Army general says Rumsfeld refused to plan for post-war Iraq

[sabra]

http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/news/nation/15473180.htm

Army general says Rumsfeld refused to plan for post-war Iraq


FORT EUSTIS, Va. - Long before the United States invaded Iraq in 2003, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld forbade military strategists to develop plans for securing a post-war Iraq, the retiring commander of the Army Transportation Corps said Thursday.

In fact, said Brig. Gen. Mark Scheid, Rumsfeld said "he would fire the next person" who talked about the need for a post-war plan.

...

"Then, just as we were barely into Afghanistan Rumsfeld came and told us to get ready for Iraq."

Scheid said he remembers everyone thinking, "My gosh, we're in the middle of Afghanistan, how can we possibly be doing two at one time? How can we pull this off? It's just going to be too much."

[babylonsister]

1. I greatly look forward to hearing all about it from generals who

were there. Their words should cement Rummy's 'legacy'.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

2. Raises the question as to whether total chaos...

...followed by collapse and civil war was in fact the plan all along.

This might be an interesting poll question to post along with your news item.

[FoxOnTheRun]

8. Yes it was,

why do you think they fired Jay Garner and put Bremer in?

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

11. The first time I saw Garner...

...speaking to the press I felt sure he wouldn't last---he seemed truthful, smart, and sincerely determined to help the Iraqi people. It was a given they'd get rid of him.

[FoxOnTheRun]

13. but it gets better

According to a classified document, "Special Operations and Joint Forces in Countering Terrorism" prepared for Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld by his Defense Science Board, a new organization has been created to thwart potential terrorist attacks on the United States. This counter-terror operations group— the "Proactive Preemptive Operations Group" (P2OG) will require 100 people and at least $100 million a year. The team of covert counter-intelligence agents will be responsible for secret missions designed to target terrorist leaders. The secret missions are designed to "stimulate reactions" among terrorist groups, provoking them into committing violent acts which would then expose them to "counterattack" by U.S. forces.

This means that the United States government is planning to use secret military operations in order to provoke murderous terrorist attacks on innocent people. In a strange twist of logic, it seems the plan is to somehow combat terrorism by causing it. According to the report, other strategies include stealing money from terrorist cells or tricking them with fake communications. The Defense Department already maintains a secretive counter-terror operations group known as Delta Force that is called in when a crisis happens.

Exactly what type of actions would be required to "stimulate reactions" by terrorist groups has yet to be revealed. When asked questions regarding what measures would be taken, Pentagon sources responded with, "Their sovereignty will be at risk."

http://www.projectcensored.org/publications/2004/4.html

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

17. Gotta destroy the village to save the village...

...that's BushCo.

[psychopomp]

26. wiki:

!It has been suggested that Garner was moved aside because he did not agree with the White House about who should decide how to reconstruct Iraq. He wanted early elections - 90 days after the fall of Bagdhad, and the new government to decide how to run the country and what to do with their assets. The President's plan was to start the selling off of the country's assets including Iraq’s large oil assets and holding elections later. Garner responded to this by saying "I don't think need to go by the U.S. plan, I think that what we need to do is set an Iraqi government that represents the freely elected will of the people. It's their country… their oil.”

[FoxOnTheRun]

31. Allowing them to sell their oil would let the oil price go down

that's not good for Chevron and the oil backed dollar

[bamacrat]

3. Can he not be impeached or fired or lynched or something?

Whose dicision is it if he stays or goes? Im shure its chimpy.

[Amonester]

24. Actually, it's Dead-eyed Darth...

... who told his chimpy what to do, what to say, and showed it where to sign.

[Kagemusha]

4. As I thought, no post-war plan was a feature, not a bug.

Threatening (promising) to fire the next person to bring it up is a good way to shut off input...

[ConcernedCanuk]

5. Of course there was no post war plan - it ain't supposed to end!

.
.
.

Iraq belongs to the US now -

US has over a dozen bases in Iraq

How many does Iraq have?

US has bases in Afghanistan, the Arabian Sea, the Mediterranean Sea, allies include Israel, Pakistan, Britain, some of the old Soviet Provinces, - and more that I probably don't know about - -

Iraq was not the goal, IRAN is , ,

Look at a globe -

They have Iran surrounded.

Iraq was their final staging ground to take Iran -

And then -

Attempt to do what Hitler failed at -

Move on to Moscow . .

US will fail too

Count on it.

[pinto]

6. The General seems to know what he's talking about. Another snip.

(And, he retires in three weeks. Good time to speak your mind...)

In 2001, Scheid was a colonel with the Central Command, the unit that oversees U.S. military operations in the Mideast.

On Sept. 10, 2001, he was selected to be the chief of logistics war plans.

On Sept. 11, he said, "life just went to hell."

That day, Gen. Tommy Franks, the commander of Central Command, told his planners, including Scheid, to "get ready to go to war."

A day or two later, Rumsfeld was "telling us we were going to war in Afghanistan and to start building the war plan. We were going to go fast.

"Then, just as we were barely into Afghanistan Rumsfeld came and told us to get ready for Iraq."

<end snip>

http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/news/nation/15473180.htm

[elehhhhna]

7. With no plan it would be a free-for-all. THAT WAS THE PLAN.

Easier to steal everything in the midst of the chaos.

THEY HAD A PLAN. It's still paying like a fukkin slot machine, too.

[goforit]

9. STOP right there!!!! Rummy had full intention to create post Iraq CHAOS!!

This is how they defer others from seeing their true intentions.

[Ghost Dog]

10. Here's also part of the problem:

Even if the people who laid out the initial war plans had fleshed out post-invasion missions, the fighting and insurgent attacks going on today would have been hard to predict, Scheid said.

"We really thought that after the collapse of the regime we were going to do all these humanitarian type things," he said. "We thought this would go pretty fast and we'd be able to get out of there. We really didn't anticipate them to continue to fight the way they did or come back the way they are.

"Now we're going more toward a Civil War. We didn't see that coming."

--> So, even trained people like this guy in the US have such little grasp of the nature of different international cultures and their histories... The present (and developing) outcome was pretty damn obvious when viewed from here in W. Europe not to mention most everywhere else in the world.

[The_Casual_Observer]

12. It's possible that he actually believed the Neocon nonsense

about being greeted as liberators & that Chalabi and his friends would handle all the details. This squares with the fact that these guys are actually overrated dumb shits.

[TexasLawyer]

14. War with Iraq will be a last resort

Yeah right. No wonder they were so quiet about the plans. War with Iraq was a done deal from the beginning.

<snip>

"Planning was kept very hush-hush in those early days.

"There was only a handful of people, maybe five or six, that were involved with that plan because it had to be kept very, very quiet."

There was already an offensive plan in place for Iraq, Scheid said. And in the beginning, the planners were just expanding on it."

<snip>

[civildisoBDence]

15. Does anyone else feel the momentum building

for the impeachment of DUHbya and the firing of Rumsfeld?

When this many generals and Republicans weigh in against the Bush cabal, it seems like just a matter of time...as long as Democrats take the House.

News and commentary, left to right

[FoxOnTheRun]

16. Cheney President and Lieberman Sec. of defense?

[LuckyTheDog]

18. Let the swift-boating begin!

Certainly this guy has some Purple Hearts that can be questioned right? :banghead: :sarcasm:

[Pirate Smile]

19. Army general says Rumsfeld refused to plan for post-war Iraq

Army general says Rumsfeld refused to plan for post-war Iraq
By Stephanie Heinatz

Daily Press (Newport News, Va.)

(MCT)

FORT EUSTIS, Va. - Long before the United States invaded Iraq in 2003, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld forbade military strategists to develop plans for securing a post-war Iraq, the retiring commander of the Army Transportation Corps said Thursday.
In fact, said Brig. Gen. Mark Scheid, Rumsfeld said "he would fire the next person" who talked about the need for a post-war plan.

Rumsfeld did replace Gen. Eric Shinseki, the Army chief of staff in 2003, after Shinseki told Congress that hundreds of thousands of troops would be needed to secure post-war Iraq.

-snip-
Scheid said he remembers everyone thinking, "My gosh, we're in the middle of Afghanistan, how can we possibly be doing two at one time? How can we pull this off? It's just going to be too much."
Planning was kept very hush-hush in those early days.

-snip-
Planning continued to be a challenge.
"The secretary of defense continued to push on us that everything we write in our plan has to be the idea that we are going to go in, we're going to take out the regime, and then we're going to leave," Scheid said. "We won't stay."
Scheid said the planners continued to try "to write what was called Phase 4," or the piece of the plan that included post-invasion operations like security, stability and reconstruction.

Even if the troops didn't stay, "at least we have to plan for it," Scheid said.
"I remember the secretary of defense saying that he would fire the next person that said that," Scheid said. "We would not do planning for Phase 4 operations, which would require all those additional troops that people talk about today."

http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/news/nation/15473180.htm

[babylonsister]

20. Can anyone doubt this man shouldn't be in this position? Anyone? nt

[Benhurst]

21. Yeah.

George Walker Bush

[babylonsister]

22. I'm awfully sick and tired of this neanderthal setting the tone for

my country. He's a blooming idiot, and we have to abide by what 'he' says? I know, but it pisses me the FUCK off!
Bon soir, Benhurst! :hi:

[exlrrp]

23. Read about it in "Fiasco" by Thomas Ricks

Ricks cover this much more extensively.
He tells all about the Neocon effect--that Wolfowitz and Feith were the main ones pushing the "New Era in the Middle East" meme, that American troops woild be welcomed as liberators by the Iraqi people.
Ricks details in many section the lack of planing for "Phase IV" the occupation of Iraq. As the general says, there was no panning at all.
But possibly more important than the lack of planning for Phase IV was the way he made the Army6 discard TPFDL (called tipfiddle) which is the uber-plan for how many troops should be employed in a given circumstance. This was where the disagreement with Shinseki over the number of troops to be used came in. Shinseki was using the numbers long agreeed on and planned for which Rumefeld ordered the Army to ignore. Shinseki was pushed out for saying thingsd the Army had figured out long before but Rummy chose to ignore.
Rummy wanted to go into Iraq with as few troops as possible. They actually went into the war with only 3 divisions, the Marine Force (about a division) and a few reinforced brigades. Thius was less than a third of what they took into Iraq the first time.This was sufficent to beat Saddams Army but completely insufficent to secure the country.
Read this book, its excellent, the best book on the war Ive read so far. Its all about Rummy's incompetence

[knowledgeispwr]

25. Reason Rumsfeld Wanted No Plan

http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm

Because he wanted to stay there indefinitely. It's part of his charter. Check the site - he's one of the signatures.

[Eurobabe]

27. Hey Ronald Dumbsfeld, the jig is up in November

eom

[leesa]

28. This is why military people should never be Presidents. They work

within the military-industrial complex but they never understand the workings of it. The brainwashing they endure in order to become good warriors doesn't allow them to realize that it's just a money making venture without any noble intent. There was no reason to invade Afghanistan, except to install the puppet government so they could establish a recognized government (the Taliban was not) and get the gas pipeline rights. They only needed Kabul for that. It had NOTHING to do with 9-11. All in all, Afghanistan was a total waste because China and India teamed up to corner the market anyway so the trans-Afghan pipeline has been reduced to irrelevancy anyway.

[FoxOnTheRun]

29. Don't forget the opium

and installing a Central Bank

[lumpy]

30. A responsible US Congress, if we had one,

would demand Rumsfeld, bush and Cheney step down immediately.