Bush will kill me: Chavez

[RangerSmith]

Bush will kill me: Chavez
From correspondents in Caracas
September 24, 2006
VENEZUELAN President Hugo Chavez accused his American counterpart George W. Bush overnight of ordering his assassination for calling the US leader the devil during his speech at the United Nations this week.

"The devil appears very sulphurous, and a few people say that he has given the order to kill me," Chavez said during a speech before scientists in western Venezuela.

"Many concerned friends have called me, (saying) that because I said 'devil' over there (at the UN), they have sentenced me to die. They will not kill me, I have much faith in life," Mr Chavez added.

The leftist Venezuelan leader called Mr Bush "the devil", "a liar" and a "tyrant" during his speech at the UN General Assembly on Wednesday, one day after the US President spoke from the same podium.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20467604-23109,00.html

[whistle]

1. I think the order went out because Bush seems to have a spring

...to his step and a focus in thought and speech now, that was not there a few days ago.

[Imajika]

3. Nonsense...

This is just Chavez making crap up. Chavez says whatever he thinks will play well with the audience he wishes to target - it makes no difference to him whether what he says is true or not.

[whistle]

20. Just like George Bush who also says things whether those things

...are true or not. What does intelligence show to support or refute Chavez's claim? Any idea?

[saigon68]

112. No Hugo---- John (Nun Rapist) Negroponte is going to KILL you

Raping John is already trying

[w4rma]

55. There is more freedom of speech in Venezuela than in the US

Flanker writes:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2187974
There is more freedom of speech in Venezuela than in the US
I have lived on the latter and currently live in the former, and find the accusations to be the real caricature, when most are either lying (Bolton) or simply don't know. Anyone is welcome to find out instead of linking to HRW articles that are themselves foreign to reality. I will add this post to my journal in case anybody wants to link to it.


Jailed Journalists

There are 0 jailed journalists in Venezuela http://www.cpj.org/attacks05/pages05/imprison_05.html a few stood trial but none were jailed, the only one that may go to jail if caught is Patricia Poleo and indeed the only one to flee the country (currently in the states) she is wanted for being an intellectual mastermind of the Danilo Anderson murder though.

There are four main private TV channels over the airwaves:

Globovision http://www.globovision.com/index.php If I recall the only 24 hour news channel that is broad casted (ie using public airwaves) in the world, they are DEEPLY opposed to Chavez and his government, Fox News does not hold a candle to it, if you want to see it for yourself there is a video link (in spanish obviously), but you may have to pay a fee, if you do watch prime time programing.

RCTV http://www.rctv.net / More of a variety channel, its newscasts and opinion is DEEPLY opposed to the government, They normally appear in the morning or later at night, they have a free video cast, its owner Marciel Granier is also a vocal Chavez critic.

Venevision http://www.venevision.net / Used to be like the above, but they are a bit more moderate nowadays (moderate is defined by just showing the other side, it is that bad) Mostly because its owner Cisneros has more or less accepted his lack of real power, and he has plenty of other business interests in the country.

Televen http://www.venevision.net / Another variety channel, similar to Venevision, they are more moderate because the government advertises on it or at least that is a theory, extremists were also fired from their time slots, but it had more to do with lower ratings than anything else, The more extremist the channel the lower the ratings it gets, and they keep getting lower.

There are three public TV Channels over the airwaves + Telesur (cable only I think)

VTV: http://www.vtv.gov.ve / The original public Channel, there are plans to turn it into a 24 hour news channel, today it is closer in style to PBS culture, variety, news, opinion. Of course it is openly ideological to Chavez on opinion programing. it has a video link.

Vive: www.vive.gob.ve / a new public channel, mostly for political documentaries, don't watch it much

ANTV: www.antv.gob.ve / C-Span clone, controlled by the Legislature.

Radio

There are far too many to show them all, so I will go with the two major ones:

Union Radio http://www.unionradio.com.ve / Privately owned, the only one that has a direct equivalent in the states, it is
right wing talk radio, same extremism, same ethical standards, though with musical intermissions, http://200.74.220.116:8080/ramgen/encoder/noticias.rm here is an audio link (spanish) recommend the afternoons. A recent conspiracy theory two of their talking heads posited yesterday was that VTV digitally added the applauses to Chavez speech... that type of irrationality.

RNV http://www.rnv.gov.ve/noticias / Similar to VTV but on radio, has an audio link.

Print

Now it gets easier because a few of them can be easily read online and translated to with google or altavista.

El Universal www.eud.com Strong opposition newspaper, check out their opinion pieces in particular http://opinion.eluniversal.com / they also have an english version but that never makes the print edition so why bother.

El Nacional http://el-nacional.com / Another opposition newspaper, articles can be read by paid subscription

Tal Cual http://www.talcualdigital.com / Another strong Chavez critic, its editor and star writer attempted a campaign for the presidency but failed to get more than 3% in the press polls, he now backs the unity opposition candidate, the only credit he gets is that on occasion he blisters the opposition as well. Also has paid subscription.

Panorama www.panodi.com Regional Zulia paper and perhaps the most sympathetic to Chavez in all of the privately owned media. free but lousy archives.

Ultimas Noticias http://www.ultimasnoticias.com.ve / The most neutral media in the country and most sold newspaper, displacing both El Universal and Nacional during this political saga. paid subscription.

There are plenty more opposition papers but I have not read them in detail you can find the rest here: http://www.prensaescrita.com/america/venezuela.php in particular el mundo, nuevo pais, notitarde, etc. all opposition papers.

Internet

Common citizens also have their say and it generally more radicalized

Noticiero Digital www.noticierodigital.com on the surface it si an opinion aggregator (visually elegant as well, check out their opinion pieces on the right) but its forums http://www.noticierodigital.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=1... is a freerpublic like clone, only more extreme (there is the occasional Pinochet appreciation thread). Its only saving grace is that anyone can post regardless of political affiliation, just that there are far fewer Chavistas.

aporrea http://aporrea.org / The other side of the coin. Less extreme because they are less angry.

A political cartoons can also bridge the language divide published in Tal Cual.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2187974
madfloridian writes:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2193740
Chavez to help 1.2 million families in US with fuel for heating.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/fn/4205560.html

"Chavez also announced that Citgo, the U.S.-based refining arm of Venezuela's state-run oil company, plans to more than double the amount of heating oil it is making available under the program to 100 million gallons this winter, up from 40 million gallons.

He said the oil will reach people in 17 states, including Indians in Alaska, some of whom were flown to New York for the ceremony and attended in traditional dress. They performed a traditional dance for Chavez and offered him a walrus figurine carved out of whale bone as a gift.

"This will go a long way for a lot of families," said Ian Erlich, a leader of the Alaska Intertribal Council who said many people struggle to afford heating oil where he lives in Kotzebue, Alaska, north of the Artic Circle.

Chavez started the heating oil program last winter, accusing Bush of neglecting the poor. Citgo says up to 1.2 million people will benefit this winter."

Also he warned Bush not to try to oust him again...

""If that were to happen, the price of oil could reach $200 a barrel," Chavez said, adding that he'd like to see a U.S. president "who you could talk with."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2193740

[Emillereid]

83. Thanks so much for this well reasoned and informative response --

perhaps you should send it to all the mass media.

[KansDem]

100. Substitute "Bush" for "Chavez" in your statement...

...and you've got the prelude to the Iraq war.

[classysassy]

110. Kinda like our president

[ShortnFiery]

52. Well, if Dear Leader wants to regain control of Central and South

America, he best not kill Chavez. But these Neo-Cons are driven by petty greed and arrogance. If Chavez is executed he will be *adored* as a martyr. People will (like they did in Vietnam and are now doing in Iraq) NOT EVER SUBMIT to The American Empire. They will fight to the death and to the last citizen.

Oh yeah, if anything, they'll probably TRY to execute Chavez, if only because Dear Leader never fails to practice his Reverse-Midas Touch. :shrug:

[Imajika]

2. Why this guy is a hero..

..for so many here on DU is a mystery to me.

Chavez is clown. Pure and simple. His antics, while occassional amusing, are simply not the stuff of a serious leader of any nation.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised considering Castro and even Mugabe have their fans here, but it is still depressing.

[shanti]

4. right

:eyes: that's what they said about howard dean too.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lumpy]

9. It is depressing

that some people support the Bush administration in their attempt to demonize the elected leaders of sovereign nations.

[Imajika]

16. No..

Some people just aren't willing to support anyone who criticizes or mocks Bush. Bush has been a disaster of a President, but that does not mean I will throw my support behind anyone who has something bad to say about him.

Bush is bad, and Chavez is bad. Both are clowns.

I just don't know what it is about people here. It seems a persons ticket to adulation is to criticize Bush, no matter how loathesome the person otherwise is.

Lou Dobbs is a xenophobic conservative, yet he is often heralded as some sort of hero simply because he criticizes Bush. The same goes for anti-semite Pat Buchanan. Both of these guys oppose virtually everything I believe in, and I am unwilling to support them in any way, shape or form simply because they criticize Bush.

I detest Chavez. I consider him a marxist demogogue. I believe the economic model he believes in and ultimately plans to impose is doomed to failure. I believe he is a lousy statesmen, and I don't like the fact that, just like Bush, he sticks his nose into the domestic affairs of pretty much every Central and South American nation.

I am a Democrat, not a Castro supporting socialist. And that is true of the majority of us in the Democratic Party.

[951-Riverside]

38. I am a Democrat not a peace lovin', long hair, tie dye wearing hippie!!!!

Can I get a white p... err I mean USA! USA! :P :sarcasm:

but let get series for just a moment, Joe Lieberman, Zell Miller and Toby Keith are Democrats too so I don't see your point ;) . I will admit I never understood the infatuation with Chavez but I totally agree and support what he said about Bush during the UN summit, lets not forget Bush likes to call other nations the Axis of Evil and other world leaders "Evildoers".

[Endangered Specie]

59. amen to that

dont feel too bad there are a number of chavez/castro critics here :hi:

[Zorra]

74. I'm a Democrat, and I despise Castro, but I love it when Chavez

trashes Bu*h. Then again, I love it when anybody trashes Bu*h. He just so deserves to be trashed.

Chavez is in a unique position; he has, IMO, the resources and circumstances necessary to set up the world's first "genuine" social democracy. The type of democracy that provides all the basics necessary for individuals to start equally and encourage individual opportunity while at the same time preventing malicious corporate monopolies from controlling the government and exploiting the people for profit.

We'll see what he does with this unique situation - if he really is a good guy, the people of Venezuela could flourish without being in the horrid type of pseudo-Marxist lockdown that denies individual opportunity...that is, of course, if Bu*h does not indeed have him assassinated sometime soon.

[Karenina]

76. Why do you despise Castro?

:shrug:

[Zorra]

79. A close friend that is an Anthropology Professor spent considerable

time in Cuba, on two seperate occasions, and I trust her opinion. She's highly educated and a flaming liberal, BTW.

We have talked a lot about her time in Cuba, and she told me that it appears to her that Castro is a total egomaniac, and that his picture appears everywhere in Cuba as the "great fearless leader", so to speak. Slogans are everywhere. She also told me that there is little or no opportunity in Cuba, and that many people suffer from what is known (in Cuba, at least) as "goron", (I believe that is the word she used), which literally means "sparrow", but in this case refers to a debilitating melancholia that stems from almost complete lack of opportunity for economic self-advancement, other than within the ranks of the Communist Party. Apparently there is rampant alcoholism due to this syndrome. It also appears that it is extremely difficult for Cubans to travel outside of Cuba.

On the positive side, she told me that the people in Cuba are, in general, extremely well educated, and that their health care system is excellent.

So my beef with Castro stems from his apparent egomania and the restrictions on personal liberty that he has apparently imposed on the people of Cuba.

[SenorSanchez]

107. He did point nuclear missiles at us in the 1960s

and he is communist and repeatly says how great communism is even though our economy is probablly one million times that of Cubas. Chavez will fail like most other socialist-communist leaders before him. History has proven that a communistic state can not work in the real world because people aren't machines, they need chances to improve there life, and a possibility for riches beyond there wildest dreams. In a communistic society that is impossible. Human nature doesn't make communism viable. Communism is a great THEORY, but is impractical, just ask the Soviet Union. Communism gives too much power to the government and we all know that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[NJCher]

105. simplistic assessment

...that does not mean I will throw my support behind anyone who has something bad to say about him.

People like Chavez because he walks the walk. He helps the poor with lower priced heating oil. He is organizing a movement against American hegemony. The policies in his country are progressive and wipe the democratic facade off the oligarchy that is the United States.

The Chavez mocking, public derision, and out and out bluntness about bush and his chronies is like the frosting on a cake. Give people some credit and don't be so simple minded in your assessments of why he has so much support and acclaim here.




Cher

[billbuckhead]

11. Chavez speaks truth to power, even to the devil

Reality has a well known liberal bias.

[Imajika]

21. I also detest the phrase...

..."truth to power". It's just been so overdone. Come on now, someone please come up with something new.

What Chavez does is make outlandish statements and do whatever he can to get press attention. If Bush had called anyone the devil, everyone on DU would be rightfully calling him a pathetic statesmen and a clown.

[951-Riverside]

39. Re: "If Bush had called anyone the devil"

...Evildoer ;)

[kaneko]

62. Not to forget

that he called Kim "a loathsome pigmy"!!

[bitchkitty]

46. What Chavez does is get elected.

[IntiRaymi]

51. You have fallen victim to the spin

Chavez is important because he has decided, with much nerve, to establish a center of power in South America that excludes the usual power circles in Washington. If you do not like his style, well, you will just have to deal with your sense of aesthetics - but you also need to get past the surface and realize that this man has done much good for the people of Venezuela.
I know plenty of Venzuelans, here in the USA, and the are - for the most part - member of the wealthy elites. And you know what? They spout the same-exact-crap that you have been posting.

[Fierce]

63. Slight drift, but I totally agree about "truth to power."

What did speaking truth to power ever do? If the other side truly has the power, they don't give a shit. If we celebrate "truth to power," then we admit that the other side has the power, and that we don't want it, because power is somehow bad. The whole phrase is just meaningless and overused.

Whew, thanks for letting me get that off my chest.

[emcguffie]

69. The person who is really out of line at the UN --

-- who is really full of hubris, who is really deeply insulting, is the President of our country.

He is the one who is way, way, way out of line. And he does, indeed, act like he owns the place. The US acts like the UN is theirs to direct. Anything they do not approve of, it is not to happen. Period. That is all there is. No discussion.

At the UN, the US acts like a great big dictator. Insults and offends most of the rest of the world. And it is not US territory, by the way.

[harun]

77. He uses colorful language so people here his message

Unfortunately the media doesn't report anything unless it is crazy like that.

[Adelante]

82. What Chavez does is help the Right wherever he goes

We're weeks from the critical 2006 elections we've been working toward for a year. Did we really need this idiot to go up there and make Bush look good? Christ almighty, no thanks, Hugo, stay the fuck home. Imajika, picture if Bush went to Caracas to a church or lecture hall and called Chavez the devil. What would DU be saying then? The hypocrisy around here reeks lately.

[Judi Lynn]

84. You've apparently missed a lot of history in the last few years.

Take time to keep track of what _Bush has done to destroy Hugo Chavez and his administration, from the earliest days of his stolen pResidency.

Claiming you can reverse the situation hypothetically is wildly stupid, as Chavez has not attempted to overthrow the U.S. government.

[Adelante]

91. Ho hum nt

[PassingFair]

120. We went there and DEPOSED him! Ho hum nt

[Bridget Burke]

85. When the Chavez-haters stop using the word "thug"....

We'll try to alter our vocabulary in order to appease you.

Edited to add: Perusal of this thread indicates that "clown" may now be the Right Wing Descriptor Of Choice. I'd been pointing out the idiocy of "thug." Guess somebody was listening.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NaturalHigh]

14. I'm with you.

Chavez is little more than a clown. I don't understand his popularity around here, except that he hates Bush.

[retread]

17. Oh, I don't know maybe because of:

1 - Mision Bario Adentro "... a series of initiatives deployed in 3 distinct stages to provide free, comprehensive and high-quality community health and dental care in hospitals and clinics (aided by 20,000 Cuban doctors). More than 500 centers providing medical care have been built.."

2 - Mision Mercal "...provides access to high quality produce, grains, dairy products and meat at affordable prices. It also provides the poor with better access to nutritious, safe, organic locally and nationally grown foods as well as attempting to increase Venezuela's food sovereignty."

3 - Mision Robinson "... uses volunteers to teach the poor to read and write. In 2004 it had raised the literacy rate to an impressive 99% of the population having so far enrolled nearly 1.4 million people, nearly 1.3 of whom have successfully completed the program.."

4 -Mision Ribas "... nearly 29 thousand education centers around the country provides a high school education to Venezuelans of all ages..."

5 - Mision Sucre "... provides access to higher education to all Venezuelans with a high school or equivalency degree." "...education now is completely free through the university level..."

6 - Misiones Guaicaipuro and Habitat "...restore communal land titles and human rights to the country's poor and indigenous peoples as well as defend their rights against resource and financial speculation by dominant business interests..."

If this is what a "clown" does, the world could use a hell of a lot more of them!

[robbibaba]

45. thank you!

[Amonester]

48. All doomed to failure because...

Chavez is a marxist demogogue... /sarcasm

(Note: no links to any evidence.)

[eleny]

68. A healthy and educated population is a definite threat to U.S. hegemony

Both are powerful forces against domination. No wonder this administration is stifling both here in the USA.

[Double T]

19. I'll take a clown that gives a damn about the poor and needy.......

over an idiot that ONLY cares about the filthy rich, any day.

[EarthNeedsHope]

23. He's done great things in his country and continent

And you say he's a "clown"? Do you have any idea of US-Latin American history? He's right to fear for his life.

[katinmn]

28. You can have Junior, I'll have Chavez as president!

[earth mom]

29. Stop buying into the right wing meme about Chavez and Castro.

You must be listening to Faux and CNN way too much. Turn that crap off and take a look at what both Chavez and Castro have done for their people! They may not be perfect, but they have helped their people! And that's why people around here support them! Which CAN NOT be said for the U.S. government! Who are, as a matter of fact, harming the majority of people in this country more than helping them! IE: Iraq War, Katrina, systematic destruction of the middle class by outsourcing of jobs and crushing unions and wages, systematic destruction of social programs like welfare, medicare and soon on the block: social security. The list is endless! This country is in a class war and the sooner people sit up and take notice the better!

Maybe you are sitting pretty and have NO worries. Whatever.

Meanwhile, the majority of us are getting screwed over on a daily basis! :grr:

[durtee librul]

94. yeah and just remember

that demogouge (oops) Lou Dobbs has been saying the same thing now for years.....conservative that he is.........one of the few educated ones who sees thru the Shrub and his destructive policies...I'm with having a leader who cares about his real constituency....not the ones who broke the law to get here and haven't made an effort to right that wrong in 20 plus years.....

[EFerrari]

36. Yeah -- his antics. Like providing heating oil to poor Americans

and developing his countries infrastructure and challenging the Cabal that owns you.

Not a serious leader like George "My Pet Goat" Bush.

:rofl:

[citizen snips]

47. because he fights for the poor.

[aquart]

66. Define "serious leader." Seriously.

He's made contracts with China and other countries while we've been pottering in the MidEast. HE is building alliances while we have been trashing them.

Seems to be behaving exactly like a serious leader to me.

[pretzel4gore]

67. I admire President Chavez, and despise goofy dubia

aka junyer (bush)...i notice you mention Mugabe and Castro, both leaders of nations born in the blood of insurrection, and both forced to develop while they were cheek by jowls with massively militarily superior sworn enemies, south africa and the usa; are you a racist? there's nothing wrong with being racist, it's a learned response, but why do you criticise men whose very survival says they're alot smarter, and tougher then a punk like 'jebs' brother geeb (aka dubia)? ...what would Zimbabwe be like, or Cuba for that matter, had south africa and the usa prevailed against Mugabe and Fidel? what was Venezuela like before Chavez?

[NeoConsSuck]

70. Sure!

Bush-> My Pet Goat
Chavez->Hegemony or Survival.

And I would put money, if there was such a thing as a 'global election', Chavez would wipe up the floor in a head-to-head match against your president.

[hogwyld]

124. God Bless Hugo Chavez!

At least he is a legitimately elected representative. unlike our current commander in thief. I would trade a * presidency for a Chavez presidency any day, any way.

[NOLADEM]

5. Probably true

[pooja]

6. People here are very mistrusting of MSM.... so, why do you

just throw away anything the man says. If you didn't really get the context of the speech... maybe you should watch the whole delivery...Chavez had the UN laughing at Bush. Dismissing Lord Pissy Pants. But MSM only showed you the little bit like he was a ranting mad man. That man got the general assembly to laugh mockingly at the Bush. I wish he would speak more often.

[patricia92243]

22. Bush's history has been to destroy anybody who dare criticize them - the D

Dixie Chicks, Plamegate, - the list is too long to count here. Those people are just a bunch of nobodies in comparison to Chavez, And Chavez made his statements to the UN.

Normally, I would say it was silly to say that anybody was out to "get" Chavez. But with the Bush regime - I wonder? Remember, we are at war in Iraq because "Saddam tried to kill my father." Bush is not your normal person.

[retread]

24. I may have missed the others, but your's is the first take on what

happened at the U.N. I've seen here that coincides with my impression. Didn't Chavez wave his hands in front of his face and complain about the odor of sulfur?

[Double T]

7. Larga vida a Chavez..............

the world is watching.

[Kagemusha]

10. This is lazy writing but that's nothing new re: designated clowns

Chavez is a designated clown, so "a few people say that he has given the order to kill me" is pumped up as a claim by Chavez rather than the unverified speculation of unnamed persons.

[NaturalHigh]

12. Okay, Hugo...

Congratulations, you got your name in the papers again.

[lumpy]

18. It is smart on Chavez' part to let his thoughts

be known. If he is 'offed', where will fingers be pointing?

[Kingshakabobo]

15. I hear he had to have a sit-down with Babs where she gave the OK...

.....to clip Chavez.

[whistle]

25. Chavez speech on "Capitalism Is Savagery"...

...at 2005 World Social Forum, April 10th:

<snip>
Friends and Enemies.
I have been a Maoist since I entered military school, I read Che Guevara, I read Bolivar and his speeches and letters, becoming a Bolivarian Maoist, a mixture of all that.
Mao says that it is imperative, for every revolutionary, to determine very clearly who are your friends and who are your enemies.
In Latin America this is particularly important.

<.....>
The whip of counter-revolution.
Trotsky said that every revolution needs the whip of a counterrevolution, and the counterrevolution whipped us hard, with economic, media and social sabotage, terrorism, bombs, violence, blood and death, coup d'etat, institutional manipulation, international pressure, they tried to convert Venezuela into a subservient country, trying to install a transnational power above our laws, our institutions and our constitution. But the Venezuelan people demonstrated to the oligarchy that they will never surrender.
We resisted, we defended ourselves, and then went on the counteroffensive. As a result in 2003, for the first time, Venezuela recuperated its oil company, which had always been in the hands of the Venezuelan oligarchy and the North American Empire.

<.....>
Capitalism is savagery.
Before, education was privatized. That's the neo-liberal, imperialist plan, health systems were privatized, that cannot be, it's a fundamental human right. Health, education, water, energy, public services, that cannot be given to the voracity of private capital, that denies those rights to the people, that's the road to savagery, capitalism is savagery.
Every day I'm more convinced, less capitalism and more socialism.
We need to transcend capitalism, but capitalism cannot be transcended from within. Capitalism needs to be transcended via socialism, with equality and justice, that's the path to transcend the capitalist power.
I'm also convinced that it's possible to do it in democracy but watch it, what type of democracy not the one Mr. Superman wants to impose.
<more>

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/South_America/CapitalismSavagery_Chavez.html

[Imajika]

31. Bingo...

Chavez is a marxist. I am not a marxist. I don't believe capitalism is evil. Hate to break it to people, but the Democratic Party is not anti-capitalist - nor will it ever be.

Most American Democrats would want NOTHING to do with the likes of Castro of Chavez. If the American public ever believed that Democrats supported a marxist economic platform, they'd abandon it wholesale. There is a reason Pelosi and Rangel came out so strongly against Chavez's statements.

I guess the answer to my question as to why a clown like Chavez is a hero here for so many is pretty obvious. This forum, as good as it can be, is on the extreme left of American political thought. Lots of people here evidently believe communism is still a good idea - despite the fact that as an economic system it never, ever works anywhere.

Regulated capitalism is the most successful model. Marxism is not. Any leader tells me he/she is a maoist, and I will tell you he/she will impliment an economic system that is doomed to inefficiency and failure and will require totalitarian methods to keep in place.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lumpy]

49. Deregulated capitalism is the disease that is

afflicting the US economic body. In-place corporate regulation has decreased since the Reagan administration practically to the point of non-existence. In turn this has affected workplace safety, banking infractions, health/medical community concerns, agriculture, manufacturing outsourcing, enviromental concerns, joblessness, you name it... A well regulated corporate community works for capitalism and for the general health of the economic and social community.

[Amonester]

50. So a totally corrupt government where paid lobbyists from...

billionaire corporations which get no bid contracts and barely have to show any results (re: puke contractors playing football with paper bags filled with $100 bills; Katrina; et cetera, ad nauseum...) while the taxpayers get screwed over 'n over is not a communist system for the already so filthy rich that they can't stop searching for tax-heavens to hide their obscene abundance... works?

For who?

[whistle]

56. To each their own, this is after all a free country....as for failing and

...inefficient economic systems, free market laissez-faire capitalism had a 200 year track record of wars, destruction, imperialistic expansionism, exploitation, crashes and failure. If it were not for political corruption, concentrated economic power, religious ignorance fed to the masses, censorship, revisionist history and out-right denial, the free market system would have died on the ash heap of economic fantasies many decades ago.

The regulated capitalism which Richard Nixon, Henry Kissinger, George Shultz, Herbert Stein and indirectly by the monetary policy advocacies of Milton Freedman, forced onto the U.S. using the Vietnam war shortages and imbalances at the end of Nixon's first term as president <1971>, triggered the hyper-inflation rates which reached double digit levels as Ford left office. Carter continued with a bastardization of the beginning policies of unregulated industries like dropping price controls in the airlines industry.

FDR had the right idea with the mixed economic concepts of the New Deal. This was based on the Keynesian Economic model with a balanced mix of socialized and free capital components in the U.S. In fact, so strong were the truths of that economic and political model, it took the republicans and neoconservative fascists almost seventy years to plunder and bankrupt the system and all of its workings.

In the last five years, the American economy under George Bush has been socialism for the wealthy and corporate imperial capitalism filled with lies, deceptions and manipulations, which can only be compared to the anglo-dutch mercantile model of the late 17th and 18th centuries. This system in less than a decade will morph itself into world fascism.

In my humble opinion, a good dose of Marxism is what is precisely needed in the world.

As for laissez-faire capitalism, take a group of believer and begin a colony on Mars and try to set such a system as that up there. Who knows, some enterprising capitalist tired of breathing oxygen rocketed in from earth, might just find a way to economically extract the bound up oxygen in the ferrous oxide soil of the Martian landscape and become fabulously wealthy. Then the rest of the colonists and the politicians will tax the shit out of the son-of-a-bitch and redistributed his wealth as entitlements.

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Puglover]

87. Judi Lynn

thanks very much for posting this. The crickets are singing quite loudly right about now. I have been waiting for the "moderate" to come up with something snappy in rebuttal.

[Judi Lynn]

104. Thank you, puglover. I just noticed someone had my post removed,

so I'm posting the same information here all over again, with my comments about the poster deleted:

Hugo Chavez on Marxism
Hugo Chavez | 17.08.2004 07:09 | Venezuela

'I don't believe in the dogmatic postulates of Marxist revolution. I don't
accept that we are living in a period of proletarian revolutions. All that
must be revised. Reality is telling us that every day. Are we aiming in
Venezuela today for the abolition of private property or a classless
society? I don't think so. But if I'm told that because of that reality
you can't do anything to help the poor, the people who have made this
country rich through their labour and never forget that some of it was
slave labour, then I say 'We part company'. I will never accept that there
can be no redistribution of wealth in society. Our upper classes don't
even like paying taxes. That's one reason they hate me. We said 'You must
pay your taxes'. I believe it's better to die in battle, rather than hold
aloft a very revolutionary and very pure banner, and do nothing ... That
position often strikes me as very convenient, a good excuse ... Try and
make your revolution, go into combat, advance a little, even if it's only
a millimetre, in the right direction, instead of dreaming about utopias.'
(snip)

https://www4.indymedia.org.uk/en/2004/08/296440.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Seeing the truth gets out, one goddamned way or another, is fairly important.

[katinmn]

60. The Commie scare is so 50s. Venezuela is a multi-party republic

with a democratically elected president and unicameral national assembly.

Those who prefer authoritarian capitalistic rule would not appreciate Chavez' efforts to bring people out of poverty and provide health care to ALL by nationalizing big oil and redistributing the wealth.

[SenorSanchez]

108. Chavez will broke when his oil production peaks

which could be very soon. Nationalizing oil companies discourages foreign investment in new oil production, which will minimize oil profits for that country. No company wants to work with a government controlled company.

[0007]

92. You sound like one of those fat cats that is making a killing off

the sheeple.

[Megahurtz]

101. The only kind of person that raves about Capitalism

IS one who IS making a killing off the sheeple.

This guy must be rolling in $$$dough$$$!

Oh hey! As long as you're rich, that's all that matters!
Profits before people! Good for you!!! :sarcasm:

[mhatrw]

96. Is there still capitalism is Venezuela?

Yes or no.

[ima_sinnic]

98. I dismiss you as a greed-head

pure and simple.
when someone starts spouting their BULLS**T about how "only capitalism can work," I'm outa there.
oh, and by the way, don't bother telling, say, Saturn factory workers that "socialism doesn't work," or farmers in the Midwest who have gotten together to run a canning factory. Socialism = workers owning the means of production. We could use a lot more of that around here. Isn't Sweden mostly socialist? gee, what a "failure" that country is.
Meanwhile, in this "capitalist paradise" of the USA we see where greed leads--never mind your BS about "regulated"--greedy capitalists will thwart "regulation" every chance they get, which is what is happening now--WE are the ones "requiring totalitarian methods to keep in place" because capitalists WANT IT ALL, they will rape the land with no concern for future generations, they will gouge the poor with no conscience, they will charge usurious interest, as much as they can get away with and then whine about their "hard-earned money." They are short-sighted and selfish. They will produce junk that nobody needs, then convince people that they need it, wasting precious resources on crap that goes obsolete and is drowning us in landfills. Take capitalism and stick it where the sun don't shine, greedy. And your crap about Chavez doesn't really do it for me, either.

[Megahurtz]

102. Socialism is Better.

Capitalism sucks!:argh:

[hogwyld]

117. I would love for the U.S. to be a socialistic society

I'm fed up with the unsateable hunger of unleashed capitalism. Only true socialism can save this country.

[Megahurtz]

121. I would too.

Unleashed Capitalism is so opressing and depressing and will
only be the demise of this Country if it continues in the way that it's going.
Socialism would definitely save this Country!
I would be so happy if this Country became a Socialistic Country!
That would give people hope!
If only we had a really strong Democratic leader. That's what we are presently lacking.

[Minstrel Boy]

26. Direct quote from the article: "They will NOT kill me"

So how the hell is the headline justified?

[whistle]

27. Another Hugo Chávez speech given at the opening of XII G-15 Summit

....as Hugo Chavez spoke words of truth to power and lies.


<snip>
Speech by President Hugo Chávez, at the opening of XII G-15 Summit
Monday, Mar 01, 2004
By: Hugo Chavez

<.....>
Welcome to this land washed by the waters of the Atlantic Ocean and the Caribbean Sea, crossed by the magnificent Orinoco River. A land crowned by the perpetual snow of the Andean mountains....!

A land overwhelmed by the never-ending magic of the Amazon forest and its millenary chants...!

Welcome to Venezuela, the land where a patriotic people has taken over again the banners of Simon Bolivar, its Libertador, whose name is well known beyond these frontiers!
<.....>
Globalization has not brought the so-called interdependence, but an increase in dependency. Instead of wealth globalization, there is poverty wide spreading. Development has not become general, or been shared. To the contrary, the abysm between North and South is now so huge, that the unsustainability of the current economic order and the blindness of the people who try to justify continuing to enjoy opulence and waste, are evident.

The face of this world economic order of globalization with a neo-liberal sign is not only Internet, virtual reality or the exploration of the space.

This face can also be seen, and with a greater dramatic character in the countries of the South, in the 790 millions of people who are starving, 800 millions of illiterate adults, 654 millions of human beings who live today in the south and who will not grow older than 40 years of age. This is the harsh and hard face of the work economic order dominated by the Neoliberalism and seen every year in the south, the death of over 11 millions of boys and girls below 5 years of age caused by illnesses that are practically always preventable and curable and who die at the appalling rate of over 30 thousand every day, 21 every minute, 10 each 30 seconds. In the South, the proportion of children suffering of malnutrition reaches up to 50% in quite a few countries, while according to the FAO, a child who lives in the First World will consume throughout his or her life, the equivalent to what 50 children consume in an underdeveloped country.
<.....>
Dear friends:

I saw with my own eyes, a day like today but exactly 15 years ago, the 27 of February 1989, when an intense day of protest broke out on the streets of Caracas against the neo-liberal package of the International Monetary Fund and ended in a real massacre known as “The Caracazo”.

The neo-liberal model promised Latin Americans greater economic growth, but during the neo-liberal years growth has not even reached half the growth achieved in the 1945-1975 period with different politics.

The model recommended the most strict financial liberalization and exchange freedom to achieve a greater influx of foreign capitals and greater stability. But in neo-liberal years the financial crises have been more intense and frequent than ever before, the external regional debts non-existent at the end of the Second World War amounts today to 750 billion dollars, the per capita highest debt in the world and in several countries is equal to more than half the GDP. Only between 1990 and the year 2002, Latin America made external debt payments amounting to 1 trillion 528 billions of dollars, which duplicates the amount of the current debt and represented an annual average payment of 118 billions. That is, we pay the debt every 6.3 years, but this evil burden continues to be there, unchanging and inextinguishable.

¡¡It is a never-ending debt!!
<.....>

Speech by President Hugo Chávez, at the opening of XII G-15 Summit
Monday, Mar 01, 2004
By: Hugo Chavez

HIS EXCELLENCY NÉSTOR KIRCHNER, PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF ARGENTINA.

HIS EXCELLENCY LUIS INACIO LULA DA SILVA, PRESIDENT OF THE FEDERATIVE REPUBLIC OF BRAZIL

HIS EXCELLENCY SEYED MOHAMMED KHATAMI, PRESIDENT OF THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF IRAN.

HIS EXCELLENCY PÉRCIVAL JAMES PATTERSON, PRIME MINISTER OF JAMAICA.

HIS EXCELLENCY RÓBERT GABRIEL MUGÁBE, PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF ZIMBABWE.

HIS EXCELLENCY AMBASSADOR NASSIR ABDULAZIZ AL_NASSER, PRESIDENT OF THE GROUP OF 77.

DISTINGUISHED HEADS OF THE DELEGATIONS AND HIGH OFFICERS OF ALGERIA, COLOMBIA, CHILE, EGYPT, INDIA, INDONESIA, KENYA, MALAYSIA, MEXICO, NIGERIA, PERU, SENEGAL AND SRI LANKA.

THEIR EXCELLENCIES, FOREIGN AFFAIRS MINISTERS OF THE GROUP OF 15.

HIS EXCELLENCY RÚBENS RICÚPERO, SECRETARY GENERAL TO THE UNITED NATIONS CONFERENCE ON TRADE AND DEVELOPMENT (UNCTAD).

THEIR EXCELLENCIES THE HEADS OF DIPLOMATIC MISSIONS AND HONORABLE REPRESENTATIVES OF INTERNATIONAL AGENCIES CREDITED BEFORE THE VENEZUELAN GOVERNMENT.

DISTINGUISHED JOURNALISTS, PHOTOGRAPHERS AND CAMERAMEN.

FELLOW VENEZUELANS.... LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

Welcome to this land washed by the waters of the Atlantic Ocean and the Caribbean Sea, crossed by the magnificent Orinoco River. A land crowned by the perpetual snow of the Andean mountains....!

A land overwhelmed by the never-ending magic of the Amazon forest and its millenary chants...!

Welcome to Venezuela, the land where a patriotic people has taken over again the banners of Simon Bolivar, its Libertador, whose name is well known beyond these frontiers!

As Pablo Neruda said in his “Chant to Bolivar”:

Our Father thou art in Heaven,
in water, in air
in all our silent and broad latitude
everything bears your name, Father in our dwelling:
your name raises sweetness in sugar cane
Bolivar tin has a Bolivar gleam
the Bolívar bird flies over the Bolivar volcano
the potato, the saltpeter, the special shadows,
the brooks, the phosphorous stone veins
everything comes from your extinguished life
your legacy was rivers, plains, bell towers
your legacy is our daily bread, oh Father.

Yes, ladies and gentlemen: Bolivar, another “Quixote but not mad” (as Napoleon Bonaparte had already called Francisco de Miranda, the universal man from Caracas), who on this very same land of South America tried to unite the Rising Republics in a single, strong and free Republic.

In his letter to Jamaica in 1815, Bolivar said talking about the Panama isthmus and his idea of convening there a Amphictyonic Congress:

“I wish one day we would have the opportunity to install there an august congress with the representatives of the Republics, Kingdoms and Empires to debate and discuss the highest interests of Peace and War with the countries of the other three parts of the world.”

Bolivar reveals himself as an anti-imperialist leader, in the same historic perspective that 140 years after that insightful letter at Kingston materialized in the Bandung Conference in April 1955. Inspired by Nerhu, Tito y Nasser, a group of important leaders gathered at this conference to face great challenges and expressed their wish of not being involved in the East-West conflict and rather work together toward national development. This was the first key milestone: the first Afro-Asian conference, the immediate precedent of the Non-Aligned Countries that gathered 29 Heads of State and from which the “Conscience of the South” was born.

Two events of great political significance occurred in the 60’s: the creation of the Non-Aligned Movement in Belgrade in 1961 and the Group of the 77 in 1964: Two milestones and a clear historic trend: the need of the self-awareness of the South and of acting together in a world reality characterized by imbalance and unequal exchange.

In the 70’s a proposal, arising from the IV Summit of Heads of State of the Non-Aligned Countries in Algiers in 1973, becomes important: the need to create a new international economic order. In 1974 the UN Assembly ratified this proposal, which maintains full effectiveness, but ended up becoming a mere historical reference.

Two events that were very important for the struggles in the South occurred during the 80’s: the creation of the Commission of the South in Kuala Lumpur in 1987 under the leadership of Julius Nyerere, the unforgettable fighter of Tanzania and the world.

Two years later, in September 1989, the Group of the 15 is born within the framework of the meeting of the Non-Aligned Countries, with the purpose of strengthening the South-South cooperation.

In 1990, the South-Commission submitted its strategic proposal: “A Challenge for the South”. And later on... later on came the Flood with the fall of the Berlin Wall and the implosion of the Soviet Union; unipolarity appears and the “happy 90’s” arrived, as Joseph Stiglitz said.

All those struggles, ideas and proposals sunk in the Neo-liberal Flood and the world began to witness the so-called “end of History” and the triumphant chant of the Neo-liberal Globalization, which today, besides an objective reality, is a weapon of manipulation intended to force us to passiveness faced to an Economic World Order that excludes our South countries and condemns them to the never-ending role of producers of wealth and recipients of leftovers.

Never before had the world such a tremendous scientific-technical potential, such a capacity to generate wealth and well-being. Authentic technological wonders that have made any place in the world to be always close with regard to distances and communications and have not been capable of bringing well-being for everybody, but only for a meager 15% living in the countries of the North.

Globalization has not brought the so-called interdependence, but an increase in dependency. Instead of wealth globalization, there is poverty wide spreading. Development has not become general, or been shared. To the contrary, the abysm between North and South is now so huge, that the unsustainability of the current economic order and the blindness of the people who try to justify continuing to enjoy opulence and waste, are evident.

The face of this world economic order of globalization with a neo-liberal sign is not only Internet, virtual reality or the exploration of the space.

This face can also be seen, and with a greater dramatic character in the countries of the South, in the 790 millions of people who are starving, 800 millions of illiterate adults, 654 millions of human beings who live today in the south and who will not grow older than 40 years of age. This is the harsh and hard face of the work economic order dominated by the Neoliberalism and seen every year in the south, the death of over 11 millions of boys and girls below 5 years of age caused by illnesses that are practically always preventable and curable and who die at the appalling rate of over 30 thousand every day, 21 every minute, 10 each 30 seconds. In the South, the proportion of children suffering of malnutrition reaches up to 50% in quite a few countries, while according to the FAO, a child who lives in the First World will consume throughout his or her life, the equivalent to what 50 children consume in an underdeveloped country.

The great possibilities that a globalization of solidarity and true cooperation could bring to all people in the world through the scientific-technical wonders, has been reduced by the neo-liberal model to this grotesque caricature full of exploitation and social injustice.

Our countries of the South were repeated a thousand times that the sole and true “science” capable of ensuring development and well-being for everybody, without exception, was synthesized in leaving the markets operate without regulation, privatizing everything and creating the conditions for transnational capital investment, and banning the State from intervening the economy.

Almost the magic and wonderful philosopher’s stone!!

Neoliberal thought and politics were created in the North to serve their interests, but it should be highlighted that they have never been truly applied there, but they have been spread throughout the South in the past two decades and reached the disastrous category of a single thought.

Through the application of the sole thought, the world economy as a whole grew less than in the three decades between 1945 and 1975, when the Keynesian theories promoting market regulation through State intervention were applied. The gap separating the North and the South continued to grow, not only with regard to economic indicators, but also in he strategic sector of access to knowledge, from which the fundamental possibility of integral development in our times arises.

The countries of the North with 15% of the world population count with over 85% of Internet users and control 97% of the patents. These countries have an average of over 10 years of schooling, while in the countries of the South schooling hardly reaches 3.7 years and in many countries is even lower.

The tragedy of underdevelopment and poverty in Africa, which historic roots lay in colonialism and the slavery of millions of its children, is now reinforced by the neoliberalism from the North. In this region, the rate of infant mortality in children under 1 year of age is 107 per each thousand children born alive, while in the develop countries this rate is 6 per each thousand children born alive; also, life expectancy is 48 years, thirty years less than in countries of the North.

In Asia, economic growth in some countries has been remarkable, but the region, as a whole, still presents a delay with regard to the North in basic economic and social development aspects.

We are, dear friends, in Latin America, the favorite scenario of the neo-liberal model in the past decades. Here, neoliberalism reached the status of a dogma and was applied with greatest severity.

Its catastrophic results can be easily seen and are the explanation for the growing and uncontrollable social protest that the poor people and the excluded people of Latin America have been expressing, every day more vigorously, for some years now, claiming their right to life, to education, to health, to culture, to a decent living as human beings.

Dear friends:

I saw with my own eyes, a day like today but exactly 15 years ago, the 27 of February 1989, when an intense day of protest broke out on the streets of Caracas against the neo-liberal package of the International Monetary Fund and ended in a real massacre known as “The Caracazo”.

The neo-liberal model promised Latin Americans greater economic growth, but during the neo-liberal years growth has not even reached half the growth achieved in the 1945-1975 period with different politics.

The model recommended the most strict financial liberalization and exchange freedom to achieve a greater influx of foreign capitals and greater stability. But in neo-liberal years the financial crises have been more intense and frequent than ever before, the external regional debts non-existent at the end of the Second World War amounts today to 750 billion dollars, the per capita highest debt in the world and in several countries is equal to more than half the GDP. Only between 1990 and the year 2002, Latin America made external debt payments amounting to 1 trillion 528 billions of dollars, which duplicates the amount of the current debt and represented an annual average payment of 118 billions. That is, we pay the debt every 6.3 years, but this evil burden continues to be there, unchanging and inextinguishable.

¡¡It is a never-ending debt!!
<.....>
I want to tell you – and this is a true and verifiable data­ – that each cow grazing in the European Union receives in its four stomachs 2.20 dollars a day in subsidies, thus having a better situation than 2.5 billion poor people in the South who hardly survive with an income less than 2 dollars a day.

With the FTAA, the government of the United States wants us to reach a zero tariff situation in their benefit and wants us to give away our markets, our oil, our water resources and biodiversity, in addition to our sovereignty, whereas walls of subsidies for agriculture keep access closed to the market of that country. It is a peculiar way of relieving the huge commercial deficit of the United States, to do exactly the contrary to what they present as a sacred principle in economic policy.

<more>
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/docs.php?dno=1011

[earth mom]

30. Stay safe Hugo!

Because I wouldn't doubt that * & his thugs want you gone! :scared:

[Stargazer99]

33. Any body that thinks Bush would not order the death of Chavez

must have too many dollar bills covering their eyes to see what is common sense. Chavez is right and the powerful in this country are scared as hell so they indoctrinate the cannon fodder with scare tactics. This country ought to be enraged that this administration took away the documents and held the offical from Chavez's country. That crass threat ought to enlighten even the stupid con.

[Karenina]

71. I recall a quote from Babs

"Criticize my children and you're DEAD." Anyone else remember?

[0007]

93. Excellent ! I remember clearly........ but Babs ain't a commie

I think junior has his WH staff writing on this thread.

[durtee librul]

95. No, she's better known as

Fright white momma. What buffoons her and her kids are.....I think they not only swam on the shallow end of the gene pool, but used what was left in the drain.

[madrchsod]

32. chavez a clown?

i`d say he`s closer to a populist. a lot of what he says can also be found in many populist programs and speeches during the 1900`s. my grandfather gave a populist speech in iowa in the 1920`s and chavez speeches are very similiar, in fact just change a few words and dates you wouldn`t be able to tell the difference. chavez is right ,bush wants him gone.yet as usual, bush has screwed that up because the chinese have cut the deals with chavez and the usa is odd man out.

[Judi Lynn]

34. Quite the heritage, madrchsod! It would be wonderful knowing someone

like that from the U.S.

I hope his hopes for his country will be realized someday. God knows we've tried everything other than what's truly right already.

It takes courage to walk against the wind, and it's beautiful to see it when it happens.

[Auntie Bush]

35. Did Chevez tell us any thing we didn't know?

I think not!

[Show_Me _The_Truth]

37. WOOHHH WOHHH WOhh WOH WOH

All the Chavez bluster is starting to sound to me like the adults did on Charlie Brown.

Fitting because he is nothing more than a cartoon that people like because he criticizes Bush.

[truthisfreedom]

40. this guy really likes to be in the news, huh?

and the US media eats it up.

[NaturalHigh]

42. You got it.

The way reporters follow him reminds me of a covey of quail bee-bopping mindlessly through the field.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[951-Riverside]

44. Yeah damn the Liberal media

We're building schools in Iraq but does the left wing, hate mongering media report that? NO

All they do is under report deaths, twist facts and spread military propaganda.

By Golly it makes my conservative blood boyle.

:sarcasm:

[LoZoccolo]

53. It's like he's trying to outdo Bush* in Bushiness.

Bush* lied about another country preparing to attack us (Iraq), and Chavez has been doing the same (USA). Maybe too many people saw the similarity and now he has to make up something about us attacking him to keep the terra alert going in Venezuela.

[katinmn]

61. Well, maybe the US backed coup of his government

made him a little paranoid, ya think?

[PeaceProgProsp]

111. Yeah, they're really exploiting the terror alert as an excuse

to educate, keep healthy, and build infrastructure for the poor in . FDR would be shocked.

[HappySavage]

114. Indeed

Bush and Chavez have a lot of the same attitudes:

They never want to take responsibility for anything.
They always deny the obvious.
They always blame everything on someone else.
They will do something only if they can exploit it for their own political advantage.
They always state the obvious (this is how he fooled a lot of us back in '98).

[1932]

126. What in the world are you basing those claims on?

[lumpy]

54. Chavez' words might echo the thoughts of

many US Americans; those who realize that capitalism unfettered through corporate deregulation, global warmongering, political corruption, the onslaught against social programs and economic instability is counter productive to a vibrant and healthy U.S of A.

[tanyev]

58. Sounds a bit melodramatic, but GWB certainly is a vindictive SOB.

[geek tragedy]

64. Hugo Chavez: Attention whore. eom

[Puglover]

88. I'd love to see a President or leader of ANY country

who is NOT an "attention whore". Silly.

[aquart]

65. If he can. Yes.

Is there some doubt about that? And our press will cheer.

[Thickasabrick]

72. I love this guy! n/t

[killbotfactory]

73. Chavez was almost assassinated during the coup in 2002

Which the US supported.

But nevermind that, or any of the other Latin American leaders we have killed, or tried to kill.

Or even that he is only saying people have warned him Bush wants him dead.

Chavez is a loon. :eyes:

[superconnected]

75. Bush is a mass murderer. I can see the worry.

[meisje]

78. Bat Shit Insane!

[Matilda]

80. No, a very smart man.

If Chavez is toppled by a coup, or assassinated, the world will point the finger at Bush. And it
will be very difficult for the US to install their own puppet to take his place, because the
Chavez supporters won't stand for it. I think Chavez is making it very difficult for Bush to
attempt another coup.

Even if Chavez were to die suddenly of natural causes, Bush will get the blame.

I think Chavez is three steps ahead of Bush all the way.

[pretzel4gore]

89. Chavez has got bush by the nuts ....

if anything bad happens to President Chavez, then the bushogs will be blamed! - making it very important to PREVENT anything bad happening to our Hugo....lol! In fact, maybe Hugo could order up some american spinach, for a nice spinach snack! imagine the horror at the crookery on pennsylvania avenue!

[leesa]

81. How did a filthy little family like the Bushes get to be in charge of the

world? They are so utterly crude!

[ZENmud]

86. What Chavez saw

My own cartoon from http://crystelZENmud.blogspot.com

At post "Hope you catch my name..."

:-)

ZENmud

[pretzel4gore]

90. wow, quite the blog ZENmud!

also, welcome to DU
:)
;)

[ZENmud]

106. RE: wow, quite the blog ZENmud!

(blushing)

Thanks... I 'lob' these across the ocean while y'all are sleeping... usually!

:-)

[Generator]

97. Join the club, buddy-we all feel that way

[Megahurtz]

103. For Sure! n/t

[ima_sinnic]

99. Hugo, darlin, you won't be the first or the last one he does

--once again HC says what 99.99999% of the rest of the world is thinking but is too "polite" to say out loud.

[patcox2]

109. He's safe; Bush's first priority is Will Pitt and his followers.

Hell, Bush went to all the trouble of suspending habeous corpus just so he can start "disapearing" DUers who follow Pitt, you know thats his first priority.

Chavez can relax; Bush has no time to go after world leaders and foes, not when there are people saying nasty things about him on DU.

[HappySavage]

113. Pffffft....

Now the threat of "magnicide" comes from abroad. I've lost track of how many "plots" to kill him he's uncovered in Venezuela, yet he has to provide one shred of evidence about any of them.

Then again I take it no one here has actually watched "Alo, Presidente".

[Judi Lynn]

119. You'd be helping your credibility if you actually told the truth.

It's stupid making declarations like that without benefit of reality.

DU'ers read and discussed already the fact that Colombia's President Uribe ALREADY admditted he had personal knowledge himself of one of these attempts.

Here's a reference to it I just posted in another thread in the last coupla days here:

~snip~
Ex Venezuelan militaries had planned to overthrow President Hugo Chavez from Colombian territory revealed Colombian President Alvaro Uribe. Uribe confirmed that ex Venezuelan military officials met with Colombian military counterparts in a government building in Bogota.

Uribe made these comments during a joint press conference with Chavez after the meeting held in the northern Colombian city of Santa Marta to commemorate the death of Bolivar 175 years ago “Instead of making excuses and instead of deception, I am assuming my responsibility before President Chavez”, Uribe said.

He explained that last November during the last bilateral meeting in Venezuela, Chavez handed him a series of documents concerning presumed conspiracies taking place on Colombian soil, which were subsequently examined by the authorities in Bogota.

Intelligence at work

Chavez and Uribe celebrated the 175th Anniversary of Simon Bolivar’s death
The ex Venezuelan military officials held their meeting in a building where some Colombian military officials live.
“After carrying out intelligence work everyone has been advised that the Colombian government will not allow anyone to conspire against a democratic government and even less so against a brother country,” stated Uribe.

He added that, “a country like Colombia affected by terrorism cannot allow its territory to be used against the democracies of our peoples. No to terrorism in Venezuela and no to terrorism against Colombia.”

President Uribe did not reveal the names of the Venezuelan military officials who are presumably plotting against Chavez.
(snip/...)

http://www.venezuelasolidarity.org.uk/ven/web/articles/uribe_admits_assan_attempt.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We've ALSO discussed the fact that the US ambassador, Charles Shapiro told the Venezuelan Vice President Rangel PERSONALLY he knew of a different plan to assassinate Hugo Chavez, to relay to Hugo Chavez. It was written and well discussed long ago.

Don't tell people who actually READ the news things we know are wholly contrary to the truth.

[Judi Lynn]

122. More of the information US ambassador Charles Shapiro gave on a plot to

kill the Venezuelan President:

Venezuela's accusations against Washington were given added credibility when Venezuelan Vice-President Jose Rangel told the media that former US ambassador to Venezuela Charles Shapiro had informed him of a potential plot to kill Chavez.

According to a March 9 Vheadline report, current US ambassador Brownfield confirmed that Shapiro had informed the Venezuelan government that US officials had information of a potential assassination attempt. Brownfield denied that the US government was party to the plot.
(snip)

http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2005/619/619p17.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Former US ambassador warned about plot to kill Chavez

Venezuelan Vice President Jose Vicente Rangel revealed in an interview published Sunday in a Peruvian newspaper that former U.S. Ambassador to Venezuela Charles Shapiro warned him of a possible plot to kill President Hugo Chavez.

Vice Pte. Rangel
"Former (U.S.) Ambassador Charles Shapiro told me that he had information about a possible attempt against President Chavez," Rangel told Peruvian daily El Comercio. However according to Mr. Rangel, the former U.S. ambassador "did not provide more details" about the possible attack but pointed out that "having such information, for legal reasons the United States was forced to tell us".
"But you know that's why he was later recalled" by President George W. Bush's administration, Rangel added.
(snip/...)

http://www.falkland-malvinas.com/Detalle.asp?NUM=5213

[stepnw1f]

115. Smells Like a Toilet in Here

I knew I shouldn't have taken that right turn. Exiting, stage LEFT.

[bamacrat]

116. We did it to Che. Wouldnt doubt it to happen again.

[hogwyld]

118. What I wouldn't give

To trade * for Chavez!

[Jcrowley]

123. Chavez Is Crazy

"The US is a peaceful people"

I do wish Chavez would be more precise in this regard and call the "hit" out as one that is ordained by the US Corporate Hegemonists and we all know Bush is only their "psychophant." It is assured that there is a crew of "jackals" that is waiting for the right moment and following Chavez' daily movements. You can also be certain that the watchers are being watched.

U.S. GOVERNMENT ASSASSINATION PLOTS

The U.S. bombing of Iraq, June 26, 1993, in retaliation for an alleged Iraqi plot to assassinate former president George Bush, "was essential," said President Clinton, "to send a message to those who engage in state-sponsored terrorism ... and to affirm the expectation of civilized behavior among nations." *

Following is a list of prominent foreign individuals whose assassination (or planning for same) the United States has been involved in since the end of the Second World War. The list does not include several assassinations in various parts of the world carried out by anti-Castro Cubans employed by the CIA and headquartered in the United States.

1949 - Kim Koo, Korean opposition leader

1950s - CIA/Neo-Nazi hit list of more than 200 political figures in West Germany
to be "put out of the way" in the event of a Soviet invasion

1950s - Chou En-lai, Prime minister of China, several attempts on his life

1950s, 1962 - Sukarno, President of Indonesia

1951 - Kim Il Sung, Premier of North Korea

1953 - Mohammed Mossadegh, Prime Minister of Iran

1950s (mid) - Claro M. Recto, Philippines opposition leader

1955 - Jawaharlal Nehru, Prime Minister of India

1957 - Gamal Abdul Nasser, President of Egypt

1959, 1963, 1969 - Norodom Sihanouk, leader of Cambodia

1960 - Brig. Gen. Abdul Karim Kassem, leader of Iraq

1950s-70s - José Figueres, President of Costa Rica, two attempts on his life

1961 - Francois "Papa Doc" Duvalier, leader of Haiti

1961 - Patrice Lumumba, Prime Minister of the Congo (Zaire)

1961 - Gen. Rafael Trujillo, leader of Dominican Republic

1963 - Ngo Dinh Diem, President of South Vietnam

1960s-70s - Fidel Castro, President of Cuba, many attempts on his life

1960s - Raúl Castro, high official in government of Cuba

1965 - Francisco Caamaño, Dominican Republic opposition leader

1965-6 - Charles de Gaulle, President of France

1967 - Che Guevara, Cuban leader

1970 - Salvador Allende, President of Chile

1970 - Gen. Rene Schneider, Commander-in-Chief of Army, Chile

1970s, 1981 - General Omar Torrijos, leader of Panama

1972 - General Manuel Noriega, Chief of Panama Intelligence

1975 - Mobutu Sese Seko, President of Zaire

1976 - Michael Manley, Prime Minister of Jamaica

1980-1986 - Muammar Qaddafi, leader of Libya, several plots and attempts upon his life

1982 - Ayatollah Khomeini, leader of Iran

1983 - Gen. Ahmed Dlimi, Moroccan Army commander

1983 - Miguel d'Escoto, Foreign Minister of Nicaragua

1984 - The nine comandantes of the Sandinista National Directorate

1985 - Sheikh Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah, Lebanese Shiite leader (80 people killed in the attempt)

1991 - Saddam Hussein, leader of Iraq

1993 - Mohamed Farah Aideed, prominent clan leader of Somalia

1998, 2001-2 - Osama bin Laden, leading Islamic militant

1999 - Slobodan Milosevic, President of Yugoslavia

2002 - Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, Afghan Islamic leader and warlord

2003 - Saddam Hussein and his two sons

http://members.aol.com/bblum6/assass.htm

[stepnw1f]

125. Not If We Impeach da Bastad!

:kick: