NYT: Pickers Are Few, and Growers Blame Congress

[Pirate Smile]

Pickers Are Few, and Growers Blame Congress


Toni Scully, whose family owns a pear-packing company in Northern California, rejected tons of fruit that had been picked too late for markets.

By JULIA PRESTON
Published: September 22, 2006

LAKEPORT, Calif. — The pear growers here in Lake County waited decades for a crop of shapely fruit like the one that adorned their orchards last month.
“I felt like I went to heaven,” said Nick Ivicevich, recalling the perfection of his most abundant crop in 45 years of tending trees.

Now harvest time has passed and tons of pears have ripened to mush on their branches, while the ground of Mr. Ivicevich’s orchard reeks with rotting fruit. He and other growers in Lake County, about 90 miles north of San Francisco, could not find enough pickers.

Stepped-up border enforcement kept many illegal Mexican migrant workers out of California this year, farmers and labor contractors said, putting new strains on the state’s shrinking seasonal farm labor force.

Labor shortages have also been reported by apple growers in Washington and upstate New York. Growers have gone from frustrated to furious with Congress, which has all but given up on passing legislation this year to create an agricultural guest-worker program.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/22/washington/22growers.html?hp&ex=1158897600&en=5e948953ea09edad&ei=5094&partner=homepage

[babylonsister]

1. Who isn't suffering? Where are the U.S. workers? nt

[Viva_La_Revolution]

7. Hourly wages range from $7.35 for pear harvester....

to $12.75 for wheat harvester.
https://www.workforceexplorer.com/admin/uploadedPublications/5593_AUG05COMBO.pdf page 17.

These are jobs that Americans used to do for $.50 more an hour...

[babylonsister]

11. I repeat; where are all the American workers?

I know for a fact I've been told there are tons of Americans who would work these jobs in a heartbeat if the illegals were out of the picture. So where are all these Americans looking for jobs?

[Viva_La_Revolution]

14. We would work for those wages if they paid what they used to...

I wanted to get back into warehousing/inventory control, but those positions are paying $.50 to $1 less per hour.
So now I'm painting houses for $2.00 less per hour than THAT used to pay...

I just can't pay all the bills for less than $10 per hour-with-no benefits. :(

[IndianaGreen]

22. Wait until you hear the outcry from consumers

when they see produce prices skyrocket as growers and packers are forced to pay competitive wages.

Yep, we are all guilty!

[AbbyR]

79. They probably won't

because farmers are competing under the WTO, and other countries in the organization pay lower wages, have higher government subsidies and don't pay for the technology that our country gives away to other countries.

I think the goal of this administration is to let us become dependent on other countries for our food and fiber as well as our oil. We can all see how well that's worked out.

[jwirr]

112. Wait until we feel the rise in price due to all this rejected produce.

[Psephos]

29. Employed elsewhere. The U.S. is near full employment at 95.3%

Not a lot of slack right now to fill harvesting jobs.

Wait 'til the next business cycle downturn. Then they'll be lining up.

Peace.

[w4rma]

34. That is a crock of bull. Americans are very under employed, now. (nt)

[Psephos]

35. Argument by self-righteous assertion is not very convincing.

Unemployment rate for August 2006: 4.7%

Here's the link:

http://www.bls.gov/

That's the Bureau of Labor Statistics, U.S. Government.

Peace.

[w4rma]

36. I said *under employed*. Folks are making less, stuck in part-time jobs

that won't hire them full time. There are *many many* fewer middle class jobs available now than there were 6 years ago. And the median (not mean/average - because we aren't interested in including the money that billionares have made off of the lowering wages/salaries) salary/wage has been dropping off of a cliff for the past six years.

As for un-employment. You need to look at figures which include folks who have dropped off the unemployment roles because they took too long in finding a job or have given up.

[Psephos]

40. BLS figures are the gold standard. We accepted them under Clinton.

We've accepted them throughout the 20th Century. They are the basis for government entitlement allocations, for federal payments to states, and are accepted as a useful measurement by professional economists. BLS statisticians have the largest employment database in the world from which to cull their figures, and are career civil servants, not political appointees. Anyone caught messing with the figures there gets fired regardless who's in the White House.

I agree there are other ways to measure employment, and they would yield different numbers. There's a saying that a man with one watch knows what time it is; a man with two watches is never sure.

My point is that we currently are in a time where fewer people looking for jobs, near the point where professional economists say we've reached full employment, because those who are still jobless are the hardest to employ. Some of them are unemployable. "Total employment" is a myth, an ideal. Although it's well worth keeping as an ideal, about one in thirty people are simply never going to hold a job. That's not my figure. That's the consensus of professional economists, reaching back at least as far as J K Gailbraith.

As for your other assertions, I realize that you are resistant to official statistics and neutral sources, so I'm content not to respond to them. Why should I waste your time or mine?

Peace.

[w4rma]

42. Wow. Unbelievable. Come down from your ivory tower.

Walk outside of your gated community.

[Tellurian]

57. Right On..

These assholes quoting Bush statistics are all over this forum..
How they ever got to 1000 posts, and not kicked out before hand, is beyond me.

[KurtNYC]

61. Unemployment which is NOT included in the BLS figure

-Those who have lost their jobs and have become discouraged over time from actively looking for work.
-Those who are self-employed or wish to become self-employed, such as tradesmen or building contractors or IT consultants.
-Those who have retired before the official retirement age but would still like to work.
-Those on disability pensions who, while not possessing full health, still wish to work in occupations suitable for their medical conditions.
-Those who work for payment for as little as one hour per week but would like to work full-time. These people are "involuntary part-time" workers.
-Those who are underemployed, e.g., a computer programmer who is working in a retail store until he can find a permanent job.

[SharonAnn]

78. I'm only hard to employ because I'm not desparate enough yet to

to work for low wages. I'm a professional with high-tech skills and I expect to paid more than $15 hr.

[fasttense]

106. How the bushes rig the unemployment numbers - here is a link

If you can handel the truth.

http://www.shadowstats.com/cgi-bin/sgs/

[brentspeak]

117. Only full-time, permanent employment numbers should be the standard

to obtain unemployment % numbers. The long-standing practice of including part-time and temporary jobs into these measurements obscures the true condition of the U.S' employment picture.

[Odin2005]

38. Those unemployment numbers are Bushist lies.

The real unemployment rate is around 8-10%, like in many European countries. The Bushists conviniently only count people geting unemployment benefits.

[lapfog_1]

49. I'm sure you are aware of how that number is arrived at...

Lots of people who are out of work simply don't get counted by the methods employed.

The true unemployment rate (of workers actively seeking employment) is much much higher.

In addition, while there are many people seeking work, few of those are willing to do the backbreaking
and demanding work of a farmworker, especially at the rates paid by CA farmers (corporations and coops).

When I was a kid in high school, I did these types of jobs (stoop labor in a field) every summer.
It's something you only want to do as a youth, and even then it's hard on your body (but you are young
and you feel invincible). And because the money, to me, was my spending money (my folks covered my
living expenses)... I could convince myself to do it. But to this day, I remember walking up and down
endless rows, my upper body beaten by the sun, my lower body covered by grasshoppers... any part of me
not covered was scratched and cut by the leaves or the weeds. And you could never get enough water.

I would gladly pay more for my fruit and veggies if the workers were better treated and had adequate
breaks and better working conditions.

Not to mention that the MOST likely source of the recent E.coli spinach issue was the lack of break times
and sanitary facilities for the workers in the fields.

[Tellurian]

103. You can't be serious..

"Not to mention that the MOST likely source of the recent E.coli spinach issue was the lack of break times
and sanitary facilities for the workers in the fields."

Have you lost your mind..It would take truckloads of raw sewerage to taint spinach plants to the point of harboring e-coli within the plant itself. The only reasonable explanation is the seeds of the plant were BIO ENGINEERED BY ADM which makes no secret of altering the genomes of pristine seed to include e-coli gene.

[Odin2005]

105. Great, not more anti-GMO conpiracy crap.

:eyes:

[Tellurian]

109. It would be good getting the scientific community to investigate this..

Just watched a DVD a few months ago addressing this very issue on the effects of GMO's on humans..
Well, the tainted spinach did the telling.

I feel so sorry for the Mom who bought her 2 yr old son a spinach smoothie about 10 days ago.
He died yesterday of e-coli poisoning.

[Tellurian]

114. Here is the DVD Title if you care to rent it,

Title:



"The Future of Food."

I erroneously labeled ADM as the villain, when in fact,
the villain is MONSANTO...

This is a chilling documentary backed by mucho research.

[Odin2005]

121. I am a biotech major, I am quite knowledgable of GMO's.

And you are spewing nonsense.

[lapfog_1]

110. I'm guessing that you've never been to a modern

"factory farm".

Or a meat packing plant.

Let me try to explain to your paranoid self.

In the central valley and in the Salinas valley, there are extensive irrigation systems, often using
open canals to transport water to the fields. These canals go from farm to farm and field to field.
Farm workers here are picking and packing produce right in the field. There is enormous pressure to
make quotas. Which means few to no breaks while the field is processed. And the breaks are taken
right there, in the field. Now let's say a worker needs to "use the facilities" and there isn't enough
time or a portable sanitary facility to use... but there IS this nice canal right next to the road where
the trucks are and where everyone is taking a break. So he or she slips down the embankment...

Water, now contaminated, is carried to all the fields and sprayed right on the produce, produce is
picked, and when packed, likely (I won't swear to this because I haven't seen spinach packed),
sorted and mixed... and packed into those nice little baggies you see at the supermarket. A refer
truck (that's where I come in) is standing right there to pick up the boxes on pallets and truck
them (within a day or, at most, two) your supermarket.

In previous times... a contamination like what I described would affect 1 farm, that's farms produce
would be distributed at the local market. Instead of 100's infected in a dozen states, you would get
one or two families infected in the town. It happened ALL THE TIME (but it was simply part of life,
so wasn't really remarked upon... certainly not national news).

But in today's factory farm techniques, there isn't much chance of discovering or containing an outbreak
before it reaches the levels seen in this story. Even more true when one talks about meat processing.

These E.coli outbreaks are just disasters waiting to happen (and they do, routinely). Especially as we
export our factory farm techniques to the rest of the world, but without the modest amount of controls
that we employ here (controls the repukes and the BFEE are trying to eliminate or ignore).

There certainly is no need to go to paranoid fantasies about GSM and evil plots to make us sick...
incompetence and a failure to enforce regulations is all that is required.

[Tellurian]

115. I hear you brother..

I've been there and done that..but..

Rent the video "The Future of Foods" where the E-coli gene
is injected into the genome of plant seeds.. then come back to me.

Talk again on Monday-

[Nikia]

143. If that were true, a lot more people would be sick

Really, it doesn't take a lot of contamination to get a person sick. Although spinach isn't as ideal of a growth media as say animal products, bacteria does grow on vegtables. That means that a small amount of contaminated spray on the leaves that might contain a few cells can multiply into a few million or more cells in the bag.

[Tellurian]

145. There are over 165 people who have gotten sick

2 reported deaths..

The E-coli is the result of genetic engineering within the seed itself..
done by Monsanto.

It's part of the plants makeup, not a spray that can be washed off.

read here concerning the sick:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14953287/

[Nikia]

147. Still relatively small

I feel bad for those affected but if they use the type of irrigation that I am thinking of, contaminated water could have hit a large number of plants. I'm not sure how they process it, but the processing equipment can become contaminated and contaminate everything that it is used on until it is disinfected.
If the infection was the result of genetic engineering, there would be thousands if not millions of people sick. Everyone who ate spinach from that seed would be exposed. Given how nasty this strain seems to be, you would have a lot more people sick.
I have not seen the dvd that you mentioned, but what would be the motive of this engineered into the plant. The agri business is losing a great deal of money over this whole deal. It is not in their interest to do that.

[Tellurian]

151. What part of my post

is too difficult for you to understand?

This has nothing to do with contaminated wastewater..

Capice!

[Tellurian]

154. The tainted spinach..

was Organically grown. It's possible there was either cross pollination last year with a bio-engineered crop whose seeds were collected for use this year..OR, This year's seed plantings unbeknown to the farm owner, were erroneously adulterated at the factory with bio-engineered seeds. At any rate, whereas there wasn't 100% contamination of the spinach crop, it's fair to assume, based on the number of people affected, either or could be the scenario. Rather than wastewater contamination as the culprit.

An Update:

Last night, I read somewhere, deer are to blame for the toxic spinach...

[HockeyMom]

111. Kids won't do these summer jobs anymore

There was an article a while back in Newsday on this. The farms on eastern Long Island had the same problem. The high school/college kids, who used to work the the farms, are now getting summer jobs at fast food, supermarkets, summer camps, etc. These jobs pay the same, or even more, than working the fields. Also, whereas these unskilled retail/restaurant jobs used to be permanent full time, they are now temporary and part time. Perfect for a teenage summer job.

[Psephos]

133. Yes, I am

and before I respond, let me say thanks for your thoughtful and useful dialog. I wish there were more civil people like you interested in discussion on these boards.

Some respondents in this thread think when I said that BLS unemployment figures are the "gold standard," that I meant they accurately reflect the true number of unemployed people. I wish they did! However, a closer reading of my post shows I meant no such thing. My point was that BLS figures have been calculated with a consistent methodology for a long time, and so, they serve as a standard relative measure of joblessness from one year to the next, and one regime, oops, administration to the next.

You're quite right when you say, "Lots of people who are out of work simply don't get counted by the methods employed." Especially true when considering that unemployment figures are explicitly based on the number of people looking for work (imperfect, but no one so far has proposed a better method). There are lots of reasons people who are employable but have no job might not be looking for work; this makes the unemployment figures look better than they actually are. OTOH, plenty of people who are not employed in the official economy are employed in the underground economy, and the BLS figures can only toss an educated guess at what that number might be. Also, there are the effects of structural unemployment to consider, such as the increase in unemployment caused minimum wage legislation, labor regulations, or too-narrow technical knowledge (so common in this computer-driven economy) that cannot be easily applied in a different job. (Structural unemployment is a term worth Googling.)

Here's an excerpt from a great article in The Economist:

If a person wants to work as a graphic designer, and has turned down an offer of a job bagging groceries, does he count as unemployed, or merely lazy? How do you categorise the people who stay at home looking after children or aged parents, the students who want to work in their free time, the part-timers who would like to have a full-time job, the healthy people who take early retirement, the affluent but low-skilled wives who throw themselves into volunteer work?

Then there are people who will say they want to work, and have looked for a job some time in the past 12 months, but have not done so in the past few weeks — perhaps because they have lost confidence that there are any jobs to be found. How much weight should be given to their stated desire for more work? If you count some or all of these people into or out of the official unemployed, you can move the American rate by one or two percentage points.

This is not a problem for America only. The accuracy of official unemployment rates everywhere is open to question. In May Sweden put unemployment at 4.8%. But a recent report from the McKinsey Global Institute, a research arm of a consulting firm, notes that Sweden does not count into its unemployment rolls students actively seeking work; nor “discouraged workers” who have stopped looking for jobs because they have lost hope of ever finding one; nor people in schemes that can substitute for employment, such as job training or extended sick leave. If you add in these people, says McKinsey, Sweden’s unemployment rate is closer to 15%—much less encouraging an advertisement for the Nordic model of tempered capitalism.

http://www.economist.com/agenda/displaystory.cfm?story_id=E1_STQTJSJ

As someone else pointed out in another response, there are plenty of other reasons the true figure differs from the official figure, some of which can be found by digging a bit on the BLS site.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of what I call "economic Scientologists" when it comes to interpreting employment statistics. These are the people who trumpet what suits their beliefs, and suppress what doesn't. True believers of all stripes seem to behave the same way. :-) When it comes to unemployment figures, the real truth, the only truth worth the name, is that no one knows the exact number of unemployed.

And it does not matter. What matters is the trend, the relative measure of the current year compared to other years, and other economic cycles. That, we do know. The number of jobless has been in decline over the past year or two. The numbers are similar to those prevalent under Clinton.

On the other hand, the quality of current jobs, or the distribution of income across socioeconomic classes, is another matter entirely, and one well worth discussing. But the O.P. was about fruit rotting in trees due to no one wanting picking jobs. In an economic downturn, there would be lines for those jobs.

Applying Occam's Razor, I stated the simplest explanation: unemployment is at a relatively low point, and the available labor pool has shrunk. But that's not the politically-approved conclusion here. Heh heh. I thought dissent from the approved viewpoint was supposed to be patriotic. :patriot:

OK, lapfog, I kinda used your post as a general place to respond. Sorry 'bout that. I'm with you, I'd gladly pay more for fruits and veggies if I knew it meant better conditions for the workers...and that's true of anything I buy.

Peace and goodwill to you, lapfog. I hope you never appear in the unemployment statistics either. :-)

...........
My opinions, nothing more, nothing less.

[gorbal]

150. Hopefully a hike in the minimum wage will be a result

The main problem in this country is that people who work 40-60 hours a week still can barely afford to live. I make almost what is considered a living wage and I am frightened about the winter heating bills already.

[gorbal]

148. Some might not know about it

I would have run and jumped toward a job like that when I was younger and less employable.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

66. bogus numbers. If they still figured it the way they did in the 70's

we would be at 7-8%

When your unemployment runs out, you are no longer counted as "unemployed". You are no longer counted at all.

[VegasWolf]

85. and of course that number is derived by counting jobless claims, which

expire after six months, and not actual numbers of unemployed people? You know that of course and I'm sure you don't really believe the government numbers do you.

[chat_noir]

87. Table A-12. Alternative measures of labor underutilization

http://www.bls.gov/NEWS.RELEASE/EMPSIT.T12.HTM

U-6 Total unemployed, plus all marginally attached workers, plus total employed part time for economic reasons, as a percent of the civilian labor force plus all marginally attached workers...................... August 2006 8.4



NOTE: Marginally attached workers are persons who currently are neither working nor looking for work but indicate that they want and are available for a job and have looked for work sometime in the recent past. Discouraged workers, a subset of the marginally attached, have given a job-market related reason for not currently looking for a job. Persons employed part time for economic reasons are those who want and are available for full-time work but have had to settle for a part-time schedule. For further information, see "BLS introduces new range of alternative unemployment measures," in the October 1995 issue of the Monthly Labor Review. Beginning in January 2006, data reflect revised population controls used in the household survey.

[KansDem]

107. Here are some more statistics...

US businesses ranked by employee size:

TOP SIX EMPLOYERS
1. Manpower, Inc--2,027,100
2. Wal-Mart--1,700,000
3. Printing and Communications Media, Inc.--757,149
4. Kelly Services, Inc.--708,400
5. Labor Ready, Inc.--602,900
6. McDonald's Corp.--438,000

Now, I'm not an economist but it appears of the top six employers in the US, three specialize in temporary or part-time help and two in low-wage, low-skill jobs (I don't know about No. 3), making me wonder if the economy is really doing as well as the Bushistas and their minions in the Corporate Media want us to believe.

Source: Dun & Bradstreet Business Rankings, 2006.

[leesa]

124. Doesn't mean much when people have fallen off the unemployment rolls

[aquart]

46. That is the most insane statement I've read in a year.

And remember, I read all that stuff that gets removed on the Israel/Palestine forum.

[w4rma]

33. Who can afford to drive out to the middle of nowhere for 6-8 hours of

work that requires one to be physically fit for a measly $10 / hour with no benefits?

That pay isn't even keeping up with inflation. And folks lose an hour of work, at that wage, paying for the gasoline to drive out there in the first place.

The big problem is that these growers have been so used to hiring illegals each year that they don't know how deal with American workers any more. They don't understand American workers' needs. In fact the fact that these folks are mostly Republican voters proves that they don't understand American workers' needs.

[anotherdrew]

44. in a real world not distorted by illegal and exploited foreign workers...

there would be some organization and thought put into this. Most likely a farm would call an agri-labor service in a nearby urban area ahead of time, which would recruit and hire the work force, which would run them up in buses, which would feed them, maybe even offer some kind of group housing closer to large regular fields where the workers could stay or be shuttled back to town at their daily choice. Such a simple system, the kind of thing a "non-distorted" free market economy would make happen. it would be great, the agri-labor brokers could even oh say, be ownable by the workers in some way, the possibilities are endless. but only if growers stop depending on illegal workers. No doubt, a guest worker program would be a part of this.

[ima_sinnic]

67. excellent ideas that were also running around in my head

there are "brokers" for construction jobs--my husband was on one of their lists and got called from time to time--this would work.

[krispos42]

132. I think you are right on with this

This is the first harvest where the labor pool has shifted in a significant manner. It will take severals harvests to re-adapt to the new normalcy. Trust me, dozens or hundreds of business types are even now working on starting companies to deal with this problem.

That's the free market at work. Now, where the government steps in is making sure that whatever labor-pool system emerged was properly and fairly regulated, enforced, and taxed. Health insurance paid up, federal and state income taxes paid, working conditions are acceptable, etc.

[anotherdrew]

137. exactly, our 'system' works when it's used and not bypassed by illegals

I don't blame them for taking-advantage-of/being-exploited-by the situation, but hope that they don't expect it to be permenant, we as an ation need to be able to pick our own crops.

[krispos42]

152. Our system changed once when illegals flooded the workforce

and it will change back. Hell, John Deere might decide it is now profitable to build a lettuce-picking attachment for their tractors and remove it once and for all.

Out here in the Midwest, a lot of farms are family-owned, and the kids do this kind of work instead of for-hire people. This industrial-farming crap eliminates this, so now they are dependent on a seasonal workforce, the money earned during the brief harvesting season does not carry through the other 11 months of the year.

And it's not like a manufacturing company, where throughout the year a plant builds up a surplus of product for shipment during the shopping season. This stuff is very time sensitive and can't be stockpiled.

[diamidue]

41. Gotta have transportation to the fields

and transportation back or else a place to live nearby. These fields can be far from cities. I worked in the central Valley of CA when I was younger. Not picking in the fields, but working on conveyor belts sorting and bagging the vegetables. I was one of only 2 or 3 non-hispanics working there and I lived with a migrant family. If not for that family, I would never have had a job as there were few places to live nearby. It was brutally hard work by the way. I would work from dawn till 10 at night - often standing in water up to my ankles all day.

[kineneb]

94. exactly

and Lake Co. is not on a major highway. Getting here requires driving on two-lane roads through the hills. There is very little transit that goes out of the county, although service around the lake is fairly good, given the population size.

[anotherdrew]

43. where were the want ads? Show me an ad for one of these picking jobs n/t

[KurtNYC]

63. Here it is - $7.65 an hour

She said her company and some other packing sheds would be willing to pay $7.65 to $7.95 an hour for individuals to work in assisting them at this critical time as sorters, machine operators, box assemblers and folders, and other miscellaneous jobs.

Anyone interested should call Scully Packing immediately at 263-7327 in Finley or 263-7373 in Scotts Valley, or Adobe Creek Packing at 279-4204.

http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:AacIoOaMly0J:www.record-bee.com/local/ci_4287087+Toni+Scully&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=10

Someone down thread quotes $150 a day -- that would be a 19-hour day.

Some of the newer wineries used more labor this year and her harvest is late so there is not enough labor to go around. This shortage may have nothing to do with border enforcement but of course that wouldn't stop the MSM from drawing that conclusion.

[fasttense]

108. I can get a job with benefits cleaning rentals at $10/hr.

Why would anyone take a job for just $7.95/hr with No benefits? Anytime you want, you can get a job cleaning rentals at $10/hr with vacation, medical and other benefits here in East TN. They want their cheap labor and the easy market. If costs of food has to go up to support a living wage then it has to go up. I don't see anyone complaining about the cost of vacation summer/winter/fall rentals here in East TN. The cost of those vacation rentals include the cost of cleaning services. Yet especially during the fall, those rentals are full to overflowing.

[kineneb]

95. they have been in the local papers for months

there just are not very many local people available to do the job.

[recoveringrepublican]

47. Well I'm not in CA, but I WOULD do it. Just lost my job. nt

[LostinVA]

51. I hear ya

[The Backlash Cometh]

59. Well, it would be helpful to know these jobs existed BEFORE the

fruit became ripened.

[kineneb]

96. Scully had ads in the papers since June

looking for labor. But there are only so many workers available, and some were harvesting grapes at the vineyards.

[Hoping4Change]

101. Are you being sarcastic? Do you have any idea how backbreaking

the work is and how little is paid?

[peteatomic]

130. They're apparently not interested, since nobody seems to be flocking

to pick tons of fruit in back breaking, poorly paid working positions.

[Zorra]

26. In 1992, you got about $9 or $10 for picking a bin of apples in

North Central Washington State. Generally, it was what was called "contract work". The more you picked, the more money you made.

A good picker could pick about a bin of Red Delicious in an hour, sometimes more, depending on the size of the trees and how heavy the crop was in the orchard being picked.

In 1978, you got about $7 for picking a bin of apples.

I wonder what they pay for picking a bin of apples now?

[Viva_La_Revolution]

65. only reference I can find is an hourly wage of

$7.50 to $12.88
http://www.wahort.org/Issue%20Brief.pdf#search=%22apples%20wage%20washington%22

[kineneb]

97. which is good pay around here for anything

I worked for the Clearlake Chamber of Commerce, and they only paid $10/hr, no benefits, no time off, etc. So that is a decent wage. I might have done it part-time, but the orchards and packing shed are 40 min from my house, and I am caregiver for Hubby, who collects doctors instead of china teacups.

[zreosumgame]

82. NOBODY ASKED

in fact these 'poor poor growers' allowed the crop to rot and did not ASK for help. There are food banks that would have gotten volunteers out there, as well as migrant worker associations that were never notified of any issue. If they had asked there would have been no problem. to me it looks like they just wanted a loss for tqax purposes and now are playig the pity me card. Screw em.

[eleny]

2. The inevitable is happening

How sad.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

3. Make Pear Wine! Problem solved.

:evilgrin:

Yer Welcome, Ms. Scully.

[zonkers]

4. LIHOP? How could you not know this would happen. But it;s okay, its

jus California.

[eleny]

5. Kicked & Recommended, btw

[BRLIB]

6. Instead of looking why isn't she pickin?

And if they are too cheap to pay a living wage they deserve to suffer.

[eleny]

18. People like you give me the creeps

[LostinVA]

52. You have no idea what she does

People who own orchards work their asses off... they aren't some kind of Donald Trump sitting in meetings. When I lived in NJ, I went to school with kids whose family owned huge commercial apple orchards. They were often shoulder-to-shoulder with the migrant workers, packing fruit in the plants, helping load apples into presses to make cider, etc.

The arte pear pickers make is more than I thought it would be. Of course it's not enough, but it's more than the literal slave wages some migrants make.

[Straight Shooter]

8. Another classic case of, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

For better or worse, the agricultural system relied on migrant workers. For the most part they're treated like crap, but I don't know how things are any better for them or for the producers, especially the smaller ones, now that we've gone through the "illegal immigration" brouhaha.

When the cost of food goes up even higher, who is to blame? Either let the migrant workers (illegal or whatever) do the job, or pay the wages that American citizens demand.

Maybe this is a good thing. Maybe we'll finally get some clarity on the issue. Maybe the illegal workers will even get some respect for how much we've counted on them for all these past years.

[eleny]

10. I wonder how much pears would cost if wages were what citizens demand?

This is a catch-22 and I think Congress is going to pay a price in November.

[Straight Shooter]

12. I wonder, too.

And I love pears. For me, it isn't a case of how much I'm willing to pay, it's a case of how much can I afford. Not very much.

OTOH, it isn't fair for workers to do that kind of job for crappy wages.

It will be very interesting to see how this is resolved. Wouldn't it be sweet if Rove's little plan of bigotry blew up in the GOP's face.

[Porcupine]

15. $2 a pound. Purchased at farmers market Chico CA. Last Saturday.

Grown and picked by local, white, U.S. citizens. Those were the organic ones. The other ones wer $1.50 a lb. You folks out in the cities might have to pay an extra 50 cents.

[pinerow]

83. Local, white, U.S. citizens...???

the xenophobia sure is getting thick around here...are the buck-fifty ones cheaper because they're picked by non local, non white, undocumented workers...?

[Porcupine]

89. Just the facts maam. Wages change w/skin color & language skills

and nobody gives a damn if it's wrong. Around here the last hired are skinny white guys with tats due to the meth problem. And, yeah the $1.50 pears were grown on a huge farm south of here owned by Sikhs and picked by migrant labor.

Reality gets a little complicated in California; some days if feels like we're developing a caste system. Small organic growers are white. Strawberries and vegetables are grown by Hmong. Hispanics do most of the farm labor otherwise and white people own most of the large farms. They wouldn't dream of hireing a white kid they didn't know to work on those farms.

Stereotyping is a knife that cut in all directions.

[peteatomic]

131. The problem is what I call the "walmart mindset"-- that is, people

who almost exclusively are attracted by price solely-- and if a pear can be sold to them at 5 cents cheaper than the organic you've bought at the local farmer's market, than that's the pear they buy. It's a race to the bottom in regards to cheap, mass picked/processed foods.

...and if you approach these types with that nice organic pear & tell them how good it tastes, it doesn't matter..cuz I got a coupon for something just a bit less, and why the hell aren't you buying the cheaper shit too?
:)

[Viva_La_Revolution]

24. $.10 more per hour, based on the price of strawberries...

if that.

test my math, I been drinkin....

[anotherdrew]

45. it's not just the wages or even mostly I think

it's that there's no organization in it. if we applied the same principals that temp and day labor agencies do, transportation, housing, meals, everything could be handled. Even if it is minimum wage, if it includes free room and board and some daily overtime, it wouldn't be a bad deal. It could even catch on as a nice way to 'take a season off' from the "real world" and "get back to nature" - granted productivity might not be quite as high, but it could be kept acceptable by firing the ones too far under the average then give them a ride back to town and their money they did earn paid right then in cash. They get to go look elsewhere for work, and someone else gets to try. I really, if a little effort was put into this job, the costs wouldn't be too much more and the outcomes would be so much better for everyone. Including no doubt some legal guest workers from other countries.

[Cobalt Violet]

73. A price worth paying to end slavery. n/t

[OregonDem]

81. Slavery? These people want the jobs. People don't sign up to be slaves.

They earn ten times the wages they get in Mexico. So if slavery is low wages then keeping them in Mexico is slavery. I would rather have someone earn $5/hr than 50 cents an hour. Besides american workers have to compete with foreign laborers regardless if the border is closed or not, so whats the point in keeping the border closed? I mean besides hurting consumers and farmers what does a closed border do.

[Cobalt Violet]

88. And if they don't get paid what do they do? Where do they go?

They have no voice here. They can't vote.

[OregonDem]

135. Which is why they should be allowed to come here and become citizens

after a few years. Then their communities can become politically active. They can receive the protection of the law to prevent them from being robbed of their earnings if they are allowed to come here legally across a open border.

[pampango]

64. Well said

"Either let the migrant workers (illegal or whatever) do the job, or pay the wages that American citizens demand."

The country/government needs to make a decision as to which is a better policy. Pass a law either way and enforce it. Either make it legal for workers to come here and work (employers will pay them less, but that helps keep prices down for American consumers) or keep them out (which will force growers to pay more to attract workers just like any other business would, though this will raise prices for consumers.) There may be a compromise between the two extremes. If so figure it out, pass it into law, and enforce it.

[The_Casual_Observer]

9. That one doesn't look she ever picked any fruit.

She ought to sell that property & build some mc mansions on it.

[Porcupine]

19. Horse lots in Lake County. But close enough. nt

.

[LostinVA]

53. Yeah? I get the opposite vibe from her photo and words

And,having grown up with people who owned commercial orchards, I can tell you that they DO know the meaning of a hard day's labor.

[Porcupine]

13. Hey, maybe if they paid a decent wage they could find workers.

Just an idea.

I mean I'm just a few counties away from Lake County and there are quite a few jobless around here. It's just that when people can make as much money picking cans out of the trash as picking fruit all day in the sun they will make the obvious choice. I'm doing good to get somebody who will actually work six hours per eight paid for $12/hour. Add in the factor that there really isn't any housing for transient labor and the jobs are temporary and the result is obvious.

Good luck growers.

[Art_from_Ark]

17. I think you've identified some important points

"Add in the factor that there really isn't any housing for transient labor and the jobs are temporary and the result is obvious."

[kskiska]

28. The pay is up to $150 a day

(snip)

Some economists and advocates for farm workers say the labor shortages would ease if farmers would pay more. Lake County growers said that pickers’ pay was not low — up to $150 a day — and that they had been ready to pay even more to save their crops. “I would have raised my wages,” said Steve Winant, a pear grower whose 14-acre orchard is still laden with overripe fruit. “But there weren’t any people to pay."

[rodeodance]

16. fresh fruit/vegs prices will go up and gas down. It evens out.??

[LostInAnomie]

20. Maybe if the whole industry would have paid honest wages from the start...

... they wouldn't be in this predicament. I don't really have much pity for them. They've had their produce literally subsidized for years through our non-existent border enforcement.

Sorry there aren't enough illegal immigrants to exploit. :shrug:

[freethought]

21. I have a solution!

Have the f_____g Minutemen pick the crop! Give them a taste of the "American people's jobs that they steal".
:mad: :mad:

[KamaAina]

86. And for housing, let FEMA pull all those trailers out of the mud

y'know, the ones that have been sitting in a field in Arkansas since Katrina :evilgrin:

[libodem]

144. yeah, baby

that's just good thinkin'!

[951-Riverside]

23. GOD DAMN IT! WE NEED MORE MEXICANS TO EXPLOIT AND FAST!

:sarcasm: :eyes:

[OregonDem]

s/d

[OregonDem]

80. Is it exploitation if they want the jobs?

Someone wanting a low paying job is being exploited? I guess that job I got pumping gas when I was a teenager was exploiting me. I guess that job I worked in a cafeteria that helped put me through college was exploiting me. These people are earning ten times the wages they would earn in Mexico. A job here not only pulls them out of absolute poverty it gives their children an opportunity to get an education and a chance to leave poverty all together. If slavery is low wages then forcing them to stay in Mexico is supporting slavery.

[951-Riverside]

98. Re: Someone wanting a low paying job is being exploited?

You know the same question was probably raised during slavery, obviously slaves WANTED to be chained up and worked to death for the free food and boarding. :sarcasm: and lets not forget those poor children working for the sex trade in thailand, by your standards they're not being exploited they enjoy having their innocence and short lives destroyed for money. Give me a break :eyes:

[OregonDem]

125. Children can be taken advantge of and therefore can be exploited

Adults are old enough to know what best for them they cannot be exploited if they freely making their own choices. They are coming here of their own free will for a better life, unlike slaves who were forcibly taken from their homes and forced to work. If people are chaining immigrants and forcing them to work then thats slavery. Immigrants are worse off with closed borders because they cannot take jobs that are higher paying in the other country.

[kineneb]

25. I live in Lake County

on the other side of the lake. The lack of pickers was caused by a number of problems.

1. There simply are not enough local people able to pick the harvest- the population of the entire county is 65,000. I figured out the other day that 25% of the population here is over age 60. Lots of people retire here because the land prices are cheaper and the weather is moderate. They don't have to worry about the lack of full-time employment.

2. The pear growers are competing with the grape growers for the same transient labor pool. Growers must rely on outside labor for the three weeks of the harvest (see #1).

3. The pear and grape harvest occurred at the same time this year, due to late spring rains.

4. The pay scale here is much lower than other areas, $10/hr is a good wage here, so the wage issue for locals is moot.

5. As to employing the locals on assistance...there is no way they would want to get a temp job, and then have to re-apply for assistance 3 weeks afterwards. I have had to do some of the paperwork to qualify for medical assistance, and it is a absolute nightmare. Three weeks of income is not worth the hassle.

[LostinVA]

55. Good post -- that's how it was where I grew up, too

Close to Seabrook Farms, orchards, etc.

[eleny]

27. Corporate growers are licking their lips over this

When the smallish family growers go out of business, the corporates and developers benefit. Chalk one of for big agra-business.

[kineneb]

31. fairly meaningless here

the area is too isolated for the corps. to be interested. There is no freeway into the county... all main roads are winding two lanes, through the hills. Get out a California map and check out highways 20 and 29. We don't measure distance in miles here, rather, we measure it in time. The closest freeway, I-5, is 45 min. away.

What may happen is the pear growers simply go out of business, the trees get pulled out and the land is left bare. I doubt that the land would be used for housing, since the boom is going bust right now.

[eleny]

32. Do you think the small gorwers will make it through this?

How many seasons like this can they keep going? Just wondering since you're there.

Colorado home sales are really soft. Modest homes in our area are sitting for sale a year now.

[kineneb]

37. don't know

Lake Co. has a long history of agriculture. We were famous for green beans, then grapes and pears. From what I have read, we had wine grapes here long before anyone thought of growing them in the Napa or Sonoma valleys. When Prohibition came, they pulled out the grapevines and planted pears and walnuts. Now we have lots of grapes again. Perhaps the days of pears are over.

[eleny]

39. Thanks for all your information

It would be a shame if small family run growers went out of business. I can't see the benefit of that.

I appreciate learning more about your area. Google Earth should help turn up some interesting photographs.

[kineneb]

92. Clear Lake

which is actually more green than clear, is one of the oldest lakes in the continental US. It is in the caldera of an ancient volcano, and next to it is Mt. Konocti, another volcano. Lots of cool geology here. Most of the county is uninhabited USFS and state forest lands. It has been a popular vacation spot since the 1880s, at least. There used to be lots of resorts at the local hot springs, where city folk would come to "take the waters".

The lake should show up on maps of Northen California quite well. We are 2.5 hours north of San Francisco.

[LostinVA]

54. That's exactly what some posters on this thread don't get

The woman in the article is the victim, too, of the Government and of agra-business. SHE'S the type we should be trying to help in some way -- along with the pickers.

[KurtNYC]

62. She advocated for a bill to "allow" 16 & 17YO to work 60 hours a week

Chesbro has worked closely with (Toni) Scully on passing SB 912, legislation that continued a State law allowing 16 and 17-year-olds to work up to 60 hours per week in packing sheds during summer months. The legislation was necessary to continue the program which has provided jobs and a wonderful life experience to hundreds of local teenagers.

http://democrats.sen.ca.gov/templates/SDCTemplate.asp?a=5310&z=137&cp=PressRelease&pg=article&fpg=senpressreleases&sln=Chesbro&sdn=02

So it sounds like she has tried to hire through legitimate means.

Not sure how 60/hours a week in a packing shed = "a wonderful life experience" ?!

[One_Life_To_Give]

71. Did the 48/wk at 14/15

I wouldn't call working in the fields (Shade tobacco) a wonderful experience. But it wasn't horrific either. And having all that money at the end of the season made it worth the effort. As I would still have money left at the start of the following years season. (Eventually it went to pay for school)

At 14/15 I was limited to 48hrs per week, 8hrs/6days. If they are getting time and a half, that extra 2hrs per day is not really that much harder. A 16/17 yr old should be able to make that choice. Particularly as the work is only seasonal and we are not expecting 16/17yr olds to work 60hrs/52wks.

[kath]

120. But back then, I'd bet you were making quite a bit more than minimum wage,

no? And, if corrected for inflation more than what pickers are paid now.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't students used to take these jobs because, even though it was hard work, you could make a lot more money than you could slinging burgers at McD's?

Granted, most wages have not kept up with inflation over the past few decades. But with the huge numbers of illegal immigrants, I'd be willing to bet that farm wages lag even farther behind inflation than the typical wage.

The growers have become spoiled by having this huge pool of illegals willing to work for pathetic wages. If they paid a decent wage, Americans would do the work.

[NotGivingUp]

140. "a wonderful life experience" ...yeah, that line was a real hoot!

[GoddessOfGuinness]

146. Subsidies for small farmers who pay pickers a living wage?

We could help pay for it by cutting the tax breaks Dumbyass has handed to the monopolies.

[w4rma]

30. I'm soo sorry that you couldn't exploit enough Mexicans this year.

Don't worry, I'm sure that we can find a way for you to exploit some non-English speaking brown people next year.

Maybe we can pass an indentured servitude bill for immigrants, soon?

Or maybe we can quit enforcing border laws and look the other way some more.

[eridani]

48. Why not try offering $15/an hour?

That would solve their problems quickly enough. And lord only knows that for poor people it's rent and utilities, not food, that are the big budget breakers.

[LostinVA]

56. It sounds like they were offering much higher than normal wages

But, if there are no people to pick, wages don't matter.

[Demit]

50. Perhaps Americans don't have an inalienable right to cheap food year round

If it's a choice between keeping prices artificially low by exploiting labor and having some foods go back up to being luxury items again, and only available in their season again, I'll take the latter. They'll probably even go back to tasting good again. Who wants those red tennis balls they call tomatoes in winter anyway?

[The Backlash Cometh]

58. Pay your workers a fair wage, and you will have them beating down

your door. God, they do whine.

[4dsc]

60. She didn't call Manpower or Labor ready?? n/t

[Viva_La_Revolution]

70. She'd be paying $16-18 per hour, per laborer

and the laborer would be making $7.50 to $8. No one would be willing to go out there and pick, when they could stay in town and make the same amount at a less physically demanding assignment.

[kineneb]

91. isolated area

closest "big" city is Santa Rosa, 1.5 hours from harvest area, with no regular transit through the hills. See my post above. The human resources simply were not available this year.

[One_Life_To_Give]

68. Teens don't need jobs anymore?

We used to run a bus from the city out to the tobacco farms when I grew up. At 14 it was the best money that could be found.

[kineneb]

90. teens can work there

but... the harvest was late this year, and some schools were already in session. The growers do in fact have an agreement with the county schools regarding employment. Throw into the mix the NCLB testing crap, and students really don't want to work during school hours.

[watercolors]

69. I beleive this is a set up

I bet a deal has been made with growers. The adminsitration wants the imigration bill passed. They can now respond by saying look, we don't have enoough workers to fill the jobs! I can hardly believe pickers cannot be found, every community has a day labor office! I"ve seen mexicans on the corners with signs looking for work.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

72. Until just a few weeks ago, I worked out of a day labor office...

Those guys are not going to go out and pick, when they can stay in town and do construction, landscaping, etc.

[LostinVA]

74. No, I can totally believe this

Having grown up in an area very like this.

[Cobalt Violet]

75. Perhaps the past pear picker are now in construction, meat packing...

And plenty of other jobs Americans won't do for slave wages anymore.

[kineneb]

93. not around here

Some are in construction, but tourism is our major "industry". And it is seasonal, just as is agriculture. We loose lots of young people in their 20s to other areas due to lack of employment. There are not a lot of full-time jobs here.

[transeo]

76. But, but, but the immigrants are stealing our jobs ... n/t

[951-Riverside]

102. You forgot to add ILLEGAL and EXPLOITED and....

They're not exactly stealing these jobs, these rich white repuke farm and construction business owners are replacing Americans for poor people who doesn't know any better. I wish Cesar Chavez were live today he wouldn't stand for this.

[OregonDem]

77. Saying immigration hurts American workers is BULLSHIT

Open borders bring people in poverty out of it. Closed borders hurt businesses, consumers, farmers and doesn't help the American worker at all BECAUSE they still has to compete with foriegn labor in other countries regardless if the border is open or not.
We have hundreds of people dieing every year trying to cross the border just for the chance to help their families rise out of poverty. These deaths are unneccessary and could be avoided if the right stopped being racist and some people on the left actually learned something about economics.

[951-Riverside]

99. but no one is saying immigration or immigrants are hurting Americans

What people are tired of is these fat white business owners exploiting these illegal immigrants because they are willing to work for shitty wages with no benefits. Also we can stop the needless deaths by doing two things 1. Force these low life farm owners to pay fair wages WITH benefits or 2. Jail these low life farm owners for exploiting and intimidating immigrants.

By the way OregonDem do you work for the farm industry or hire illegal immigrants for shitty wages, I ask because you seem to be on the side of those who do.

[OregonDem]

128. Yes people crossing the closed borders are illegal but that doesn't mean

the law isn't stupid.

No I don't employ illegals, I do feel for those that have to live on 50 cents an hour in Mexico because we think paying them $5 an hour here is too little. They are living in much greater poverty because of the closed border, why can't people see that. Adults who are freely making their own choices cannot be exploited, children can certainly be taken advantage of since they are not old enought to make their own choices. Open borders fights poverty because it gives laborers more options to choose higher paying jobs, closing the border limits their choices.

[Doremus]

104. So I take it you're a big fan of NAFTA, CAFTA, WTO etc etc

"Closed borders hurt businesses..."

Amazing that we were able to function so well back when immigration quotas were enforced and before the alphabet-soup trade agreements, isn't it?

If only we had known how bad off we really were then ...

But, hey, let's not think of such downers now that we're livin' the high life! Yee haw.

[OregonDem]

126. Im a big fan of free trade

Check out this link that compares nations who have free trade vs those that don't.

[Thickasabrick]

84. The article said these growers are solid republican. I don't give

a shit now. You reap what you sow.

[951-Riverside]

100. Thank You.

[greccogirl]

113. If they paid

decent wages they could get pickers.

[treestar]

116. She needs to ask for H-2 visas

for temporary or seasonal work.

[OregonDem]

129. H-2 visas aren't used by very many farmers or businesses

Because employers that use them are required to pay the prevailing agriculture wage, provide free housing, provide adequate meals at a reasonable charge, and pay all transportation cost from the border to the work site. If you have to pay workers the same wage and pay for their housing and all that then its actually more expensive to hire immigrants. Those few businesses that do use H-2 visas often treat their workers poorly since the can at any time end the visa which means the workers must then return immediately to their home country. So the worker has to put up with abuse for fear that if they complain they will be deported.

[treestar]

141. That's a flaw in our laws - the trouble with letting the government

get involved in hiring decisions. I am convinced the economy would run better if the employers got to pick the employees and the government just had to give a visa to whoever was hired (subject to background checks, yadda yadda).

[Nikia]

142. I agree

The visas are designed for situations just like this one. There may be drawbacks, but the growers could get workers this way especially if the decision is that or lose the crop.

[gulliver]

118. More Republican meddling. Everything they touch turns to crap.

They decided they needed to run on immigration this year because Iraq was so out of control. So now the immigration issue is also out of control.

[GETPLANING]

119. Laura Ingram blames the farmers

I caught Laura Ingram today, blaming the pear growers for not paying the fruit pickers enough money to risk crossing the border. I shit you not. These people will sat ANYTHING to avoid reality.

[amandabeech]

122. What these farmers need to do is provide decent summer housing.

That's what the farmers do in my home area of Michigan which is the second largest producer of red tart cherries, the kind that fills your pie and sits on top of your cheesecake. Although there is a four-lane highway through the area (U.S. 31), the entire county's population at March census time is about 25,000. There is a small city about 45 miles away, but no public transit.

The farmers offer housing as a cost of doing business. They don't complain much because otherwise there would be no summer help. Farmers have fixed up farm houses abandoned due to consolidation of farms, have renovated and added on to the one-room school houses that were abandoned in the '60s, and have built prefab buildings and towed in double wides. Most of the housing is not beautiful, but each has working appliances, safe electrical wiring, modern baths and furnaces for cool spring nights during the asparagus harvest and cool fall nights during the apple harvest.

I picked cherries by hand in the summers before I turned 16. It is not pleasant with the bees and wasps hovering around and cherry juice leaking from the bucket that you strap across your upper abdomen. But when I was young, many older children and early adolescents did it. Older teenagers could make better money serving the tourists one way or another, but if the farmers had paid more, they probably would have had more local help.

[Desperadoe]

123. Plane Wreck At Los Gatos (Deportee) - 1948

Plane Wreck At Los Gatos (Deportee)

The crops are all in and the peaches are rott'ning,
The oranges piled in their creosote dumps;
They're flying 'em back to the Mexican border
To pay all their money to wade back again

Goodbye to my Juan, goodbye, Rosalita,
Adios mis amigos, Jesus y Maria;
You won't have your names when you ride the big airplane,
All they will call you will be "deportees"

My father's own father, he waded that river,
They took all the money he made in his life;
My brothers and sisters come working the fruit trees,
And they rode the truck till they took down and died.

Some of us are illegal, and some are not wanted,
Our work contract's out and we have to move on;
Six hundred miles to that Mexican border,
They chase us like outlaws, like rustlers, like thieves.

We died in your hills, we died in your deserts,
We died in your valleys and died on your plains.
We died 'neath your trees and we died in your bushes,
Both sides of the river, we died just the same.

The sky plane caught fire over Los Gatos Canyon,
A fireball of lightning, and shook all our hills,
Who are all these friends, all scattered like dry leaves?
The radio says, "They are just deportees"

Is this the best way we can grow our big orchards?
Is this the best way we can grow our good fruit?
To fall like dry leaves to rot on my topsoil
And be called by no name except "deportees"?

Words by Woody Guthrie and Music by Martin Hoffman
© 1961 (renewed) by TRO-Ludlow Music, Inc.

[bhikkhu]

127. The structure of our society discourages seasonal labor

Those trades that are somewhat seasonal and traditionally held by citizens, such as construction, tend to be highly skilled and well paid, so that yearly income is adequate. As one who struggled with a long unemployment in the early * years, the income from a week or two picking peaches, or strawberries or so forth, offers little certainty against the steady stream of monthly bills. Even a part time job paying less has an advantage in security. I don't think wages could be practically raised to the point that residents here - accustomed to an "american" lifestyle, would consider seasonal labor in any significant numbers.

So that is to say the problem is structural, and has resolved itself historically as free markets tend to resolve things - in this case migrant workers unimbedded in our demanding economy provide the labor.

[earth mom]

134. Where's the common sense here?

:wtf:

If those growers REALLY wanted that fruit picked they would have found a way. Obviously they weren't willing to pay or do enough to get workers there-legal or not-and so they figured they could get a bigger tax right off by blowing the harvest off. The so called "shortage" of workers is a TOTAL joke and a lie!

Anyone with any common sense can see there are not enough workers for what the growers were WILLING-KEY WORD to pay! And anyone with any common sense would take a job that paid themselves better-a job that was probably much more secure/long term and maybe offered some benefits!

It's no secret those growers offered very little to their workers-low pay, hard labor, difficult/uncomfortable conditions, and no benefits! And they wonder WHY they can't find workers! Give me a frickin break!!! :eyes:

[bhikkhu]

139. Agreement on some points,

but the growers don't set the prices. In the "free market" it may be cheaper to import pears from another country (paying its laborers much less than our low pay), and cheaper for the growers to let the fruit rot than to pay more for labor and sell it below cost. I'm not saying its not a screwed up situation, but I would assume that the growers have done the math and simply cut their losses rather than increasing them.

[Pierzin]

136. On Peter Werbe right now

I wonder how many of these farmers are gonna vote for Repukes now???

That is a real tragedy to see all that food go to waste, tragic for the farmers and everyone else...

[Rex]

138. Republicans sure know how to fuck up a good thing.

Not that a buck an hour is good, but it is a lot of money in Mexico.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

149. Pay more. Charge more. Stop crying.

eom

[beyond_the_pale]

153. American Pears vs Argentina Pears

Publix Markets in South Florida sells pears grown in Argentina.

I don't understand why we throw fruit away on one side of the country and then import it from South America.
If given a choice many shoppers would be willing to pay more for domestic produce. Just put up signs: These pears imported from Argentina cost 1.99 per pound, these pears grown in California cost 2.99 per pound. Some advertising would help to. For instance put the lady in the above picture in the ad. Then see what happens.

There must be an agreement somewhere that says we "must" buy X number of pears from Argentina. The same kind of agreement that says that California must ship oranges to Florida and vice versa. Its been that way forever.

[lovuian]

155. They need to obviously pay better wages

mcDonalds and Burger King are beating them out...