Ex-FBI Agent: Harsh Interrogation Doesn't Work

[sabra]

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=2452777

Ex-FBI Agent: Harsh Interrogation Doesn't Work
ABC News Consultant Jack Cloonan Says Aggressive Interrogation Isn't Always the Most Effective Method


Sept. 16, 2006 — Amid a debate between President Bush and bipartisan members of Congress over how harshly to question terror detainees, a former FBI agent said some of the most aggressive interrogation techniques in dispute are rarely effective anyway.

"Generally speaking, those don't work," said Jack Cloonan, a former FBI agent and an ABC News consultant.

"I think water boarding is one we've all heard about, and I think the public understands what the term means," Cloonan told Bill Weir on ABC News' "Good Morning America Weekend." "We sort of fake drown somebody."

...

Cloonan said there are more fruitful practices.

...

Because those being interrogated expect to be tortured, they're caught off guard by non-violent approaches, and often release information more easily, Cloonan said.

[Jackpine Radical]

1. As I commented elsewhere, torture is of course useless

for extracting useful information in an interrogation. Everybody knows that. Under torture, people will tell you whatever they think you want to hear so you will stop torturing them.

Even George Bush probably knows that.

So why do these people want to be able to torture their victims? Why is it important to them to have this useless interrogation method at their disposal?

Because, while torture is of no value in getting people to tell you things, it still does have some use. In particular, it is a wonderful way of terrorizing folks. You'll think twice before you mess with people who have a reputation for pulling out fingernails and wiring your nipples to little crank generators.

Torture isn't about getting information out of people. It's about instituting a reign of terror.

[VegasWolf]

2. That sounds about right. If so, Hitler had nothing over on Bush. nt

[Solon]

4. So true, it has to do with dominating people...

all Totalitarian Regimes have practiced torture to dissuade dissent. It has no legitmate purpose in our purported Democracy.

[Selteri]

8. Joan of Arc famously quoted -

You can torture me and I will admit to whatever you wish me to.
It will still not be truth and I will recant it when I am no longer under torture.

Roughly quoted there, but something said around 400 years ago.

[Pachamama]

14. It's also probably pretty ineffective against people who are willing to...

...DIE FOR THEIR CAUSE, EVEN TO THE POINT THEY WOULD BE SUICIDE BOMBERS!

DUH!! :banghead:

Seriously, does anyone here actually believe that if they caught Osama Bin Ladin and he was planning some big attack that if they tortured him mercilessly that he would break????

NO WAY! OBL would probably be spitting at them and laughing (as he probably does daily) and telling them that he will die with anything he knows and the more painful it is the brighter the afterlife for him.

Torture's value to this administration has more to do with them intimidating the masses and control that way...the terrorists don't care.

[PerceptionManagement]

19. This is the thing I just don't get. Experts agree that it doesn't work.

So, why do we use it? Why don't we take the moral victory and brow-beat the rest of the world that uses it? It's just a bad, non-productive PR move. Talk about shooting your self in the foot..

[PerceptionManagement]

20. It's almost as if ChimpCo deliberately chooses the wrong policy and

intentionally screws up it's implementation. Think CPA, Katrina, Iraq, SS privatization, Tax Cuts, Pay for play (ie Abramoff), Afghanistan, Iran, North Korea, Pakistan, Enron (energy policy), Health Care, Prescription Drug, Stem Cell research, ANWAR, Domestic Spying, Torture, the integration of Church and State, Media Consolidation, Complete dismantling and removal of the "Fairness Doctrine", the "Powell Doctrine", Pre-emptive war, Global Warming, No Child Left Behind, Clear Skies, Ground Zero pollution to first responders, Port in-Secrurity...

There nothing these guys CAN'T fuck up. Pretty soon, ChimpCo will blame the Dems for invading Iraq and they'll probably get away with it too.

The thing is, a valid, logical argument could be made that ChimpCo is destroying America from within against the wishes of a majority of it's inhabitants. Furthermore, that ChimpCo's policies are harmful to 'most' Americans. Not 50.1%, but MOST Americans and Americans that have yet to be born. (Think 500 trillion dollars in debt and air & water unfit to consume.)

[roseBudd]

3. People admitted to being witches when tortured and gave up the names of

other witches when tortured. We now know this shameful part of our history was based on hysteria and that there were no witches with magical powers.

[Solon]

5. You do bring up a good point...

Think about this, the Inquisition wasn't about ferretting out Witches, but everything to do with maintianing control of the population, AND money. Who get's the lands of accused witches? The Church of course, so torture, used in that context, made sense, what better way to get free lands, than to force confessions?

[Jackpine Radical]

21. Yes, exactly. We're on the same page here.

[madrchsod]

6. the us army found that out in ww2

bush justs wants to have people tortured

[daleo]

7. And yet Dershowitz defended torture.

He even mused about torture warrents, to make it nice and legal.

[Jack Rabbit]

11. See my critique in post 10

!!

[AlCzervik]

9. if i were being tortured i'd lie my ass off to get them to stop

i bet most people would so they'd end up with a bunch of fairy stories i made up.

[Jack Rabbit]

12. Exactly

That is a major point in the critique of torture in post 10.

[Jack Rabbit]

10. Jack Rabbit (Democratic Underground): Why Torture Doesn't Work

From Democratic Underground
Dated March 11, 2004

Why Torture Doesn't Work
A Critique of Alan Dershowitz' Case for Torture
By Jack Rabbit

Alan Dershowitz, the renowned legal scholar and civil libertarian, has stirred up a small hornets nest since the September 11 attacks by talking openly about the possibilities of sanctioning torture in America. Dershowitz feels it is incumbent on him to lead a discussion on a choice he feels is unpleasant but necessary.

Torture is regarded by progressive civil libertarians as an abomination that every civilized nation should outlaw. Modern international humanitarian law categorically prohibits its use. The Rome Statute classifies torture as a crime against humanity, the Third Geneva Convention (1949; Aritcles 3, 17, 87 and 130) prohibits its use against prisoners of war and the Fourth Geneva Convention (1949; Articles 3, 32 and 147) probhits it against civilians in situations of armed conflict. The United Nations Declaration of Human Rights (1948; Article 5) states unequivocally, "No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment." Gloss is put on these declarations concerning torture by the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (1984), to which the United States is a party . . . .

Alan Dershowitz, the renowned legal scholar and civil libertarian, has stirred up a small hornets nest since the September 11 attacks by talking openly about the possibilities of sanctioning torture in America. Dershowitz feels it is incumbent on him to lead a discussion on a choice he feels is unpleasant but necessary.

Torture is regarded by progressive civil libertarians as an abomination that every civilized nation should outlaw. Modern international humanitarian law categorically prohibits its use. The Rome Statute classifies torture as a crime against humanity, the Third Geneva Convention (1949; Aritcles 3, 17, 87 and 130) prohibits its use against prisoners of war and the Fourth Geneva Convention (1949; Articles 3, 32 and 147) probhits it against civilians in situations of armed conflict. The United Nations Declaration of Human Rights (1948; Article 5) states unequivocally, "No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment." Gloss is put on these declarations concerning torture by the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (1984), to which the United States is a party . . . .

(P)rogressive civil libertarians need not concede a single point to Dershowitz, let alone the supporters of Bush and Ashcroft. There are at least three problems with Dershowitz' case for torture, all of which are fatal.

Read more.

ON EDIT

I would like to take this opportunity to thank Professor Mark LeVine of UC Irvine for his kind words on this piece. Please click here.

[indepat]

13. But these techniques undoubtedly get the jollies up for many who like it

[War Pigs]

15. Bingo!!

[OneBlueSky]

16. this is yet another issue where simple common sense tells you . . .

the truth of the situation . . . you don't need a degree in military psycology or anything else to know that most people will say anything to stop being tortured . . .

this is similar to the thread a few posts back that said new registration rules and voting machines MAY cause difficulties come election day . . . well, "Duh!" . . .

in my mom's day, common sense was a highly valued personal attribute that trumped MA's and PhD's when it came to living one's life . . . whenever I put forth one of my youthful FOS (full-of-shit) opinions on something, Mom would always tell me to think about what I had just said and "use your God-given common sense" . . .

while I often ignored the advice then, it served me well as I grew older . . . and it makes more sense to me today than it ever has . . .

"Use your God-given common sense!" . . .

[NOLADEM]

17. They know, and don't care

This is revenge, pure and simple. They are taking out their anger on the detained.

The information gathering is a pre-text to provide vengeance for their small-dicked cowardly republican constituency whose instinct is to abuse, defile and destroy anything unlike them.

I am not saying that they are interrogating mother theresa, but their actions are indefensible, counterproductive, and harmful to the fight they claim to be waging.

These men are no different from the men that held McCain and others in the Hanoi Hilton. We have lost the moral credibility to lead with such tactics.

Fuck these war criminals.

[unblock]

18. you know what IS effective?

good cop/bad cop. have one guard THREATEN to torture, then have another guard stop him and "defend" the detainee. when the detainee is alone with the "good" cop, he might open up.

another trick is to have a guard or actor pretend to be another detainee. even to the point of having joint interrogations. then put them back in the same or nearby cells. that can REALLY catch a detainee off-guard.

but of course, these are way beyond the ken of people like shrub, and do nothing to establish a reign or terror....