(Sen. Hillary) Clinton, Gingrich Both Defend the Pope

[Omaha Steve]

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20060920/D8K89HLO0.html

Clinton, Gingrich Both Defend the Pope
Email this Story

Sep 19, 9:26 PM (ET)

By DEVLIN BARRETT

WASHINGTON (AP) - Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton and former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, longtime foes in American politics, forcefully defended Pope Benedict XVI on Tuesday against a wave of Muslim criticism over a speech last week.

When asked about the controversy prior to her speech at an American Cancer Society event, Clinton, D-N.Y., said the pope's follow-up statement should have been enough to settle the matter.

"It's just outrageous and offensive that people would be threatening violence against him based on what he said, especially when there is so much they should be working on together," Clinton said.


Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., holds up a blue book similar to the 'speech book' given to her by former Gov. Ann Richards as she addresses the Memorial Service for Richards, in Austin, Monday, Sept. 18, 2006. (AP Photo/Deborah Cannon, Pool)


The former first lady has a huge lead in her Senate re-election bid this year. Her opponent, Republican John Spencer, had criticized her Tuesday for not speaking out in the pope's defense.

FULL story at link above.

[leesa]

1. Well, no surprise there. Hillary seems to approve of bombing Muslims for

no good reason.

[VegasWolf]

15. She's still pandering for the nutcase vote. nt

[oasis]

28. Name one presidential hopeful who doesn't agree with Hillary on the issue.

Just one.

[Totally Committed]

2. Thanks for saying WHICH Clinton in your subject line!

I appreciate that.

That having been said.... Why should ANYONE defend what the Pope said? It was indefensible. And, she did it just to pander to the Catholics, as her opponent told her she must? Ugh. This is gonna be a HORRIBLE Presidential Primary Season. I am dreading it.

TC

[William769]

3. What the Pope said was wrong.

Burning a image of the Pope in effigy was wrong also. Sorry but two wrongs don't make a right.

[rodeodance]

7. I agree. the Pope is no scholar and I do not think he wants to diss the

Muslim faith. But i also think some extreemists took advantage of the Pope's mistake.


I am glad to see Hil. speak out.

[Psephos]

18. Actually, the Pope IS a scholar, a former professor at Univ of Bonn

As he mentions in the first few sentences of his speech.

I agree with you that he's not trying to diss Muslims, and that extremists made a media event out of what he said by distortion and selective listening.

Ironic in the extreme, considering his subject matter.

Peace.

[warrens]

10. Why is burning in effigy wrong?

That addresses the PERSON who did it, not the entire RELIGION. Sounds like legit protest to me. And two wrongs may not make a right, but letting one wrong stand is worse.

[William769]

32. Well for starters they just made his point for him.

[havocmom]

4. Both wanna be contenders

[Kelvin Mace]

5. yes what Muslims are doing is wrong

but Pope Rat is not helping matters with his non-apology apologies. He is displayed gross insensitivity to the religious sensibilities of Muslims. Hillary's defense of him is simply more grubbing for votes from wing nuts.

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

6. I still don't get why the Pope should apologize for

a scholarly speech where he quoted a historical figure, especially considering the academic setting. Frankly, he has the right to voice his own academic opinions in an academic setting in front of an academic audience, just like professors who believe 9/11 was a big conspiracy have the right to voice their opinion in an academic setting (or anywhere else, for that matter). Now, if he had repeated the quote in Vatican Square on a Sunday with thousands of people listening, I could see how that would be a problem for the Catholic Church.

Moreover, why can't people simply accept criticism of their religion? I agree Pope Rat is not the best choice for the See and one could go on for days about his 'misspent youth' and other facets of his life and beliefs. But he is, after all, the representative of the Catholic faith. His job, in essence, is to promote his faith above others. That includes criticizing other faiths. Many imams of all stripes in all continents do the same; many hindus do the same; many protestants do the same; etc.

So, in other words, I can be a muslim and criticize all other faiths, but beware anyone who criticizes me???? (again, I'll argue that the Pope was not criticizing, but merely quoting).

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[warrens]

9. Well, Hill, I think you just lost MY vote

Backing up that bigoted piece of nazi shit...what the HELL are you thinking?

[Zynx]

11. Those who protested what the Pope said should apologize.

The Pope never endorsed those words at all. He was showing what has been the historical discourse between Christians and Muslims, not insulting Islam.

That would be like if I was giving a report on Hitler and I happened to quote something he said and I got tagged as believing in the Nazi agenda.

[closeupready]

13. Not quite. The quote was tangential to the lecture he gave,

almost irrelevant, unlike quoting Hitler in a speech about Hitler.

The violence must stop, but people have a right to protest peacefully.

[happyslug]

14. The Quote was the start of the Emperor's attack on the use of force.

If you read the speech, you will quickly see that the thrust of the Whole Speech was an attack on the concept of spreading one's faith by the sword. That was the "Evil" the Emperor Manuel and the Pope were both attacking. The Emperor was more direct, but then he was in Mos lem held territory, fighting for his "liege" the Turkish Sultan (Do to the situation in right in is now Turkey and Greece, the Emperor was fighting with the Sultan not was an ally, but as a vassal of the Sultan). The Emperor's statements was simple, what concept on how to live on this earth did Mohammad gave this earth except the concept of spreading the Faith by the Sword, which the Emperor called "Evil".

Now the Catholic Church has at times done Conversion by the Sword, but as a whole the Church has did liked the Concept (Even during the Spanish Inquisition, if you were a Jew or Moslem you did NOT come under the authority of the Inquisition unless you had converted to Catholicism, if one covered up one's true faith the Inquisition would go after you, but if you NEVER were Catholic you were tried by other courts in Spain). Cortes did convert some Mexican Indians by the Sword, but most times his Religious leader convinced him NOT TO. Thus the norm was NO CONVERSION BY THE SWORD (But a non-believer could be fined and kicked out of the Country as Queen Mary did to the Puritans and other Protestants while she Ruled England between the reign of her Brother and the later reign of her sister Elizabeth).

On the other hand, Charlemagne converted the Saxons by the Sword, The King of Kiev converted his people all at once by the Sword and you have numerous other conversions by the Sword (The Poles around 900, and the Lithuanians in the 1300s, both by their own kings). This evil affected both the Catholics, Protestants and Moslems since the concept was introduced in the 600s by Mohammad. The Emperor Manuel viewed conversion by the Sword as evil AS DOES THIS POPE. Forcing any religion on anyone is wrong by Manual and this Pope, and that is the point the Pope was trying to make by referring to this ancient debate.

[BoneDaddy]

12. Give me a break

The Pope is entitled to his opinion... bottom line. Was his opinion stupid, inflammatory and unnecessary? Absolutely. Should he apologize? That is up to him. He would be smart to do so, unless he wants a further clash of religion and culture.

But I wish some of this "outrage" for his words is also echoed in the atrocious behavior and actions of muslims who retaliated by bombing churches and killing or attacking Christians. The muslims who did this subscribe to a level of barbarity that is on the same tract as the insane Christians in this country.

Freaking religion. We should put all fundamentals from all religions on Antartica and let them fight to the death with rusty butter knives.

[Raine]

16. I agree

yeah it was a stupid thing to say but what's with the deal that you can't criticize a religion. Seems that one side sure dish it out but when it comes to themselves they can't take it and they cry foul, that's being a hypocrite. x(

EDIT: Spelling

[Tellurian]

17. The Republicans are ROFL at Hillary..

They blindside her 2X in a row by getting her involved in a distasteful Republican agenda'

Last week it was stupid comments regarding the Assassination Movie. This week, the Pope!

Wait, Newt and the Pope..What in Hell is she doing even giving Newt Gingrich the right time of day?

How in the world can she be so blind, she doesn't see it coming? And they catch her every time!

I don't understand this at all. She a smart woman, well spoken, a doer...what's the deficiency?

[Psephos]

19. She's smart enough to know that church-going people will like her position

There are an awful lot of them not only on the right, but in the middle.

Peace.

[Tellurian]

21. We Won without em' the last time!

Theres no need to compromise integrity for votes.

Every layer of WH Republicans are involved in scandals or wrongdoing.
They're going down in flames and want to drag her down with them.

WAKE UP, Hillary!

[CBHagman]

26. "Without them"? Have you looked around DU?

My dear Tellurian, THEY are here! I mean the church-goers, the people who pray, the folks who have a set of spiritual beliefs! Don't you think there are Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Wiccans, Buddhists, and members of various other faiths voting for Democrats? If not, why did I see that guy in a "Firefighters for Kerry" t-shirt going up to take communion at Mass one Sunday?

And what would you do with Robert Kennedy if he came back from the dead? Throw him out of the Democratic Party for being Roman Catholic? How about Harry Truman, a Baptist? That candidate in Minnesota -- Ellison, I believe - who is a convert to Islam?

And whisper it not: Former President Jimmy Carter teaches Sunday school. That ought to make a few souls cross around here (No pun intended).

As to your comment on integrity, it takes principle and backbone to defend free speech. You can bet your sweet Democratic posterior that if a religious group (Take your pick) were threatening a writer (Salman Rushdie, anyone?) or comedian for giving offense, many on DU would rush to his/her defense, especially if threats of arrest and/or death were offered in response to what is basically speech. And in the pope's case, it was not only merely speech, but simply quoting from a historical figure during an academic lecture. So now you can get arrested and/or killed for making a quotation?

How about if Jerry Falwell were threatening comedienne Sarah Silverman or filmmakers Kevin Smith or Martin Scorsese for their material? It looks a little different from that angle, doesn't it?

[Tellurian]

30. Well sure...

All of the above sounds good on paper. Your fine analogy justifying free speech is admirable with which I mostly agree but lacking in one respect. All of the above are in the Middle East leveling Iraq's infrastructure indiscriminately killing hundreds of thousands of civilians in a fraudulent war. (I'm sure given a choice would be home with their families.) Isn't that the real basis for the Muslim's outrage? The Pope's quotation pointing to Muslims "Conversion by the Sword" when in fact, the reverse is TRUE and the reality of it all?

What are we sleuthing here? Free Speech? Religion? Votes? War? Death?

Coming from the Pope, advocating Prudence and Compassion would have been phenomenally effective in shaking the shoulders of both sides of the Religious spectrum. Condemning Wars, valuing life, lightly chastising both sides, rather than giving voice to negative inflammatory insinuations geared to one side of a conservative audience.

Very UNPopely, imo..

[BoneDaddy]

20. She is selling you out and

is trying to appeal to a broader audience. It is called bad politics.
That is why I don't like Hillary at all. She is a politico first, democrat, second.

[VegasWolf]

22. Yes, and liberal last, which is really why I don't like her. nt

[Tellurian]

23. She's asleep at the wheel...and has to be reminded

that someone like Newt would sooner see her dead on the floor, than
do anything to enhance her public image.

She's swimming with sharks. All they're doing is cultivating their prey
before they go in for the kill.

I can tell you one thing...She's NOT listening to Bill!

[arewenotdemo]

24. That she has anything to do with that pathetic excuse for a

human being speaks volumes.

[Tellurian]

25. Defend the Pope...argggh!

This Pope defends Child molesting priests from Prosecution!

As soon a s a parishioner reports an abuse, the priest is moved
to another parish, until he's reported again. (per the Pope)

[oasis]

29. Hill didn't call a press conference on the issue. She was asked.

[Vidar]

31. Thanks for the clarification.

[unkachuck]

27. Hillary, oh my...

....the Nazi Pope poked at the Islamic-sore and broke it open and you agree with one of our resident Nazis regarding the reaction over the Nazi Popes' comments?

....'Hillary Rodham Clinton, what was she thinking?'....