCK happened in this bizarre incident...but his wounds eventhough not life threatening....they definitely could be career ending from the sound of it. x(

[truthisfreedom]

42. call for backup, you cowboy.

stupid cop.

[Az_lefty]

44. that was my first thought....

why didn't he call for backup.

[DiverDave]

50. This ain't NOWHERE NEAR good police procedure

Lets see:
330AM, what the heck is the cop doing out at that time?
Yes, he has that right, but bundled together with all the other stuff, it makes me wonder.
What the heck is he doing so far from his city?
Again, he has the right, but...
He "Identifies himself"??, How?, from a darkened car, while they are moving?
He doesn't simply call 911 to report a someone driving erratically.
He gets out of his car, escalating the confrontation.
He shoots, multiple times.

There is simply no excuse for this cops behavior, none.

There is no substitute for a well trained, disciplined police officer.
Which, from the info we have, this moron wasn't.

[MindPilot]

58. No he doesn't have a *right*

First off police don't have rights; they have power and the authority to exercise that power. Citizens have rights, and one of those rights is the limitation of the application and use of police powers.

Secondly the guy is outside his jurisdiction and therefore--barring very extraordinary circumstances like finding himself in the middle of a bank holdup--has no power or authority beyond a normal citizen.

He should have called it in to the local police and gone about his personal business.

[DiverDave]

72. He, as a private citizen

DOES have the right to go anywhere, at any time, he pleases.

Or, does being a cop negate those rights?

[krispos42]

77. He can go anyplace, but he can't bring his authority with him

Cops often go outside their juristiction during he course of their duties. But unless a crisis hits them in the face, like a traffic accident or a robbery, I don't think they are allowed to act in a law enforcement capacity. Or at least they are discouraged from doing so.

[MindPilot]

80. Did you read my post?

I didn't say anything remotely close to what you're inferring.

[jayfish]

53. Some Of The Responses By DU'ers To This Story Are Amazing.

In the state of Michigan, the driver of a motor-vehicle has no obligation to stop for anyone unless the vehicle doing the stopping is clearly marked as being operated by a law enforcement agency. That being said, if some creep followed me home at 3:00AM then proceeded to brandish a firearm at my doorstep, I'd run his ass down as well. Hell, the officer was lucky he didn't get shot himself. I suspect this is the case of an off-duty Rambo attempting to make a stop where he had no business doing so. He should have contacted the appropriate, local, law enforcement agency and followed at a safe distance until a lawful traffic-stop was made. At that point he could have assisted the officer making the stop by providing his eyewitness testimony.

Jay

[Thickasabrick]

54. I agree. Foley should sue for harrassment.

[psychopomp]

55. I hope for justice

but will not hold my breath.

Hope Mr. Foley makes a full recovery.

[peacebird]

56. no way would *i* stop for an unmarked car with some man saying he is a cop

Just ain't gonna happen.

I would dial 911 and tell them what was going on and drive to a well-lit public place like a police station or fire station. But I would NOT pull over for an unmarked car.

I'm with you on this one, Jayfish - the cop should've called for backup and waited.

[MindPilot]

59. Even if you are pulled over by a uniformed officer in a marked car

you can still drive to a lighted, populated area before stopping.

A move which provided witnesses to the execution-style killing several years ago when a sheriff's deputy pulled over the president of the local NORML chapter, cuffed him, put him on the ground and shot him in the back of the head.

Cop claimed he was threated when the victim pulled out a plastic pocket marlinspike.

[Scurrilous]

69. Foley Is Out for the Season

<snip>

"San Diego Chargers linebacker Steve Foley will miss the season after being shot near his suburban home by an off-duty police officer.

Foley was put on the non-football injured reserve list on Monday, a day after he was shot by an off-duty Coronado officer and a week before the Chargers open at Oakland."

<snip>

"Based on the medical information he was given, Chargers General Manager A.J. Smith decided to put Foley on non-football injured reserve.

"I can't reveal all of that information except that I had enough information that I had to make a football decision," Smith said. "I had to ask, 'What's the timetable?' We felt in the best interest of him and the team, that he would be out of action for the year."

There was no new information released Monday about the shooting."


http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-nflrep5sep05,1,2880139.story?coll=la-headlines-sports

[Nikki Stone 1]

78. What is the law in CA about stopping for unmarked vehicles?

It seems to me that the case hinges on this. If Californians are not required to stop for unmarked vehicles, then the cop was totally in violation of the law.

I would NEVER stop for an unmarked vehicle, especially at night. There is too much of a potential for criminal activity. I think it is significant that the GIRLFRIEND tried to drive the car into the off duty officer. I might do the same thing if I weren't sure that the guy holding the gun was indeed a cop and had my best interests at heart. It was the only weapon she had against an unknown male with a gun.

[MindPilot]

79. See my post #59. In California you don't even have to stop for a

*marked* police car if you are uncomfortable with the location. You can drive slowly with your flashers on to well-lighted and/or populated area.

And the other thing that makes this cop look really over the top is that the CA Supreme Court recently ruled that LEO's can enter a home without a warrant in pursuit of a suspected drunk driver. So even if Foley really was that drunk, the cop could have simply waited outside his house for the on-duty cops to show up.

I'm amazed at the number of people here on DU who seem to think that cops are this elite group of morally perfect individuals whose word is sacrosanct. "I mistrust cops as much as the next guy (sounds like some of my best friends are...") but that's what he said happened..."

[Nikki Stone 1]

89. Thank you! This Foley story sounds fishy, but then I remember Rodney King

which seemed like a crock to me at the time too.

[Desperadoe]

82. San Diego Chargers announced....

they WILL NOT be paying him a salary this year, since his injury is non-football related. This means that he will forfeit somewhere around 1 million dollars. Sorry 'bout that, Steve.

This cop better have his business fixed, because if he is found to be in the wrong, which I think he may be, someone is going to be paying Mr. Foley and his attorney's a whole shitload of money. Could be even worse if this causes him to have an aborted career or a permanent disability.

They certainly have this thing locked down pretty tight with very few facts coming out either on what happened or even his condition.

[MikeyJones]

83. Off-duty policeman "enforcing" the law 30 fucking miles outside of his....

jurisdiction? WTF? Is it just me or can this guy get indicted on attempted murder charges, stalking charges, impersonating a police officer charges and God himself knows what else? Does this stupid fucker not realize his jurisdiction ends at his city/town's corporation limit? Does he realize he legally CANNOT "enforce" the law anywhere outside of those boundaries? The guy's got a lot of nerve and I hope they get him for attempted murder because you can't just shoot somebody for walking toward your car -- and especially since he didn't visibly have a weapon on him? If this cop gets away with this shit then I am leaving this country because I will know we are in an effective fascist police state at that point.