US denies plan for 'moat' around Baghdad

[Writer]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14847580/

BAGHDAD, Iraq - The U.S. military denied reports on Saturday that Iraq plans to dig a giant ring of trenches around the city of Baghdad.

Iraq’s Interior Ministry announced earlier this week that it plans to set up 28 checkpoints that would allow controlled access to the city, while closing off other roads as part of a security crackdown.

The New York Times quoted an Interior Ministry spokesman on Saturday as saying the Iraqis would also dig a giant trench around the city of seven million people.




(Have members of the Bush Administration been playing Dungeons & Dragons lately? :rofl:)

[WindRavenX]

1. wtf?

Is this for real?

Wow.

[htuttle]

2. Moat? What moat?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[struggle4progress]

21. Permanent bases? What permanent bases? High civilian casualty rate?

What high civilian casualty rate? Torture? What torture? Secret prisons? What secret prisons? Wiretapping? What wiretapping? ...

[grytpype]

3. Aw, I was looking foward to getting progress reports on the trench.

How many miles dug so far, etc.

There isn't enough good news coming out of Iraq. Thanks, liberal media!

[aquart]

4. LOL!

And how will that help with the death squads IN the city?

[HuffleClaw]

5. erm, BUSH himself mentioned the plan for a 'berm around baghdad'

i guess they are simply playing word games.

[truthisfreedom]

6. well, it's a metaphorical "trench." it's about 6" deep, so that terrorists

will trip and fall down when trying to walk into the city when avoiding the checkpoints.

[C_U_L8R]

7. no it's a flaming river of shit

but there will be drawbridges and dragons

[theanarch]

8. it seems the neo-con's Iraqi sock-puppets...

...wandered off-script; or perhaps they were on-script, until the pundits and comedians started making their snarky comments about the plan...either way, it's a stupid idea that wouldn't work, except to give Halliburton or Bechtel another no-bid, no-performance contract to not fulfill, while stuffing the pockets of stockholders and senior management.

[BrotherBuzz]

9. Maybe they really aren't planning to dig trenches...

Perhaps they intend to build berms and the resulting trenches will be a mere by-product. :shrug:

[bonito]

10. It was going to be a wishing well dam it.

[everythingsxen]

11. In all fairness...

Tactically speaking, given that the average attacks that are carried out are suicide bombers/car-bombs, a trench/moat isn't that bad an idea.

Moat vs. Wall

Construction
Moat = dig holes
Wall = import concrete set up scaffold etc. It takes a lot of time.
Winner = moat. It's fast and cheap.

Durability
Moat = since it's just a big hole, if a car-bomber/suicide bomber flings themselves into it and explode, it can't do any damage to the moat itself, since the moat is just a big hole to begin with. It also limits collateral damage.
Wall = while a wall can be reinforced heavily to withstand a car/truck ramming into it and exploding, the costs will be exorbitant and it isn't a guaranteed stop. The wall could break anyway and then you have large bits of wall falling on nearby neighborhoods.
Winner = Moat

Checkpoints/Entry
Moat = If it is a moat, just checkpoints are needed at the entry points. If it is a trench, then guards are needed to make sure enemy units are not inside the trench.
Wall = If it is a large wall, then guards can be posted along the roof walkways and will have good LOS on targets approaching.
Winner = Wall (Can require more troops to use effectively, but benefits outweigh expenditure)

In closing, it is safe to say that a wall is a better choice because it offers better protection as well as tactical advantages, however the moat is a significantly faster and cheaper option. Also the moat is, in many ways more durable than the wall.

I would advise them that if they choose to go down this road, they should use both a wall and moat approach, as the castles of old used.

Unfortunately, like castles of old, it's limitation is that if food can be cut off, they are screwed.

[daleo]

16. A moat would require diverting a lot of water in a desert environment

It would also raise the possibility of creating a massive breeding ground for mosquitoes, including malaria mosquitoes. I can't imagine it being that deep or broad, so motivated insurgents could just wade, swim or float across (and there is no doubt they are motivated).

Of course that assumes that insurgents aren't in the city already. In fact, they are the citizens of Baghdad. It is like trying to keep Texans out of Texas with a moat around Texas.

[NOLADEM]

19. Uh......ok

The freedom fighters (terrorists) are ALREADY THERE. What the hell are they trying to do, seal them in?

And does this indicate that we have completely surrendered the rest of the country? What message does this send to the rest of Iraqis outside this idiotic security ditch?

Medieval moats, Great Wall of China, Berlin wall. All excellent ideas. :crazy:

What idiocy.

I am very sure that Halliburton would build a very fancy moat, at a bargain price for the US.

People scale MOUNTAINS in subzero weather on foot to attack Americans in Afghanistan. Does anyone seriously think that people in Iraq can't get into Iraq over a ten foot sand dune being manned by their compatriots and sympathizers?

They can't possibly be serious.

What folly.

Monte Python needs to hire these guys.

[minnesota_liberal]

12. If we can fence off the U.S. from Mexico, why not a Baghdad moat?

Actually the moat sounds more practical.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

13. Uncle Dick to Jr: "You just had to go and tell them about the moat

didn't you. Now we will never get the damn thing built. There will be an investagation and then an investagation of the investagation. Just couldn't keep your dumbass mouth shut."

[saltpoint]

14. Ya know what? I LIKE the idea of a moat around Baghdad. Do it.

Dig that thing good and deep, stock it with fish, and raise war funds with it as a pay lake.

Sell lures and nightcrawlers at 4 or 5 spots around the perimeter, rent canoes. That sort of thing.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

15. Will there be crocodiles in the moat?

[Phredicles]

17. Hey, they're not "trenches", they're "Freedom Holes"!

[vogonity]

26. I never ever do this but...

LOL!

Thank you so much. I really needed a laugh today.

Peace

[SquireJons]

18. Don't forget to fill it with alligators! n/t

[NOLADEM]

22. And sharks

And line the shore with ROUS's.

[knight_of_the_star]

23. With laser beams on their heads! (nt)

nt

[Eugene]

20. Nice game of semantics they're playing.

They can deny that they are actually digging a moat,
but they are connecting up the irrigation canals and other
existing obstacles that already surround the city.

The end result is still a moat around Baghdad.

[Sabriel]

24. After the moat is finished, we'll hire them to build the Mexico fence

Proof that we're getting Iraqi citizens gainful employment.

[SKKY]

25. We're the most technologically advanced military this world has ever...

known, and we're reduced to building trenches and moats? :wtf: has Rumsfeld done?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

27. hey, if moats worked 1000 yrs ago, why not?

besides, things are going so well in Iraqnam, that they can also double as irrigation channels for the booming ag industry. Perhaps booming was a bad choice of words.

[karlrschneider]

28. It would be unfortunate if somebody were to invent a trebuchet

oh, wait...