I-Team: Military to scrap $32 million worth of planes in Hondo

[WhiteTara]

this smells very bad. Some serious DU research needs to go into this one.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA091106.iteamplanes.KENS.8ecd6dd6.html

On Tuesday, the military will start destroying $32 million worth of planes sitting in storage in Hondo.

"We've looked at all the options. This is the best option. This option costs the government no money," said David Smith, communications chief for the Air Education Training Command.

Unless one counts the $60 million taxpayers originally paid for these 110 T3a Firefly planes parked at Hondo. The fleet was left to sit for nine years, after three fatal crashes at the Air Force Academy, despite numerous efforts to buy them.
snip
The government's surplus department said they don't know anything about the T3a firefly.

Meanwhile, the Air Force is starting a new pilot training program, using an independent contractor — and their planes.

[MadMaddie]

1. Using an independent contractor and their planes.....

that says it all......

[Canuckistanian]

2. Here's the plane

[tech3149]

3. Looks like my 4*40 except for the nose wheel

Who in the world would believe that the scrap value would be worth more than a functional aircraft?

[Canuckistanian]

6. They're used as trainers all over the world

And are also aerobatic capable.

[OneBlueSky]

4. here's an idea . . . strip them of anything that might compromise . . .

military security and sell them off for scrap . . . instead of paying the costs of destroying them, they'd realize a modest income -- which this government can certainly use . . .

[sgsmith]

5. More info

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/t-3.htm

The Airforce took this plane out of service in 1997, after 3 accidents killed 6 people. There were also significant number of in-flight engine stoppages, which isn't a good thing when you're in the air. The civilian run pilot training program has been in place since 1998.

[catnhatnh]

7. Of course 9 years ago....

ballistic parachutes were in their infancy.How about a retrofit with modern units and returning the fleet to service?

[Javaman]

8. Stop that, no thinking allowed. nt.

[donsu]

9. it will cost a lot of money to take them apart and who gets the scrap

money?

[catnhatnh]

10. Scrap value is on the whole....

...inversely proportional to the amount of manufacturing and technology input. Think "computer chip"-less than a fraction of a cents worth of silicon (sand) and microscopic amounts of conductive metals...yet the newest units in a fresh computer often exceeds $500 in cost. The costs are all R&D and the rigors of manufacturing, plus the amortization of the production hardware and equipment.
Now with these planes you are talking approximately 60 million in acquisition costs and a current booked value of 32 million-a purchase price of 600 thousand dollars, in 1997 dollars, against a high amortization cost against-get this- an extremely lightly used capital investment that is currently perfectly usable.
With 3 similar crashes and 6 fatalities there had to be a major investigation following the grounding of an ENTIRE fleet-so what did they find???There are truly only two possibilities. Either a design flaw that caused the accidents or a simple coincidence of human errors. If A. it should be correctable or actionable against the manufacturer. If B. there was never a need to keep them grounded.
In terms of scrap value we are talking probably less than 2000lbs and certainly no more than 2500lbs of total scrap per unit.Most of this will be aluminum.When I last worked scrap 6061 grade (aircraft aluminum) brought in no more than .26 per pound WHEN segregated (ie:contaminants like engines, wiring, electronics, rubber, upholstery, etc removed if you are scrapping an airplane) in 1990...So let us go wild and assume the value has tripled or better still imagine it soared to a buck a pound-so as real scrap these planes are worth maybe $1500 for the largest "recyclable" material.In real life they are worth quite a bit more...
Any airworthy motor with logs is worth over $10K dollars-the units in question could easily fetch over 25...Avionics and gauges...Hmm easily again 10K...Spares, again assuming the frame to be chowed...Retractible landing gear and related systems,canopies,wiring harnesses,hydraulics,control pedals,sticks cables,flaps aerilons,rudders, control tabs ,etc,etc,etc,....at least another 15K.Plus the $1500 for the 6061 aluminum.So MINIMUM residual value AS JUNK is probably over 50 K per unit or over 5 million that they plan to "destroy" because "This option costs the government nothing"...
There are both sicknesses and sadnesses here.Part of the back story was an article this week on the Air Forces need to scale back on personnel.They are currently outsourcing this primary flight training to contractors and have no interest in reinstituting this function into their budgets EVEN IF THE PLANES ARE SOUND because they would then require flight instructors and maintenance personnel and support personnel for these 100 plus planes-and under the current regime it is more popular to outsource.The related sadness here is the loss of the REAL instructor (ie:service instructor) experience that was a common bonding experience for all the "Top Guns"-that cynicism that came from flying a glorified Cessna under the eyes of a pro. They will instead be taught by civilians trained to "give some slack" to any paying customer.
Another sadness is that those instructor slots went to the most experienced of fighter pilots-who will instead be held in flight readiness or combat status-and the sickness is that like a daily stropping of a razor,they can be abraded away to a worthless stub-in spite of their protestations from instructor pilots of students causing "near death experiences" they had a tour well away from the daily confrontation of true sudden death,subject only to how far they let a trainee venture into a mistake-after a tour of multi-mach complex fighters they were given a tour in what was for them,essentially a tour on tricycles-a refreshing break from a harder two wheel world.
And now a final sadness and Sickness. Next week, over 100 beautiful birds fully capable of the soaring, swooping and skybourne swirls that man has pined for ten thousand years and that for EACH plane there are a thousand men who would give a testicle or their worldly fortune to own or fly-those machines of dreams-heirs to the surplus Jennies that built the aviation industry of this nation will be crushed for junk,because "it won't cost anything". And the sickness is that the management of our Air Force believes this...

On Edit-I see the gear is not retractible-other than that I stand by my estimates of the part out vs: scrap value estimate...

[benEzra]

11. Wish they'd sell 'em off as surplus (n/t)