Bush acknowledges secret CIA prisons

[opusprime]

Start the impeachment proceedings.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060906/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush

Bush acknowledges secret CIA prisons

By NEDRA PICKLER, Associated Press Writer 16 minutes ago

WASHINGTON -
President Bush has transferred 14 key terrorist leaders from secret
CIA custody to the U.S. military-run prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, to be prepared for eventual trials, a senior administration official said Wednesday.


The high-value suspected terrorists include Khalid Sheik Mohammed, believed to be the No. 3 al-Qaida leader before he was captured in Pakistan in 2003; Ramzi Binalshibh, an alleged would-be Sept. 11, 2001, hijacker; and Abu Zubaydah, who was believed to be a link between
Osama bin Laden and many al-Qaida cells before he was also captured in Pakistan, in March 2002.

Bush revealed the move in a speech from the White House, with families of those killed in the 2001 attacks making up part of the audience. The announcement, which the White House touted beforehand, comes as Bush has sought with a series of speeches to sharpen the focus on national security two months before high-stakes congressional elections.

Speaking at the White House, the president said that the country was still under threat from terrorists.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[Lerkfish]

2. I think bad guys like Bush SHOULD be held accountable, I agree.

although I'm sure that's not what you meant.

Bush is an admitted war criminal, on the books here admitting to violating the geneva convention and our own constitution.

which bad guys were YOU referring to?

oh, yeah, those we tortured in those secret prisons with waterboarding and hand drills in their spine.

[joemurphy]

3. Yes, they do. In an open forum with due process of law.

Free of torture and human rights violations. Why try them in a "military commission"?

[OKIsItJustMe]

45. One of my favorite buttons nowadays...

George W. Bush
Deserves a Fair Trial

[Tyrone Slothrop]

5. Accountability and punishment are great

However, there needs to be transparency with regards to their confinement and eventual trial.

Unless, of course, you'd rather be living under a totalitarian regime like the old Soviet Union.

[w4rma]

7. Good. And now they will be held accountable.

I'm talking about the terrorists of course. The ones who are imprisoned not in secret anymore.

[redqueen]

12. Good that they're going to trial. Good that they're no longer 'secret'.

Bad that they were kept secret until 60 days before an election. Republicans playing politics with our security, once again.

[LynnTheDem]

66. So you were ok with Saddam Hussein doing it?

Or is it only "bad" when he did it, and "good" when we do it?

Just wondering.

:eyes:

[partylessinOhio]

4. The country is still under threat from * and the neocons.

Why was he making all those funny faces while speaking????

[The Sushi Bandit]

6. When will the capital police go arrest him?

[JPZenger]

9. We Can't Put them on Trial Because We Tortured Them

The 9-11 widows have spoken out in the past and complained that the people most responsible for the 9-11 attacks who are held by the US have not been tried. The reason is that we cannot put them on trial because then it would be revealed to the world how they were tortured. And I am not just talking about nude man-piles.

[Name removed]

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[Lerkfish]

37. and you know this....how?

because Bushco tells you so?

without an actual trial, how do you know they are guilty, eh?

I edited to add: and you seem to gloss over the whole torture thing.

do you SUPPORT torture in violation of the geneva convention and our own constitution?

[Laurab]

39. Or, they could be totally innocent civilians

I'm not sure where your get your facts from, but how do YOU know what they are, since they were in secret prisons, not allowed lawyers, tortured, etc. Why does the administration hide them away if they are "murderers and fanatics"? Why not address that in a LEGAL court, where, if they are "murderers and fanatics", they would be punished accordingly?

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

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[Laurab]

62. Don't hurt yourself - and it's tongue, btw

I said nothing about them not being held - I said they should not be held in SECRET Prisons, with no access to outsiders, lawyers - you know, the rule of LAW. If they are terrorists of COURSE they should be held - LEGALLY - in a place where they're innocent until proven guilty, and more importantly, not TORTURED.

I am defending and making excuses for the legal process. I don't believe in secret prisons, torture, holding people indefinitely without charging them, not allowing them access to lawyers, etc. Perhaps you do.

"Programmed to hate" is interesting - I'm not sure where you got that, but yes, I hate the fact that we don't follow the Geneva Conventions, we torture and kill people who are sometimes innocent, we have people dying in an unneccessary and illegal war - I hate ALL of that.

I do believe you're lost, and perhaps should go back to your own "site"....I can't speak for "everyone on this site", but I personally don't like the illegal things your president does. We will be paying for these things for a long, long time.

[Julius Civitatus]

40. ...unless they are cab drivers caught in the wrong place

Plenty of those filled Abu Grahib and Guantanamo, unfortunately.

[ptolle]

47. GD right

If we as a country, supposedly The superpower on the face of the planet, cannot defend ourselves from stateless terrorists, and do it according to the principles upon which this country was founded and well-operated for 200+ years we don't truly deserve even the little respect we may have left in the world.What a wonderful example for all those democracies we're supposed to be fostering in the middle east.How exactly do we explain things like rule of law when we're operating under the principles you and the chimperor seem to be espousing?

[crim son]

51. The way we treat these prisoners, with respect to torture,

the manner in which we detain them, and the manner in which they are prosecuted, will determine how american soldiers are subjected to the same, in this undeclared "war" on terror. Reason enough for fairness and transparency, if the law itself does not persuade.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

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[crim son]

60. Are you functionally unable to imagine an alternative

to simple negotiation or just letting them go? Think outside the box. You know, like a Democrat.

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

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[stepnw1f]

56. HOW DO YOU KNOW?

How do you know they are murderers and fanatics? Please tell us all..... we'll be waiting.

It would be easier if there was a court, so we could actually prove these folks were "murderers and fanatics", but instead, we are left to trust a man who has no integrity at all. Are you naive....? I think so.... stick around and learn something if you can just for a second, allow alternative information to sink into your head. Ya nevvveerrrrrr knowwwww........

[Name removed]

59. Deleted sub-thread

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[rodeodance]

8. a few legal gusys saying on npr that this was extraordinary info just

now that Jr. had in his speech.

[datadiva]

10. Nedra Pickler

must be drinking the kool-aid. Not one mention of the fact that secret prisons are not supposed to exist. Spins it in favor of Bush*.

[Eurobabe]

71. she's been juicing on BushBot Brew since

before the 2004 election.

[HuffleClaw]

11. what complete bullshit

soviet show trials? bushco. are just digging that hole even deeper aren't they?

[redqueen]

13. There are still a few that are eating it up, apparently. n/t

[newscott]

14. This is being done for November and November only.

[underpants]

21. The second paragraph will probably be spun to imply W caught them

He said the "small number" of detainees that have been kept in CIA custody include people responsible for the bombing of the USS Cole in 2000 in Yemen and the 1998 attacks on U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, in addition to the 2001 attacks.

How many were already in custody? Well not the people responsible for the Cole but everyone else.

[rodeodance]

15. Patrick Leahy on npr just now was very critical of past WH practices

[rodeodance]

16. He said that this was the adm. that said thee were wmd---so he wants to

more more about what Bush was claiming.

[cyberpj]

17. If the liar admits to 14.......

Anyone want to guess at the real number?

[cyberpj]

18. "with families of those killed in the 2001 attacks ..."

You can bet The Jersey Girls weren't there.

[Communism_not_USA]

20. What bothered me was

The President saying that 12 released from Gitmo were captured engaging in further terrorist activities. If they are terrorist who by definition do not follow the Geneva Convention(Attack civilians, don't wear uniforms, and kill prisoners) why let them go to commit further acts???

These nut job crazies make the right wing Christians look like teddy bears.

How can one side follow the rules and the other ignore them.

It is time to tell Americans that there is a more effective way of fighting these terrorists and that nation building in Iraq is not the front lines of this fight.

George Bush has been too incompetent on the war on terror.

Democrats will loose if they take the Clinton approach and advocate doing nothing after WTC 93, Khobar Towers, USS Cole, African Embassies blown up etc. They must say they will actually get bin Laden and will go after these Muslim terrorists. Sooner, better, and with more firepower than Rumsfeld and Bush. Put the Republicans on the defensive of their only issue.

[louis-t]

22. "Democrats will 'loose'"

or 'lose'. Sorry, pet peeve.

[ptolle]

48. logic not communism's forte

The "liberal media" has somehow neglected to inform people like you and the rest of Murka that in regards the 93 WTC attack Under Clinton, they caught the entire cell (before they could execute their next attack, blowing up the Lincoln and Holland tunnels and several NYC landmarks). they also caught the "blind sheik," Omar Abdel Rahman in Jersey City. Rahman was the cleric behind the creation of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood and the Egyptian Islamic Jihad (which merged with al Qaeda). He was, in 1993, the world's leading jihadist cleric and mentor to Ayman al-Zawahiri, ObL's top lieutenant.- clinton response WTC '93
You might think about the fact that the first WTC attack was planned during the last two years of George H. W. Bush's presidency - right under his nose - in Jersey City and Brooklyn mosques and safe houses. The terrorists also came and went from the US with no hindrance during the Bush days.
They also tracked down and caught the man who planned the attack, Ramsi Yousef, in Pakistan - just in time to break up his next attack, the planned simultaneous bombing of 11 US planes over the Pacific.
. In the two US embassy bombings in Africa, also heavily covered by the "liberal" media, the Clinton administration's PUBLIC investigation identified the 17 terrorists behind the bombings, including bin Laden. Four were captured by the FBI, tried, and imprisoned for life.
Less than two weeks later, Clinton attacked the main al Qaeda camp in Afghanistan with a barrage of Tomahawk cruise missiles. Bin Laden escaped the attack, but the camp was destroyed.
-
As to the Cole, it was bombed in the last weeks leading up to the Bush inauguration. Clinton sent the FBI and the Joint Terrorist Task Force (based in the NYC FBI office) under command of Special Agent John O'Neill to Yemen investigate the Cole bombing. The Conservative (neocon) Republican Ambassador to Yemen, Barbara Bodine, did her best to derail the investigation. She advised the Yemeni officials not to talk to the FBI, forbade the FBI from questioning suspects, and even forbade the FBI from carrying weapons after they had received death threats.
-
Once Bush took over, he quietly pulled out the team and let the investigation die. Bodine was rewarded by Bush by being appointed the Coordinator for Central Iraq (including Baghdad)
I'm sorry your knowledge of the situation seems just a little loose.
Can you please name me one democrat who has advocated "doing nothing"?
In any event the repiglicons have always portrayed themselves as the party of personal responsibility and in that vein I've taken full personal responsibility for my own personal security from the terrorist threat. I live well inland and so will have ample warning of the approach of the terrorist navy and probably those terrorist paratroopers as well.I'm one of those liberals who has only philosophical problems with the second amendment and handle firearms probably much better than the average NRA member.In addition my homestead produces virtually all of the food I eat the production of which I have full control over and my water system is completely self-contained as is the electrical generation system.All that in mind I'd just as soon this country adhere to those principles it has always preached. Your approach leads me to believe the terrists have already won.

[crim son]

52. Did you read ptolle's response to your queries?

V. nicely said. Maybe you should start doing a little reading on the subject before posting gross inaccuracies. Just a thought. :hi:

[Up2Late]

19. Bush admits CIA held terrorism suspects outside U.S. (Reuters)

(Here's a version from outside the White House steno pool.)

Bush admits CIA held terrorism suspects outside U.S

Wed Sep 6, 2006 02:16 PM ET

By Steve Holland and Will Dunham

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President George W. Bush acknowledged for the first time on Wednesday that some foreign terrorism suspects have been held by the CIA outside the United States.

Bush defended a CIA program to interrogate top terrorism suspects, saying they were a vital source of information.

"Our security depends on getting this kind of information," Bush said. The CIA prison program was reported by a newspaper last year, sparking international criticism of the Bush administration.

Bush said the U.S. has moved 14 key terrorism suspects held in secret CIA prisons to military control, while the Pentagon banned a series of what it called abusive interrogation tactics for all detainees.

The 14 suspects were transferred to Pentagon control for prosecution at the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, where the military already holds roughly 445 prisoners.

(more at link) <http://go.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=13407388&src=rss/topNews>

[johnlal]

24. Ramzi Yousef was convicted fairly quickly...

The US successfully prosecuted and imprisoned Ramzi Yousef for masterminding the bombing of the World Trade Center. We didn't have as much trouble as Bush is having now. Now I don't know whether the CIA did anything behind the scenes to get Ramzi Yousef, and I would prefer NOT to know. But it just makes me wonder why we're going through all of these contortions instead of just putting these jerks in jail.

[AllyCat]

54. And using currently available court systems no less.

Why * feels he needs a special tribunal to try these guys only tells us that he wants to remain outside the rule of law (again).

[Tigermoose]

25. Bush, Rice, and Ashcroft signed off on torturing prisoners.

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigation/story?id=1356870


The CIA maintains its interrogation techniques are in legal guidance with the Justice Department. And current and former CIA officers tell ABC News there is a presidential finding, signed in 2002, by President Bush, Condoleezza Rice and then-Attorney General John Ashcroft approving the techniques, including water boarding.


Sounds like an impeachable offense...

[waiting for hope]

26. From Wiki -

It does function as a means of controlling people through fear........Nothing new here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethical_arguments_regarding_torture

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

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[Delphinus]

34. I'll second that! n/t

[Connie_Corleone]

28. Didn't that mofo just say in his speech that he never condoned

torture??

He lied. Big surprise.

[johnlal]

38. He didn't say torture

He said "alternative set of procedures". And you just know that those words came straight from Alberto Gonzales's lips. For such religious men, they think they can look you right in the face and lie to you, if they use the right "magic words".

[Fiendish Thingy]

29. k&r - couldn't get link to work n/t

[rodeodance]

30. they have an old news report when i logged on.

[rodeodance]

31. here is some of it:

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigation/story?id=1356870
ABC News: History of an Interrogation Technique: Water Boarding


Nov. 29, 2005 — CIA Director Porter Goss maintained this week that the CIA does not employ methods of torture. In doing so, he opened a new debate over exactly what constitutes torture — especially when it comes to the harshest of the CIA's six secret interrogation techniques, known as "water boarding."

The water board technique dates back to the 1500s during the Italian Inquisition. A prisoner, who is bound and gagged, has water poured over him to make him think he is about to drown.

Current and former CIA officers tell ABC News that they were trained to handcuff the prisoner and cover his face with cellophane to enhance the distress. According to Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., himself a torture victim during the Vietnam War, the water board technique is a "very exquisite torture" that should be outlawed.

"Torture is defined under the federal criminal code as the intentional infliction of severe mental pain or suffering," said John Sifton, an attorney and researcher with the organization Human Rights Watch. "That would include water boarding."

[MaineDem]

33. History of an Interrogation Technique: Water Boarding

This is the article in the link. The last paragraph is the quote in the OP.

[daleo]

32. Six secret techniques

"CIA Director Porter Goss maintained this week that the CIA does not employ methods of torture. In doing so, he opened a new debate over exactly what constitutes torture — especially when it comes to the harshest of the CIA's six secret interrogation techniques, known as "water boarding."

The water board technique dates back to the 1500s during the Italian Inquisition. A prisoner, who is bound and gagged, has water poured over him to make him think he is about to drown.

Current and former CIA officers tell ABC News that they were trained to handcuff the prisoner and cover his face with cellophane to enhance the distress. According to Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., himself a torture victim during the Vietnam War, the water board technique is a "very exquisite torture" that should be outlawed."

Later in the article, it is noted that the U.S. army would not allow this practice during Viet Nam. Perhaps if Bush would have been doing something more than snorting coke...

I wonder what the other five techniques are.

[Gregorian]

35. Anything short of a live abortion on television.

I guarantee if Bush's parents were subjected to such tortures, there would be screaming from the mountaintops. All hell would break loose. It's utter hipocrisy. Everyone knows it.

[The Backlash Cometh]

36. You guys pick up on the pattern? You accuse these bastards of

wrong-doing and without shame they'll say to your face, "yeah, I did it because a decision had to be made and I made it."

So the next time a poor man steals a loaf a bread to feed his family, maybe he should try the same defense.

[johnlal]

41. What do Secret Prisons and Secret Torture have in common?

They're supposed to be a SECRET!

I am not naive. I know that the CIA has been busting heads for decades, IN SECRET. If we had illegal prisons, doing illegal torture, ostensibly for the protection of the country, that's bad enough. But that kind of thing has been going on without much attention for quite some time. What possible reason could W have had to advertise to the world that we have secret prisons? What further damage is it going to do to our image abroad. Couldn't he have kept this information to himself?

This reminds me of Abu Ghraib. It was bad enough that the torture was actually happening there, but it was almost worse that security was so lax. That soldiers were allowed to take pictures, and to distribute them without any regulation at all.

Again, if your are going to have Secret prisons, if you are going to have secret torture methods, at least try to keep them a secret!

[Lerkfish]

43. are you being SERIES!!111?

you'd rather we tortured people secretly?

[johnlal]

44. I don't think we should be torturing at all.

I don't think we should be using secret detention either.

However, I think that if Bush has made up his mind to torture, and if he has made up his mind to illegally detain prisoners in secret prisons, it is reckless of him to make these secrets known in such a public disclosure. I think that this is going to seriously damage our credibility abroad, and I can't understand why he made this disclosure. Especially since he's going to just keep doing it.

I think whistleblowers are heroes, and should keep doing what they're doing. But I think that the only thing wrong with Bush's secret torture is Bush's openly continuing to torture.

[crim son]

53. Why reckless?

The Pretzel has managed to lie, torture and and steal for the past six years without any real repercussions. No doubt he believes he'll get away with this too, and he's probably right.

[johnlal]

72. This is just an untenable situation

I don't know what's worse, torturing in secrecy, or torturing for the world to see. I guess the only answer is "Let's not torture".

[crim son]

73. I agree with that.

Torture does not elicit reliable intelligence, and it causes a lot of serious ill-will. If I thought otherwise, I'd have trouble condemning it outright.

[AllyCat]

55. Unless you're trying to win a midterm election for the pigs that

continue to support your horrid policies. He could care less about the secret if it will further the Neo-con agenda and keep the Repiglicans in power after '06. If he doesn't succeed in keeping the House solidly red, he knows he'll get impeached. And hopefully, jailed.

[smb]

74. Since When...

...does George of the Bungle get anything right?

[OwnedByFerrets]

42. Someone help me out....

didnt monkeyboy say awhile back that there were NO secret CIA prisons? I realize that its just another lie by a confirmed liar, but it should be used against him, if he did say it.

[951-Riverside]

46. I wonder how many secret experiments and executions we've done.

I wonder why no one is touching the subject of execution, I know they're doing it, who's stopping them?

[civildisoBDence]

49. Our own gulag archipelago

Solzhenitsyn wrote about the Soviet gulags after spending eight years in one.

Who will write the American "Gulag Archipelago"?

News and commentary, left to right

[orpupilofnature57]

50. Kkkarl

[Blue_Tires]

61. secret prisons?

i though rumsfeld said they didn't exist??

[bhikkhu]

63. previous denials - any quotes? (lies?)

[Democrats_win]

64. Did Rolling Stone article about Gitmo make them admit this?

Rolling Stone used an interview with lawyers of one very young Gitmo "prisoner" to show how wrong all of this is. This kid was raised a jihadist and was kept in the worst possible conditions at Gitmo. He didn't know any better. Surely Americans are smarter than to do what they did to this kid.

This will be the darkest period in American history. Our "educated" nation's shame will reach out to future generations and bush will be it's face. Perhaps today we see some recognition that his legacy is one of pure evil.

[LynnTheDem]

65. One of the very excuses bush gave for invading & occupying Iraq.

Hussein "indefinitely detaining" Iraqis in "secret jails". And then there's the "he started wars against other nations" excuse. And so very many other ironies. What a MFing joke.

[unschooler]

68. NYT: President Moves 14 Held in Secret to Guantánamo

WASHINGTON, Sept. 6 — President Bush said on Wednesday that 14 high-profile terror suspects held secretly until now by the Central Intelligence Agency had been transferred to the detention center at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, to face military tribunals if Congress approves.

The group includes Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, thought to be the mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks. Mr. Bush said he had decided to “bring them into the open’’ after years in which they have been held by the C.I.A. without charges in undisclosed locations abroad, in a program the White House had not previously acknowledged.

The announcement, in the East Room of the White House, was the first time the president had discussed the secret C.I.A. program, and he made clear he had fully authorized it. Mr. Bush defended the treatment the suspects had received, but would not say where the so-called “high-value terrorist detainees” had been held or the techniques used to extract information from them.

The transfer of the high-level suspects to Guantánamo Bay effectively suspended the extraordinary program, in which the intelligence agency became the jailer and interrogator of suspects counterterrorism officials considered the world’s most wanted Islamic extremists.

(more)

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/07/us/07detain.html?hp&ex=1157601600&en=42853988c547fbfe&ei=5094&partner=homepage

[urbuddha]

69. Duh-bya and Cheney should be held for war crimes !

This administration is literally getting away with murder !
:mad:

[NVMojo]

70. desperate to keep control of country and gop, Bush pulls prisoners out of

his ass crack. Not only is this wrong but it's total PR bullshit, AGAIN!

[superconnected]

75. in a democracy why do we have "secret cia custody" and private

govenment prisons.

Sorry, but this sounds like a totalitarian dictatorship to me.

[NCSTATER3]

76. How stupid

did he think we were. As stupid as him? Bush is a legend in his own mind.

[Megahurtz]

77. What's scary is,

who else do they just throw in there if they feel like it?
How would we ever know?:shrug:

[bamacrat]

78. Isnt all this illegal?

[Eclectic Man]

79. Latest breaking news...? This has been out for months.

[Penndems]

80. Looks like the right wing and the Bush Administration owe Dana Priest of

The Washington Post an apology, considering they were calling her a "traitor" when she broke this story.

Now that the The Village Idiot has come clean, Dana's gotta feel vindicated.