USS Pueblo crew blunt about terror debate

[El Supremo]

By PETER ROPER
THE PUEBLO CHIEFTAIN

If anyone is qualified to talk about torture and interrogation, the crew of the USS Pueblo certainly is.

Gathering in the lobby of the Pueblo Marriott for their 10th reunion Wednesday, surviving crew members of the Navy's most famous spy ship were enjoying the camaraderie of being together once again.

But they also were willing to share some blunt opinions over the current debate about the Geneva Conventions and what U.S. interrogators are allowed to do to terror suspects.

"Personally, I don't have much sympathy for people who are trying to fly airplanes into our buildings," said Don Peppard, 69, who was a cryptographic technician aboard the Pueblo when it was seized by North Korean gunboats on Jan. 23, 1968 - beginning 11 months of brutal imprisonment for the 82 surviving crew members.

"No matter what we decide, people like the North Koreans are going to treat our prisoners brutally," Peppard said. "But my feeling is- if somebody knows something that would save lives, we should get it out of him."

more at: http://www.chieftain.com/metro/1158861208/1

[Warpy]

1. He needs to be asked what torture got out of him

and how much was guesswork, how much was based on what his tormentors wanted to hear, how much was reliable.

My guess is that he didn't give up a whole lot that was useful.

That's why we need to fight this mindset with everything we've got. Not only do these techniques NOT WORK, they pretty much insure that any of our soldiers who get captured anywhere will be equally mistreated, just for revenge.

He's wrong, dead wrong, and his mindset is a dangerous one. We can't afford people like that making policy.

[saigon68]

2. his mindset is a dangerous one

IF HE WANTS TO LIVE LIKE A DOG

He should move to a Kennel

[niallmac]

3. C'mon everybody! Help us torture our way to a better tomorrow!

We torture people so people who might torture us and our loved ones don't take over
our country. See? We are absolutely better people than the torture terrorists because
well gosh darnit, if you don't know that we are better people what kind of American are you?

[alternativethot]

4. and I'm sure it promotes freedom right, right?

Whatever. This guy is smoking crack and has learned nothing. If you allow it as we have so far and then say, hey, certain things are legal then we are actively training and promoting torturers and, in effect, saying that anybody, no matter their beliefs might be subjected to these treatments.

[Goat or Panic]

5. Republican Logic

So we're going to torture people who are on a suicide mission? How exactly? Be keeping them alive? If you've come to terms with the fact that you're going to fly yourself into a building at 400 mph, I don't think water boarding and sleep deprivation are really going to be much more than a waste of time.

[FogerRox]

6. IIRC the CMDR Loyd Bucher, I wonder what his take on this is.

[slackmaster]

12. CMDR Bucher is dead

My mom knew him personally.

[FogerRox]

18. I read his book in softcover, amazing story

The Hawaiian good luck sign ! ! ! !

[arcane1]

7. one thing he failed to mention:

if the enemy knows they will be tortured if captured, they will fight to the death

if they know they will be treated humanely if captured, they will be more likely to surrender

[catnhatnh]

8. Read the WHOLE STORY....

...so you can get the full "Through the Looking Glass" WTF impact of their' logic-they did it to us,so we should do it to them,but we gave them no information,and it made us fight them harder....yep, that's how I want to handle an opponent who has information I want...

[Dogmudgeon]

10. Yep. Here's the key to it:

"While being hard-nosed about the need for tough interrogation, the crew members also seemed to agree with those who claim torture produces little useful information. Their North Korean interrogators got nothing of value from them, the crew members said." (Pueblo crew quotes follow.)

--p!

[Dogmudgeon]

9. "Getting it out of him"

With torture? Bad.

With skill, guile, intelligent discourse, and humane treatment? Good.

Torture has been extensively studied and it fails every test. Why use something that just plain doesn't work?

--p!

[Liberal Dose]

11. Someone needs to make Mr. Peppard understand that by altering the Geneva

Conventions, there is nothing left to prosecute those who would brutalize our military in wartime. I don't believe anyone would support making torture universally OKAY. :banghead:

[frylock]

13. people like this are usually too stupid to see the big picture

[Liberal Dose]

19. I hate to admit it, but you're right.

You can hand a blind man a flashlight, but you can't make him see.

[tabasco]

14. I thought we were supposed to be the good guys.

I'm a combat vet myself and I never thought I was serving a country that condoned torture.

If I thought my government was that evil I wouldn't even care about the missions.

Oh well what do I know? I was in the infantry, fighting in cities, not a high-speed Navy guy self-appointed torture expert.

These selected assholes don't represent me as a vet.

[daleo]

15. Bush has learned well, from North Korea

"We (U.S. interrogators) don't torture prisoners," argued Bob Chicca, 62, and one of the two Marines aboard the Pueblo. "We just don't let (detainees) sleep or we play rock music at them real loud. That's not torture or anything like what was done to us."
...
"What was done to the crew of the Pueblo has been well-chronicled since the crew's release in December 1968... The crew then was taken to a prison camp and put through months of beatings, mock executions and other abuse as their North Korean captors demanded the Americans admit to being spys and committing other crimes."

Actually, I was under the impression the U.S. had done all of these things in Iraq and Afghanistan:

- waterboarding certainly qualifies as a mock execution.
- there have been reports of beatings galore, including the use of dogs.
- "other abuse" is vague, but certainly there has been plenty of "other abuse" on the part of the U.S. (smearing people with feces, sexual assault and humiliation, stress positions, sensory deprivation, etc.).

The Bush regime should be ashamed - they have stooped as low as one of the world's premier totalitarian dictatorships. By these lights, the U.S. qualifies as part of the axis of evil.

This bit is interesting:
"While being hard-nosed about the need for tough interrogation, the crew members also seemed to agree with those who claim torture produces little useful information. Their North Korean interrogators got nothing of value from them, the crew members said."

Perhaps only the right-wingers among them go to the reunions, from the tone of the article (it could just be a case of selective reporting, of course):
"That's why some crew members never have attended reunions, Peppard said. Their colleagues understand, but believe the reunions are ways for the men to rekindle friendships and good memories of a time when they were all sorely tested and survived together."

[tabasco]

17. There are mock executions in Iraq every fucking day.

On a bad day we have real executions too.

We are no better than the North Koreans.

Thanks republicans, for making me ashamed to be an American.

Assholes.

[El Supremo]

16. I think those 11 months screwed up his head.

I was very surprised to read this. But remember the Pueblo Chieftain is a right wing editorialist rag.