Dalai Lama tells youths: War is outdated

[deadparrot]

DENVER - The Dalai Lama urged thousands of teenagers at a world peace conference Saturday to embrace globalization and accept people from all countries as neighbors and collaborators, not rivals.

"There are no national boundaries. The whole globe is becoming one body," he said at the PeaceJam convention. "In these circumstances, I think war is outdated ... Destruction of your neighbor is actually destruction of yourself."

War creates environmental problems, trade gaps and humanitarian suffering that everyone must bear, he said, speaking for more than an hour at the convention, which brought together 10 Nobel Peace Prize laureates. He won the honor in 1989.

PeaceJam participants — teens assembled from 31 countries — opened their first day of lectures and interactive sessions with laureates at the University of Denver.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/peacejam

[Lerkfish]

1. if only...

that would be very nice.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

2. That is the same thing Iran's president said in his interview with

Mike Wallace. If he can get it, why can't we?

[az chela]

7. we get it but unfortunately we have an evil government

ruling this country and terrorizing the rest of the world.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

8. When I said we, I meant our government as they are, unfortunately,

our representatives.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. The Dalai Lama is a true holy man.

Phony Christians like Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell aren't worthy to wash his floors.

[az chela]

4. This is the most positive thing I have read in a long time

Thank you to the dalai lama for the great words of wisdom.If only the world would listen!!!

[IndianaGreen]

5. His Holiness the Dalai Lama is so right, war is outdated

and we are all connected to one another (he wasn't speaking of neolib globalization).

[iverglas]

24. "His Holiness"?

You actually believe he is "holy" -- to the point that he embodies holiness, as that form of address suggests?

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/05/27/1022243311156.html

Curious, even disturbing, is the way so many non-Buddhist Australians blur the lines between respect, reverence and worship in their attitudes toward the Dalai Lama. Critical reflection on the man and his message hardly seems to figure in their estimation of him.

I doubt that you refer to Ratzinger as "His Holiness" in subject headers ...

But maybe you're a Tibetan Buddhist.

[gorbal]

40. I would treat the pope the same

And I am not particularily enamored of the current pontif. But when you respect a figure you respect not only that person, but their followers as well, so it is an important thing to consider.

[lvx35]

36. Yeah, that's really the heart of the teaching.

A oneness thatis much deeper.

[iverglas]

6. if only

the Dalai Lama had a brain. Instead of a collection of nasty prejudices against women and GLBT people, and a bunch of blithering hangers-on who act as if anything he says is worthy of being carved in stone tablets and are apparently unable to use their own brains.

War is outdated. Gosh, that was profound. Maybe he'll tell us which way up is next.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

9. Have you ever read anything he's written?

I didn't think so.

[iverglas]

19. haven't read anything most people have written

Can't think of why I'd waste my time with his.

http://www.gnxp.com/MT2/archives/002816.html
(cited only for the quoted passages re the individual in question, as a handy reference)

... the Dalai Lama has denounced abortion as a sin against "non-violence to all sentient beings," opposed contraception and criticized proponents of euthanasia - much as the pope has done. Although he has affirmed the dignity and rights of gays and lesbians, he has condemned homosexual acts as contrary to Buddhist ethics.
...
On abortion and homosexuality, which have deeply divided other religious faiths, the Dalai Lama said he believed life is sacred and abortion is wrong - though there may be special circumstances, such as saving the life of the mother, when it might be an option. He said nature arranged male and female organs "in such a manner that is very suitable... Same-sex organs cannot manage well." But he stopped short of condemning homosexual relationships altogether, saying if two people agree to enter a relationship that is not sexually abusive, "then I don't know. It's difficult to say."

Gee, sounds a lot like the pope, eh?

And the way those Buddhist monks behaved in Tibet before the downfall of the vicious feudal régime that he was part of was kinda like the way a lot of RC priests have behaved recently ... except a whole lot worse. Google it up.

Tibetan Buddhism is not a values-free system oriented around smiles and a warm heart. It is a religion with tough ethical underpinnings that sometimes get lost in translation. For example, the Dalai Lama explicitly condemns homosexuality, as well as all oral and anal sex. His stand is close to that of Pope John Paul II, something his Western followers find embarrassing and prefer to ignore. His American publisher even asked him to remove the injunctions against homosexuality from his book, "Ethics for the New Millennium," for fear they would offend American readers, and the Dalai Lama acquiesced.

Nah, doesn't sound like anything I'd be wanting to read. I'm not a moronic groupie; I have no problem at all doing my own thinking.

[lvx35]

37. An ascetic monk who doesn't back anal sex? AN OUTRAGE!

C'mon man, he's a MONK. They believing transcending all worldly pleasures. Of course he doesn't back anal sex or oral sex.

[iverglas]

47. well thanks, you've cleared it all up for me now

Funny how a monk who believes in transcending all worldly pleasures hasn't got around to condemning the heterosexual missionary position ...

[lvx35]

49. hehe. Hey man, that's the dalai lama's favorite position!

Don't knock it! ;)

[iverglas]

23. "Platitudes of the Dalai Lama"

(I only refer to him as that when I can't be bothered remembering what his name is, btw)

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/05/27/1022243311156.html

Take the Dalai Lama's answer to a question put to him at the National Press Club in Canberra on Friday about his views on euthanasia.

Like abortion, he said through an interpreter (thus choosing his words carefully), "these are very complex issues on which it is very difficult to make generalised statements because the individuality of each context would be so different that it is something that needs to be judged - the merits of its decision - based upon context by context".

You would get more enlightenment than this listening to Lisa tackle a moral dilemma in an episode of The Simpsons.

In fact many of the Dalai Lama's comments on international problems and their solutions - the sort of complex issues on which he is prepared to make generalised statements - tend towards the naivety of a primary school pupil at an end-of-year speech night. When children talk about the need for more caring and sharing in the world, adults smile knowingly - which is to say that we, unlike they, appreciate life's complexities. Ironically, when the Dalai Lama says the same thing, we call it wisdom and applaud.

I'd read the whole article. It isn't very long, but it probably says more worth reading than the DL has said in his lifetime.

[bhikkhu]

11. Yet in context, of course, he is correct.

But human nature has a nasty habit of acting against its best interests and ignoring wisdom...to the extent that you are probably correct as well - history repeats itself endlessly, and all prior proclamations of the end of war and ages of peace have only made their proclaimers ridiculous.

[teknomanzer]

44. Well that didn't take long...

there is always a detractor. In light of your criticism perhaps you would like to share with us what great words and deeds you have produced to improve our troubled world.

[iverglas]

46. why don't you go first?

there is always a detractor. In light of your criticism perhaps you would like to share with us what great words and deeds you have produced to improve our troubled world.

I'll go find something negative you have said about somebody (hmm, perhaps George W. Bush), and then you can tell me what wonderful things you have done to make the world a better place. If I'm not satisfied with them, then you will have to write "George W. Bush is a wonderful human being" on the blackboard 100 times -- and anyone who says that George W. Bush is in fact a wonderful human being will have won the debate by operation of your own law.

Heard of ad hominem argument, have ya? Ad feminam, in this case, but same deal.

The merits of anything said by Lhamo Thondup have precisely nothing to do with my noble or ignoble deeds (or the amount of beer I drink or don't drink), or with anyone else's. That's a pretty simple concept that most people, and I'd suspect even you, grasp.

Going with that, then, you could always feel free to challenge something I've said on its merits, rather than insinuating that I'm just a great big nobody (even though you know precisely fuck all about me) and therefore not worth listening to.

I'm sure that all the people who convey information and ideas like these are equally unworthy of your attention too.

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles9/Parenti_Tibet.htm

Whatever wrongs and new oppressions introduced by the Chinese in Tibet after 1959, they did abolish slavery and the serfdom system of unpaid labor. They eliminated the many crushing taxes, started work projects, and greatly reduced unemployment and beggary. They built the only hospitals that exist in the country, and established secular education, thereby breaking the educational monopoly of the monasteries. They constructed running water and electrical systems in Lhasa. They also put an end to floggings, mutilations, and amputations as a form of criminal punishment.

You need to read the whole thing, and a whole lot more. The word "Taliban" may come to mind as you do ... but I think you'll actually find that things were worse in Tibet under the Dalai Lama than they ever were in Afghanistan under the Taliban.

Still, the new order has its supporters. A 1999 story in the Washington Post notes that the Dalai Lama continues to be revered in Tibet, but

... few Tibetans would welcome a return of the corrupt aristocratic clans that fled with him in 1959 and that comprise the bulk of his advisers. Many Tibetan farmers, for example, have no interest in surrendering the land they gained during China's land reform to the clans. Tibet's former slaves say they, too, don't want their former masters to return to power.

"I've already lived that life once before," said Wangchuk, a 67-year-old former slave who was wearing his best clothes for his yearly pilgrimage to Shigatse, one of the holiest sites of Tibetan Buddhism. He said he worshipped the Dalai Lama, but added, "I may not be free under Chinese communism, but I am better off than when I was a slave."

Sure, these days he claims to be "half-Marxist, half-Buddhist" (and how many of the fawning members of the Vancouver Board of Trade who attended his recent lecture either know this or sincerely give a shit about anything he says?). So now that power and privilege has been ripped away from the religious/political elite, he has accepted reality. Good on him.

He and his govt in exile have nice plans for how the govt of an independent Tibet will be formed:
http://www.tibet.com/future.html
and they appear to leave him out of any formal role in government. Good again. But one can hardly be surprised that many ordinary Tibetans are not eager to have him or any of the old religious/political ruling class back in any capacity at all.

And how anyone can ascribe any moral authority to a man who presided over slavery, systematic sexual abuse, torture, and the pure corruption that was the "government" of Tibet when he was in charge, I just don't know.

Maybe he's not to blame because he was just a simple peasant child used as the figurehead for it all. Well, that is still just not a ringing endorsement of his intelligence or wisdom or moral authority. Sorry, eh?

[teknomanzer]

48. Yes that was insulting for that I apologize...

I am provoked by responses against a human being (and it is becoming quite clear to me these days that there are no umblemished beings, no perfect saintly ones by human definitions of sainthood or goodliness) who calls for and end to the mindlessness of organized mass slaughter and wholesale destruction in the name of picking up a few more worldly goods for the insanely wealthy. If Ol' GW was to come and and say "War is outdated," my response would be good on him, but seeing as how he is doing the oposite and in fact recently promoting violations of human rights in the name of a war against an abstract concept I can't seem to bring myself to give him any kudos.

So for they record... two imperfect human beings utter these suggestions...

"Lets quit killing each other, its kind of stupid given the fact that the world is becoming an increasingly smaller place."

and

"Lets torture people we have detained indefinitely and then use the tortured confession against them in court while denying them any ability to provide for their own defense."

Which statement should I be critical of.

[cigsandcoffee]

10. It sounds like this clown in a dress is for outsourcing.

"There are no national boundaries. The whole globe is becoming one body,"

McDonalds, Halliburton, Wal-Mart, and Coca-Cola would love this. Is he on their payroll or something?

[IndianaGreen]

12. He wasn't speaking of neolib globalization

He was speaking of people being joined to each other on a global scale, not McDonald's.

[cigsandcoffee]

13. He thinks McDonalds or Disney will stop in the background?

Yeah, Right. If the people of the world become one, then so does their commerce.

[JI7]

14. that's only true if you think unity is based on mcdonalds and disney

[cigsandcoffee]

15. Not what I'm saying at all.

Where unity exists, Disney, Wal-Mart and Exxon will follow.

[JI7]

18. no, Disney, WalMart, Exxon usually come by when there is division

they force people to move from land causing hatred and anger among people. rarely do those companies come by as a result of peaceful unity of the people.

[cigsandcoffee]

22. There aren't many Starbucks or Ikeas in war zones.

But there are heaps of them in peaceful cities. I'm sorry, but you're off base on this one.

One globe, one world - corporations everywhere. Sure, the weapons industry would have to adjust or change, but I'm sure they could find something else to exploit in no time.

[JI7]

26. it's not a bad thing if people want them

corporations in itself is not a bad thing. there is a huge difference between Starbucks opening up somewhere because people would want to go there and someone sees it as a business opportunity in an open space and Exxon forcing people to move and harming them so they can drill in their land.

[cigsandcoffee]

34. But that's essentially neocon globalization.

I often hear the argument that other cultures would embrace Western goods and lifestyles if given the chance. Don't we risk Westernizing the world?

[JI7]

35. it's not a bad thing

depends on what you mean by "westernizing". i don't think it's a bad thing if someone opens up a starbucks in another part of the world because it's what the people there will like.

india sends out movies and music around the world and it's not called "indonizong or spreading hinduism".

[KittyWampus]

41. You don't think there's a Starbucks or McDonalds In Iraq's Green Zone?

[cigsandcoffee]

42. You're missing the point.

Entirely.

[The2ndWheel]

51. But honestly

which globalization actually counts?

[iverglas]

20. actually no

We're not supposed to think about such mundane things. We should all just sit around and hum, and love one another (just not love each other if we happen to be the same sex, or exercise control over our bodies if we happen to be women who got pregnant from all that loving). Life will be wonderful. Wait and see.

It is a huge embarrassment to thinking Canadians that our government bestowed honourary citizenship on this individual.

[manic expression]

33. What are you talking about

are you seriously trying to insult people who admire this man? If so, you are more than misled and you would do well to pull your head out of the sand. As if one stance on one issue that is seldom brought up in relation to this (except by delusional and bitter people like yourself, that is) makes an impact that remotely approaches significance or relevance. Get a grip.

[qwertyMike]

16. Pope John XXIII

Said the same thing 20 years ago (Paraphrase) "War is an an anachronism"

Don't like religion, don't like Popes, but occasionally they make sense.

This German guy is an an anachronism.

[iverglas]

21. popes and lamas making sense

They surely do manage to suck in the kiddies, ya gotta give 'em that.

Stroke the little brats' egos, tell 'em they are the future blah blah, say the things they want to hear (and that coincidentally don't demand any hard work, like giving up their massively obscene consumption habits), and they'll be setting up anti-choice clubs in their schools and wasting their time humming about world peace instead of thinking, or doing anything that might actually improve the world.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

17. I think he's right....

If it weren't for the "assholes" that Plaid Adder has written about, we might have a chance of beating it.

[stepnw1f]

25. He is Right... We Are All Connected

It is more apparent today than it ever has been due to global population numbers. The fact that some still ignore this, is truly sickening. They kill and we create.

[sofa king]

27. It may be outdated, but there's a lot of bad fashion out there right now.

[kineneb]

28. "Last night I had the strangest dream,

I'd ever dreamed before.
I dreamed the world had all agreed
To put an end to war."

-Ed McCurdy, 1950

The Dalai Lama is merely stating what many have been thinking. And the globalization he speaks of is a globalization of tolerance and caring. We are all on this one lonely planet together.

[sam sarrha]

29. i recognize the Fact that some are nasty by habit of ignorance, not nature

His Holiness is a title.. you apparently haven't arrived to understand his message, maybe less beer or seeking recognition of an ego identity would help.. but we all have to start where we are. Buddhism isn't a religion. The Dalai Lama describes himself as a simple monk, he is an old man from a different era, as for abortion he can only see the death of a sentient being, and the compassion for the suffering of the one that had to make the decision to have the abortion. the 8 Fold Path is not a commandment, they suggestions. we all have the choice to do what ever we want. he only has compassion for all beings, he has taken the vow of the Bodhisattva, to help others reach enligtenment and not to enter nirvana until all other sentient beings are enlightened.. he will be the last off the planet. he will follow you. there is probably not another person in this world as compassionate as he is.. reguardless of what others do.

here is a quote From His Holiness the 14th reincarnation of Chenrezig

'A negative thought continues and increases exponentially until replaced by a positive thought, however the positive thought must be Cultivated.'

everything you said was exponentially more negative.. i know you are seeking happiness through cynicism.. but that is an unskillful means.. it makes you unhappy and those around you.. i wouldn't want you at my party... maybe some day you will find the motovation to meditate and find the skillful means to seek a positive path

[Blue_Tires]

31. well said n/t

[iverglas]

45. gee, could it be moi you're addressing?

His Holiness is a title.. you apparently haven't arrived to understand his message, maybe less beer or seeking recognition of an ego identity would help.. but we all have to start where we are.

I'm the one who questioned the use of the title by someone who, I am quite sure, does not regard anyone anywhere as "holy". I wonder how "his holiness" regards hypocrisy?

Start where I am? Well me, I'm not an illiterate child, that's where I am, and I can read nonsensical platitudes like "his holiness" spouts and see them for the nonsensical platitudes they are. I guess that's starting where I am, so it must be good.

here is a quote From His Holiness the 14th reincarnation of Chenrezig
'A negative thought continues and increases exponentially until replaced by a positive thought, however the positive thought must be Cultivated.'

Now let's see that in plain English, shall we?

Think positive.

Gosh. What a novel notion.

Am I actually addressing someone who believes that this man is the 14th reincarnation of something? Lordy; I never actually expected to have the, uh, pleasure.

Don't mistake me. As far as I'm concerned, you can believe whatever you like. The earth is flat, things fall up ... I don't care at all. I have no desire to dispute anyone's beliefs, and I will not initiate any denigration of those beliefs, be they the basic belief in sky faeries or any of the weird and wonderful beliefs that people manage to derive from that one. Everybody's beliefs are a matter of personal choice and nobody else's business at all -- and hey, on that I think I and "his holiness" are in agreement, eh?? I just expect people with beliefs I don't hold not to expect me to fall over myself revering someone who has done nothing to deserve my reverence, even were I in the habit of revering people, which I'm not.

i know you are seeking happiness through cynicism..

I'm sure you know all sorts of neat stuff. Maybe you should stick to spouting stuff that you actually know, and not directing rude remarks to strangers whom you have not the slightest basis for patronizing, and about whom you in fact know nothing at all. Condescension in the mouths of the non-superior just looks silly. And accusations of the over-drinking of beer make the accuser just look nasty and very unoriginal.

i wouldn't want you at my party...

My my. I'm deeply wounded. WWHHTDLS, though? I suspect that he's say exactly what I would: that your entire post is nothing but a baseless and nasty series of insults directed at someone you don't know, and accomplishing nothing except making yourself look ignorant and rude.



http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=bb6b2bbc-4403-453d-bbcd-72f9e061ec26&k=80899

"When we grow up, when our brain develops, then our intelligence causes shortsightedness. ..."

Words to live by, them.

[The Backlash Cometh]

30. I agree with the premise that war is outdated...

but the Kumbaya, embrace globalization is difficult. How do you really do that when every nation has their own way of condoning graft in order to get ahead?

[Odin2005]

32. "We must put an end to war or war will put an end to Mankind."

-JFK


Oh, and The Dalai Lama is saying "nationalism sucks," I highly doubt he supports the world being raped by the corporatists. Christ, sometimes I think many DUers are just as xenophobic as the Freeps the way some froth at the mouth when someone says "the nation-state is obsolete." :eyes:

[whirlygigspin]

38. you guys are too funny!

...at least the Dalai lama is more interesting to listen to than Ann Coulter. Judge for yourself--


Dalai lama speaking--streaming webcast:
http://www.dalailamacenter.org/multimedia/index.php


http://www.dalailama.com

[The2ndWheel]

50. Hopefully the nation-state is obsolete

The only problem being that in our reality of large scale systems and power structures, what is taking its place?

[Evoman]

39. Geez, I was saying this kind of stuff since I was three.

Why wasn't I ever considered a holy man?

Seriously, the Dalai lama is not any wiser than anybody here....he just spouts naive, nice-sounding platitudes, just like a kid, or a simple adult. The only reason we take him seriously is because he wears robes, and is bald. Well, I'm bald, and I can buy some robes....so here goes my wisdom:

We are all connected by compassion and justice, and divided by hate, war and injustice. The only way we can fulfill our destiny of oneness of being, is by embracing kindness and compassion. Oh yeah...and give ME BACK TIBET. I WANT TO CONTROL THE COUNTRY, RETURN THE PEOPLE OF TIBET BACK TO STARVING PHEASANTRY TO FEED THE RICH DALAI LAMA AND THE KINGLY PRIEST CASTE!

How quickly people trade in historical fact for meaningless fucking platitudes. The Dalai lama is another religious asshole that can fuck goat ass, as far as I'm concerned.

[NotGivingUp]

43. Destruction of your neighbor is actually destruction of yourself...

I agree wholeheartedly. Until we stop trying raise ourselves by stepping on somebody else, we will not have peace or happiness.