Cat Stevens criticizes pope over Islam comments

[rsmith6621]

LONDON, England (AFP) - Yusuf Islam, the British singer known as Cat Stevens before his conversion to Islam, added to the criticism of Pope Benedict XVI's recent remarks about the religion.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060924/wl_uk_afp/britainvaticanfaith_060924200913

[hlthe2b]

1. Well, Ratzinger certainly hasn't boarded the "Peace Train"

I'll say that...

Those who still wish to use Stevens/Yusef Islam's widely reported (and widely misinterpreted) statements against him, need to be consistent on this one.... If the Pope was misunderstood, then others may have been as well. Just saying...

And, sorry, Ratzinger is no John Paul either...

[geek tragedy]

4. Cat Stevens is a fundie nutjob.

Ratzo isn't the person to preach about tolerance, and neither is Cat Stevens.

There was only one correct answer a person could give regarding the fatwa against Salman Rushdie, and Cat Stevens got it dead wrong. He called for the book to be banned, and stated that Islamic law called for death to be applied against blasphemers.

He's a medievalist.

[Thickasabrick]

7. He merely stated what Islam law was - he was not advocating for

it - big difference. It is also Islamic law to abide by the laws of the country you live in - he said that too.

[Teaser]

9. so then it's just islamic law that's crazy?

nt

[Thickasabrick]

10. Yes, especially if taken out of context - but then the Bible has some

pretty crazy laws too - if you follow it verbatim. Remember this open letter to Dr. Laura?

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law.

I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge
with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual
lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly
states it to be an abomination. ... End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of
God's Law and how to follow them.

1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a
pleasing odour for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbours. They
claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned > in Exodus
21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her
period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I
tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence.

4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and
female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring > > > nations. A
friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but > > > not
Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

5. I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2.
The passage clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated
to kill him myself?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an
abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I
don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if > I have a
defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my
vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair
around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27.
How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me
unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different
crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two
different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse
and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of
getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we
just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people
who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable
expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your adoring fan,

James M. Kauffman, Ed.D. Professor Emeritus Dept. of Curriculum,
Instruction, and Special Education University of Virginia

[Teaser]

35. no argument from me!

:)

[geek tragedy]

16. He wanted for the book to be banned. No mainstream

Christian denomination believes that blasphemy is punishable by death.

Either Cat Stevens is an extremist nutjob outside the mainstream of his own faith, or . . . .

Cat Stevens is not a moderate person, nor a person who shares liberal values:

After confirming that Islamic Law considers Blasphemy without repentance as a capital offence, I stated clearly, “Under the Islamic law, Muslims are bound to keep within the limits of the law of the country in which they live, providing that it does not restrict the freedom to worship and serve God and fulfil their basic religious duties (Fard ‘Ayn). One must not forget the ruling in Islam is also very clear about adultery, stealing and murder, but that doesn’t mean that British Muslims will go about lynching and stoning adulterers, thieves and murders. If we can’t get satisfaction within the present limits of the law, like a ban on this blasphemous book, ‘Satanic Verses’ which insults God and His Prophets – including those Prophets honoured by Christians, Jews as well as Muslims – this does not mean that we should step outside of the law to find redress. No. If Mrs Thatcher and her Government are unwilling to listen to our pleas, if our demonstrations and peaceful lobbying does not work, then perhaps the only alternative is for Muslims to get more involved in the political process of this country. It seems to be the only way left for us.”

http://catstevens.com/articles/00236/index.html

[Malikshah]

19. Thus spake the ....

Whatever! :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

Guess there's no room for discussion.

Please chill and have some dip.

[geek tragedy]

22. So, you agree with him that blasphemy should be outlawed?

Because he's clearly advocating that.

He and his fellow whiny ass titty baby fundies of all denominations can kiss my liberal ass.

[Malikshah]

24. Liberal?? With the ravings read

Hardly.

So sorry. Not going to play the gotcha game.

Just suggesting that some on this planet relax, chill and get off the hobby horses of hatred.

Enjoy the oblivion.

[geek tragedy]

25. You're right. Because I refuse to accomodate Islamic

fundamentalists, I'm not a liberal.

I oppose outlawing blasphemy. Cat Stevens wants to ban blasphemy.

There is only one liberal position there. And it ain't his.

Funny how you NEVER bother to address the subject. You probably should do a better job of picking arguments.

[Malikshah]

26. Nah-- the issue is the language used and the priorities made apparent

Pope made egregious comment during period in which tens of thousands of Muslims have been killed. The Muslim world from stem to stern is inundated with anti-Muslim statements/views. Anti-Muslim attacks in the US are up exponentially.

This is equated with Cat Stevens stupid statments regarding a stupid fatwa a while ago.

Yup-- priorities are spot on.

Part and parcel with what's been read.

Enjoy the oblivion.

[geek tragedy]

27. Cat Stevens is the subject of this thread.

And, it is more than a bit ironic that a guy who actually believes that Islam calls for death to blasphemers is complaining about the Pope associating Islam with violence.

I mean, by all means people should criticize the Pope. But, people like Stevens are fundamentally unsuited to provide a counter-argument.

[Malikshah]

28. Yup-- priorities still wayy out of whack.

Uh, it's crystal clear what the subject of the thread was.

It's also amazingly clear that some still wish to demonize Cat Stevens.

Is it true he still eats babies?

Enjoy the oblivion.

[geek tragedy]

29. It's not demonizing someone to accurately characterize

their opinions and statements.

And it is the subject of this thread.

Or should we just not have threads on these kinds of subjects?

[geek tragedy]

21. Do you favor outlawing blasphemy? Cat Stevens does.

And I quote:

If we can’t get satisfaction within the present limits of the law, like a ban on this blasphemous book, ‘Satanic Verses’ which insults God and His Prophets – including those Prophets honoured by Christians, Jews as well as Muslims – this does not mean that we should step outside of the law to find redress. No. If Mrs Thatcher and her Government are unwilling to listen to our pleas, if our demonstrations and peaceful lobbying does not work, then perhaps the only alternative is for Muslims to get more involved in the political process of this country. It seems to be the only way left for us.”

Just like the rapturists--trying to undermine freedom of religion and speech. Thank god most people--Christian, Jewish, and Islamic--don't share his theocratic views.

FUCK Cat Stevens.

[Bake]

33. Isn't that pretty much the Pope's defense?

Not "his" opinion, just quoting some other guy ...

Bake

[Cozumel]

23. I loved what Cat Stevens used to say...

But Yusef Islam IS NOT Cat Stevens. The "Peace Train" has left the station, and he was left behind. Still to this day, I pull my old Cat Stevens record out and listen to Peace Train. Musically and lyrically, its a great tune. Unfortunately, I don't think he believes in his aforementioned lyrics as much as he does Islams.

[azurnoir]

2. Yusef will most certainly be

misquoted or interpreted by some, but in the case of the Pope one would think he would have known that when building a "consensus" between Christianity and Islam the Crusades are probably not the best place to start. So yes the Pope is quite fallible.

[skiddlybop]

3. So when does the catholic league roll out

the fatwa against Islam (and Islam) ????

[Thickasabrick]

5. Yusuf was raised Catholic. He usually only comments on

condemning violence - caused by whomever. This surprises me somewhat that he would speak out about the pope's comments.

I have a huge amount of respect for Yusuf in light of his charitable work over the years.

[skooooo]

6. Remember the Cat Stevens debates of a few years ago...

...lol, it was pretty stupid. Hope this doesn't start it back up..

[JVS]

31. Good times

[Human Torch]

8. I'll go read the article right after Yusuf BITES ME.

Never liked his music, but it was nice of him to take time out of his busy day to "add to the criticism." Oooh, baby baby it's a wild world...

:evilgrin:

[ShortnFiery]

13. How NATIONALISTIC of those who are quick to judge?

Second to the Fundies of both Christianity and Islam, Nationalistic knee-jerk reactions are sometimes just as scary. :scared:

[geek tragedy]

17. Why is finding Cat Stevens to be a total asshat indicative

of knee-jerk nationalism.

He's a soft-spoken version of Pat Robertson.

[ShortnFiery]

18. It just reminded me of how Pelosi and Rangel went ballistic ...

but you're correct, you just don't like the guy.

Please excuse MY knee-jerk criticism - it wasn't Nationalistic in nature - you are right on that fact. :blush: :hi:

[geek tragedy]

20. Cheers.

:toast: :beer:

[Thickasabrick]

11. That headline is fucked. I don't really call this criticism:

But he added that the pope's comments on Islam showed he was fallible,

"because of the kind of interpretation he had of Islam, he should read Gandhi and find out what he said about Islam," the singer said, adding that the Indian leader had a more peaceful interpretation of the faith.

The pontiff "should have looked elsewhere if he wanted to quote but we respect the Pope and his position -- I do believe he has retracted in a way that statement and that's all to the good.

(Emphasis mine)

[Fenris]

12. Sensationalism.

Needless sensationalism.

[struggle4progress]

14. Article & Yusuf mispresent the doctrine of papal infallibility, which is

not a doctrine that the Pope never makes mistakes or misspeaks, but the much more limited assertion that the Pope will not be incorrect when expounding church dogma as the chief Bishop.

In the case at hand, the Pope seems to have made the common human mistake of insensitivity. in the course of an otherwise interesting discourse on the importance of non-coerced belief, and he has essentially apologized.

Maybe this incident deserves to be forgotten?

[Trajan]

15. As a former Catholic and strict secular humanist and atheist .....

Both Islam and Christianity can fuck off ... and toss in Judaism as well ....

Their speculative claims of perfect knowledge through revelation keeps men ignorant, and leads DIRECTLY to inhumanity against our brother and sister human beings ....

FUCK all of them .... I love my fellow human beings, but THEIR religions suck ....

[JVS]

30. I am outraged! I declare a sentence of death on all purveyors of...

shitty "freedom rock"!

[pitohui]

32. yeah whatever

why do we still give this guy any media attention whatsoever?

for information on islam the pope should read gandhi? why? gandhi was some expert on islam now? cat can't find one actual muslim who wrote anything worth saying on the topic of world peace?

i don't know which of them is less credible, the pope or cat, and i'm not sure i really care except for the amusement value of having a former pop star who screwed up his life giving advice to the pope who is at least the pope and not a has-been

maybe next they should ask madonna to give the pope advice!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

34. Yusuf Islam's great.

I love the guy.