AP: Study finds majority of Bible courses not academic

[Ilsa]

And they wanted us to believe that ministers teaching these classes would be neutral and secular. They CAN'T be neutral, and most of the time, they admit it up front.

http://www.caller.com/ccct/state_texas_news/article/0,1641,CCCT_876_4988473,00.html

Study finds majority of Bible courses not academic

By The Associated Press
September 12, 2006

AUSTIN- The majority of Bible courses being offered as electives at Texas high schools are devotional and sectarian in their approach and do not teach about the Bible in a historical or literary context as required under state law a new study has found, according to a published report.

The San Antonio Express-News reported in a story on its Web site Tuesday that the yearlong study by the Texas Freedom Network found that in most instances the courses fail to meet minimal academic standards for teacher qualifications, curriculum and academic rigor.

The majority of the courses promote one faith perspective over all others and push an ideological agenda that is hostile to religious freedom, science and public education, according to the 76-page report to be released Wednesday.

The Texas Freedom Network surveyed the more than 1,000 school districts in the state to determine which offered Bible electives. Mark Chancey, a biblical studies professor at Southern Methodist University, then analyzed the curriculums, going back five years, from 25 districts, about 3 percent of the total, that offered them as electives in 2005-2006.

SNIP

[Warpy]

1. By and for believers

If a high school kid wants the bible taught from literary and historical perspectives, he'll have to go to college to find it.

This is just indoctrination, as it was always meant to be.

[enlightenment]

10. Would that that were true -- but college doesn't necessarily offer relief

I signed on for a grad level "Bible as Literature" course a couple of years ago, just for chuckles -- it was anything but funny.

I knew we were in trouble on day two, when the professor dismissed any comparison of the flood narrative and Gilgamesh as "not relevant."

I spent the semester arguing with him over literary versus literal interpretation and reminding him that overt preaching (he would read long passages and then say something like "truly, only god could have inspired such beautiful words . . .") was completely unacceptable.

I'm 48 and not easily intimidated by teachers (since I also teach college) and I had no stake in the grade or my performance -- but the same can't be said for most students, and their reticence (or fear of a poor grade) allows this kind of crap to continue unabated. The department chair, btw, was sympathetic and promised to "talk" to the guy; hopefully, he "talked" to him about retiring.

[eallen]

2. Most preachers don't have the background to teach about the Bible...

From a historical or academic perspective. That is not part of their role, and it is not part of how they get to their position.

[displacedtexan]

3. I have an undergrad minor in Religion from TCU.

Even at Texas Christian University, the undergrad Religion classes were
history-based.

[LostinVA]

5. I went to a Methodist college, and they were there, too

[Lydia Leftcoast]

21. They were history and textual criticism based at the Lutheran college

that I attended, too.

In fact, the historical/critical approach is standard at the seminaries of all the mainline denominations.

However, a lot of the fundie ministers are "self-ordained" and preach whatever they feel like.

[deadparrot]

4. In other news, water is wet.

:D

[Recursion]

6. Is this really what high school students need?

The bible is a notoriously difficult text to study and requires a history, linguistics, and religious history background that a high school student simply cannot be expected to master.

Oh, and as I've often said, if fundies would push for calculus and chemistry as hard as they push for prayer and the bible, we wouldn't be producing fewer engineers per year than Mexico is.

(No slight intended to Mexico; I just think we should be producing more engineers every year than they are.)

[AlanAdam]

14. Not true ...

Regarding your opinion that Bible study is partially to blame for low numbers of U.S. engineering graduates: engineering degrees are difficult to get, and Americans are lazy. No other explanation is needed. I have a degree in Chem Engg, and am pursuing a second degree in Elect Engg. I know from experience.

[Recursion]

15. Yes, I'm pursuing an EE degree also

I agree it is difficult, but I also think students are simply not required to take enough math and science in high school (not to mention reading, writing, and music).

And I didn't mean that bible classes are the problem, I was complaining that parents will get all up in arms about sex ed or prayer or a bible class, when I think these same parents should spend that energy demanding better pay to attract more math and science teachers (and history, English, etc.) and demanding better academic curricula. I just want to see "Let Johnny Pray" signs replaced with "Teach Johnny Differentiation" signs.

[AlanAdam]

17. Hello Fellow EE Student ...

Am busy, will write efficiently. Good to here from a fellow EE student. Where do you study and how far along are you? I am at Wichita State U, junior year. Best wishes to you. Now that pleasantries have been exchanged, I still must respectfully disagree. IMHO, Bible classes won't siphon off what little study time student now have. Bible classes will just be one more course that students neglect. The problem is much closer to being American Idol, not Bible study classes. Most of my fellow EE students are from Asia and African countries. The bottom line is that they are just much more motivated to devote time to study than are American students. If we don't honestly admit to the cause of the problem, we won't work towards the appropriate solution. Again, just my humble opinion. Best wishes to you in your studies from Wichita.

[VegasWolf]

26. Good luck to you also! As a person who studied EE and CS many

years ago, had a great career, and is now retired, I wish you all the best. Hard work and study make all the difference.

[charlottelouise]

18. High school math & science

It's depressing. I'm on my university's admission committee, and we're constantly seeing applications from students who want to be engineers or go to medical school -- but there's only the bare minimum required math and science on their transcripts. I really hate the idea of stepping on peoples' dreams, but C grades in a minimal number of math & science classes in high school pretty much close you off from those career fields. I agree, too with the later poster who blames "American Idol" -- thsoe same transcrips without the math & science are filled with crap such as band, early childhood education and the like.

edited to fix typos

[fidgeting wildly]

20. "crap such as band."

You had me up until that.

I agree with you about American students' woeful indifference toward math & science, but a better education in these areas does not need to and should never come at the expense of band, orchestra, music, choir, art, or whatever "creative" electives the students wish to study. Why is "crap such as band" always first on the chopping block?

[Ilsa]

23. ITA. Music helps young minds learn to focus better and

helps train the mind for more difficult math work, IMO. How many computer engineering grads do you know with a strong background in music? Lots, I bet.

[VegasWolf]

27. Exactly, musicians inherently understand the concepts of mathematical

algorithms.

[Ilsa]

24. A friend of mind who visits here regularly has mentioned how

many of his students in north east Texas have NO interest in math or science or their related fields. They are very fundamentally religious, and he is a liberal, a history teacher, and he is trying to get them to think critically about political science, etc. Anyway, they are only interested in Humanities, not engineering or science. I think they have been directed away from it with subtle comments from parents and ministers who want to create a bias. They don't want them to understand, because then they may not carry on their ignorant legacy.

[Recursion]

25. Math and science tend to overcome fundy-ism

Because both stress fact and provability. Similarly, engineering stresses practicality and compromise. There are plenty of religious engineers but few fundamentalists. You can't just say whatever the hell you want and have people agree with you; the bridge actually has to stay standing.

[VegasWolf]

28. Overcome or overwhelm fundie thought processes?

:toast:

[noonwitch]

7. That's unfortunate, because my high school did a good job in that regard

I grew up in a very religious community, and our school did cross some lines, but not in that area. The Bible as Lit class kept it at the literary level.

My school crossed some other lines, though, especially when I was in elementary school.

[Igel]

8. Link to the study

http://www.tfn.org/religiousfreedom/biblecurriculum/texascourses/

[Ilsa]

12. Thank you! I didn't go back to the San Antonio paper for the direct

link to the study. It is always best to have the direct link for controversial issues.

[gaspee]

9. At the risk of sounding

old, I have one thing to say and that's, "No shit, Sherlock."

[gratuitous]

11. As for me, I'm shocked, shocked! I tell you

Why, it would seem that those evangelical pastors and their followers were just selling a line when what they really wanted to do was indoctrinate, not teach! That's surely against one of the Big Ten, isn't it? Goodness, I'm just . . . shocked.

Today is Opposite Day, isn't it? Tell me "no," so I'll know for sure.

[Ilsa]

13. It's more proof that these people with an agenda are liars. nt

[Bill McBlueState]

16. Here's what I don't understand

*The Christian scriptures contain a direct admonition from God not to lie.
*According to Christian theology, the Christian message is the greatest message offered to humanity.

If Christians aren't supposed to lie, and the message of Christianity is direct from God's lips, why are Christians so damned sneaky when they propagate their message? In college, the Christian groups would always have bake sales, pizza giveaways, and all sorts of tactics designed to rope in hungry, unsuspecting undergrads. And then we have these pastors sneaking their private beliefs into suuposedly secular Bible classes. If their message is so great, why not be upfront about it?

[Solly Mack]

19. Excuse me while I DUH

The agenda of zealots who want to merge their religious teachings with public education is never to broaden knowledge through a comparative study of all religions, the history of all religions, or a study of literary styles in biblical/religious story-telling...it is ALWAYS to proselytize. Always to indoctrinate. Always to impose their religion on others.

They have no other motive.

[depakid]

22. "devotional and sectarian" Big surprise

These folks aren't interested in learning about theology- it's all about promoting their narrow (and dysfunctional) version of protestant evangelism.