Imams told to preach in English

[Henny Penny]

By Alyssa Braithwaite

September 16, 2006 04:50pm
Article from: AAP


AUSTRALIA'S Islamic clerics have been told they must draw on the teachings of Islam to condemn terrorism, and preach in English.

The federal Parliamentary Secretary for Immigration and Multicultural Affairs Andrew Robb today called on more than 100 Australian imams and Muslim leaders attending a government-sponsored conference to denounce extremist misrepresentations of Islam.

“We live in a world of global terrorism where vile acts are regularly being perpetrated in the name of your faith,” Mr Robb told the two-day conference which started today.

“Because it is your faith that is being invoked as justification for these evil acts, it is your problem."

************

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20423436-1702,00.html


Next they'll be asked to register and submit their sermons to a party official for approval...

Germany circa 1933 anyone???

[silverojo]

1. Maybe they just want Aussie Muslims to condemn violent Muslims

...for a change. I'm Irish, but I condemn the actions of the IRA. It doesn't hurt to condemn violence...really!

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dogmudgeon]

6. ???

Could you explain that a little? It's a puzzling remark, but you obviously feel strongly about the issue underlying it.

--p!

[Igel]

11. If you condemn repubs,

are you admitting responsbility for them?

Or merely making clear that you don't agree with them, lest somebody think--perhaps because you're in the same country--that you are in agreement with them?

[Henny Penny]

3. The point is that an entire religion is expected to carry the can

for the actions of a minority.

As for your point that "it doesn't hurt to condemn violence...really! I direct your attention to these paragraphs taken from the same article.

************

"But conference keynote speaker SheikIbrahim Mogra from the Muslim Council of Britain said Muslim leaders and the Government had a shared responsibility to denounce terrorism.

“We as imams and Muslim leaders have to shout out loud as loudly as we can that terrorism has no room in Islam, it is the exact opposite of what Islam stands for,” Sheik Mogra said.

“At the same time the politicians should hear our voice.

“I have been very, very disappointed ... when the acknowledgment is not there that we are condemning the violence. It's as if we are not being heard.”

[Igel]

13. But it rings hollow.

In the aftermath of the 7/7 bombings, they sent in investigators. Nobody at the mosque that some of the guys were recruited at had any idea how they were radicalized. They didn't admit that a certain travelling imam had been there, as suspected.

Then they sent in somebody who appeared to be "one of them". Not only of the right skin color--as previous investigators--but a mosque attendee. Over the course of a couple of months he found that almost everybody knew that the imam had been there. Many had attended his lectures, which they were supportive of and found to be 'strong' and 'fiery'. Including the regular imam of the mosque.

They told a "Muslim like themselves"; they didn't tell the outsider Muslims.

The damned *imam* was in the know and lied, point blank, to investigators. "Islam is a religion of peace" versus "he preached a strong, fiery Islam", depending on the audience. The mosque aided and abetted the preachers of hate and violence, supported them to its followers and condemned them to outsiders.

[demosincebirth]

10. See what you done, now? We never condemn muslim violence here

I'm Catholic and I've always condemned the terrorism of the IRA or any other violence that kills innocent human beings, but it seems that terrorism by muslims gets a pass, some how.

[izzie]

4. That sure is odd.

I would think the State would have some control over a public school if these schools are paid for by tax. But in Church school I would think they could say anything they like unless it was to over throw the govt. I am looking at it as an Am. I do not know their laws but guess they can do this if they are doing it.

[intaglio]

5. This will get the Muslims really angry

The teachings of the Prophet HAVE to be in the language of the Koran ie arabic. You can use a closely related tongue (pashtu or turkish0 but not english FFS

[Dogmudgeon]

7. Indeed, it's ignorant

It could also be a "teaching moment" for Australia's Muslims. Most people in the English-speaking world have just about no understanding of Islam outside of what the media and our macho A-Rabb fighters say.

When they DO get a platform to speak, most of the Imams, world wide, are remarkably cool-headed and intelligent about addressing these issues.

--p!

[PsychoDad]

9. Actually

Hadeeth states that the native language should be used when there are those present who don't know Arabic. Indeed, the Prophet (saw) sent word to the early persian converts that the use of their native tongue was permissible for reading the Quran and prayers until they may learn Arabic.

The reason for the desire for having as many Muslims as possible learn Arabic was in order to prevent any mistranslation and misinterpretation of the text by those who wished to deceive. If you could read the text of the revelation for yourself then it was less likely that you would be led astray.

In practice, The Quran and Hadeeth are often quoted in the original Arabic then translated, with the rest of the sermon given in the native tongue. In many Mosques I have attended there are many native Arabic speakers who are in the country as students, in which case both Arabic and English are used.

Peace.

[intaglio]

20. My error

I was quoting something told to me by a convert; my bad

[Igel]

14. Pashtu and Turkish are no more related to Arabic than

English is. Literally: Pashtu and English are Indo-European; Turkish and other Turkic languages are presumably, like Indo-European, descended from Nostratic (one theory holds).

Semitic gets pitched in later. Don't confuse the writing system with the language. Turkish used to be written in Kufic ('Arabic' script). Now it's in Roman. Hebrew scholars at times under Islam were welcome, but forbidden to write Arabic in Arabic script (one particular nook of shari'a); so they wrote Arabic using the Hebrew alphabet. It didn't make Arabic less Arabic.

The prayers have to be in Arabic. The reading of the Qur'an has to be in Arabic. But if you don't speak Arabic, you get your reward for hearing without understanding, but you don't get knowledge. For that reason the imams are supposed to paraphrase the passages into languages that are understood by hoi polloi.

It was the same in Catholic churches for many centuries: the scriptures were in Latin, with ad hoc translations by the preachers for the congregation. Then they formally approved an English-language translation, the Bishop's Bible.

It will get the Muslims angry, not because of a language issue, but an uppity-non-Muslim issue. The inferior breed shouldn't tell the best nation what to do.

[melnjones]

21. excellent grammatical use of "hoi polloi"...

My Greek prof would be very proud of you!

[LeighAnn]

22. Spies need to be able to understand

They don't have enough Arabic translators to sit in on these things

[DemExpat]

8. This doesn't appear to help combat radical Islamic preachings in Holland..

There have also been government campaigns to have Mosques preach in Dutch.......


http://www.ad.nl/binnenland/article389411.ece

Dutch language helps Muslims radicalise.
Radical Muslims are spreading their ideology more often in Dutch. That is how they can reach assimilated Muslims who don't speak Arabic. The risk that they radicalise is also bigger. That is what the Minister Remkes of Internal Affairs wrote in their periodic report about fighting terrorism. 07-06-2006

DemEx

[bemildred]

12. What an ignorant moron. nt

[MrPrax]

15. Pack of Racists...

Just curious -- which religion is this asshole and when will he be denouncing it's violence ...




Good thing their religious creed is in English...




Singling out specific 'ethnic' groups to make PUBLIC loyality declarations is NOT equality and it NOT freedom and is EXACTLY the type of shit the Nazis did...

Why?

The Nazis were effective because they were able to tell people that:
Jews were behind the violence in Germany
Jews were behind the 'treasonous' Treaty of Versailles
Jews were had contacts among the enemies and they worked with them to undermine Germany
Jews followed the Protocols of Zion and that WAS their 'religion'!

--the solution to the problem!

A final one!!

Once the Nazis could plant the 'lies' about Jews and their RELIGION by making shit up, then it became MUCH easier to have people figure out that effectively controlling and eliminating the Jews would solve a lot of problems...

Dictators in Latin America do this same trick with human rights workers and indigeous people -- the country isn't prosperous because the uneducated 'indian' or the MaryKnoll nun is holding back progress, causing strife and rejecting the values of God, the Church and National Destiny.

Once you get people thinking this shit -- then the 'final' solution to the problem becomes inevitable possibility.

[zanne]

25. They remind me of us. nt

[thecrow]

16. Next it will be the Catholics can't speak Latin anymore n/t

[bemildred]

17. Jews told not to speak Hebrew ... nt

[stepnw1f]

18. Exactly. Bigotry is bigotry...

funny how some on DU look for "exceptions" to a particular religion. Talk about bullshitting.....

[VegasWolf]

19. and gays can't shop at Pottery Barn. nt

[LeighAnn]

23. Yeah and Latin American's can't speak Latin

Dan Quayle: "I wish I spoke Latin so I could talk to all the Latin Americans"

[CJCRANE]

24. I agree with the suggestion

but not the tone in which it was made.

Imams preaching in Arabic to a congregation that doesn't understand is no better than the medieval church. It should be possible to say the prayers in Arabic but the sermons in English.

[leesa]

26. Can you imagine the Catholic Church being ordered to stop all Latin

in their religious services and to be forced to condemn bombing and terrorizing abortion clinics and anti-Muslim wars waged by oil hungry nations?